GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Big Bore AirGun Gate => Topic started by: redlined_b16a on December 31, 2019, 01:14:19 PM
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Went to academy today and looked for some .357's that weren't jacketed and found these .38 cals
https://www.hornady.com/bullets/handgun/38-cal-358-158-gr-swc-hp# (https://www.hornady.com/bullets/handgun/38-cal-358-158-gr-swc-hp#)!/
$28 for 300 I'll give them a Shot.
The tips measure .355 and rears widest point are .359
They are tapered and fit the Bulldog mag well.
I shot a 5 shot group leaning against my truck at 40 yards and it was a 1.5" group.
Chrono battery is dead so after I pick up.a battery I will shoot rested.
So far I'm happy with the results.
The internet has these cheaper as well.
More test will follow but I like that these are on the shelf locally.
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50 yards
teathered vs un teathered.
Teathered at 2800 psi 1.239" ctc
Untethered started at 2800 psi 1.668" ctc
So far it rivals all my other ammo except the neilsons
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Nothing wrong with knurled bullets.... If they are working for you, go for it.... a slight velocity change might tighten your groups even more....
Bob
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So far they out shoot the 200 cut of air venturi that cost $40 plus shipping.
Plus they are local.
I'll have to experiment more.
Get some chronograph data.
Might buy the upgraded steel pitbull cocking lever and increase the hammer tension a bit.
Dug one out of the mud and there was zero expansion so I would need to fly them faster.
Hornady has some wad cutters but they look too long for the mag and I can not find any lenth specs.
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Those slugs are probably for pistol reloading might be a little hard for airgun use, curious as to the fps if to slow you could resize to .356 and pick up some fps, but for the price worth experimenting with,and the're already working for you so there is that
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Going to follow this thread. I'm interested to hear what velocity you are shooting them at and future tests.
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I bought a box of those in February and tried them in my Pitbull and in my SuperFLEX and they did adequate but not in any way as good as cast in accuracy (shooting at 100 yards though).
I thought they would be soft lead but was surprised that they didn't expand when fired into a water tank (shooting vertical into a 55 gal open topped drum full of water) at anything less than 800 FPS. [Note: I cover the top of the drum with a sheet of plastic so the water doesn't drench me!]
I think that the HP is simply too small for our lower velocities.
Sent some to Triggertrest and he shot them in his Slayer but didn't get that good of accuracy either.
Shame, I was excited because the price per slug/shot was so reasonable for store bought bullets.
I think that they are too heavy to shoot fast enough in a stock Bulldog or any of the .357 pellet rifles out there. They can be shot fast enough in Pitbulls, .357 Texans, Slayers and other high powered guns that can launch them at 900 or better so they are still going fast enough when they hit the animal at linger ranges (for airgun).
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there are a LOT of lea bullets out there for the hand gun reloaded. Easy to search. Any hardness, many dia's. and always cheaper than going specialty ammo like airventuri. And better quality! 8)
the Hornady is listed as extra hard cast, .358 dia.
Knife
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I just shot some 40 and 90 yard groups with my NSA 110 and the Hornady 158.
Still no chronograph data its poor weather and very windy,gusting in the 20's
For my needs both perform well.I plan on shoot small hogs 20-40 yards.
Teathered at 2600 psi
NSA 1" at 40 yards
Hornady 1 1/4"
90 yards
NSA 1.5"
Hornady 2 1/8"
My lil 3x9x32 scope isn't rally a long range but that's not what I bough it for.
I may play with barrel supports to see if that helps.It helps on the pitbull guns also.
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Generally Black Powder bullets will be softer. look here
https://missouribullet.com/results.php?pageNum_rsCWResults=3&category=5&secondary=9
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Generally Black Powder bullets will be softer. look here
https://missouribullet.com/results.php?pageNum_rsCWResults=3&category=5&secondary=9
Thanks I was looking for some black powder .357's
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https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/great-lakes-bullets-and-ammunition-.38-caliber-.358-diameter-105-grain-cast-lead-truncated-cone-flat-point-bullets-100-pack-b688310/FC-702458688310.html (https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/great-lakes-bullets-and-ammunition-.38-caliber-.358-diameter-105-grain-cast-lead-truncated-cone-flat-point-bullets-100-pack-b688310/FC-702458688310.html)
So it states a 15 Bernell Hardness
Is that hard or soft?
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https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/great-lakes-bullets-and-ammunition-.38-caliber-.358-diameter-105-grain-cast-lead-truncated-cone-flat-point-bullets-100-pack-b688310/FC-702458688310.html (https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/great-lakes-bullets-and-ammunition-.38-caliber-.358-diameter-105-grain-cast-lead-truncated-cone-flat-point-bullets-100-pack-b688310/FC-702458688310.html)
So it states a 15 Bernell Hardness
Is that hard or soft?
Brinell #5 would be pure (soft) lead. The link above for Missouribullets.com advertises their black powder bullet's as a 12, and yours are a 15 and even harder yet. You'll have to try the different hardness levels to see which one acts better as far as speed and leading up the bore goes to know which your particular setup likes.
