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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Big Bore AirGun Gate => Topic started by: jkingsouthafrica on October 05, 2019, 03:02:23 PM

Title: MOAV 2020 944 Foot Pound Airforce Texan 457 cal
Post by: jkingsouthafrica on October 05, 2019, 03:02:23 PM
https://youtu.be/G3M--z6U3E8
Title: Re: MOAV 2020 944 Foot Pound Airforce Texan 457 cal
Post by: PCPhack on October 06, 2019, 04:22:05 PM
No point in this now with the new Airforce TX2 with carbon fiber bottle upgrade, especially at that high price. The game is up. You must lower prices and show production quality that is as good or better than Airforce, which I have not seen. Please show the machining quality and a teardown. Convince us why we would choose your product over the AF offering.
Title: Re: MOAV 2020 944 Foot Pound Airforce Texan 457 cal
Post by: Gippeto on October 06, 2019, 11:23:43 PM
No point in this now with the new Airforce TX2 with carbon fiber bottle upgrade, especially at that high price. The game is up. You must lower prices and show production quality that is as good or better than Airforce, which I have not seen. Please show the machining quality and a teardown. Convince us why we would choose your product over the AF offering.


 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

I don't think so Tim....

Al
Title: Re: MOAV 2020 944 Foot Pound Airforce Texan 457 cal
Post by: PCPhack on October 07, 2019, 12:33:50 AM
No point in this now with the new Airforce TX2 with carbon fiber bottle upgrade, especially at that high price. The game is up. You must lower prices and show production quality that is as good or better than Airforce, which I have not seen. Please show the machining quality and a teardown. Convince us why we would choose your product over the AF offering.


 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

I don't think so Tim....

Al

Is this a reference to something? Sorry, I don't get it.
Title: Re: MOAV 2020 944 Foot Pound Airforce Texan 457 cal
Post by: Gippeto on October 11, 2019, 03:00:56 PM

Is this a reference to something? Sorry, I don't get it.

Clearly. ::)

So let's put it into terms you might understand...

Telling someone who doesn't even work for you that they must work for less is utter BALOGNA. If you think his price is too high...exercise your freedom of choice and buy from the other guy...or try to negotiate in private. That's how a free market works...demand drives the price not your opinion. Why should he provide the other stuff (show machining and teardown)? Do other manufacturers provide this? Try and get that from Crosman/Air Arms/Steyr etc....

You're demanding information to which you've no reasonable right, and more so doing it in a demeaning manor.

Personally, in his shoes I would have just told you where to go...

Al

Title: Re: MOAV 2020 944 Foot Pound Airforce Texan 457 cal
Post by: jkingsouthafrica on October 11, 2019, 03:06:38 PM
No point in this now with the new Airforce TX2 with carbon fiber bottle upgrade, especially at that high price. The game is up. You must lower prices and show production quality that is as good or better than Airforce, which I have not seen. Please show the machining quality and a teardown. Convince us why we would choose your product over the AF offering.
well  considering the new AF TX2 Valve and carbon bottle cost $400    and you only get 750 FT/LBS   for $85 more you  are getting  944 FT/LBS   not to mention on shot 5 with a 525 gn Bullet with MOAV 202 you are still way north of 800 FT/Lb  With the    TX2   carbon   I wonder what the shot string looks like notice hardly anyone is putting out 5 shot string numbers     and there is a reason for that because they not so good  over 60 fps per shot drop in velocity between shots as the pressure drops off   
Title: Re: MOAV 2020 944 Foot Pound Airforce Texan 457 cal
Post by: jkingsouthafrica on October 11, 2019, 03:17:51 PM

Is this a reference to something? Sorry, I don't get it.

Clearly. ::)

So let's put it into terms you might understand...

Telling someone who doesn't even work for you that they must work for less is utter BALOGNA. If you think his price is too high...exercise your freedom of choice and buy from the other guy...or try to negotiate in private. That's how a free market works...demand drives the price not your opinion. Why should he provide the other stuff (show machining and teardown)? Do other manufacturers provide this? Try and get that from Crosman/Air Arms/Steyr etc....

You're demanding information to which you've no reasonable right, and more so doing it in a demeaning manor.

Personally, in his shoes I would have just told you where to go...

