GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Rallyshark on December 31, 2019, 12:52:40 AM
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I'm leaning towards Flash XL. I've long suspected that the BT65/Galatian air cylinder would fit on the Flash valve, and I finally got to test that theory. It turns out I was correct! 165cc just became 255cc :D Thanks to blackdiesel(Norman), I acquired a BT65 cylinder to test out. It fits the valve and the gun with no issues at all. It screws right onto the Flash valve. On a side note, the BT65 valve will fit the aluminum Flash cylinder too, but I don't know why anyone would do that.
Before everyone with a Flash variant starts scheming, this will not work on the Sythetic Flashpup or Flash Wood, due to those models using the steel cylinder. Those have a different size valve threading and won't fit. In other words, it will only work on the regular Flash or Flashpup Wood. I suppose you could just order the regular Flash or Flashpup valve to make it work if you wanted. The other downside is barrel length. By my "calculations", you will need a minimum barrel length of around 22.5-23". The BT cylinder is a little over 6" longer than the standard aluminum Flash cylinder, so the QE won't clear and neither will an LDC with the factory barrel. This isn't an issue for the gun I'm playing with, since I have a 23.8" LW unchoked polygon barrel on the gun.
Now, the good side of things... Of course, you get increased shot count(almost double on my particular slug tune). Another Huge benefit is that you can get a high power reg/plenum(BT carnivore .30) from the good folks at Huma! That means you guys running high power tunes can keep them, and be regulated! That would yield a good shot count increase and good power, especially for you .25 guys out there. It doesn't necessarily work that way for my gun in it's current state of tune, because you have to push things pretty hard to shoot .177 slugs at the speeds I'm shooting them, and the shot count is actually lower with the Carnivore reg/plenum installed. If I lower the speed down, it will be a different story. As for the extra weight of the longer cylinder, it isn't that much. It probably just puts it in the ball park of the steel cylinder Flash, maybe slightly more. I think it would barely be noticeable on the pup especially.
I will update this with pictures when I get my Flashpup Wood in, and relocate the barrel to it. I will also go through everything on the gun and tune it for the best flow I can. Currently, my Flash .177 is shooting 21 grain NSA slugs at 962 fps for 22 shots with an ES of 29 fps(3%) using the BT cylinder. If I were going for one magazine(14 shots), the ES would be under 20 fps. I may be able to better that slightly with some attention to detail on the porting. That isn't this guns max power with these slugs, but that is where it is happy shooting a decent string. My results could vary a little with a different gun, so we'll see ;) The unchoked polygon is doing very well with the NSA 21 grain and 18 grain slugs! The 18 grain are shooting great, even at 1025fps :o I will also be testing some 23 and 24 grain Griffin slugs in it soon, so stay tuned on that front.
Anywho, I just wanted to let you guys know that there is a solution for more air on the aluminum cylindered Flash and Flashpup, along with a reg with a proper plenum. Just for reference, you can get a refurb BT/Galatian cylinder from Hatsan for $99, so not too bad. Hopefully, some of tinkerers out there will find this info useful. More to come!
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Ah...but scheming is allowed for us "maybe" future owners of a regular Flash, then?
Crying shame it won't work with the wood version...it makes it such a pretty gun!
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Ah...but scheming is allowed for us "maybe" future owners of a regular Flash, then?
Crying shame it won't work with the wood version...it makes it such a pretty gun!
You could make it work, if you replaced the valve with the one in the regular Flash. Of course, there's the barrel length issue too, so you'd need a longer barrel. Fitment issues aside, I imagine you could get an insane shot count regulated at mid and low power ranges :D
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Another positive I forgot to mention is the gauges. The gauge on the cylinder will show the cylinder pressure, and the gauge on the gun would show regulated pressure if a reg was added.
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OK, now you have me thinking about my flash with the QE shroud and a way to utilise the BT65 air cylinder. Would a BT65 QE shroud fit onto the Flash block and maybe the barrel for the respective caliber? What the heck, since you are looking at seeing what kind of parts swap would work.
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I need to avoid this thread like the plague. Last thing I need is to grow the pile of parts to build a FrankenTurk PCP.
Oh... who am I kidding! subscribed!
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Out of curiosity from someone new at mods, what is the cost of the LW barrel and where do you locate one? I just got a Flashpup wood in 25 cal and think I want a slug barrel. I'm guessing from reading the posts other mods are need such as enlarging ports.
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OK, now you have me thinking about my flash with the QE shroud and a way to utilise the BT65 air cylinder. Would a BT65 QE shroud fit onto the Flash block and maybe the barrel for the respective caliber? What the heck, since you are looking at seeing what kind of parts swap would work.
The Flash actually uses the BT65 barrel band, so the shroud would fit, but the barrel itself won't fit. Unfortunately, you'd have to get a barrel machined to fit. The diameter where the barrel fits into the breech is different. It would be nice if it was the same, because you could just order another barrel from Hatsan then. The BT65, AT44, Bullboss, Air Max, and Nova all use the same barrel. Too bad the Flash uses a different one :(
I need to avoid this thread like the plague. Last thing I need is to grow the pile of parts to build a FrankenTurk PCP.
Oh... who am I kidding! subscribed!
Haha, how about a Turkenstein :D
Out of curiosity from someone new at mods, what is the cost of the LW barrel and where do you locate one? I just got a Flashpup wood in 25 cal and think I want a slug barrel. I'm guessing from reading the posts other mods are need such as enlarging ports.
I think the LW barrel blanks are $115, and you can order them from LW. Just google LW airgun barrels, and you'll find their site. Of course, you'll still have to get the barrel machined to fit the gun. As far as mods go, it doesn't really require anything too crazy. Just open up the porting and install a PEEK valve seat(which you will also have to make). You can also just open up the factory valve seat a little and it will do pretty well. A longer barrel on these guns helps a lot with power too.
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Hey Donny,
will that new style cocking handle work on the syn-flash rifle??
it would be nice if it did !!
looks like it wont get hung up in hunting clothes like the original does. ???
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Sorry John, no luck on that one. The one from the SFP is held in place with a screw that goes into the probe from the left side of the gun through a hole in the breech block. The regular Flash doesn't have that hole in the breech block, and the bolt handle is screwed down from the right side onto the probe.
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Sorry John, no luck on that one. The one from the SFP is held in place with a screw that goes into the probe from the left side of the gun through a hole in the breech block. The regular Flash doesn't have that hole in the breech block, and the bolt handle is screwed down from the right side onto the probe.
well shoot !!!
anyway, thanks for the info...much appreciated ;)
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Ah...but scheming is allowed for us "maybe" future owners of a regular Flash, then?
Crying shame it won't work with the wood version...it makes it such a pretty gun!
You could make it work, if you replaced the valve with the one in the regular Flash. Of course, there's the barrel length issue too, so you'd need a longer barrel. Fitment issues aside, I imagine you could get an insane shot count regulated at mid and low power ranges :D
Hmm...now that has the gears turning. I probably wouldn't need a regulator for low energy tunes, though.