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Here's a link to a lead alloy hardness chart.
I've found that a hardness of between 8 and 10 works best in my Airguns.
Most commercial bullets are just too hard to shoot well, EVEN SOME OF THE SUPPOSED AIRGUN SUPPLIERS bullets are way too hard and don't get the accuracy that the SAME bullet cast in softer alloy does.
http://www.pnjresources.com/Hardness%20of%20Lead%20Alloys.htm (http://www.pnjresources.com/Hardness%20of%20Lead%20Alloys.htm)
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I may try these at $12 for 100 and three sizes to choose from.
http://www.gtbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=4 (http://www.gtbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=4)
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Hornady has these in a solid nose also.
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https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/great-lakes-bullets-and-ammunition-.38-caliber-.358-diameter-105-grain-cast-lead-truncated-cone-flat-point-bullets-100-pack-b688310/FC-702458688310.html (https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/great-lakes-bullets-and-ammunition-.38-caliber-.358-diameter-105-grain-cast-lead-truncated-cone-flat-point-bullets-100-pack-b688310/FC-702458688310.html)
So it states a 15 Bernell Hardness
Is that hard or soft?
15 is too hard. In my mind for the speeds your pushing and what your doing you will want at the most a 12. It will take to the rifling well, and expand better ... I’m an extensive caster and hand loader, I shoot mostly slower fatter things and like my bullets at or about 12 as they work well and don’t lead too much.
Good luck.
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Sorted some of the hornady by size.
Some measured .356-.359 so I shot two groups
.357 and .358
I like that both groups at 40 yards and 2900 psi fill both left 3 shots touching.
I believe I'll try a 2600 psi fill tommorow with the same test.
The circles I drew are a lil over 1".
More testing for sure.I have yet to buy a 9 bolt battery because its lousy weather here until Sunday and I go offshore sunday.
It may sound odd but for the shots I will be taking at short range these groups are acceptable.Its a very affordable round.
I'd like to achieve 1" at 50 yards.
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My fingernails are BHN 10-11 or so.... If I can't scratch a bullet with them, it is 12 or harder.... and IMO too hard for airgun use.... YFMV (your fingernails may vary)…. ;)
Bob
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Dug this bullet out of the dirt from my 50 yard groupings.
Doesn't seem like the rifeling is doing too much.
Very hard to measure with my calipers.....maybe it's my tired old eyes
The grooves measure .352" so it's a 6-7 thousandths diffrence.
and all my ammo scratches with my fingernails.
The Air Venturi seems to be the hardest.
MFMV (My Fingernails May Vary)
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If it didn't expand in dirt which is dense compaired to mostly water, it's not going to expand in flesh either and will simply punch through. There will be a hydraulic cavity form and cause damage (not hydrostatic shock) but only excellent bullet placement can still ensure a humane kill. A barely adequate situation though.
This is why I keep harping on having a BIG HP for Airguns that will expand at lower velocities and dump it's kinetic energy in the target and increase lethality.
Something like this 130gr .357 HP which WILL expand when fired at 850 FPS muzzle then having slowed downrange.
[These are cast in 2% tin and then coated with FinishLine 'Dry" chain wax then dusted with HBN (Hexagonal Boron Nitride "White Graphite" anti-friction powder for lubrication and no fouling]
Or you can use something like the NOE sketch shows which casts around 152gr in 2% but it may be slow in a stock gun... really needs a Pitbull, Texan or Slayer to drive it to 900+ and then it is AMAZING with its 'smack'. Good accuracy in all my .357 rifles
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It was soft clay mud when I fired them.
Still no expansion.Id guess I'm in the 720ish fps range at best which is not fast enough for expansion.
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My fingernails are BHN 10-11 or so.... If I can't scratch a bullet with them, it is 12 or harder.... and IMO too hard for airgun use.... YFMV (your fingernails may vary)…. ;)
Bob
I kept breaking my nails as I got older so i finally broke down and bought a Lee hardness test kit. That and I was trying to out shoot my kid on the gong at 800 yards with BPCR, and that's pretty tough. Back then he seemed to have no freekin pulse when he laid behind a rifle.
https://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/lead-hardness-tester/
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Ran some chrono test today.
My main test was 5 shot groups of JSB and Hornady
JSB 3000 PSI-2200Psi
935
928
917
903
885
50yards in teathered 1" FTC
Hornady 148 grains
2900 psi -2200 psi
780
774
731
720
703
50 yards 1 1/4" ctc
Un teathered
My Buddy just dropped off his press and die so I'll try some of the sized .357 ones.
Pushed a few slugs thru and the all measured .357 on a digital and manual caliper.
Mail man just delivered some grizzly slugs and Vortex pellets(identical to JSB)
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Tried sized and upsized Hornady 148 grains.
50 yards.
They look a little over 1"
Edited I went measure.
Un sized under 1"
Sized just over 1"
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So far it seems to perfer the un sorted and un sized .358 loads.
The NSA for some reason shoots horrible now.
