GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => American/U.S. Air Gun Gates => Topic started by: USAFANG6799 on August 26, 2019, 05:44:19 PM
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Thinking about getting back into break barrels and I'm looking into the SIG Sauer ASP20.
So I don't rule out any of it's nearest competitors which ones should I be comparing to the SIG?
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I suspect the closest guns of equivalent quality would be the Diana / RWS 34 or the Weihrauch HW 95. I believe the Sig has an edge in power over them but I don't think anybody has an EXACT equivalent.
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Yep it is rather difficult to compare the SIG to a nearest competitor. That's why I decided to ask the experts here.
Rather interesting and odd is it's lack of popularity among the springer/piston community. Going by what I see on PA site.
They have a good comparison chart that I tend to use.
Hope all is well Roadworthy.
I haven't even ridden my MC at all this year. I must be getting OLD ;D :(
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hey, Matt.
What about a Diana 340 N-Tec, or 350 N-Tec, or a Diana Mauser AM03 N-Tec, if you looking for something with a Gas Ram, or maybe a Benjamin Trail NP2 I think now called Benjamin Trail NP2 Elite?
Well if you looking spring piston powered there would even more options.
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My asp20 is a sweet shooter. I like it more than my vortek pg2 kitted hw95.
Both do cloverleaf groups at 25 yards, but the sig feels a little more solid, and I don't care for the rounded forearm of the hw95 stock. If it wasn't $259, I would buy an R9 stock for it. I keep my better scope on the sig...
Trigger goes to the HW95 though.
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hey, Matt.
What about a Diana 340 N-Tec, or 350 N-Tec, or a Diana Mauser AM03 N-Tec, if you looking for something with a Gas Ram, or maybe a Benjamin Trail NP2 I think now called Benjamin Trail NP2 Elite?
Well if you looking spring piston powered there would even more options.
I'll give the Diana's a look 'C. I have a Benjamin Trail but it's the XL1200 which is a BEAST. NP2 I hear is more manageable.
Yea I do like the piston powered vs springer.
Much appreciate the idea of the Diana line.
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My asp20 is a sweet shooter. I like it more than my vortek pg2 kitted hw95.
Both do cloverleaf groups at 25 yards, but the sig feels a little more solid, and I don't care for the rounded forearm of the hw95 stock. If it wasn't $259, I would buy an R9 stock for it. I keep my better scope on the sig...
Trigger goes to the HW95 though.
I've owned some Crosman and Turkish break barrels but from what I understand they are crude compared to the German flavor break barrel.
Sig is supposed to address that crude break barrel over all feel.
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Matt, I have the Benjamin Trail NP2 but only in .177 cal., and I have to say it is a decent gun, the trigger could need some more refinement but the rest of the Gun is pretty decent, now i'm not shooting mine for Paperpunching, i'm shooting mine mostly for plinking and i'm not a Hunter. It has some small kick to it, but it is also pretty easy to cock. But of course the Dianas are a class of it's own, I would like to have a Diana Mauser AM03 myself, btw, there was just a video review about it in the AIRGUN IVESTIGATORS Gate. He had there the so called Stealth version that comes with a silencer a 3-9x40 Diana AO Scope and Bullseye mount plus a soft case. AOA has it on sale right now.
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I would like to have a Diana Mauser AM03 myself,
This is another gun that never took off like Diana expected it to. I suspect the "Sticker Shock" is the reason.
It sure has a lot of the right stuff though.
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My son really wants one. And while the few reviews I've seen were favorable... I find the price to be too high for such an ugly rifle...
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Thinking about getting back into break barrels and I'm looking into the SIG Sauer ASP20.
So I don't rule out any of it's nearest competitors which ones should I be comparing to the SIG?
Matt
Have you checked out the reviews in Air Gun Detectives ?
John does a review on both the .22 Cal. Sig Sauer ASP20 and the .22 Cal. Diana AMO-3 Stealth N-Tec.
Here is the link if you wish to take a look > https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?board=232.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?board=232.0)
Best Wishes - Tom
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Tom - Many thanks for the link on the SIG ASP20.
The pursuit to find the perfect fit for a break barrel could go on to the point of being so indecisive that it becomes a dizzying ordeal.
I don't want it to get to that point. It would be very difficult to say that I made a mistake in buying the SIG because from what I've
been reading. It looks that promising.
Again many thanks for the link and letting me know about "Airgun Detectives".
Matt
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My son really wants one. And while the few reviews I've seen were favorable... I find the price to be too high for such an ugly rifle...
It is a rather steep price of admission but then it does come with many of the things people may want to get started in air rifles.