I just had a little shooting session today with my stock BB. Its turned waaay down low...something like 400FPS with the 14.3gr Crosmans. Good enough to take out a pigeon at 30yds...and more than enough for plinking. 230cc cylinder gave me 100 shots...from 200bar down to about 145. :o
I have a feeling the Galatian cylinder will give me something similar with the Flash. ;D
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If I were you, I'd stick that regulator you have in that BB that you're shooting low power at, and I bet you could beat that 100 shots easily at that power level. Just set the reg real low, and you could shoot all day,lol!
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I like Turkenstein. Yessirree.
The thought of a Flash with a big tube, regulator, and lower-speed tune focused on the 15-to-16 FPE range would be incredibly appealing as a backyard pesting tool. Though- despite being bottle-fed, I love the lines on the Predator, too. And I dig the Vectis, too.
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I like Turkenstein. Yessirree.
The thought of a Flash with a big tube, regulator, and lower-speed tune focused on the 15-to-16 FPE range would be incredibly appealing as a backyard pesting tool. Though- despite being bottle-fed, I love the lines on the Predator, too. And I dig the Vectis, too.
At that power level, you could get a ton of shots with the BT cylinder installed! I managed to get 56 shots regulated at that power level with the factory 165 cc cylinder and factory barrel. I did do the "cobra" mod to the valve spring to get there though. I've since removed the "cobra" mod in favor of power. Read below, the Turkenstein is going to be nuts!
I just got part way done with the new Flashpup Wood. I did all the porting, changed the HS out, and installed a PEEK valve seat. I found a little room for improvement with the hole in the valve lining up with the transfer, and ported the valve accordingly. Finally, I moved the 23.8" poly barrel over from the regular Flash, and shot a few over the chrony to make sure all the bits are working. It is gonna be a little monster of a .177 :D As I always do, I cranked the HS just to see what it had for the fun of it. I put some 24 grain griffin slugs in the single shot tray, and she peaked at 990 fps on the second shot! That's right, the little Flash .177 hit 52 fpe 8) 8) 8) The first shot was 985, then 990, then 979. I stopped after that and lowered the HS down to a more sane 925 fps for when I do some testing on target.
That was with the factory air cylinder. I left it sitting to make sure the valve is going to hold air, because the PEEK seat was a TIGHT fit in the valve. So much so that it shaved a sliver of the o-ring off when I banged it home :-[ I know, kinda sketchy... I'm not super worried about it, since I know there was just no more room for o-ring left with how tight it fit. It is still holding right now, but we'll see where it is tomorrow. Worse case, I'll have to dig that seat out and make another one. The machining on this gun isn't as good as the Synthetic Flashpup I got, but I cleaned most of that stuff up. Regardless, the gun should be able to do a solid 20 shot power tune in the 45 fpe range with the BT cylinder installed. It picked up a couple fpe just by getting that valve aligned with the transfer better. The hole in the valve from the factory doesn't line up perfectly, so I had to open it up "manually" with a carbide bit(as opposed to just drilling the hole out larger).
If any of you guys are going to open up the valve hole, spin the valve around(without the o-rings installed) 180 degrees, and see if it lines up with the middle hole that the larger grub screw holding the valve goes in. That will tell you if it is lining up with the transfer. That's all I have for now guys, but more to come soon. I just had to update you folks the power the little Turkenstein is making ;D
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How accurate are the slugs out of the puppy?
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The NSA 21 grain and 18 grain have proven to be very accurate out of the unchoked poly barrel. Small targets at 100+ yards were pretty easy, and they buck the wind very well! I just got some griffin 23/24 grain in yesterday, but I haven't got to test them yet. I hope to try them this weekend, if the weather allows.
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50+ FPE in .177.... Jiminy Cricket! That's insane- and conversely, that energy level out of that tube a super-low-power level will be a pellet-tin-emptying tune.
I know most folks like tuning for power, but I'm especially fond of lower tunes to get the most out of wadcutters. I'm keeping my eye on this thread.
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The NSA 21 grain and 18 grain have proven to be very accurate out of the unchoked poly barrel. Small targets at 100+ yards were pretty easy, and they buck the wind very well! I just got some griffin 23/24 grain in yesterday, but I haven't got to test them yet. I hope to try them this weekend, if the weather allows.
Thanks! Very good news!
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50+ FPE in .177.... Jiminy Cricket! That's insane- and conversely, that energy level out of that tube a super-low-power level will be a pellet-tin-emptying tune.
I know most folks like tuning for power, but I'm especially fond of lower tunes to get the most out of wadcutters. I'm keeping my eye on this thread.
It can be made to do just about any tune you want! It is mostly a matter of spending a little time on them, with not much in parts cost :)
The NSA 21 grain and 18 grain have proven to be very accurate out of the unchoked poly barrel. Small targets at 100+ yards were pretty easy, and they buck the wind very well! I just got some griffin 23/24 grain in yesterday, but I haven't got to test them yet. I hope to try them this weekend, if the weather allows.
Thanks! Very good news!
Yes it is. I was so dang happy when I finally found a barrel that likes the .177 slugs! I don't mean does okay, but actually shoots really well with them. The combo of power/low noise/long range effectiveness/penetration offered by this combo is pretty awesome in my book.
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Donny, builds like this and the use of slugs are going to change airgunning in a huge way.
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Donny, builds like this and the use of slugs are going to change airgunning in a huge way.
I believe you are correct. I mean, this gun shooting slugs can do stuff no .177 should be able to do! Plus, I can order the ammo, without having to cast my own :D
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Okay, I got the "Turkenstein" Flashpup XL slapped together a few minutes ago. It looks much better than I expected, because I wasn't sure how wonky it would look with that big air cylinder. The parts/mod list is:
-Wood Flashpup .177
-BT65 air cylinder
-23.8" LW UNchoked Polygon barrel(carbon sleeved)
-Neil Clague LDC
-Falcon M18+ FFP MOA 3-18x44 scope
-PEEK valve seat(.215)
-Bore size porting, with .165 area(oval) barrel port
-PEEK probe guide
-Modded HS cup for single screw adjustment in stock
-Heavier/slightly longer HS
-Mossy Oak Obsession shotgun camo wrap
-20fpe-50+fpe depending on tune/ammo
That basically sums up what I've done to it. I will probably do more to stiffen up the cylinder/barrel in the stock, but it is pretty rigid as it sits. I'm sure there's something else I haven't thought about yet too. Now, I just need some decent weather and time to do some more ammo testing. The NSA 18 and 21 grain slugs are know accurate in this barrel. I'm hoping the Griffin 23 or 24 grain will prove to be as well, and maybe the NSA 15.5 grain? That's my update at the moment, but I'm sure there's more to come :D Overall, I'm pleasantly surprised with how well the Turkenstein looks at the moment! Below are a few pictures I took, but it was almost dark. I also put a picture of the PEEK probe guide I installed in there.