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What's your thoughts on these
https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/federal-syntech-handgun-bullets-9mm-caliber-.355-diameter-115-grain-syntech-jacket-flat-nose-projectile-100-count-per-box/FC-604544626315.html (https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/federal-syntech-handgun-bullets-9mm-caliber-.355-diameter-115-grain-syntech-jacket-flat-nose-projectile-100-count-per-box/FC-604544626315.html)
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What's your thoughts on these
https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/federal-syntech-handgun-bullets-9mm-caliber-.355-diameter-115-grain-syntech-jacket-flat-nose-projectile-100-count-per-box/FC-604544626315.html (https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/federal-syntech-handgun-bullets-9mm-caliber-.355-diameter-115-grain-syntech-jacket-flat-nose-projectile-100-count-per-box/FC-604544626315.html)
A round nose, non-expanding AND it's .355?
Well it might be .356 so you are going to get some blow-by maybe which will reduce velocities.
I think you should buy a box and test them and report back.
I would note that I don't target shoot just to plink... I target shoot to HUNT accurately so don't bother with bullets that can not be used for that purpose. This bullet would be OK on small targets (like rabbits or similar sized game) but I would not use one on small to medium small game for any body shots, only head/brain shots.
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What's your thoughts on these
https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/federal-syntech-handgun-bullets-9mm-caliber-.355-diameter-115-grain-syntech-jacket-flat-nose-projectile-100-count-per-box/FC-604544626315.html (https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/federal-syntech-handgun-bullets-9mm-caliber-.355-diameter-115-grain-syntech-jacket-flat-nose-projectile-100-count-per-box/FC-604544626315.html)
A round nose, non-expanding AND it's .355?
Well it might be .356 so you are going to get some blow-by maybe which will reduce velocities.
I think you should buy a box and test them and report back.
I would note that I don't target shoot just to plink... I target shoot to HUNT accurately so don't bother with bullets that can not be used for that purpose. This bullet would be OK on small targets (like rabbits or similar sized game) but I would not use one on small to medium small game for any body shots, only head/brain shots.
Agreed.
I'm searching for a cheaper plinking round.
I just never heard of a lead round jacketed in synthetic before.
My issue is I love to plink.
.357 is expensive to plink.
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Coated bullets have been around for a long time but just never caught on.
Do a search for Nyclad which was origionally a Smith and Wesson development but later was produced by Federal.
Liberals were trying to shut down Indoor shooting ranges because of 'lead dust in the air' and federal EPA laws were passed and it made it look like that was all that could be shot. But instead ranges just put in better ventilation and filtering systems, haha.
Low sales killed the coated bullets. The FBI was on board for a while as a PC thing issuing it but quickly changed back to conventional ammo.
Cheap shooting is why do many people get into casting.
I've got a crapton of both weights of the Inceptor bullets which are copper dust and nylon polymer and their design does work to generate a big temporary wound cavity. they were $24 a box and when I heard they were being discontinued I bough 21 boxes (all they stocked) and no, I'm not selling any of them! I get 1 MOA at 100 yards and 1050 FPS (3400 fill) out of my Slayer although they do lose velocity fast. But inside 50 yards they make DRT hog kills. [No way to tell but I wonder if they actually achieve some hydrostatic shock which is usually impossible at subsonic velocities where we would expect to only get hydraulic shock in the temporary wound cavity]
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Don't just assume because a slug is 0.001" or even 0.002" smaller than the groove diameter that you will get enough blow-by to lose velocity.... I often find that velocity peaks when the slug is 0.002" under bore size, because the reduction in friction is more important than any possible blow-by.... Only by checking the velocity with a Chrony will you be SURE at what point blow-by is costing you velocity.... Even if you are 0.001" smaller than where you get the maximum velocity, accuracy is more important than a few fps.... Select the most accurate size for YOUR barrel....
Bob
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Mr Rsterne, in my Texan 357 anything not significantly over bore diamater goes slow, I don't use pure lead. Lots of blow by. My barrel is fire lapped if that makes a difference. The difference between a 148gr hollow base wadcutter I've played with a lot in sizing is around 730 fps sized at .3568, 870 fps sized at .3571 and 904 fps sized at .3575. Every slug I have tried does the same to one degree or another. The harder the lead, the greater the difference. For target shooting I use that 148gr hollow base wadcutter made by Zero. It is the hardest lead of anything I have shot. They come sized near .358, and did not shoot all that well in my texan at around 870fps. I resized them to .3568 and they slowed down, a lot and still did not shoot that well. Started working up and at .3575 they run right around 905 fps and are the most accurate slug I've used yet in my texan. Even so I don't use them much, seems the hard lead actually leads the bore a little more. A couple hundred rounds and I have to clean, accuracy actually starts falling off with them around 160 or so rounds.