Al
Thank you but its quite common here on GTA  there are a few really great folks like yourself but a lot of guys here will rip apart anything  you try that is new   Funny how many of the negative folks have never ever actually created anything new in the Airgun World but will be the first to jump in 
But folks like that  motivate me every day  and AAO has a whole bunch of new products we are bringing out this year   MOAV 2020 been just one      T Rex 2020  for Gamo TC and Evanix Rex   and the New Power Upgrade Kits for the Sam Yang /Seneca Big Bores are all in production and on there way
Title: Re: MOAV 2020 944 Foot Pound Airforce Texan 457 cal
Post by: PCPhack on October 11, 2019, 03:33:54 PM

Is this a reference to something? Sorry, I don't get it.

Clearly. ::)

So let's put it into terms you might understand...

Telling someone who doesn't even work for you that they must work for less is utter BALOGNA. If you think his price is too high...exercise your freedom of choice and buy from the other guy...or try to negotiate in private. That's how a free market works...demand drives the price not your opinion. Why should he provide the other stuff (show machining and teardown)? Do other manufacturers provide this? Try and get that from Crosman/Air Arms/Steyr etc....

You're demanding information to which you've no reasonable right, and more so doing it in a demeaning manor.

Personally, in his shoes I would have just told you where to go...

Al

Hahahaha. You have me in stitches here. I can speak my opinion. Deal with it. What I do not like are outright lies about a valve and what it can do, and at a premium price at that. I have the proof, but then people will get all upset if I start posting "private" emails. It has been stated that it will get 8, yes 8 FULL POWER SHOTS. That is an outright lie, no matter how you slice it. I know better, but unfortunately there are those out there that will believe that nonsense. I am sure it can get 1 shot at a high value, or 2 of equal value, but 8??? That's just dishonest. I'm done here. Enjoy yourselves.
Title: Re: MOAV 2020 944 Foot Pound Airforce Texan 457 cal
Post by: PCPhack on October 11, 2019, 04:16:12 PM
Funny how you just resort to name calling. It really speaks volumes about your character.