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Wow. Just wow!!!
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The big tube actually looks better than OEM. Very nice!
Makes me contemplate things- that's for sure. The wealth of small-bore slugs means more ammo can be carried with less weight while keeping energy levels up but using less air than comparable energy for a larger caliber (at least that's what I'm thinking).
Makes me thing the next revolution will be using small-bores with decent size plenums and adjustable power- thinking externally adjustable regulators. Wanna reach out and go p-dawging at 120 yards with .177 or .22 slugs? Crank it up. Wanna poke hole in rats inside a dairy farm? Drop the power and switch to wadcutters.
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Wow. Just wow!!!
;D ;D ;D
The big tube actually looks better than OEM. Very nice!
Makes me contemplate things- that's for sure. The wealth of small-bore slugs means more ammo can be carried with less weight while keeping energy levels up but using less air than comparable energy for a larger caliber (at least that's what I'm thinking).
Makes me thing the next revolution will be using small-bores with decent size plenums and adjustable power- thinking externally adjustable regulators. Wanna reach out and go p-dawging at 120 yards with .177 or .22 slugs? Crank it up. Wanna poke hole in rats inside a dairy farm? Drop the power and switch to wadcutters.
Thanks! I think that 24" barrel makes that larger cylinder look better. The small bore definitely has some good attributes, and with that much power behind that .177 diameter slug, it can handle much larger critters than one may think. It will out penetrate my .22 that is tuned to 60 fpe. In other words, there aren't many noggins that it can't get through ;) Of course, it would be quite effective at low power with pellets for smaller stuff too.
The Turkenstein isn't currently regulated, but can be easily(and with a .30 cal XL plenum too). However, the power is externally adjustable with only a 4mm allen key or driver. I don't have to take anything apart, I just insert the allen through the rear of the stock and adjust. That is one of the main reasons I decided to do this to a Flashpup, because I knew I could modify the HS setup for easy adjustments with one tool and no disassembly. The only thing I have left is to make a second barrel band/support to make things extra rigid. It is a hunting gun first, and I can't have a gun that is easily knocked off zero. I'm still mulling how I want to accomplish that in my head...
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Looks really good! What is your O.A.L. I have to wonder why they did not use the same tube on all the wood and synthetic Flash models??? This thing with a regulator would be a beast!
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Looks really good! What is your O.A.L. I have to wonder why they did not use the same tube on all the wood and synthetic Flash models??? This thing with a regulator would be a beast!
Thanks! With that 7.5" LDC on the end it comes out to 39.5", so it isn't exactly short for a pup. When I take the LDC off, it will easily fit in a 36" case. It is better than the rifle was, which came out to 50" with the same barrel/LDC. I'm sure the reason Hatsan didn't use it on the Flash is, because it would have taken away from the original purpose of the gun. The Flash was meant to be light, compact, inexpensive, and easy to fill. I still like the regular Flash variants for that reason, but this build was meant to have more shots, shooting slugs at high power levels. I don't have a scale to weigh it, but I'm guessing it comes in around 7lbs without the scope.
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Fascinating!
I wonder how much I could get a Titanium air tube made for. I would like to stay at stock length or shorter maybe with a Donny Tanto and CF shroud. and still get some more air capacity if possible. Should be no problem filling to 250 bar and would be able to add a couple inches of length to the tube with the QE shroud gone.
I have an abundance of CF tubing laying around the shop from years of flying RC helicopters. Found some 1MM thick that is alloy reinforced internally on the ends to 2MMs. It is exactly the same OD as the QE shroud. I should be able to cut it to a length that will allow me to use the Moderator to tension the barrel and get reasonable support from the barrel band.
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Fascinating!
I wonder how much I could get a Titanium air tube made for. I would like to stay at stock length or shorter maybe with a Donny Tanto and CF shroud. and still get some more air capacity if possible. Should be no problem filling to 250 bar and would be able to add a couple inches of length to the tube with the QE shroud gone.
I have an abundance of CF tubing laying around the shop from years of flying RC helicopters. Found some 1MM thick that is alloy reinforced internally on the ends to 2MMs. It is exactly the same OD as the QE shroud. I should be able to cut it to a length that will allow me to use the Moderator to tension the barrel and get reasonable support from the barrel band.
I think you have the right idea in tensioning the barrel for sure. That is the one area that Hatsan got it right in using the QE shroud/nut to tension the barrel. You'll need 20mm OD to fit the barrel band good and tight. I don't know if having a titanium tube made would be cost prohibitive or not? I chose to use the BT cylinder, since it is a readily available part and not that expensive($99). I do know the valve can handle 250 bar, since it is the same valve used in the 250 bar Nova/Nova Star. I still may end up using some 20mm OD carbon myself to tension the barrel, before all is said and done...
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The Ti tube was an idea from the Huben which has a 5000 PSI fill. I found a web based supplier that has tubing and machine shop services but I don't have a DXF file I could send for a quote.
I do however have a friend that does oilfield machine work and they're always working on stuff like Ti and Inconel and Copper-Nickel (extreme strength with high corrosion resistance metals) that I'm going to inquire about it later today hopefully. Get an idea if I can do it for less than a couple hundred I'll consider it.
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Very cool, let us know what you find out!
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Looks really good! What is your O.A.L. I have to wonder why they did not use the same tube on all the wood and synthetic Flash models??? This thing with a regulator would be a beast!
Thanks! With that 7.5" LDC on the end it comes out to 39.5", so it isn't exactly short for a pup. When I take the LDC off, it will easily fit in a 36" case. It is better than the rifle was, which came out to 50" with the same barrel/LDC. I'm sure the reason Hatsan didn't use it on the Flash is, because it would have taken away from the original purpose of the gun. The Flash was meant to be light, compact, inexpensive, and easy to fill. I still like the regular Flash variants for that reason, but this build was meant to have more shots, shooting slugs at high power levels. I don't have a scale to weigh it, but I'm guessing it comes in around 7lbs without the scope.
I was meaning the thread size on the tubes. I think you sead the Flash syn and wood used a different thread, and the Woodpup and syn pup used different tubes? I kind of had a Synpup in my sights. I don't think the oal is bad at all esp. for transporting. Do you know the I.D. of the tube by chance? kind of wondering about a bottle adapter too.
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The Ti tube was an idea from the Huben which has a 5000 PSI fill. I found a web based supplier that has tubing and machine shop services but I don't have a DXF file I could send for a quote.
I do however have a friend that does oilfield machine work and they're always working on stuff like Ti and Inconel and Copper-Nickel (extreme strength with high corrosion resistance metals) that I'm going to inquire about it later today hopefully. Get an idea if I can do it for less than a couple hundred I'll consider it.
Just remember if the regulator fails you are putting full 5000 psi to valve and retaining screws.
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The Ti tube was an idea from the Huben which has a 5000 PSI fill. I found a web based supplier that has tubing and machine shop services but I don't have a DXF file I could send for a quote.