I have mostly been using the swaged hornady cowboy lead the original poster is trying, being swaged they are a fairly soft lead and will deform some if a rib is hit going in. You can tell it deformed since the exit is not a clean punch out the swc delivers. Not as accurate as the Zero bullets but not bad and much cleaner. Out of all the Hornady cowboy 158 gr rounds, the round nose shoots best in my Texan, the SWCHP the worst, and the SWC is almost as good as the round nose. I wish they were sized bigger. The OP is showing .358 in his pictures, but I have gone through 6 different boxes purchased at 3 different retailers and they are all sized .357 if you take the hard waxy lube off them. I tried cleaning the lube off some of them, and they slowed down significantly, blow by. The lube keeps them sealed in my texan and they run about 905 fps, without the lube and running at the .357 they are actually sized to that drops to 880 ish fps and horrible accuracy in my texan. The 158 gr hornady cowboy SWC is what I use deer hunting when I'm not using a powder burner. Don't need any expansion, punch the swc through both lungs and one dead deer with a good blood trail. I've now shot 4 deer with that slug, the largest was just over 140lbs field dressed. Clean pass throughs on all, good blood trail on all, and so far longest recovery was on one that was nervous and saw me, she made the mistake of taking the time to blow at me instead of instantly running. She made it about 80 yards on a dead run before piling up. I started deer hunting around 1980 and for the first few years I only used my S&W 38 special 6 inch target. Loaded of course with 158 gr semi wadcutters, never lost a deer with it, always had pass throughs and good blood trails. My Texan actually shoots faster than my S&W 38.
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Whatever works for you, Karl, is great!!!
All I can say is that my experience in several PCPs is different.... For example, in a .22 cal PCP, where the groove diameter is 0.217" and the chamber measures 0.218", with 29.6 gr. BBTs at 2000 psi in a 28" barrel I got the following velocities....
0.219".... 956 fps
0.218".... 956 fps
0.217".... 963 fps
0.216".... 972 fps
I didn't have a 0.215" sizing bushing to try, unfortunately.... The largest size slug, at 0.219", was being sized by the chamber to 0.218", so it makes perfect sense the velocity would be the same as the 0.218" slug.... YMMV....
Bob
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I'll give these a try.
At $11 for 100 they are worth a look
I like the large hollow point hole.
The NSA 110 frains do not expand well for me since the hollow point wall is so thin.
Expansion isn't really a big deal to me at this time.
Just on a quest to find what(if)cheap ammo I can shoot sub 1" groups consistantly with.
Also learning alot and I appreciate the help.
I did try cranking in the hammer spring.Did not gain much.I assume it's because I'm limited by the transfer port size.
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The 9mm 130 hp came in but I have no time to test them.
Ordered them in .357 size the just squeeze through die.
Lead feels hard.Hopefully the group atleast 1" at 50 yards.
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In the middle on picture looks like machine casting pistol bullet. It is probably at least 12-14 BHN.... Did you try do dent on it with nail?
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In the middle on picture looks like machine casting pistol bullet. It is probably at least 12-14 BHN.... Did you try do dent on it with nail?
I can scratch and dent it.
It is as hard as the Air Venturi bullets.
I'm going to experiment with my lathe and try to machine another grove in them.
See if that helps.
Once I get home from work for testing.
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I think y'all might get some good results with boolits from a Lyman 356158. This is going to be a bit heavier with softer alloy( mostly lead, 2% tin ). It can be lightened with a big HP, and some more by milling off some of the gas check stub. Part of its likelihood for good shooting comes from even having a gas check stub in the first place. The last band will get fully, and consistently formed. it is the last thing to leave the barrel, and its consistency is important.
cheers,
Douglas
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I work offshore and met a guy that cast all his own ammo as a hobby.
Says he has several .38 and .357 molds and hes happy to cast me some samples.
Great Luck.
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In my earlier post I showed a picture of some 130gr HP but didn't say what mold they were from.
These are actually a .355 mold but the bullets throw at .357 unsized and I can shoot them 'as cast'.but usually run them quickly through a 357 die just to true them a bit (they almost fall through but take a tiny bit of sizing to 'circularize' them)
If you are going to have someone cast for you (you could buy the mold and have them use it) this bullet fills out well and casts easily, dropping off the pins with just a shake.
Here's the link:
https://noebulletmolds.com/site/product-category/355-9mm/tl357-135-rf-au5 (https://noebulletmolds.com/site/product-category/355-9mm/tl357-135-rf-au5)
Here's another bullet I use in lower power rifles and as a plinker that in the HP has done a serviceable job
https://noebulletmolds.com/site/product-category/355-9mm/359-115-rf-r2 (https://noebulletmolds.com/site/product-category/355-9mm/359-115-rf-r2)
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Big surprise with some cheap 130 grain hollow points today.
Ordered in .358" and they made about 2" groups at 50 yards with a dirty barrel.
Sized a few .357 and 7/8" group
Expanded in a really soft soil pile I have to .517"
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Ran a 3 shot string over chronograph
2800 psi fill
789
777
760
Peak of 180ft lbs.
Should would like to sling these a lil faster but then it would sling pellets too fast.
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Great day in my book.
Academy had some Hornady 148gr hollow point Wadcutters.$23 for 250
Measured .360"
Ran them through the die and measure .357"
50 yards just over 3/4" group was my best.