I'm not too impressed with the low FPS. Was expecting it to be comparable to the SIG FPS wise.
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My son really wants one. And while the few reviews I've seen were favorable... I find the price to be too high for such an ugly rifle...
It is a rather steep price of admission but then it does come with many of the things people may want to get started in air rifles.
I'm not too impressed with the low FPS. Was expecting it to be comparable to the SIG FPS wise.
He’s sixteen, and is into the tactical look. He’s done great with the rifles I’ve bought him so far. There’s a fair chance one of these may end up in his stocking. It’s just not for me.
I say that now; but who knows..? After some trigger time on his, I may be singing a different tune...
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I own Diana 340 N-Tec Luxus. Luxus means beautiful curley Walnut stock. I love this gas ram. I considered the Sig BUT a 2 pound trigger is a deal killer for me.
The Diana trigger is T o 6 and can be adjusted to your preference. I also have a brand new spring Diana 34. I like it too but the 340 is definitely better in fast shot cycle and accuracy. The spring 34 is still very accurate and great value.
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I own Diana 340 N-Tec Luxus. Luxus means beautiful curley Walnut stock. I love this gas ram. I considered the Sig BUT a 2 pound trigger is a deal killer for me.
The Diana trigger is T o 6 and can be adjusted to your preference. I also have a brand new spring Diana 34. I like it too but the 340 is definitely better in fast shot cycle and accuracy. The spring 34 is still very accurate and great value.
Is your stock an after market stock? I didn’t know Diana offered walnut.
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I VERY briefly owned an AMO3 Stealth, quickly sold it. That plastic cheek riser is garbage, couple hundred shots and it came apart, very Mickey Mouse. The exact same thing as what happened with a GTA member Orion and his review of the Diana Stealth. Are you willing to take that Diana Gas ram out of the box when you first receive it, and leave it muzzle down in a corner somewhere for 2 weeks before you ever fire it? That's what the resident Diana Guru says is required to properly "break in" this Diana gas ram. AOA still have that 20% return fee?
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I VERY briefly owned an AMO3 Stealth, quickly sold it. That plastic cheek riser is garbage, couple hundred shots and it came apart, very Mickey Mouse. The exact same thing as what happened with a GTA member Orion and his review of the Diana Stealth. Are you willing to take that Diana Gas ram out of the box when you first receive it, and leave it muzzle down in a corner somewhere for 2 weeks before you ever fire it? That's what the resident Diana Guru says is required to properly "break in" this Diana gas ram. AOA still have that 20% return fee?
That's a very good point. Makes one wonder if vendors are aware of this nuance, and store their stock in this manner..? I'd wager that they dont.
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I would say the SIG out of the box is on par with an tuned RWS 460.
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Looks to me like the Weihrauch HW90 is a close match as far as powerplant, weight, length, and reputation for quality and accuracy.
Price for an HW90 shipped from Krale is close to a beech ASP20 from Pyramyd including tax.
Have fun!
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AFAIK ASP20 is also the only fully American made gas piston gun.
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AFAIK ASP20 is also the only fully American made gas piston gun.
AFAIK ?
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AFAIK ASP20 is also the only fully American made gas piston gun.
AFAIK ?
As Far As I Know
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Thank U.
I don't get out much so that's why I asked ;D
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AFAIK ASP20 is also the only fully American made gas piston gun.
However Sig Sauer isn’t an American company. Part of the deal with having won contracts with the US military; the weapons production has to be in the US.
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I've owned some Crosman and Turkish break barrels but from what I understand they are crude compared to the German flavor break barrel.
Sig is supposed to address that crude break barrel over all feel.
I've had all three and your statement is demonstrably false. Sig Sauer would never have built a break-barrel if everyone truly felt all break-barrels were crude.
Diana and Weirhauch triggers are top shelf. The price difference between a Diana 240 and a Weirhauch HW30 is the sights on the Weirauch. Either one is a hands down winner if you are just hanging out shooting knockdowns with guests.
The finish on my Turkish Model 95 is completely different than that on my Crosman Vantage (Chinese B19). Turkish trigger is amazing yet different than the German designs. Barrel and receiver on the chinese gun is very similar to the german ones. My turkish barrel and receiver finish is different but different isn't inherently inferior. The Model 95 carries a beautiful stock, fantastic trigger and commensurate accurate barrel with a quiet and very comfortable shot cycle (in .22).
I won't speak to the US-built Crosman break-barrels except their US built CO2 and pneumatics do set a standard in a crowded field.