I do however have a friend that does oilfield machine work and they're always working on stuff like Ti and Inconel and Copper-Nickel (extreme strength with high corrosion resistance metals) that I'm going to inquire about it later today hopefully. Get an idea if I can do it for less than a couple hundred I'll consider it.
Just remember if the regulator fails you are putting full 5000 psi to valve and retaining screws.
I'm only looking to fill to 250bar and may use a Huma .30 cal reg so if it fails it would at most go to 3600 psi. I'd be willing to bet you could go 5000 psi now without blowing up the gun. Probably wouldn't function very well but usually any hazardous application like HPA should have at least a 2 to 1 safety factor design. Certainly not recommending going over Hatsan's 200 bar limit. But just like the Benjamin Bulldog which is rated to 200 bar but has been tested to 10,000psi without failure and shot at 300 bar as well, you could get away with more than 200 from a flash.
Come to think of it the 10,000 PSI test with the bulldog was done with an extended tank that was made of 7075 aluminum which is cheaper than Ti and much easier to machine Hmmmm.
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That is one strong .177!
The BT65 air tube is an awesome find. I am also dealing with locking down the rail lateral motion. You have confirmation that the QE provided more than just sound dampening.
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Looks really good! What is your O.A.L. I have to wonder why they did not use the same tube on all the wood and synthetic Flash models??? This thing with a regulator would be a beast!
Thanks! With that 7.5" LDC on the end it comes out to 39.5", so it isn't exactly short for a pup. When I take the LDC off, it will easily fit in a 36" case. It is better than the rifle was, which came out to 50" with the same barrel/LDC. I'm sure the reason Hatsan didn't use it on the Flash is, because it would have taken away from the original purpose of the gun. The Flash was meant to be light, compact, inexpensive, and easy to fill. I still like the regular Flash variants for that reason, but this build was meant to have more shots, shooting slugs at high power levels. I don't have a scale to weigh it, but I'm guessing it comes in around 7lbs without the scope.
I was meaning the thread size on the tubes. I think you sead the Flash syn and wood used a different thread, and the Woodpup and syn pup used different tubes? I kind of had a Synpup in my sights. I don't think the oal is bad at all esp. for transporting. Do you know the I.D. of the tube by chance? kind of wondering about a bottle adapter too.
My best guess is they wanted to keep the same air capacity, but use a shorter tube? I know on the SFP the front of the stock is closed, so the aluminum tube would be too long. Of course, you could open that up if you wanted to swap out the valve and go with the BT cylinder. I don't know what the threads are, but seems like I remember the ID being somewhere near 30 mm. The ID of the steel cylinder is definitely larger than the aluminum cylinder. As far as I remember, the steel cylinders Hatsan uses on their other guns(AT44/Bullboss/etc.) are actually smaller in diameter, so this may be a new diameter and thread(for Hatsan) used on the Flash series with the steel cylinder. Where there's a will, there's a way to do anything you feel like tackling ;)
That is one strong .177!
The BT65 air tube is an awesome find. I am also dealing with locking down the rail lateral motion. You have confirmation that the QE provided more than just sound dampening.
Yessir, she's cooking pretty good for a .177. I just got done re-enforcing that front rail mount with some tooling carbon I had floating around, and it definitely helped in that department. I'll post some pictures in a bit. But yeah, the QE tensioning the barrel did seem to be a good remedy to barrel movement. A remedy as far as the gun not getting knocked off zero as easily. I'm not saying I would rest the barrel on something and expect the POI to stay the same though :D
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I made that front rail/barrel band better :D I happened to have a piece of really thick(and stiff) tooling carbon laying around, so I decided to put it to use. First let me say, I don't recommend this to anyone not handy with a dremel, and not without a mask. I was wearing a mask, and I still have carbon boogers,lol! Anyway, I matched it to that front rail mount, did the outline on the carbon, and went nuts with the dremel. It turned out a pretty good match.
I secured it to the rail mount/barrel band with two M4 machine screws and one M3 machine screw at the bottom. It took very careful placement of the screws to avoid any clearance issues. I did have to dremel out the inside of the stock just a bit for the added thickness of the rail mount to clear. I used longer than needed screws, so I could put nuts on there to really cinch that carbon down. Turns out, I didn't have to use the nuts, because the screws have really good bite in the rail mount. I may add them later. I also added a section of balsa wood in the carved out section of the stock where the picatinny mount is, so the cylinder would rest on it and not be free floating as much. Finally, I drove my derlin insert inside the barrel band to secure the barrel nice and tight. It goes into the hole in the carbon as well, so very sturdy. Oh, and I cut a sliver from a piece of thin plastic tubing and pushed it in between the cylinder and rail mount(kind of like a very thin sleeve) to make the barrel/cylinder/mount even more rigid.
After it all was said and done, the whoe bit is much more sturdy with zero slop between the gun and stock now. The barrel flex is drastically reduced now. I also made a thin derlin insert(not pictured) that I can fit between the barrel and cylinder, if needed to deal with harmonics down the road. It fits nice and snug in there, and can be moved fore and aft for dampening purposes. I don't know that'll need it, but better to have it and not need it... Below are some pictures for reference, along with a few of the Turkenstein in it's natural environment(I got out the real camera for those) ;)
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Looks like it has all come together quite nicely . Great job!
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Great idea for producing the barrel band. Looks really good. I asked a pro once how they handled the dust from rotary cutting CF and he said they cut flat work with a 3 axis CNC table and plunge router and the table was in a tub so it could be flooded. All the cutting work was done submerged. Kept the tools cool as well since CF is about the most abrasive material out there to cut. They could stack up several sheets at a time for high volume work.
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Great idea for producing the barrel band. Looks really good. I asked a pro once how they handled the dust from rotary cutting CF and he said they cut flat work with a 3 axis CNC table and plunge router and the table was in a tub so it could be flooded. All the cutting work was done submerged. Kept the tools cool as well since CF is about the most abrasive material out there to cut. They could stack up several sheets at a time for high volume work.
There are certainly better ways to do it, than my way. I went to school for composites, which is why I happened to have a thick piece of tooling carbon floating aroundz(race car stuff). I don't mess with it much anymore, or have the resources I once had to work with it, so dremel it is for me,lol.
I ran out of time for testing today, so I hope to have a thorough report on what works with it by next weekend at the latest. I know for sure the barrel on it likes NSA 18/21 grain from when it was on my other gun. Assuming I haven't introduced any new issues, it should at least like some of the slugs. I will test it with NSA 15.5/18/21 grain slugs, followed by Griffin 23/24 grain flat base, and 24 grain cup base slugs. All of which do fit the magazines :D
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I really like the looks you have achieved. Hopefully all the work in this project of yours will result in a real shooter. Looking forward to read more of your exploits as this all comes to fruition. Some of your ideas may even work on modifications I am considering to my synthetic Flash QE. Being first and breaking trail is one thing, but learning from someone that has gone before seems a bit less risky.