Worse was a 1.023" ctc.
In soft loose soil they expanded to .520" and did not travel far in there.
I'm impressed and I'm going to buy some more.
Did not chronograph yet but I expect 750ish fps.
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The Wad Cutter B.C. is 0.47
They drop alot and loose energy much faster than other bullets so I think I found a substitute for pellets.
On Chairgun just inputting 750fps they drop 22" at 100yards
184ft lbs at muzzle and 111 at 100.
Have to chronograph a shot string tommor and I may up my power input and drop pellets all together
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In my earlier post I showed a picture of some 130gr HP but didn't say what mold they were from.
These are actually a .355 mold but the bullets throw at .357 unsized and I can shoot them 'as cast'.but usually run them quickly through a 357 die just to true them a bit (they almost fall through but take a tiny bit of sizing to 'circularize' them)
If you are going to have someone cast for you (you could buy the mold and have them use it) this bullet fills out well and casts easily, dropping off the pins with just a shake.
Here's the link:
https://noebulletmolds.com/site/product-category/355-9mm/tl357-135-rf-au5 (https://noebulletmolds.com/site/product-category/355-9mm/tl357-135-rf-au5)
Here's another bullet I use in lower power rifles and as a plinker that in the HP has done a serviceable job
https://noebulletmolds.com/site/product-category/355-9mm/359-115-rf-r2 (https://noebulletmolds.com/site/product-category/355-9mm/359-115-rf-r2)
+1
The noe 135 is now my big game round, no hollow point for me though. Big meplats do enough damage on their own
Edit: Jus fyi it drops at 138gr in 1.5% tin and as kinetic said ~.357 diameter
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Well I cant leave any airgun alone...…...ever.
Took her apart and found every screw on the barrel loose.
Removed the plastic transfer port and drilled out the valve and barrel port to .260"
Used a Dermel and a small bit to round off the edges and make it flow better.
Removed the barrel o-ring and cleaned the barrel a lot.
Reassembled and starting cranking in the hammer spring until I reached the Max velocity.Her are some strings on a 2800 PSI fill down to 2000 PSI.....so 1000 PSI for 5 shots.
Hornady 148 grain Hollow Point WadCutters 224 ft lbs
827
810
796
757
707
GT Bullets 9mm sized to .357 130 grain hollow points for 236 ft lbs
905
890
870
845
814
Hornady 158 grain hollow point 241 ft lbs
830
812
791
765
727
First 3 shots are nearly the same hole 4 and 5 drop a little at 50 yards.Every shot afte shot six is a big drop.
Probly going to tune it down for 5 respectable shots but I just thought my FPS gain was impressive and back to what I originally though that the transfer port size was the guns limits.
The groups at 50 yards are all about the same.I have some more Bullets in the mail.
I did not chrono them but the JSB are probly over 1000 fps and they even grouped 1" at 50 yards.
One of the WadCutters in clay mud expanded to .629" That's just over 5/8"
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So more cheap ammo came in in .38 and 9m sized to .357
The 115 grains cycle and are really flying.No chronograph cause it's raining but fired off two rounds and they went into the same hole at 40 yards.
So there is promise.
All are about 10 cents each.
Sorry the pic is sideways
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It's raining but shooting out of the back door the 148 grain wad cutters group 3/4" or smaller at 40 yards.
I installed the transfer port and lowered hammer spring back to factor settings for now.
At high power for 240ish fpe it uses about 900 psi for 5 shots
On low power which is probly just under 200 fpe it uses 600 psi.
However so far the wad cutters rule.
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Returned the gun to near factory settings.
No chrono results but the 148 grain wad cutters are awesome.Teathered at 3000 psi at 51 yards.
Tried 100 yards but it's too much for my 3x scope to see results or to attain good ones.
But its $12 for 100 rounds.Im happy with them.
Hopefully when I crank up the power they stay accurate.I have a hog hunt planned next month.
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Whats the details on those 148 wad cutters?
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Whats the details on those 148 wad cutters?
Besides that they are awesome.......
Gt bullets.
http://www.gtbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=92 (http://www.gtbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=92)
Shipping is kinda slow so is updates but cheap and worth the wait.
Good quality.
I order them in .358 and run them through a die but they did measure .358 on arrival.
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According to this vid
I shoot them backwards.......wonder if my fps will pick up and groups tighten if I shoot them correctly.
https://youtu.be/5vJ-36kcEuA
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According to this vid
I shoot them backwards.......wonder if my fps will pick up and groups tighten if I shoot them correctly.
Cool video find! The way you have been shooting them puts the center of gravity more rearwards. With them being a straight walled cylinder and the center of gravity only slightly behind it probably won't want to wabble and tumble to go weight first. Longer range might be the real test there, when it really slows down. Even though his velocities were comparable to yours, some ballistics gel testing with the rifle would be great to see.
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Just want to put this out there
NSA ammo performed the best groups but for plinking at $30 plus shipping for 100 rounds.......not for me.
$17 shipped for 100 rounds cheap wad cutters.
Or 500 rounds $50 shipped cheap wad cutters for game and target shooting.......that's for me.
