GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: YEMX on December 31, 2018, 10:18:00 PM
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Kinda...
I'm "getting back" to the 6mm project. Some slight changes. I wanted to build something similar to the .17 HMaiR, at least in looks... So here's my version (pretty much the same thing, slight changes):
Starting with a used Gen2 .25 Marauder (well THAT'S certainly a first!):
- 28" 6mm barrel. threads at the muzzle, 18mm O.D. CF sleeve
- Cothran Valve
- JSAR 2024 Aluminium main tube. 29" OAL
- JSAR MDS hammer
- JSAR TSS
- Hill High Volume Gauge Port
- Boyd's Pro Varmint stock
Same plan as before, enlarge part of the bore in the breech for the 18mm O.D. barrel sleeve, 1.25" deep. Bore-sized TP... Then just enjoy it.
I didn't want to do another bottle build, I know- I'm sacrificing a lot of shots... But it's a touch cheaper this way, and if I want a lot of shots I can always tether it. ;D
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tom, thinking about trying it in a RainStorm II.Plenty of power on tap for it. Will hit 110 fpe in the .257 without stressing it too much.
Should make for a great .172! First however, still testing the .257 and have a 26.5 inch bbl coming from Oneshot for it. ;)
Mike
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You know, the Rainstorm2 was one of the platforms I was considering for the 6mm idea... But I really like the look/simplicity of Ced's HMaiR...
Now- a .172 Rainstorm sounds pretty cool!!!
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Oddly enough, even though Evanix list a .177 rainstorm, no one seems to carry them. Probably too much power for a .177. LOL.
Reason for looking is to try and source a .177 mag for the project.
Mike
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you done good with the gen2 mrod, internal parts available at the drop of a hat !!
;)
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Kind of a weird question- maybe not?
Should I have a .25 bolt modified to work with this 6mm build? Or should I modify a .22 bolt? Are the back ends of the bolts the same, so it wouldn't really matter, considering the nature of the bolt modification? I'm fixin' to order some more parts, and was just wondering which bolt to use... I'm thinking just modify a .25 bolt? What say you?
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Wouldn't take much to mod a .25 bolt. ;) I mean,if it different. Otherwise, I would use a .177 bolt. ;)
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The Gen 2 .25 bolt would not take much at all to modify. A bit beefier which leaves room for tapping or a sleeve
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I figured I should use a .25 bolt with a .25 breech, I just wanted to be sure before I order- these things are about or over $20 each!! I need to order 2- one for this 6mm build, and another for my .25 slug gun build.
Thanks again y'all! Again, I'll keep y'all posted when I can.
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Many more parts ordered for the 6mm build. Planning on sending out the parts that need to be modified soon. Since this is just one project I'm working on, I want to send out all the parts that need to be modified at the same time, that way everything gets done efficiently. The modifications are the same, it's just different calibers. I'll keep y'all posted!
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I got all (I think) the small parts in for this build... Now I just need to the parts that need to be modified/machined to my machinist...
I'm still waiting on my JSAR Aluminium main tube, hopefully I'll get it soon...
I'm waiting for the 1st to get my Cothran valve... A few more weeks, and I should be ready to assemble... I CAN'T WAIT!!
Then I'll just need to order a N.C. LDC for this build, and I should be good to go for test/tune!
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You could even leave the bolt at .25 cal and make a custom chamber.... Make it to fit the bolt behind the barrel port, where the O-ring lives, and then taper it down to 6mm through the barrel port area.... and then 6mm and parallel ahead of that for the chamber.... I mean you are only talking about 0.006" smaller.... I did this in my Hayabusa Mk.II for a .308 bullet and barrel with a .357 bolt (they share the same receiver and bolt) and for a .224 bullet and barrel with a .257 bolt (ditto), and both chamber smooth as butter.... and those are a lot bigger steps in the chambers.... The key is to keep the diameter change far enough behind the parallel chamber that the bullet is guided into the rifling straight by the chamber....
Bob
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You could even leave the bolt at .25 cal and make a custom chamber.... Make it to fit the bolt behind the barrel port, where the O-ring lives, and then taper it down to 6mm through the barrel port area.... and then 6mm and parallel ahead of that for the chamber.... I mean you are only talking about 0.006" smaller.... I did this in my Hayabusa Mk.II for a .308 bullet and barrel with a .357 bolt (they share the same receiver and bolt) and for a .224 bullet and barrel with a .257 bolt (ditto), and both chamber smooth as butter.... and those are a lot bigger steps in the chambers.... The key is to keep the diameter change far enough behind the parallel chamber that the bullet is guided into the rifling straight by the chamber....
Bob
I had this in my head when everyone confirmed my thought on using a .25 bolt for the build... Good to know the idea will work!!
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Not too much of an update- I'm going to deviate a little bit from the original plan. I saw a Cobra valve for sale for a price I couldn't pass up. So instead of the Cothran valve, I'm going to use a WAR Cobra valve...
