GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Hunting Gate => Topic started by: MadDelver on December 02, 2019, 11:38:21 PM
-
Hello, new to the forum hence the newby question. If this has been hashed out before can someone direct me to a thread?
I'm looking for a good hunting rifle for small game that won't break the bank since I'm on a limited income. I have a survivalist/prepper attitude, so I want something simple to maintain and is durable. I like the simplicity of a spring piston, but have read they wear out due to spring compression over time. Multi pumps are recommended, but I know they can spook small game while being pumped, and because they take time, reduce your chance of a follow up shot. PCP from what I have seen are expensive and I would have to have one with a hand pump. I think I have settled on 22 as being the best round, being in between the 177 and 25 and rather available.
Are there any important points I'm failing to consider? Are there any good rifles out there for less than $200?
Roy
-
Bearing in mind your parameters of budget minded, small game capable, and "prepper friendly...
A QB78D will do you well down to about 70 degree temps.
But you are dependent on having Co2 cartridges on hand.
A decent pumper is not temp sensitive, bit requires several pumps per single shot.
A Benjamin Discovery has a operating pressure of only 2000 psi which is very do-able with a $50ish dollar hand pump and will give you about 30 good shots per air fill.
Hope this helps.
-
This is probably the best option for a pumper only needs 6 pumps to get small game has a magazine, basic construction/easy to repair, I have pumped these while a squirrel 15 yards away wondered what that clicking sound was, then he found out :o There is a LDC/ moderator sold on ebay from froggy that will quiet down the pop it does make on higher pump shots.
https://www.bakerairguns.com/product/seneca-dragonfly-multi-pump-pellet-rifle/ (https://www.bakerairguns.com/product/seneca-dragonfly-multi-pump-pellet-rifle/)
Another option would be a mid power spring break barrel like a Hatsan 95, springs can go for over 10.000 cycles before failing maybe more. springers are not as bad as people make them sound, though one has to practice the craft to stay sharp.
https://hatsanairgunsusa.com/product-category/closeouts/?orderby=price (https://hatsanairgunsusa.com/product-category/closeouts/?orderby=price)
About 250 would get you into pcp range with these sales.
-
This might be a good choice:
https://www.fieldsupply.com/rws-meisterschutze-177-cal-pro-compact-air-rifle-combo-refurb.html (https://www.fieldsupply.com/rws-meisterschutze-177-cal-pro-compact-air-rifle-combo-refurb.html)
Or here's a .22
https://www.fieldsupply.com/rws-model-34-p-22-cal-air-rifle-refurb.html (https://www.fieldsupply.com/rws-model-34-p-22-cal-air-rifle-refurb.html)
-
There's so many great guns out there to choose from it's unreal, the Disco is a good choice but it's only a single shot and right now is a good time to be shopping for a new one. I personally love a multishot myself but since getting into the pcp thing I've got pretty much everything that I need for filling a pcp.
Here's a dandy fox squirrel that I shot this morning at 50 yards with my Airmax Dominator.
-
Aspen ?..... a bit more of the bat than you probably want to spend but.......
-
Another option would be a mid power spring break barrel like a Hatsan 95, springs can go for over 10.000 cycles before failing maybe more. springers are not as bad as people make them sound, though one has to practice the craft to.
Now that you mention it, I heard of Slavia ZVP finally failing after 50 years of use. They never gave an estimate of how many times it was shot, but the potential is staggering. It also occured to me that I could just keep extra springs in storage anticipating possible failure. Either way, 10,000 shots is a lot.
-
Hi Roy !
Most PCP's are easier to hunt with and PCP's are easier to shoot well.
PCP's are more Powerful. more Accurate and will give you a Longer Range.
Many PCP's have Magazines and will give you a Quick Second Shot.
PCP's are capable Larger Calibers for Large Game.
Multi Pumps are great guns to hunt with too....I just recently sold a 20 cal. Sheridan Silver Streak and it was a nice rifle
That being said...here are the rifles that I hunt Small Game with.
They are break barrel rifles. My guns are Harder to shoot Accurately with.
They are a lot like learning to shoot a Recurve Bow and some folks never never get the hang of it.
My rifles either have gas ram's or they have spring powered pistons.