As well I know all about both of the Texan valves. It is not rocket science, and for the record, I did not buy an TX2 valve, but rather it came already on a rifle I purchased. Anyone can source a CF bottle for 100 dollars to go on it and I do not believe your valve is worth the difference. It is a huge price, for a relatively simple valve. You may have one that flows more than a TX2, but I do not believe it is worth so much, I question the quality and safety of your product, and you have already told a lie about how many shots it can get.
Title: Re: MOAV 2020 944 Foot Pound Airforce Texan 457 cal
Post by: PCPhack on October 11, 2019, 04:36:58 PM
Also worth noting is that you obviously know nothing about me, since you think I have added nothing. I have only been around a few years, and yet have one of the longest threads here documenting Bulldog upgrades. Over the course of that time and through writing about improvement needs, seen at least 2 upgrades to that platform that did not exist before from some very good vendors (and was among the first to then test those upgrades). I have over a dozen aftermarket valves from OTHER more reputable suppliers for a few platforms, so I certainly give back financially where it is DESERVED. It doesn't matter to me if you know it, but as this thread is likely to be locked, I think it is important for any newcomers to recognize the truth. I do not wish you any ill will, but your claims were not true and on top of that you charge top dollar. This forum has given newcomers a lot, and I think they deserve that truth.
Title: Re: MOAV 2020 944 Foot Pound Airforce Texan 457 cal
Post by: jkingsouthafrica on October 11, 2019, 04:50:16 PM
Also worth noting is that you obviously know nothing about me, since you think I have added nothing. I have only been around a few years, and yet have one of the longest threads here documenting Bulldog upgrades. Over the course of that time and through writing about improvement needs, seen at least 2 upgrades to that platform that did not exist before from some very good vendors (and was among the first to then test those upgrades). I have over a dozen aftermarket valves from OTHER more reputable suppliers for a few platforms, so I certainly give back financially where it is DESERVED. It doesn't matter to me if you know it, but as this thread is likely to be locked, I think it is important for any newcomers to recognize the truth. I do not wish you any ill will, but your claims were not true and on top of that you charge top dollar. This forum has given newcomers a lot, and I think they deserve that truth.
To my point you yourself have created nothing  and as to full power shots no one has ever claimed 8 shots of the same power  but  8 shots powerful enough o kill  FYI   shot count is based on bullet weight with this valve heavier bullets use more Air    after 5 shots with a 525bn slug   2700 psi left in the bottle   5th shot at over 800+ foot pounds   3 remaining shots would all exceed 400 FT/LBs  or in other words full power shots by almost all big bore industry standards FYI  if we were to shoot 143 gn round ball shot count would be around 15 shots 
Title: Re: MOAV 2020 944 Foot Pound Airforce Texan 457 cal
Post by: PCPhack on October 11, 2019, 05:02:25 PM
You obviously have a problem reading. I have bankrolled plenty of NEW things being created, and because I have the means. In fact, specifying product requirements is what I do professionally as well. What I wrote stands, you have made misleading claims. Don't try to backpedal now and say, "oh those are full power because they still kill." Cop out.
Title: Re: MOAV 2020 944 Foot Pound Airforce Texan 457 cal
Post by: jkingsouthafrica on October 11, 2019, 05:15:53 PM
You obviously have a problem reading. I have bankrolled plenty of NEW things being created, and because I have the means. In fact, specifying product requirements is what I do professionally as well. What I wrote stands, you have made misleading claims. Don't try to backpedal now and say, "oh those are full power because they still kill." Cop out.
    I will say this Funny how you say how great the So called TX 2 Valve is so great  but  Its the exact same valve as the Original Airforce Texan Valve  all Airforce Did was to remove the Valve Return Spring and Valve Return Spring retainer plug all you got was the same valve  with some parts missing       You may bank roll things but what have you yourself created     Where are your ideas  to improve our sport   no instead you use other folks ideas because you cant come up with your own 
Title: Re: MOAV 2020 944 Foot Pound Airforce Texan 457 cal
Post by: jkingsouthafrica on October 11, 2019, 05:26:31 PM
You obviously have a problem reading. I have bankrolled plenty of NEW things being created, and because I have the means. In fact, specifying product requirements is what I do professionally as well. What I wrote stands, you have made misleading claims. Don't try to backpedal now and say, "oh those are full power because they still kill." Cop out.
so lets talk about shot count      lets look at  180 gn     https://youtu.be/y_KlUzsgYrE   I count more than 12 full power shots  all over 800 FPS
Title: Re: MOAV 2020 944 Foot Pound Airforce Texan 457 cal
Post by: rintafile on October 11, 2019, 05:30:28 PM
(https://img.aijaa.com/m/00567/14754294.jpg)
Title: Re: MOAV 2020 944 Foot Pound Airforce Texan 457 cal
Post by: jkingsouthafrica on October 11, 2019, 05:33:42 PM
(https://img.aijaa.com/m/00567/14754294.jpg)
Sexy Grandma     
Title: Re: MOAV 2020 944 Foot Pound Airforce Texan 457 cal
Post by: rintafile on October 11, 2019, 05:35:49 PM
Picture tells usually more than 1000 words....
Title: Re: MOAV 2020 944 Foot Pound Airforce Texan 457 cal
Post by: PCPhack on October 11, 2019, 05:37:01 PM
Lol. As said, you must have a reading problem, or have not read around much. Good luck with your valve. I wonder if you will release yet a 4th iteration next year for the next round.
Title: Re: MOAV 2020 944 Foot Pound Airforce Texan 457 cal
Post by: PCPhack on October 11, 2019, 05:38:44 PM
Picture tells usually more than 1000 words....

Yes, this! Also videos properly showing things claimed, or at least then clarifying what was really meant to the point that people don't need to call out misleading statements.
Title: Re: MOAV 2020 944 Foot Pound Airforce Texan 457 cal
Post by: lloyd-ss on October 11, 2019, 06:09:05 PM
For personal reasons, I haven't participated on the  forum for quite while now. I enjoyed the airgun R&D, working together with people, developing and improving and manufacturing aftermarket parts. And sharing with the community. Covering all that ground plus making meaningful videos and posts, takes a lot of time; more than most people realize. The cottage industry of aftermarket airgun parts doesn't really make much of a profit  for those that can stick with it and gather a decent following.  Good reputations are difficult to build but so easy to damage, whether deserved or not. Once the damage is done, it is too late.
I often think about coming back to the forum and actively participating again. But then I read something and get discouraged. I'd rather work in my shop and enjoy my grandkids. My machines and grandkids seldom present me with ill motivated challenges.

David (PCPhack), I know a lot of great people on this forum, but I know neither you nor Jeremy, nor the history behind the disagreement. And from the ongoing discussion(?) don't really care to know the history. Please remember that this is not a first amendment soap box, but rather a private forum which we have the privilege to participate in, and in return, we must, at the very least obey its rules.