These wad cutters are cheaper than pellets currently.
.......And accurate......in my bulldog.
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Kool.
I never got into the cast boolits so I don't know much.
Does the lubrication residue that is from the gas rings have any chance of detonation?
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Kool.
I never got into the cast boolits so I don't know much.
Does the lubrication residue that is from the gas rings have any chance of detonation?
To be honest I never thought about that.......however I recovered shot slugs to check the rifling grooves and found no trace of burns or heat damage.
Not saying it is not combustible or flamable.Maybe I'm lucky so far.I'll research on it.
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According to this vid
I shoot them backwards.......wonder if my fps will pick up and groups tighten if I shoot them correctly.
Cool video find! The way you have been shooting them puts the center of gravity more rearwards. With them being a straight walled cylinder and the center of gravity only slightly behind it probably won't want to wabble and tumble to go weight first. Longer range might be the real test there, when it really slows down. Even though his velocities were comparable to yours, some ballistics gel testing with the rifle would be great to see.
I have shot paper/boxes at 105 yards and its still clean round holes.They punch paper really nice.Perfectly cut holes.
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thanks for sharing. I am hopeful I can find a more economical slug for a .357 TJ's barreled QB78 project. it doesn't quite have the horsepower for 140+gr, it's more of a 105-130gr gun. I just placed an order with Desperado Cowboy bullets for 100 packs of their 105gr and 125gr. They are advertised at 8-9 brinell. Hopefully they do well as they are priced very competitively, they are basically the same price, maybe a little less than 81gr vortex pellets when buying 100. Buy more and they are significantly less.
I am optimistic the driving bands/lube groove translate into less bore friction than NSA's .
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I tried the 115 grains from GTBullets.My Bulldog is more accurate with longer slugs.
I have some 130 grain hollow points that do well.
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Let's update:
Gt bullets .380 88 grains sized .357 are amazing.
Leaning against a post 90 yards yeilded 2.5" group around 160 ft lbs
The Hornady .38 158gr LRN yeilded a 2" group.
Best of all avalible at Al Academy's 300 count for $29
No pics.i buy the .38 cals and size them through a Lee die/hand press .357.
About 9 cents per round.
https://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/hornady-lrn-38-158-grain-bullets (https://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/hornady-lrn-38-158-grain-bullets)
https://www.gtbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10&products_id=31 (https://www.gtbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10&products_id=31)
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you've been quite the busy beaver, my friend! Look at you, with your 224FPE Bulldog!
I'm gonna have to say that's pretty good air usage and impressive numbers. Accuracy is pretty good too!
Me, I picked up a Pitbull Carbine recently. She's the heaviest hitter right now at 220FPE, but she also seems to be the least accurate. I use 108gr HPs, 122gr semi-cone flats, and 105gr SWCs. It's like a cone with a flat tip.
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I alot of bullets today.
My goal was to find the most accurate at 40 yards then try for 100 yards.
I settled on the gt bullets .380 (sized .357) 88 grain hollow points and the Hornady 158 grain LRN
40 and 102 yards.
You can see the 158 grain ran vertical line from pressure changes with each shot.
The 10mph gusting winds took its toll on the 88 grains.
However I'm very pleased.
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Hey that's not bad. I get touching holes at 40 with the 108gr, but that's only on a 2500PSI fill. I think I need to fill up to full 3K. Maybe that'll help stabilize and increase accuracy. The 105gr seemed to work out alright, but I'll need to try a 3K fill and see how they do at that pressure.
I have some 86gr HP EPP/UGs, and those were going 910 at the 2500 fill. Not the greatest accuracy, though. Rick has some 90gr solid point versions of that slug, so I think I'll be giving those a shot too.
It's a shame GT don't ship out here. Those 88gr look pretty good. What speeds were you getting with those two slugs?
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Last time I chronographed them the 88 grains I liked them at 900 fps but I can go faster
The 158 grains were 850ish
P.m. me your address and I'll see what kinda quotes I can get to send you a couple to try.
If they work out and your will to pay the shipping we can get you some GT Bullets.......if its possible
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Hmm...those are pretty good speeds. Looks like your Bulldog is a firebreather! Nice!
Thanks for the offer...I really appreciate it. Lemme take a look at their site again; I think I'm slowly making a switch from HP to solids.
Thanks again!
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No chrono since it's raining but here is a prime example of "Tune the hammer spring to each bullet.
Bulldog .357 and the GT Bullets 88 grain .380 sized .357"
Started at with the hammer spring cap flush and increased turns in until I found what velocity the bullets performed best.
Every 5 shots topped off to 2900psi
40 yards
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No chrono since it's raining but here is a prime example of "Tune the hammer spring to each bullet.
Bulldog .357 and the GT Bullets 88 grain .380 sized .357"
Started at with the hammer spring cap flush and increased turns in until I found what velocity the bullets performed best.