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I really like the looks you have achieved. Hopefully all the work in this project of yours will result in a real shooter. Looking forward to read more of your exploits as this all comes to fruition. Some of your ideas may even work on modifications I am considering to my synthetic Flash QE. Being first and breaking trail is one thing, but learning from someone that has gone before seems a bit less risky.
Thanks! All of those tricks have been applied to my synthetic Flash as well(including the BT cylinder) ;) That is the gun this barrel was on, prior to the Flashpup. The regular Flash has a better barrel band, and is much less prone to POI shifts. The reason I "moved" this project over to the Flashpup was length more than anything. The regular Flash rifle is quite long with a 24" barrel :o
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Looks like it has all come together quite nicely . Great job!
Thanks man, I know you understand the PITA that is involved with these "special" projects,lol. I'm hoping it will like the 15.5 NSA's as much as it does the others, so I can run it on a lower power regulated house gun tune too :D
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Hey, are you running this beautiful new beast of your regulated? I know Huma makes a regulator for the Flash as I have one yet to be installed into my gun. It would be interesting to know how your new toy handles under all conditions (regulator pressures) and what pellets/ slugs are prefered at the various levels. Just thinking with the keyboard.
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Hey, are you running this beautiful new beast of your regulated? I know Huma makes a regulator for the Flash as I have one yet to be installed into my gun. It would be interesting to know how your new toy handles under all conditions (regulator pressures) and what pellets/ slugs are prefered at the various levels. Just thinking with the keyboard.
I'm not currently running a regulator on it, due to the high power testing I'm doing. A regulator is the wrong tool for the job, when you're shooting 24 grain .177 slugs at 925 fps as tune. The reg just can't make that power level, even with a big plenum. If it likes the 15.5 grain slugs at lower velocities, then I will give it a go with the regulator. I just want to wait until I can finish up my high power testing first. I can say the barrel(LW unchoked polygon) really likes the 18/21 grain NSA slugs, since I got to test them when the barrel was on my regular Flash. I haven't gotten the chance to test yet, since I put the barrel on this gun. I should be able to get that done by next weekend sometime at the latest.
The regulators do a great job on mid and lower power tunes for sure. I got over 50 shots at 15 fpe in .177 with the regulator, and over 30 in .22 at 30fpe, both with the factory air cylinder. At those power levels, a reg is a no brainer to me. The guns tend to do better without a regulator on the high power tunes though.
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I got a chance today to do some more testing, and the Turkenstein loves the NSA 15.5 slugs too! Time for some regulation now me thinks :D The bad news is it will not shoot the Griffin slugs to save it's life :( I still continues to key hole them. I don't know if it is the diameter, twist rate, or if the leade isn't deep enough for those little javelins, but they are a flat out no go. Oh well, it does like all the NSA's sol I can work with that. I'm gonna tension the barrel, and re-test, just to be sure. It likes the every weight of the NSA slugs even going well over 1000fps.
It was shooting a ragged hole with the 15.5s, and I just guessed on the HS when I turned it down to test. After I came in, I decided to see what speed they were shooting. I put a few over the chrony, and they were shooting 1040 fps,lol. I guess I needed to go another couple turns down on them :-[ I've got enough adjustment to get them as low as 850 fps, so I think I'm gonna see if I can do a regulated tune with them around 900 fps. It should get a pretty decent shot count with that tune, even if it is almost 28 fpe in .177. The Turkenstein breathes pretty well, so I'm gonna try it with a standard plenum, and not the XXXL plenum ;)
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This build is one of the most exciting and interesting I've seen since I joined the GTA, Donny. I know I'm not the only person excited by a high-energy .177 slug-gun.
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This build is one of the most exciting and interesting I've seen since I joined the GTA, Donny. I know I'm not the only person excited by a high-energy .177 slug-gun.
Thanks Peter :D It will be most exciting for me when I finish,lol. I'm working on tensioning the barrel with 20mm OD carbon fiber tube, and the clearances are TIGHT... I got the carbon tube finished a few minutes ago, and the bushings for the ends. I can already tell it will help a lot with overall flex and rigidity of the gun/barrel. My main goal is to have a gun I don't have to worry about knocking off zero very easily. I gotta get some more camo wrap to redo the barrel sleeve, and then I'll work on getting the reg installed and set properly.
I've got the power department covered, because the gun can darn near send the 21 grain NSA slugs super sonic if I wanted. Obviously, I won't be going for that. It will do a solid 20 shot tune with those around 970 fps un-regged, which I will try for a porker with at some point. I'm hoping I can manage a pretty good regulated tune with the 15.5 grain in the 900 fps range as well. I just have to play with set points and plenum sizes to see what works best. The weather will be junk the next two days, so that will give me time to finish tuning and put everything back together and get it back on a target by Sunday :) More to come!
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I put the reg in the Turkenstein today to see what kind of tune I could get with the 15.5 grain NSA slugs. I used the standard BT65 plenum on the reg, and not the XXL plenum. I set the regulator around 145 bar, which I figured would be higher than I need. I did that, because I wanted the flexibility to turn the HS up a little and shoot the 18 grain NSA slugs if I want. I was right about the bar needed, 145 is a bit too much.
It is coming off the reg around shot 41 or 42, followed by a bit of a spike until it drops down just below the tune around shot 57(as expected). With the current setup, the ES is bit high if I shoot it through 56 shots(4 magazines). With it as is, I got 56 shots averaging 906 fps(28fpe) and an ES of 39. If I stop at 3 magazines(42 shots) the average is 903 with a more tame ES of 22. The speed picks up into the mid/high 920s after 3 magazines. Still, it is quite usable with that extra magazine of shots off reg. I know the ES will go down once the gun itself smooths out some in the hammer channel and spring. All of this being said, I should be able to get a much tighter ES if I leave the reg where it is and tune it in the 925 fps range with the 15.5s, or in the 890-900 fps range with the 18 grainers.
I have no doubt I could still get 42 shots with a great ES tuned in the 29 fpe range with the 15.5 grain slugs, and still over 30 shots in the 32 fpe range with the 18 grain slugs. That isn't stellar efficiency, but it ain't bad at all for a .177 at these power levels :D I mean a regulated 30 fpe .177 is a serious hunter with great range and penetration! The little slugs buck the wind great, and penetrate quite well with all that weight behind that tiny diameter. Also, not a lot of holdover for the weight. If the accuracy holds up after I get done tensioning the barrel this weeked, the Turkenstein will be one heck of a sweet little pup me thinks ;)
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Yes it is. I was so dang happy when I finally found a barrel that likes the .177 slugs! I don't mean does okay, but actually shoots really well with them. The combo of power/low noise/long range effectiveness/penetration offered by this combo is pretty awesome in my book.
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Have you tried the H&N piledrivers in that barrel?
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No, I haven't, not in this unchoked polygon. I have tried them in a choked polygon with no luck. I gave up on them a long time ago, because they were so inconsistent in size and accuracy. I imagine this barrel may do okay with them, but the pile drivers have always been kind of a one trick pony with not much benefit for me. I'll take the 21 grain NSA slugs over them all day long ;) I spoke with Nick at NSA a few days ago, and he has the tooling on the way to run the .177 slugs on the high speed machine, which means the prices will get much better! That is great news, as those little suckers are expensive at the moment...