I have spent about $370 for all of my rifles..... combined.
My rifles are simple, self contained and dependable. They can take a lot of punishment and still function well.
They have held up to Very Sever Harsh Environments & Rugged Backcountry Conditions with Extreme Cold, Snow and Ice.
I am a hunter and not much of a target shooter and these are what I use to hunt with.
25 cal. Hatsan 125 TH Spring Piston
22 cal. Hatsan 125 Spring Piston (Walther Talon Magnum) *A Gift From SteveP-52*
22 cal. Crosman Summit Ranger NP2 Gas Piston
22 cal. Hatsan Edge Vortex Gas Piston
117 cal. Hatsan Striker Vortex Gas Piston
-
Wow, thank you for the responses so far. One thing I realized is I don't need just one, I can have multiple air guns, imagine that. I'm a bit slow sometimes. So my game plan is to buy a NP now, then save my pennies for a nice PCP and multi-pump down the road.
I also did some research on NPs off and on during the night(my sleep is often disturbed several times during the night by nightmares due to PTSD). I was under the mistaken assumption they were unreliable and would leak a lot. According to my research they are at least twice as reliable as Spring Pistons, with several other advantages.
Local Walmart has some Ruger 22cal NPs, what's everyone's opinion on Ruger. I'm also considering a crosman(Benjamin) NP2. Thoughts?
-
I have a crossman F4 at Walmart about a year ago and can highly recommend it. Very accurate, built tough and simple to operate. Save up some cash, watch the sales and get an aspen/ nova freedom.
-
I have a few rugers, and also Crosman NP's, I prefer the Fit and finish, triggers and shot cycles/ accuracy of the Rugers out of the box performance, from my experience.
Though Hatsan is my prefered brand, despite what many may say.
-
Im a big fan of the np2/npelite. Crosman has a sale on the .22 wood stock for 96.xx
-
This might sound crazy, but I would recommend a Daisy 880. Purchase a couple of reseal kits and a spare pump handle directly from Daisy. Top it with an inexpensive, lightweight 4x32 scope. Tape mod the barrel if needed, fill in the dish on the piston, and take out the pump retaining spring. It is hard to find a lighter rig to carry in the woods. You'll have less than $100 in the whole setup and parts to keep it running strong for years.
Plenty of power and accuracy for squirrel and rabbit hunting. All of the 880s I've tested shoot RWS Superdomes well. Loaded with 10.5 grain Crosman dome pellets, it has enough juice to dispatch larger animals like groundhogs, possums, and coons in a live trap.
In 2017/2018, between small game hunting with my 880, trapping, and fishing, my family of 4 bought almost no meat from the store. We combined that with foraging for mushrooms and plants. Food and entertainment all in one!
-
I hunt small game fairly often and have tried most everything in the world of airguns. Pumpers, springers and PCPs.......everything from low cost options (Gamo, Daisy 880) to high cost PCPs (Taipan).
If I had to pick one gun to cover all of my needs, it would be a .177 Weihrauch springer shooting at between 11fpe and 13fpe. The hw95, hw97k and hw50s are all excellent options and are very accurate out to 50 yards. .177 pellets are cheap and plentiful and available in sizes from 7gr up to 13gr. They deliver plenty of energy to take small game out to 50 yards.
Any of these HW spring guns should give you 5,000+ shots on the factory spring and replacement springs cost about $15.
Good luck choosing.
R
-
Im a big fan of the np2/npelite. Crosman has a sale on the .22 wood stock for 96.xx
That would have been perfect, but it looks like I just missed the sale, they are out of the 22.
-
if you're interested in PCP ..... a .22 or .25 gauntlet can be had for $243 at sportsman guide and a chinese hand pump can be had for $40 on amazon and other places , i got mine from wally world . i'm 58 with a replaced knee , replaced hip and back issues and i use the cheap yosoo/hivbee pump . so for under $300 you can have a LOT more power with farther killing power , faster follow up shots and zero recoil typically resulting in better accuracy . the .25's have barrel bands ;)
https://www.sportsmansguide.com/productlist?k=umarex+gauntlet (https://www.sportsmansguide.com/productlist?k=umarex+gauntlet)
https://www.walmart.com/search/?grid=true&page=1&query=PCP+hand+pump&sort=price_low (https://www.walmart.com/search/?grid=true&page=1&query=PCP+hand+pump&sort=price_low)
-
I had several Crosman/Benjamin NPs and NP2,.......very, very happy with all of them.