Sig charges a significant premium for the ASP20. I'm sure it's a great gun but there are so, so many great guns for the same money (or $100's less). I endorse US manufacture yet I went for an HW50 over the ASP20 when the Sig became available despite my waiting near a year for the Sig.
I won't badmouth the ASP20 because it's a great gun but it doesn't offer anything you can't get several other places for the same money and equal or better shooting. Great place to put your money but hardly unique in the market.
This turned into a lit class exposition, sorry.
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The market is pretty crowded for a fine breakbarrel. It is hard to make a name with a new high end breakbarrel rifle because the demand is not there.
I suspect the ASP20 may not get it's fair shake here. It is at least 1/3 more powerful than the guns it is normally compared to. It is a very powerful breakbarrel and could possibly hang with more docile guns in it's accuracy and "shootability".
I can appreciate the ingenuity that they put into the gun and I think it has a place among other guns in the same price range. Especially the whiskey3 scope combos.
I'd go for the ASP20.
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The market is pretty crowded for a fine breakbarrel. It is hard to make a name with a new high end breakbarrel rifle because the demand is not there.
I suspect the ASP20 may not get it's fair shake here.
Oh so true! I suspect that with the steady development and encroachment of the PCP many break-barrel manufactures are feeling the same pressure.
Sig's timing isn't the best to make this very expensive venture. I suspect they are working diligently on getting into the PCP market.
I don't think the development was not all in vein because like they say, "ya got to learn to walk before you can run".
It goes without saying that the ASP20 is probably one of the finer break-barrels to come to the market. Especially being that it's their first rodeo with air rifles.
If I were a betting man I'd say they will never recoup the total outlay with the sales of the ASP20 to get into the air rifle market.
It's a very good possibility Sig knew this from the get go but are looking long term because of all the pressure that is being put on PB market to tone it down.
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AFAIK ASP20 is also the only fully American made gas piston gun.
However Sig Sauer isn’t an American company. Part of the deal with having won contracts with the US military; the weapons production has to be in the US.
Someone needs to tell the Mods of GTA because it's in the American/U.S. Air Gun Gates.
I don't think you'll convince them to move it to the European/Asian Air Gun Gates though.
I'm pretty sure if I would have originated this post in the European/Asian Air Gun Gates they would have moved it to the American/U.S. Air Gun Gates.
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I suspect the ASP20 may not get it's fair shake here. It is at least 1/3 more powerful than the guns it is normally compared to. It is a very powerful breakbarrel and could possibly hang with more docile guns in it's accuracy and "shootability".
That is sort of what pushed me to the ASP20. I've tried several crosman and hatsan gas spring guns, and was never happy with any of them. I couldn't afford one of the theoban gas rams. The sig fell right into the "almost magnum" category while providing a very smooth shot cycle. Already having an HW95, I wanted something with a little more oomph. Sig fills that niche.
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When the ASP20 came out, I had the horns for one, even tho I prefer underlevers. But I wanted the combo with the Whiskey 3 scope. So I waited, cuz it was supposed to come out in early 2019.
I waited through the winter. Then spring came. Then summer.
Then I flashed on the fact that the RWS 460 sported similar ballistics. And it was an underlever. And PA sold them for $399. So I bought one in .22.
Loved it, and that thing threw pellets on a rope! But, it wasn't particularly pleasant to cock.
Then I did something that will produce shaking heads among the learned souls on the forum...I sent it to Motorhead to make it more likable to cock. It became a 14 FPE rifle, down from the original 21 FPE.
For me, it was the right move. What an outstanding rifle now. I didn't really need that kind of power, and what I have now exactly fits my needs!
Even so, I'm tempted to pick up the 430L from AOA...but I don't care for the one caliber it comes in. And owners report that it, too, is hard to cock. And what would it do differently than the 460?
So, now I'm waiting to get a Walther LGU Master Pro. That will complete the trifecta along my TX200 and HW97K.
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My son really wants one. And while the few reviews I've seen were favorable... I find the price to be too high for such an ugly rifle...
Agreed. If it's not pleasing to the eye I don't want it.
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I have a Sig ASP20 Synthetic .22 and I love the gun! Have put probably 100 pellets through it and it's a sparrows killing machine. If I miss it's me. And it's such a smooth shooting gun for the power it outputs. From what I can tell mine isn't very hold sensitive at all. And doesn't seem pellet picky with the JSB line of pellets. And at my 22yd zero the 16gr 18gr and Hades shoot to the same poi
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I’m not seeing any ASP20 in classifieds so owners must be happy with them.