Except for all the small bits, the only thing I'm waiting to buy is the Boyd's stock... Once I get the Cobra valve in, I can send off the breech, valve, tube and bolt to be modified and have a TP made. Then I can work on getting all the small bits.
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Question for the guru's: Since I'm going with a WAR Cobra valve, should I regulate the gun? I'll be using a TSS and MDS hammer... Just wondering.
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I received the WAR Cobra valve, and I got notification that my Aluminium tube has been shipped, and will be here soon...
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I got my new tube today- it is so light! At 29" OAL, it's perfectly spaced behind the muzzle when the fill adapter and dust cap is on. There's also enough room for a slip on LDC mount as well!! I'm going to "glue" it on w/some Loctite 648...
Now I can start getting the parts that need to be modified together and send it to my machinist... Oh man, can't wait!!
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Well, I found out that the valve I have isn't a WAR Cobra valve- but it is a WAR valve... No worries- I'll probably pick up a Cothran valve soon for this build...
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Well, I found out that the valve I have isn't a WAR Cobra valve- but it is a WAR valve... No worries- I'll probably pick up a Cothran valve soon for this build...
Tom,
The WAR valve is easier to make more power, just wasn't the most efficient - that's what Travis says.
I have a Cobra Valve but before that I used the standard WAR Valve it puts out the horses.
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Well, I found out that the valve I have isn't a WAR Cobra valve- but it is a WAR valve... No worries- I'll probably pick up a Cothran valve soon for this build...
Tom,
The WAR valve is easier to make more power, just wasn't the most efficient - that's what Travis says.
I have a Cobra Valve but before that I used the standard WAR Valve it puts out the horses.
But does it open as easy as a Cothran? Also, the exhaust port is only .20", whereas the Cothran is .25"...
Well, I feel like an idiot... I DO have a Cobra valve, the exhaust port is still .20"... I saw a picture of a Gen 1 WAR valve, and I was thinking of my custom made BAM 50 valve that looks the same. *FACEPALM* I had confused the two. ::)
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I know I said I wasn't going to change the plan, but seeing all these Flex builds going on, I've got the itch for a Flex, but I can't justify close to $3k on a new gun. Also, I have 90% of the parts needed for a bottle build. All I need is the shorter tube, bottle and reg
Also, I can just swap the chassis between the .357 and the 6mm. They're basically the same build. I can save some money by not having to buy another chassis...
Now I just need to get my mitts on a Cobra Reg... If I can't get a Cobra reg, I'll use a reg from JSAR.
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I have a short tube for a Gen2 Mrod and a 500cc bottle if your looking lol. Was gonna do a bottlerod but never got around to it and now have a Flex ;D don't have the bottle block or bottle adapter though
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I have a short tube for a Gen2 Mrod and a 500cc bottle if your looking lol.
You are a lifesaver!! I thank you!
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I'm gonna go ahead and get a JSAR adjustable reg when they become available- I've already got a bottle block, and I'll have a short tube and CF bottle coming soon...
It's a good thing I'm using a standard .25 Mrod breech for this build- I would probably confuse this rifle with my .357 build at first glance if I didn't! ;D ;D ;D
I'll be sending the breech, bolt and barrel off next week or the week after for modification.
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I think I'm going to make one more change to this build- I think I'm going to try and see if a 24" will be okay for this 6mm build. I'll just up the output pressure of the reg... Maybe 2400 psi? Target energy is 120 fpe or so. These LONG guns are somewhat ungainly...
I'll be using a 500cc 4500 psi tank... Not that I'll be going all the way up to 4500 psi. But the tank is a touch larger. So maybe dropping 4" from the OAL won't be so bad... I'll for sure lose a few shots. But just like the .357, I'm not too concerned with a super high shot count... 5+ is fine with me.
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I agree wholeheartedly. I had a Hatsan Nova her fo a short time, and absolutly hated it. Barrel was bad anyway, so PA Changed it out fo the RS II with a bit more money. Well worth it! Or was it the same?
Well, at any rate, there was no comparison in quality. I'll never order another Hatsan period. Terrible machine work, fit and finish. Third world at best.
Knife
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...Terrible machine work, fit and finish. Third world at best.
Knife
Sounds like my machine work! ;D ;D ;D
I've just sent off the barrel, breech, valve, and bolt off to be modified and have a TP made. When I get the parts back I'll assemble the 6mm finally!!! I'll keep y'all posted.
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Well, I have my 6mm parts back! All I have to do is assemble it... That'll be a little bit. I'm currently working on my lathe and a stock... But! At least I have all the parts in!
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The last part I've been waiting on before assembly was the reg. I emailed JSAR to confirm, and just ordered a JSAR externally adjustable reg. I got tired of assembling my own... This will be much faster and use less air. Now, I just have to wait on that to come in, and I can FINALLY assemble this rifle!!!