-
You might look into the used Airguns also. Many members here will
Part with a gun, do your research and purchase a good gun from the start. One that will
Last and be low maintenance. If you consider a spring piston gun get the best you can afford. The Aspen Is a great hunting gun with an on board pump. Look at the Discovery.22 with pump combo. Affordable and great gun, I own two that my grandsons keep at their home. Many options.
Good luck My Brother
-
Extreme 475, I've browsed the for sale stuff and found nothing. Was kind of hoping to find a used PCP because thats the only way I could afford one right now.
-
https://www.fieldsupply.com/airguns/crosman-f4-classic-nitro-piston-177-cal-air-rifle-combo-refurb.html (https://www.fieldsupply.com/airguns/crosman-f4-classic-nitro-piston-177-cal-air-rifle-combo-refurb.html)
Here is a good deal on NP that you can modify the trigger very easily to make it a pretty good gun. I've got one and it has good accuracy but with these Crosman and cheap break barrels you cant shoot it off a rest or anything solid. You have to improvise with a double layered ballon or soft pillow or use the "artillery hold".
For a cheap PCP I'd say a QB chief if you can find the first version for about $150. Or a Guantlet:
https://www.fieldsupply.com/airguns/umarex-gauntlet-22-cal-air-rifle-black-refurb.html (https://www.fieldsupply.com/airguns/umarex-gauntlet-22-cal-air-rifle-black-refurb.html)
A QB 79 to hpa conversion would also be a great choice. See here:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=49943.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=49943.0)
The last 3 have about the same trigger and it is pretty good when adjusted.
However, I'd wait until one pops up in classifieds or bargain gate cause you'll kick yourself later for buying retail if you do.
-
Look for a used RWS 34. They have been around a long time for a reason. If you are a prepper, you can stash a few seals and a couple springs and be set for life. There is one on the airgun nation forum with a tune and scope for $250 now.
-
I love my Diana 34 .177, I love my Nova Freedom .22, I love my Daisy 880 .177. I love many of the guns I have for many reasons.
For what you want, I believe that the Crosman Summit Ranger would be tough to beat at this price, especially if you order on Friday and get free shipping.
Mine is powerful, extremely accurate, very easy to shoot, lightweight, durable, easy to cock.
https://www.crosman.com/holiday-2019/airguns/summit-ranger-np2-22 (https://www.crosman.com/holiday-2019/airguns/summit-ranger-np2-22)
My first thought was the Freedom, which would be a great gun for your needs, but I thing the SR would be better for you.
Ray
-
Lots of good suggestions already
You can also post a "wanted to buy" ad in the classifieds here.
It all really comes down to 2 things
1 - what your REALISTIC budget is.
That is what will help you determine what is available to fit your needs.
2 - what order of your listed parameters is most important, for being 100% self sufficient or what level of reliance you can accept for required support equipment.
I.e. a Springer vs Pumper vs Co2 vs PCP.
-
Hi Roy
Good Luck on your selection of airgun !
Best Wishes - Tom
-
I'm sort of close to the OP, perhaps he can travel up by me and browse my selection ? 45 guns to play with at least ;)
-
https://www.airgundepot.com/browning-leverage.html (https://www.airgundepot.com/browning-leverage.html)
you said your a prepper,so I would consider something that would work when there is no electric,and get the job done,the above would work,is within your budget,,myself were I a prepper my choice would be a 22 cal benjamin pumper,or a sheridan 20 cal both with open sights,or https://www.airgundepot.com/seneca-aspen-air-rifle.html (https://www.airgundepot.com/seneca-aspen-air-rifle.html) [a 25 cal aspen would be all I would need, and i would stock up on pellets, 😎)
-
Well, I jumped. An old Navy buddy(we saw combat together) and I were in Walmart, and while I know I could have gotten a better deal, you may know how it is when your friend is looking at guns with you. Well, it is mostly my fault, I have been telling him about my research into hunting with air.