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Welp, tensioning the barrel is gonna have to wait a few days. The carbon tube I was going to use isn't straight >:( I finally figured that out after fighting trying to get it to fit correctly... This dummy should have realized that sooner :-[ At least I know I have good regged tune waiting for it when I do get finished.
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That's kinda sad. I'd be sorely tempted to play with the new toy regardless.
What this is proving more than anything is the .177 NSA slugs are no joke with the right barrel- but I then k we all know this already :) Make me sorely reconsider keeping my Varmint and getting an unchoked barrel. I also think the pellet manufacturers should re-evaluate their offerings.
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Sounds like you have an all day sucker with that kind of shot count!
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That's kinda sad. I'd be sorely tempted to play with the new toy regardless.
What this is proving more than anything is the .177 NSA slugs are no joke with the right barrel- but I then k we all know this already :) Make me sorely reconsider keeping my Varmint and getting an unchoked barrel. I also think the pellet manufacturers should re-evaluate their offerings.
I may be playing with it anyway, because I discovered something a few minutes ago that really makes me feel like a dummy, sort of. I may not tension this barrel after all. As it showed in the pictures I posted, I had wrapped the barrel in a vinyl camo wrap. Well, I pulled that off in preparation for tensioning the barrel. After I found out the CF tube I was going use was warped, I was sitting there playing with a bushing I had made to fit the barrel snug through the front rail support/barrel band. This bushing was one from another gun that wasn't wrapped. I stuck it in there just goofing around, and the barrel got super stiff?! It turns out the wrap on the barrel was allowing the barrel to flex around more inside that bushing, making it not as stiff as I expected. That soft vinyl wrap was squishing inside the bushing :-[ Now, without the wrap in on the barrel, it is pretty darn stiff! Moral of the story, don't put camo wrap on a barrel where it will be supported,lol. I'm going make a little longer/tighter fitting bushing, and then probably apply the wrap around the part of the barrel that doesn't fit through that rail. I think that will do the trick.
Yes, the little slugs are awesome, provided you can find a barrel to shoot them! They really do bring the .177 up a notch in ability. What you give up in outright fpe over a larger caliber, is gained back in BC/penetration/expansion/energy maintained to the target.
Sounds like you have an all day sucker with that kind of shot count!
Very true! The weight is still very good too, so it won't tire you out carrying it around :) Oh, and the noise... It is deceptively quiet in .177!
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More shenanigans are going on with the barrel. I'm pretty sure I'm fighting harmonics with it at this point. Even though the barrel is quite secure and solid, my groups are a bit larger than I know the barrel is capable of. I made a little spacer that fits semi-snug between the barrel and air cylinder, just to absorb fine vibrations. It is held in place by slight pressure between the barrel and cylinder, nothing else. Just moving the little spacer 3" fore or aft can cut the group sizes in half. That little spacer is the difference between hitting most of the shots in a 1/2" circle or literally being able to shoot pellet sized groups. I never saw these issues when the barrel was on the regular Flash, and think it is simply because the barrel support was in a different place on that gun, so the harmonics were different. The barrel is actually more rigid on this gun...
Obviously, a spacer isn't a solution I'm happy with, if I'm gonna be wandering around hunting with it. My next move is going to be going back to tensioning the barrel(with a straight piece of CF tubing). It won't be simply a matter of tensioning it though. I'm going to add some snug fitting derlin "bushings" inside that tensioned carbon about 6" apart after the front rail support just to change the harmonics a bit. Hopefully, that will get me a permanent solution here. The folks I ordered the CF tubing from are sending me another for free, since the one I recieved was warped. We'll see what I come up with when I get some more CF in my hands to play with.
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I had another go at tensioning the barrel with some CF tube that is straight. I think I've knocked out the harmonics issues, and it is shooting pretty good with the 15.5 grain NSA slugs regulated. It isn't quite as good as I'd like, but that has more to do with speed. All of the NSA slugs shoot great out of this barrel at 950+ fps. They are just decent in the 900-925 fps range. I mean, it is sub dime size all day long at 30 yards at the current tune, which is fine for minute of pest in my yard. I need to test it at longer ranges to see if they level out or not at this speed. At higher speeds, they are one hole accurate, but I don't want to be shooting slugs at 975-1000 fps around my house. They would just fly through smaller critters at that speed, and then I'd have to worry a bit more about where they are going after the shot... The high speed tunes will be used on not so small critters at some point though ;)
Speaking of, I need to try out some of the JSB Beast 16.2 grain with this current tune. They actually shoot a little faster than the NSAs do. I guess that is because they are sealing up better. I wish somebody made a .177 HP pellet that was heavier than 10 grains. I do need to test the Turkenstein out at lower power levels with other pellets at some point though. I imagine the shot count would be nuts!
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That's interesting. The NSAs I've shot were all traveling below 900FPS, and groupings were right around 1". Perhaps I need to revisit them using the RallyBoss.
Also interesting stuff about the sleeving. I ordered a Clague LDC, so I might be taking off the shroud of my stock Boss and attaching the Clague straight to the barrel. I'd imagine some sleeving will be needing prevent flex.
It also looks like I'll need to play around with mounting points of barrel bands, too.
Oh...and on a related note, I passed on a refurb .22 Flash. Took every ounce of restraint I could muster, but I did it.
For now. ;D
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That's interesting. The NSAs I've shot were all traveling below 900FPS, and groupings were right around 1". Perhaps I need to revisit them using the RallyBoss.
Also interesting stuff about the sleeving. I ordered a Clague LDC, so I might be taking off the shroud of my stock Boss and attaching the Clague straight to the barrel. I'd imagine some sleeving will be needing prevent flex.
It also looks like I'll need to play around with mounting points of barrel bands, too.
Oh...and on a related note, I passed on a refurb .22 Flash. Took every ounce of restraint I could muster, but I did it.
For now. ;D
You should wait a bit longer on the Flash anyway. They are coming out with a side lever version of the synthetic flashpup very soon. I got the email about it from Hatsan, but it isn't in stock yet. In all of my testing, the polygon barrels tend to like speed in most cases, fwiw. Mr. Clague's LDCs are top notch in my experience. The Turkenstein is wearing one after all :D I don't know if you'll need to play around with the barrel bands on the BB. It has a thicker barrel than the Turkenstein does. If you sleeve it with 20mm OD CF, you should be fine. Or you could just make an insert that holds the barrel tight in the barrel support too. Your BB is much less finicky about the barrel than the Flashpups are when you remove the QE.
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Oh for the love of pete. Seriously? :o Now a forward side lever Flashpup...I'm on board with that! Lol...its almost like I'm a little Hatsan fanboy. ;D I hope they make it forward side lever.