Here is rule 13 of this forum:

13- Personal attacks on individual airgunners, dealers, tuners or other airgun forums are strictly forbidden. If you have issues with them, then they should be addressed one on one.  Do not create a “war zone” on your forum. Take your issues up directly with them and do not launder them here on the GTA forums.

Thank you for reading this.
Lloyd
 
Title: Re: MOAV 2020 944 Foot Pound Airforce Texan 457 cal
Post by: PCPhack on October 11, 2019, 06:32:04 PM
Thank you Lloyd. I appreciate someone to enforce the rules here. I never said anything about first amendment right though. I am questioned why he was claiming something that was not true. In this respect if the other party wants to just call others names rather than have conversation, then I would hope the moderators of this forum would consider that a personal attack. As I said, I have nothing against Jeremy, and don't know him from Adam. I am only commenting on what I have seen and read. I mean, he is actually pedalling a product here, and it would be nice to see real facts on it for the benefit of all.
Title: Re: MOAV 2020 944 Foot Pound Airforce Texan 457 cal
Post by: Gertrude on October 12, 2019, 12:42:00 AM
Subscribed.  >:(
Title: Re: MOAV 2020 944 Foot Pound Airforce Texan 457 cal
Post by: lloyd-ss on October 12, 2019, 01:31:56 AM
..........I question the quality and safety of your product, and you have already told a lie ..............
I apologize for repeating myself, but this is what rule 13 is about.
13- Personal attacks on individual airgunners, dealers, tuners or other airgun forums are strictly forbidden. If you have issues with them, then they should be addressed one on one.  Do not create a “war zone” on your forum. Take your issues up directly with them and do not launder them here on the GTA forums.
Title: Re: MOAV 2020 944 Foot Pound Airforce Texan 457 cal
Post by: jkingsouthafrica on October 12, 2019, 02:14:55 AM
Thank you Lloyd. I appreciate someone to enforce the rules here. I never said anything about first amendment right though. I am questioned why he was claiming something that was not true. In this respect if the other party wants to just call others names rather than have conversation, then I would hope the moderators of this forum would consider that a personal attack. As I said, I have nothing against Jeremy, and don't know him from Adam. I am only commenting on what I have seen and read. I mean, he is actually pedalling a product here, and it would be nice to see real facts on it for the benefit of all.
  I m all for someone looking for facts but you are basing your comments on speculation and no first hand experience    this is just but one of many items I  have designed and manufacture  at African Air Ordnance  From AIr Ripper  Muzzle Breaks  Airbeast Hybrid  Suppressors , Rifle Stocks , Upgrade Kits for Sam Yang Seneca 909 and the 500cc double tube   , Airforce Texan  Calibre Change Kits for the Texan Platform  Super Valves for 257.308.9mm.457 cal 50 cal   T Rex 2020 for  Evanix Rex ,Gamo Tc   Diablo Pellet molds ( FYI   AAO was the first company in the World to Make Diablo Pellets  Bigger than 9mm and up to .72 cal   and also make the molds for them )  Not to mention the Awesome Super Tex 510 cal  that exceeds 1000 Ft/Lbs  on HPA  . MOAV 2020 is not our first product  and defiantly not be our last    All OF THE ABOVE I BANK ROLLED MY SELF AND ALL THE ABOVE WERE MY IDEAS  NOT SOMEONE ELSES that I took and jumped on the band wagon [
You have the rite to your opinion   if you would like to see everything I have designed and made Simply go to www.africanairordnance.com (http://www.africanairordnance.com)    and feel free to share a link to everything You have designed and made for all of us to see
Title: Re: MOAV 2020 944 Foot Pound Airforce Texan 457 cal
Post by: PCPhack on October 12, 2019, 02:26:57 AM
I did not make my statements based on speculation.

For example, you have a very different definition  of "full power shots," than I do, and what I believe most people would. No valve at that power level, with that size tank, can shoot more than a few shots at full power. That is just physics. It certainly can not make 8 by any stretch of the imagination..
Title: Re: MOAV 2020 944 Foot Pound Airforce Texan 457 cal
Post by: Rocker1 on October 12, 2019, 04:38:25 AM
 Gentlemen this thread is over done period. This is not the kind of talk that this forum is about.  David