Every 5 shots topped off to 2900psi
40 yards
When shooting the GT 88gr in my OEM Bulldog barrel they do not like being pushed beyond the mid 800's range, maybe up to the 870's. It prefers them closer to 850fps. I believe this is due to the relatively fast rate of twist. When shooting them from my TJ's 1:26 equipped gun they do fine up to the low 900's. In my TJ's-equipped regulated Bulldog they shoot 1" at 100 yards...
(https://i.imgur.com/cH8EFzJ.jpg)
Shy of sending your gun off to have the barrel tensioned, there is another DIY method of increasing barrel stability in the Bulldog. IMO, forget the loose fitting barrel/shroud spacers offered by various manufacturers. So far I've had a couple different types and none fit tight enough for my preferences. Purchase 2-3 more rear shroud adapters from Crosman. The Crosman rear shroud adapter is made to much tighter tolerances plus it has the oring to help maintain barrel/shroud alignment. Make shims from brass stock to make up the difference between the barrel's forward section that is 5/8 OD vs the rear that is 11/16". This will all but make the barrel/shroud one solid unit, and your groups will tighten significantly.
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Thas an amazing group for sure.
I really like the 88grains.
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If you like to experiment more Matt's bullets has a pretty nice selection,
I used to shoot his stuff back in the day and liked it a lot,.....you can ask him not to put the lube or gas check in the bullets as he makes them.
https://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=65 (https://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=65)
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If you like to experiment more Matt's bullets has a pretty nice selection,
I used to shoot his stuff back in the day and liked it a lot,.....you can ask him not to put the lube or gas check in the bullets as he makes them.
https://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=65 (https://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=65)
Very interesting for sure.
Thanks.
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Rick Morrill on the AA Airgun Classifieds sells 358 bullets of the correct diameter for the Bulldog and the correct alloy, what your shooting is not good bullets for the Bulldog, they are too hard. I bought some of his 122 grain bullets, they were very accurate, enough so that I purchased the mold.
I cast 3 different bullets for my Bulldog, I get good accuracy with the NOE 152-358 , they are 152 grain hollow-points, at 865 FPS. I use 40-1 alloy.
Matt, from Pitbull, used my 178grain Lyman 358429 to hit a 300 yard golf ball.
Regards,
Roachcreek
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Rick Morrill on the AA Airgun Classifieds sells 358 bullets of the correct diameter for the Bulldog and the correct alloy, what your shooting is not good bullets for the Bulldog, they are too hard. I bought some of his 122 grain bullets, they were very accurate, enough so that I purchased the mold.
I cast 3 different bullets for my Bulldog, I get good accuracy with the NOE 152-358 , they are 152 grain hollow-points, at 865 FPS. I use 40-1 alloy.
Matt, from Pitbull, used my 178grain Lyman 358429 to hit a 300 yard golf ball.
Regards,
Roachcreek
RC, I want to respectfully add some info that is not 100% in alignment with yours... I don't have a lot of slug experience and no casting experience, so this is based on limited experience with 3 different .357 barrels (2 OEM Crosman, 1 tj's.) Of the 2 OEM Bulldog barrels, one prefers .356, the other .357. Neither like .358. I size with the NOE system. The TJ's does well with .358 and .357, with a slight edge going to 357.
Regarding hardness, the bullets from GT Bullets are cast in 2-2-96. I don't know what this means, but I can tell you that they aren't too difficult to push through the bore and shoot very accurately. The little 88gr expands pretty well too. here are a couple of pics when shot in water jugs at 60ish yards. MV around 915fps IIRC. The slug passed through one jug and was captured in the second. If the ammo was too hard, I would expect to see things such as lower velocity, poor accuracy, little or no expansion? Are there other indicators of the bullet being too hard? Thanks in advance...
(https://i.imgur.com/Gwm13Ap.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/W1xNQq6.jpg)
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I personally have had better luck with .358 and 40-1 lead and use it in all my casting Having said that you are certainly getting good results. Your
Bullets that are too hard would probably blow breech/barrel o-rings if they do anything.
Matt at Pitbull is a great guy and If I did not cast, I would probably buy from him or Morril.
The diameter of your barrels indicate the importance of slugging a barrel, as different batches and in your case, you have matched the bullets to the barrels correctly.
My Bulldog seems to prefer the .358 and 40-1.
I prefer to roll my own. In past years when I have purchased bullets, I have found them to be of a quality that would make fine remelt. As a home caster and being retired I have the time to weigh each individual bullet and to also I Check for defects, a chore my wife helps me with due to my poor vision. Buying commercial cast bullets that are specific to airguns. also gave me a chance to test that particular design before buying the mold.
These days I use in order of preference for molds, I prefer Arsenal and Accurate molds as I can request the diameter to match what ever barrel I am using and also the alloy. NOE comes next due to the design offered and their sizing system they designed. I used Lyman molds for decades, but they drop what I consider to be diameters way over what I would consider correct, mainly due to the fact that if you size a bullet too far you risk deforming it with most sizing systems if you try to do it in one pass.