Thanks for the tip on the barrel. I wonder if it'd be worth it to crank the speed up a little more. I think I saw something like 1021 at one point with the 28gr slugs. Maybe I'll move up to a 30-something and keep the speed at 970ish.
I don't know why, but these Bullbosses just seem find a place with me. I enjoy them.
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Oh for the love of pete. Seriously? :o Now a forward side lever Flashpup...I'm on board with that! Lol...its almost like I'm a little Hatsan fanboy. ;D I hope they make it forward side lever.
Thanks for the tip on the barrel. I wonder if it'd be worth it to crank the speed up a little more. I think I saw something like 1021 at one point with the 28gr slugs. Maybe I'll move up to a 30-something and keep the speed at 970ish.
I don't know why, but these Bullbosses just seem find a place with me. I enjoy them.
It is a rear side lever, not forward, unfortunately. If the gun is shooting good at where you have it, I'd leave it alone man. If you want more speed, go with a lighter slug would be my thoughts. That thing is a little beast where it is set already,lol.
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I made a change to the barrel band set up on the Turkenstein. I used a BT65/Flash barrel band with the screw section lopped off to secure the barrel at the end of the air cylinder. That bad boy ain't moving at all now :D I finally got a chance to stretch it's legs today as well! It did outstanding with the regulated tune and the 18 grain NSA slugs. I guessed on a HS adjustment, but they were probably shooting around 880-900fps, and I was getting 42 shots before a refill was needed.
The gun was shooting pieces of gravel off the top of a gate at 110 yards with ease. I also stretched it out farther, and was hitting an aspirin bottle at 165 yards :o I hit it 3 times, and stopped, because I didn't want to walk down there and set it back up a anymore. A can at 150 yards would be very high percentage shot. I'm pretty darn happy with the Turkenstein after today. I feel like I finally built the .177 slug shooter I've been wanting to build for a year or two now. Having a .177 that can RELIABLY make shots at those ranges is pretty awesome. As for energy, those little slugs hold engery better than one would expect at those distances. At 150 yards, it was still doing a clean pass through on a water bottle full of water, so that will still take out critters at that distance. Next time I go out, I may have to try it unregulated with a full head of steam and 21 grain NSA slugs. I'm thinking 200 yards may be doable on some evil cans and bottles :D :D
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150 yds with a .177 is impressive! I've got a .177 Bullboss that's been collecting dust, time to liven it up.
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150 yds with a .177 is impressive! I've got a .177 Bullboss that's been collecting dust, time to liven it up.
Those .177 slugs are awesome, if you can get a barrel that likes them! This unchoked polygon barrel is the third barrel I've tried with them, and the first one that really liked then. The Bullboss shouldn't have a problem getting decent speed out of them. What was great is I didn't have shoot them super fast to get accuracy from them. They do shoot even better out of this barrel around 1000 fps though.
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I did a little more shooting with the .177 slug gun today, but this time I focused on the NSA 15.5 grain. I settled on a tune 935fps. I'm happy to report that the 15.5 grain do as well at distance as the 18 grain slugs do :D I was able to hit a can at 150 yards 5 shots in a row, and yes, the aspirin bottle at 165 was also a victim of the little bitty slugs,lol. As a matter of fact, I managed my longest airgun hit ever on a target at 175 yards(lasered) with the 15.5 NSAs. I don't have any pictures, but there were two witnesses. In case you're wondering, that was with a 26 MOA dead center holdover, haha!
Keep in mind all this was regulated and nowhere near what the gun is capable of power wise. After today, I'm even more convinced that I can make a 200 yard shot, unregulated with some more speed behind the slugs. That is especially true for the 18 or 21 grain cruising around 1000 fps. Next time I make it to the range, I will pull the reg and up the juice so I can test that theory. I could probably do it with the gun where it is currently tuned, but I'd probably have dial that one in, and I don't like to dial in shots(because I'll forget I did it later and miss :-[ ). Right now, I'm just loving me some tiny little bullets!
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Hey Donny!
Great results with the NSA slugs! What twist rate does that LW poly barrel have? 17.7"?
Thank you!
Taso
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Hey Donny!
Great results with the NSA slugs! What twist rate does that LW poly barrel have? 17.7"?
Thank you!
Taso
I don't know how I forgot to reply, sorry about that :D Yes, it is the standard 1:17.7 twist. It seems to do best at higher speeds with this twist. The slugs shooting at slower speeds are dang accurate, but don't settle down until around 50 yards, and they are money at 100 yards. If I kick the speed up to 950-970 depending on the slug, they are settled down at 30 yards ;) Those barrels you have will probably behave much better at slower speeds too I'd think! Have you got one mounted to a gun yet?
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Thanks Donny!
Yes. I have one mounted in a Daystate Airwolf with a Heliboard Xtreme so that I could easily adjust the velocities on the fly.
The problem is that I haven't found a place to shoot 100 yards and beyond local to where I live. :-[
Taso
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Thanks Donny!
Yes. I have one mounted in a Daystate Airwolf with a Heliboard Xtreme so that I could easily adjust the velocities on the fly.
The problem is that I haven't found a place to shoot 100 yards and beyond local to where I live. :-[
Taso
Oh man, that should be an AWESOME setup right there! Have you shot it at shorter distance, and what kind of speed are you getting out of it and which weights? I've been wanting to hear about your barrel ever since you said you where getting them made :D
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Donny nice "figure it out " on this one … I know you were thinking it might work before … glad to hear the results that it works ;D ;D ;D ;D ….
Ok now I just wonder if I can put the bt65 air tube on the Vectis lever action ?... it states that it has the aluminum tube on the Hatsan web site ,another question if it works is the length ,and weight amount of the air tube …
I have the bt65 carnivore .30,and gladius .25 with the same air tube , I need to do some measuring ,and see what this adds up to …
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I'm glad too, haha!
The cylinder will probably fit the Vectis, but your problem will be the short barrel. If I remember correctly, you'll need a barrel that is at least 22" long to clear the end of the cylinder. That is, if you want to have an LDC :(
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I'm glad too, haha!
The cylinder will probably fit the Vectis, but your problem will be the short barrel. If I remember correctly, you'll need a barrel that is at least 22" long to clear the end of the cylinder. That is, if you want to have an LDC :(
It looks like that air tube would be about even with the air stripper at the end of the Vectis ,and there is clearance issues with the under side of the air stripper … so yep ! a new barrel/LDC ! I don't think I would go there since I am trying to keep it light/cheap ,and I got a bunch of long barrel guns in .25 's any way ….
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I'm glad too, haha!
The cylinder will probably fit the Vectis, but your problem will be the short barrel. If I remember correctly, you'll need a barrel that is at least 22" long to clear the end of the cylinder. That is, if you want to have an LDC :(
It looks like that air tube would be about even with the air stripper at the end of the Vectis ,and there is clearance issues with the under side of the air stripper … so yep ! a new barrel/LDC ! I don't think I would go there since I am trying to keep it light/cheap ,and I got a bunch of long barrel guns in .25 's any way ….