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I have the Sig in 177 with the whisky 3 scope and I love it. I have many other spring guns an R9, R10, FWB124, 98, 97,and many more. The Sig will out shoot all of them. I have my trigger set down to 1lb,12oz and has a very nice break I like the trigger and im a trigger snob. Go with the Sig and enjoy.
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So, now I'm waiting to get a Walther LGU Master Pro. That will complete the trifecta along my TX200 and HW97K.
That's what's missing from this thread- talk of Walthers. I feel like Walther often gets overlooked in favor of AA or HW.
I recently have had a Terrus in my hands (albeit damaged from shipping) and I have to say I really like the features on the rifle. If a person wanted more power, then the Parrus would be for them. If they wanted top notch features and accuracy the LGU or LGV would be the way to go.
The Terrus is the first air rifle I've had that has a dovetail on the muzzle for the front sight meaning the end consumer can easily replace the front sight with one of their preference. How often do you see that? It means a lot to me since I like shooting with peep sights. Also, the safety is easily resettable which HWs are not. Yeah, here recently I've become a fan of Walthers....
I'd like to see the airgun industry settle on a standard dovetail width for the front sight. That way, its easier for an after-market industry to provide front sights to a wider market and that way we get more choices for how we want to sight our rifles. Even the PB industry has that issue. You've got dovetails that are in-line with the barrel (which I prefer). OTOH, you have dovetails that are perpendicular to the barrel and those can be all kinds of different widths. In-line with the barrel and standard width- that's what I want.
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...But of course the Dianas are a class of it's own, I would like to have a Diana Mauser AM03 myself, btw, there was just a video review about it in the AIRGUN IVESTIGATORS Gate. He had there the so called Stealth version that comes with a silencer a 3-9x40 Diana AO Scope and Bullseye mount plus a soft case. AOA has it on sale right now.
I have the AMO3 Stealth in .22. I love it but the FPS is a little low with a 14.66 gr pellet, 670 MV, 579@30 meters... as for the kit, the soft case is useless once a scope is mounted, the case is too small. The scope that came with it is garbage, I can see a ring of daylight around the objective even. The 1” ZR mount is still in the package. I only use 30mm scopes on my rifles. But I like the way I’ve got mine set up now even with the hard case I bought for it. Just wish I could’ve bought the rifle without the kit.
As for the Sig ASP20... I plan on getting the .22 in Beech and the .177 in synthetic.
And actually I plan to get another AMO3 Stealth in .177... 😄
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I have both an ASP20 and a Trail NP2 and to me there is no comparison the Sig wins hands down.
That being said I CAN get parts for the NP2 but not for the ASP20. If the SIG should fail for whatever reason your only recourse is to send it back to SIG.
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I have both an ASP20 and a Trail NP2 and to me, there is no comparison the Sig wins hands down.
That being said I CAN get parts for the NP2 but not for the ASP20. If the SIG should fail for whatever reason your only recourse is to send it back to SIG.
With Sig's 5 year warranty that is what Sig wants people to do.
I also suspect that in 5 years there will be something more tempting to replace the Sig or whoever is the king now.
With the Golden Era of air rifles running on afterburner who knows where this is all going.
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Tom, how does the shot cycle of the Sig compare to the NP2 ? Also, if you had to ship the Sig back for repairs do they pay shipping ?
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Looks to me like the Weihrauch HW90 is a close match as far as powerplant, weight, length, and reputation for quality and accuracy.
Price for an HW90 shipped from Krale is close to a beech ASP20 from Pyramyd including tax.
Have fun!
On that note it would be really hard not to go with the HW. Granted I’ve never handled the sig.
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So, now I'm waiting to get a Walther LGU Master Pro. That will complete the trifecta along my TX200 and HW97K.
That's what's missing from this thread- talk of Walthers. I feel like Walther often gets overlooked in favor of AA or HW.
I recently have had a Terrus in my hands (albeit damaged from shipping) and I have to say I really like the features on the rifle. If a person wanted more power, then the Parrus would be for them. If they wanted top notch features and accuracy the LGU or LGV would be the way to go.
The Terrus is the first air rifle I've had that has a dovetail on the muzzle for the front sight meaning the end consumer can easily replace the front sight with one of their preference. How often do you see that? It means a lot to me since I like shooting with peep sights. Also, the safety is easily resettable which HWs are not. Yeah, here recently I've become a fan of Walthers....
I'd like to see the airgun industry settle on a standard dovetail width for the front sight. That way, its easier for an after-market industry to provide front sights to a wider market and that way we get more choices for how we want to sight our rifles. Even the PB industry has that issue. You've got dovetails that are in-line with the barrel (which I prefer). OTOH, you have dovetails that are perpendicular to the barrel and those can be all kinds of different widths. In-line with the barrel and standard width- that's what I want.