I bought the Ruger Impact Max Elite, it has all the features I wanted. My buddy got the Ruger Air Hawk Elite 2, opting for speed and he has a pistol that shoots 177. It amazed me how quiet my rifle is next to his, those sound dampening chambers work wonders. From a survivalist/prepper stand point, it would be nice if his was quieter.
Now we wait for deer season to end so it is safer in the woods and we aren't ruining someone elses deer hunt.
Thank you for all the responses, I never had so many respond so quickly in a forum before. You all are awesome. In a few months I may be looking for a PCP, so keep the advice coming.
-
Oh, and pellet optimization! Should I start a new thread or can it be continued here? I'm primarily interested in choosing the best pellet design for my and my buddies rifles to get the cleanest kill. I have read that one brands manufacturing is inconsistent throwing accuracy out the window.............
Before I get carried away, new thread or continue here?
-
In ,177 10.xx gr domed pellets in .22 14.xx - 16xx gr IMO brand Crosman or H@N and JSB from my findings.
-
Oh, and pellet optimization! Should I start a new thread or can it be continued here? I'm primarily interested in choosing the best pellet design for my and my buddies rifles to get the cleanest kill. I have read that one brands manufacturing is inconsistent throwing accuracy out the window.............
Before I get carried away, new thread or continue here?
Keep going here. If the moderators want it moved they will move to to the gate that they think is best.
You are going to have to match the right pellet to your individual gun.
Get a sample pack from straight shooters and "have at it" to see what shoots the best in your gun. That is a cheap way to get started.
It's part of the journey with your new rifle.
Your are eventually going to wind up with... a whole lot of pellets.
Best Wishes - Tom
-
But Tom! Can't we spend hours, even days, discussing the pros and cons of different pellet designs, ultimately coming to no conclusive consensus? ;D
Seriously though, I did not know such sampler packs even existed, thats a rather good idea! To do it right one would need a closed range, cronograph, a bench rest you could secure your weapon to, and ballistic gel to gauge the kind of damage each type of round did. Being a nerd, I would gladly assist anyone doing this. Being a man of limited resources it will be awhile before I can do this myself.
At the very least I will get a sampler pack and see what gives me the best groupings, then maybe get some ballistic gel to see which of those does the most damage.
I also ask for people opinions and experiences to expand my own understanding. As a nerd, I'm a bit of a knowledge junky. Already because of this forum my awareness of this sport has expanded beyond what my narrow mind thought was possible. While bench testing might answer a good deal of my questions, nothing can replace experience in the field. My military experience taught me that.
Thanks, Roy
-
If you want a springer try getting a used/refurbished RWS 34 in .22 cal. If PCP then a Hatsan At 44-10 with a handpump.
-
#1. But Tom! Can't we spend hours, even days, discussing the pros and cons of different pellet designs, ultimately coming to no conclusive consensus? ;D
Seriously though, I did not know such sampler packs even existed, thats a rather good idea! To do it right one would need a closed range, cronograph, a bench rest you could secure your weapon to, and ballistic gel to gauge the kind of damage each type of round did. Being a nerd, I would gladly assist anyone doing this. Being a man of limited resources it will be awhile before I can do this myself.
At the very least I will get a sampler pack and see what gives me the best groupings, then maybe get some ballistic gel to see which of those does the most damage.
I also ask for people opinions and experiences to expand my own understanding. As a nerd, I'm a bit of a knowledge junky. Already because of this forum my awareness of this sport has expanded beyond what my narrow mind thought was possible. While bench testing might answer a good deal of my questions, nothing can replace experience in the field. My military experience taught me that.
Thanks, Roy
#1. Yes ...the discussion could be endless.
To start with....you want to zero in on accuracy of different pellets that are shot from your rifle. Different brands..different pellet weights...different pellet styles....and different ranges that the target is at..... all will result in different group size in your gun. Each gun is unique and will be different from the next gun.
I try to achieve a quarter sized ( 1 inch) shot grouping at whatever range I am shooting.
For me, 1 inch is good enough for hunting purposes but a tighter shot group is ....well ....it is always better (more desirable if you can get it)
Pellet accuracy in your gun is paramount. Everything else comes secondary.
After I establish a given pellets accuracy and at what range ....I then compare weights and pellet styles or types.