Examples of this are the 257420 molds made by Lyman and Arsenal. My Arsenal molds drop my bullets right at my requested diameter of .258, while my Lyman mood 257420 drops at .261. If you size oversized bullets in steps, with successive smaller dies with the NOE system you can avoid sizing damage by Lyman/RCBS designed sizing press, but why would I want to if I can buy a mold that drops bullets that are so close in diameter to my barrel that I can shoot as cast.
And again it is why I cast my own, if a commercial caster does what I do, the bullets will be vastly more expensive. However some commercial caster do this.
I encourage you do become a caster, with your airgun Smith skills you would become one of the ultimate slug shooting air gunners. Having said this I do realize physical, life partners and residence requirements prevent this, myself I am sure my children, wife and relatives would prefer that I give up my Braille casting, but they know how much I like rolling my own. ::)
Regards,
Roachcreek
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I personally have had better luck with .358 and 40-1 lead and use it in all my casting Having said that you are certainly getting good results. Your
Bullets that are too hard would probably blow breech/barrel o-rings if they do anything.
Matt at Pitbull is a great guy and If I did not cast, I would probably buy from him or Morril.
The diameter of your barrels indicate the importance of slugging a barrel, as different batches and in your case, you have matched the bullets to the barrels correctly.
My Bulldog seems to prefer the .358 and 40-1.
I prefer to roll my own. In past years when I have purchased bullets, I have found them to be of a quality that would make fine remelt. As a home caster and being retired I have the time to weigh each individual bullet and to also I Check for defects, a chore my wife helps me with due to my poor vision. Buying commercial cast bullets that are specific to airguns. also gave me a chance to test that particular design before buying the mold.
These days I use in order of preference for molds, I prefer Arsenal and Accurate molds as I can request the diameter to match what ever barrel I am using and also the alloy. NOE comes next due to the design offered and their sizing system they designed. I used Lyman molds for decades, but they drop what I consider to be diameters way over what I would consider correct, mainly due to the fact that if you size a bullet too far you risk deforming it with most sizing systems if you try to do it in one pass.
Examples of this are the 257420 molds made by Lyman and Arsenal. My Arsenal molds drop my bullets right at my requested diameter of .258, while my Lyman mood 257420 drops at .261. If you size oversized bullets in steps, with successive smaller dies with the NOE system you can avoid sizing damage by Lyman/RCBS designed sizing press, but why would I want to if I can buy a mold that drops bullets that are so close in diameter to my barrel that I can shoot as cast.
And again it is why I cast my own, if a commercial caster does what I do, the bullets will be vastly more expensive. However some commercial caster do this.
I encourage you do become a caster, with your airgun Smith skills you would become one of the ultimate slug shooting air gunners. Having said this I do realize physical, life partners and residence requirements prevent this, myself I am sure my children, wife and relatives would prefer that I give up my Braille casting, but they know how much I like rolling my own. ::)
Regards,
Roachcreek
Thank you for your thoughtful response RC. Life became busy for a couple days so I am a little delayed in responding. We have a few more years of our girls being home with us, perhaps once we become empty-nesters I may take up casting. My father and I used to cast fishing weights and roundball/maxi ball for muzzle loaders when I was young, but by no means were either of these an exercise in precision.... For now in obtaining slugs, I'm compromising on quality/precision for cost/level of effort. I don't have access to longer ranges so these cheap cowboy bullets seem to suffice. The information that you, Mike/Knife, and others have so freely shared helped me to at least understand the basics to the point that MOA shooting isn't an unreasonable expectation out of my guns. And I do certainly appreciate it, has been an interesting journey thus far. Perhaps someday I will have the opportunity to try for longer ranges.
On another note, I do believe for the first time in many years I will purchase a hunting license this year and take an animal or two with an airgun, or two....
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Gt bullets .380 88 grain sized .357 50 yards
Left group 3000 psi -2500 psi
Second group 2500 psi-2000 psi
Soft soil expansion .802"
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Gt bullets .380 88 grain sized .357 50 yards
Left group 3000 psi -2500 psi
Second group 2500 psi-2000 psi
Soft soil expansion .802"
You're making progress. Have you tried sizing to .356? I have one BD barrel that prefers .356....
I shot a few of the 88gr this morning, they are absolutely surgical in my regulated, TJ barreled Bulldog. 1 inch spinner out at 70 yards is almost child's play...
Some day I will take a critter with the 88gr.......
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Gt bullets .380 88 grain sized .357 50 yards
Left group 3000 psi -2500 psi
Second group 2500 psi-2000 psi
Soft soil expansion .802"
You're making progress. Have you tried sizing to .356? I have one BD barrel that prefers .356....
I shot a few of the 88gr this morning, they are absolutely surgical in my regulated, TJ barreled Bulldog. 1 inch spinner out at 70 yards is almost child's play...
Some day I will take a critter with the 88gr.......
I only have a .357lee die at this time but I'm going to clean my barrel and try again today.
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Hmm...it looks like those 88s prefer a 2500PSI fill. Looks like a tighter group.
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I did clean the barrel and found a leaking breach Seal leaking.
More shooting to come.Still at 52 yards I destroyed a large pest squirrel with a brain shot.
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nice!