Tim, I agree with your comments. My .22 Terrus meets the VK Accuracy Standard. Now, it took some finagling to get there, I admit, but it and the other finicky one in my stable, the HW57, are just as accurate from 15 to 25 yards as the acknowledged kings of accuracy, the TX and 97.
Yeah, folks, I know there are others, but I don't own 'em.
Yet.
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Tom, how does the shot cycle of the Sig compare to the NP2 ? Also, if you had to ship the Sig back for repairs do they pay shipping ?
The shot cycle is almost nearly identical but the ASP20 feels a bit smoother. The NP2 is sharper. I don't know why but NP2 is more difficult to get a repeatable hold / accuracy out of. Might just be me :)
The cocking effort of the ASP20 is slightly less and feels smoother.
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... My .22 Terrus meets the VK Accuracy Standard...
What's the VK Accuracy Standard?
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... My .22 Terrus meets the VK Accuracy Standard...
What's the VK Accuracy Standard?
Reliably smiting aspirins from golf tees at 15 to 20 yards.
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... My .22 Terrus meets the VK Accuracy Standard...
What's the VK Accuracy Standard?
Reliably smiting aspirins from golf tees at 15 to 20 yards.
That is a great standard! May I ask how it got its name?
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... My .22 Terrus meets the VK Accuracy Standard...
What's the VK Accuracy Standard?
Reliably smiting aspirins from golf tees at 15 to 20 yards.
That is a great standard! May I ask how it got its name?
Sure! Among other names, I am often called 'VK'! My middle name is Kenton, so early on, I signed reports, etc, as 'VK Johnson'...and so it went!
Now, I have begun to shoot plastic beads in addition to aspirins. They are smaller and more challenging, although more messy than aspirins, which disintegrate. I might have to vacuum the grass one of these days when the wife notices the plastic bits in the lawn!
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... My .22 Terrus meets the VK Accuracy Standard...
What's the VK Accuracy Standard?
Reliably smiting aspirins from golf tees at 15 to 20 yards.
That is a great standard! May I ask how it got its name?
Sure! Among other names, I am often called 'VK'! My middle name is Kenton, so early on, I signed reports, etc, as 'VK Johnson'...and so it went!
Now, I have begun to shoot plastic beads in addition to aspirins. They are smaller and more challenging, although more messy than aspirins, which disintegrate. I might have to vacuum the grass one of these days when the wife notices the plastic bits in the lawn!
Try orbees! They can hydrate to various sizes, and are biodegradable!
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Great idea, wimpanzee! I'll give that a go!
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There's an ASP20 for sale here on GTA: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=166250.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=166250.0)
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There's an ASP20 for sale here on GTA: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=166250.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=166250.0)
yep! if it weren't 8.5 lbs without the scope, I'd bought that air rifle. ::) Well, maybe.;D Definitely! ??? Unless my wife started reasoning with me: something about "how many does one man need?!" 8) 8) 8)
My loss is your gain. ;)
Seriously, if the weight is not an issue, the Sig sounds like a great air rifle. I prefer my German air rifles; but I've got a superb Gamo (Dad shoots it, now) and a very reliable Crosman Nitro Venom Dusk (with a trigger that I really need to upgrade). A good gun is one you like and shoot well!!
have fun,
Archie
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Just got around to reading this thread. I have the beechwood ASP20 in .22 cal. I'll give my opinion for anyone contemplating
getting one.
The shot cycle and accuracy is something to behold for its power. The trigger is fair to good in my book. It's no Rekord or
T06 but it's pretty good. The stock is nice but a little bulky. I prefer the slimmer stock like on my RWS 34. I get it though,
the Sigs power plant size calls for a larger stock. The noise level is about like my M34 and not bad at all. The one thing
about gas ram airguns is they are affective by temperature. I get 22-23 ft lbs in colder weather and 23-24+ in warmer
weather. Overall performance averages below. All pellets weighed.
Sig Crux alloy @ 9.6 gr. 1045 fps
Sig Crux lead @ 14.7 gr. 840 fps
Sig Wraith alloy @ 13.3 gr. 880 fps Extremely accurate!
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My son really wants one. And while the few reviews I've seen were favorable... I find the price to be too high for such an ugly rifle...
Agreed. If it's not pleasing to the eye I don't want it.
It's just fugly!
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There IS no comparison to the Sig ASP20 .22.
If you can hold out and find one it's absolutely worth the wait and the price you'll pay.
I feel very fortunate to have one in my library of air guns.
.22 beechwood if you can find one.