It is at this point where Balistic Gel would come in. There is information, in past posts, on how to make a "Homemade Ballistic Gel"... if you chose to do that.
Roy..we have a Gate...dedicated to past and present Veterans.
You may post your service there if you wish.
Here is the Link > https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=20872.msg1262047#msg1262047 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=20872.msg1262047#msg1262047)
Best Wishes - Tom
-
https://www.crosman.com/holiday-2019/airguns/summit-ranger-np2-22 (https://www.crosman.com/holiday-2019/airguns/summit-ranger-np2-22)
-
Hey Roy,
When it comes to airguns and small game, it has been said many times before, but it is worth repeating...
Shot placement (accuracy) is more important than devastating power. Even 50fpe is no good if it misses the target. ;)
-
Early on right after I really got into the pcp's I bought a Discovery for my first and it's still bone stock and loud. Another thing I started getting very inquisitive about was being able to cast my own pellets and I thank Bob Sterne and N.O.E. for Bob designing the fantastic molds and NOE building them. This prototype I'll show here really deserves a better scope than I have on it but it too also loves the .25 Hunter pellets that I cast.
I need to check out FDAR because rumor has it they've got news on products to come. Rumor has it new ones are going to be side levers and I want the .22.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48150870517_ced43d343a_h.jpg)
-
I just checked FDAR and the new Sentry's and Sentry Deluxe's will be available soon after Christmas. There won't be any .25 Sentry Deluxe's in this shipment.
http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=70 (http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=70)
when I viewed this on FDAR it appeared to be work in progress, according to this it's 2-3 days ???
-
For pellet testing, try the Crosman premiers from Wally world first. If they are accurate enough, great! It is nice to have a local supply of ammo. If they aren't up to the task, then try a few mid weight offerings from H & N and JSB. Stick with mostly round nose designs. Expansion is way over-hyped with air rifles, especially springers that have a fairly low to mid power capability. If you have to order pellets online, Pyramyd air does a buy 3 get 1 free deal that mostly offsets the shipping cost, and they package them better than most.
-
Don't even think of locking a spring gun down for accuracy testing. Spring guns need to be allowed to recoil and there will be a learning curve to shooting it accurately. Some like a firm hold, some need the artillery hold, and the point of impact will change depending on where you support the forend. Be prepared to take some time with it.
-
For pellet testing, try the Crosman premiers from Wally world first. If they are accurate enough, great! It is nice to have a local supply of ammo. If they aren't up to the task, then try a few mid weight offerings from H & N and JSB. Stick with mostly round nose designs. Expansion is way over-hyped with air rifles, especially springers that have a fairly low to mid power capability. If you have to order pellets online, Pyramyd air does a buy 3 get 1 free deal that mostly offsets the shipping cost, and they package them better than most.
+1
Even the Piranhas didn't seem too bad, until I tried the 10.5 Domed. The latter is what I use in all of my Freedoms. They are the most accurate I have found for those guns.
-
Tom, thanks for the heads up on the veterans gate, I responded.
-
Tom, thanks for the heads up on the veterans gate, I responded.
You are most welcome Roy.
I had seen in some of your posts that you were a Vet with combat time so I thought I would tell you about the Vet Gate that we have.
Some post their service and some don't...it's their choice either way.
Best Wishes - Tom
-
Congratulations on your Ruger Brother Roy!! I've read the the Ruger Spring Piston Airguns really like the RWS Super Dome pellets. But if she likes the very popular Crosman Pellets that much better!!! A lot of my springers love the CPHP 7.9 and 14.3 great hunting ammo. Try to find a hold your Springer likes and TRY to replicate it every shot. Doesn't hurt to take notes of hand placement, shoulder pressure and cheek placement. Once you do it enough it will come second nature. The notes come in handy as your collection grows. I promise it will GROW!!!! Lol MOST IMPORTANT IS TO HAVE FUN!!!!
Best of Luck My Brother
-
Thanks Extreme. My dad was an Army sniper and taught me to shoot, then consider my passion for historical weapons, and add on my 17 years of military service and I find I have few problems adapting to many weapon systems from a 5" gun on down. That being said, I also believe that no matter how good you are, another day at the range never hurts. I have little doubt my collection will grow.