This is why I built this gun as a pup from the start, because I knew I wanted a longer barrel to make the power, and I'm not that keen on a 50" rifle ;) I totally agree with you.
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I'm glad too, haha!
The cylinder will probably fit the Vectis, but your problem will be the short barrel. If I remember correctly, you'll need a barrel that is at least 22" long to clear the end of the cylinder. That is, if you want to have an LDC :(
It looks like that air tube would be about even with the air stripper at the end of the Vectis ,and there is clearance issues with the under side of the air stripper … so yep ! a new barrel/LDC ! I don't think I would go there since I am trying to keep it light/cheap ,and I got a bunch of long barrel guns in .25 's any way ….
This is why I built this gun as a pup from the start, because I knew I wanted a longer barrel to make the power, and I'm not that keen on a 50" rifle ;) I totally agree with you.
Maybe at some point Hatsan will make a long version of the flashpup design , like they did with the gladius … ;) :o
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I will say, a longer barrel COMPLETELY changes the tuning options! The extra length really helps make the power easier, and stretches the strings a bit on the higher power tunes. On my SFP .22 with the 700mm liner barrel, I'm getting 20 shots around 53-54 fpe out of that little 165cc cylinder :o The Turkenstein isn't nearly as efficient with the 23.5" LW barrel, but most of that is due to the fact that I'm shooting .177 slugs. Those little buggers take some air to move! On the bright side, the Turkenstein is insanely quiet for a 30+fpe .177. The efficiency is better when I'm not running it regulated too.
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I will say, a longer barrel COMPLETELY changes the tuning options! The extra length really helps make the power easier, and stretches the strings a bit on the higher power tunes. On my SFP .22 with the 700mm liner barrel, I'm getting 20 shots around 53-54 fpe out of that little 165cc cylinder :o The Turkenstein isn't nearly as efficient with the 23.5" LW barrel, but most of that is due to the fact that I'm shooting .177 slugs. Those little buggers take some air to move! On the bright side, the Turkenstein is insanely quiet for a 30+fpe .177. The efficiency is better when I'm not running it regulated too.
Every time I get the option I go long barrel … like with the XP Ranger .45 I just couldn't resist ;D..and had Dan build his 36inch barrel with matching air tube set up , the air tube is special chromoly with the best wall consistent specs that comes from 1 company with a burst rate of 18,000 or so psi ...
I have had thoughts of running the gun at over 5000 psi with a higher pressure spring , right now I am pushing the .425 g flat nose about a 1 inch long piece of lead at around 900fps at 4300 psi ..
Now since the barrel is 36 inches long you get a long hard kick out of this gun when you fire it with the 425g , you have to use a strong hold on the gun to get the accurate shots the TJ barrel is capable of , some guys over in Europe use weights attached to the end of the air tube for better control :o
To be honest the real fun shooting /plinking with the gun is 140g smooth round ball that I cast on low power 3400psi at around 1200 fps teathered to a scba 88 tank ,so you can shoot like crazy ! …. so this gives a great example of how a longer barrel can deliver crazy power out of ,and air gun …. all be it a extreme example at 36inches …LOL .. :D ;).
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I will say, a longer barrel COMPLETELY changes the tuning options! The extra length really helps make the power easier, and stretches the strings a bit on the higher power tunes. On my SFP .22 with the 700mm liner barrel, I'm getting 20 shots around 53-54 fpe out of that little 165cc cylinder :o The Turkenstein isn't nearly as efficient with the 23.5" LW barrel, but most of that is due to the fact that I'm shooting .177 slugs. Those little buggers take some air to move! On the bright side, the Turkenstein is insanely quiet for a 30+fpe .177. The efficiency is better when I'm not running it regulated too.
Every time I get the option I go long barrel … like with the XP Ranger .45 I just couldn't resist ;D..and had Dan build his 36inch barrel with matching air tube set up , the air tube is special chromoly with the best wall consistent specs that comes from 1 company with a burst rate of 18,000 or so psi ...
I have had thoughts of running the gun at over 5000 psi with a higher pressure spring , right now I am pushing the .425 g flat nose about a 1 inch long piece of lead at around 900fps at 4300 psi ..
Now since the barrel is 36 inches long you get a long hard kick out of this gun when you fire it with the 425g , you have to use a strong hold on the gun to get the accurate shots the TJ barrel is capable of , some guys over in Europe use weights attached to the end of the air tube for better control :o
To be honest the real fun shooting /plinking with the gun is 140g smooth round ball that I cast on low power 3400psi at around 1200 fps teathered to a scba 88 tank ,so you can shoot like crazy ! …. so this gives a great example of how a longer barrel can deliver crazy power out of ,and air gun …. all be it a extreme example at 36inches …LOL .. :D ;).
Nice! You're playing with bigger chunks of lead than I am, haha. That barrel is longer than my whole gun! The same principals apply though. The longer barrels do give you a lot more options on tuning for sure. I have to stick to the smaller calibers where I am, otherwise I'd only be able to shoot them somewhere else. I mean, I like shooting at my house, but the large calibers just wouldn't be safe to shoot at home.
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Thanks Donny!
Yes. I have one mounted in a Daystate Airwolf with a Heliboard Xtreme so that I could easily adjust the velocities on the fly.
The problem is that I haven't found a place to shoot 100 yards and beyond local to where I live. :-[
Taso
Taso, I was thinking... You should just ship that Daystate to me, so I can test it for you :D
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I got a couple more pictures of the Turkenstein today with it's new Bushnell Nitro 5-20x44 FFP mounted :D These pictures also show the extra barrel band I added at the end of the cylinder to make it super rigid. It is a BT65 barrel band with the screw mount on the bottom chopped off. It has two smooth faced grub screws in the band to keep it fixed on the cylinder with NO movement.
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Looks solid.
That band is an excellent addition, both aesthetically and structural.
Nice!
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Thanks Donny!
Yes. I have one mounted in a Daystate Airwolf with a Heliboard Xtreme so that I could easily adjust the velocities on the fly.
The problem is that I haven't found a place to shoot 100 yards and beyond local to where I live. :-[
Taso
Taso, I was thinking... You should just ship that Daystate to me, so I can test it for you :D
Not a bad idea! We would get results faster. ;D
Taso
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Looks solid.
That band is an excellent addition, both aesthetically and structural.
Nice!
Thanks man! I did it strictly for structural reasons, but It does make things look more like they belong together I think. It makes the gun look like it came that way almost,haha.
Thanks Donny!
Yes. I have one mounted in a Daystate Airwolf with a Heliboard Xtreme so that I could easily adjust the velocities on the fly.
The problem is that I haven't found a place to shoot 100 yards and beyond local to where I live. :-[
Taso
Taso, I was thinking... You should just ship that Daystate to me, so I can test it for you :D
Not a bad idea! We would get results faster. ;D
Taso
You sure would get results, but shipping is sketchy nowadays. I may have problems getting it shipped back to you :D