Except I just remembered that I need to order an LDC for it ::) Oh well... Once I get it assembled, I'll order one up from Mr. Clague. Probably at the same time I'll order my LDC for my FWB 603 project, so two birds!! Anyhoo, I'll keep y'all posted. PROGRESS!!!
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You are getting those project rifles knocked out this year Tom, congrats.
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I had to take a break... I was getting too frustrated with so many projects on hand, plus the house work that needed done... Plus my truck that I need, but need to fix (i.e. modify) ::) I'm in a better place now...
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Glad you got it sorted out. I enjoy following along with your projects/builds.
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Glad you got it sorted out. I enjoy following along with your projects/builds.
Well, now with states starting to activate the National Guard for this coronavirus stuff, I'll definitely have to email before sending anything out to anyone to have work done...
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Well, ladies and germs I FINALLY have my JSAR externally adjustable reg! I will get to assembling this 6mm and order up a LDC for it! Then I can finally shoot it!! It's been a long time coming! I'll keep y'all posted!
(https://i.imgur.com/sy5feOo.jpg)
It fits beautifully on my CF tank! Oh man, I can't believe this day is FINALLY here!!
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Some small snags... Reg came with no adjustment wrench- Travis (oldpro) suggested I get this one:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DNDNC2B/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DNDNC2B/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
It fits the reg beautifully. It may not be as snazzy as the wrench from Hajimoto, but it for sure works, and is inexpensive!
I am missing two parts to complete the build (because of course!), which I've ordered from Crosman a couple days ago. They should be here soon. I can't wait to get these parts in. I'm going to need to cast some more slugs!!
I've also ordered a new gauge for the reg. The 2 gauges that are on the reg as it comes from JSAR are tiny, and are both 0-6k gauges. The output gauge is too small and imprecise. So I went on ebay and got a 1/8 NPT gauge, 1.5" O.D. that is 0-3k psi. Much better delineation.
Anyhoo, once all these parts come in, I can FINALLY assemble this 6mm and get to shooting!!
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Those two parts from Crosman came in, so all I'm waiting on now is the new gauge... Oh man, OH MAN!! It's almost time for assembly!!!
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Gauge(s) came in today!! Assembly will begin soon. Have some yard work, and some small stuff to do before I FINALLY put this 6mm together!
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I look forward to seeing what this monster comes out looking like!
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I look forward to seeing what this monster comes out looking like!
It'll look like just another Brod! ;D I'm not even using a Armada breech on this build! I wouldn't call this a "monster" either- MAYBE 120 fpe? But that might be wishful thinking. I'll have to bump the reg's output higher, as my barrel is only 26" instead of 28"... But I'm not building this for efficiency! Another thing that's different is the bolt is a modified Gen1 .25 cal... I'm also just using the same RAI chassis I have for multiple platforms... Once I get the rifle together, and see how much space is between the muzzle and the end of the bottle (got a 500cc CF one), I can then order an LDC from Mr. Clague. I can't wait!!
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This is the RAI chassis I'll be using for the 6mm and the .357 Brods (once I get my new bolt for the .357):
(https://i.imgur.com/1y3UHFP.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/02zbGFI.jpg)
No gauge through-hole, but it'll fit a gauge in the chassis. So if I ever build a Brod with a gauge (due to lack of a gaugeless tube), I can still use the chassis. I've got a china-clone of the LAW folding hinge, a KAK Shockwave with butt-plate. Random ebay trigger guard, and an Ergo grip. M1913 section on the bottom for a bipod. I've got an Atlas clone that I need to modify that I'll be using. I hand made the stencils for the pseudo GAP Camo paint job. The paint is simply 3 colors of Rustoleum Camo, with a few coats of Rustoleum matte. Only bad part about the chassis is that I am stuck using a factory trigger blade...
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Slight change- I'll be using a AF Talon tank (valve removed of course) on this build, rather than the CF tank. It'll add some welcome weight, and should be shorter than the CF tank- giving me more space for a longer reflex LDC from Mr. Clague. i.e. more quiet!!
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Well, got the big gauge on the low side, and got the reg on the tank... Looks pretty good!!
Another slight change- I'll be using an old Mrod synthetic stock instead of putting this in that chassis. I'm going to paint it that typical faux GAP Camo pattern that I love for some reason. I'm also going to add some silicon carbide on the grip areas for texture. I've also filled the rear of the stock with expanding foam. Not sure why- I just don't like hollow stocks I guess.
I guess that's about it for updates.
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No pictures yet... I want to have it all done before showing y'all. ;D But I started assembly tonight! I got the barrel sleeve cut, and it's on the barrel. I'm waiting for the Loctite 648 to cure. Everything looks good! I still need to finish with the stock, so I'll get to that tomorrow. Everything went together well! I had a slight "oh-no" moment w/my PEEK striker, but I got it handled. It's a good thing PEEK is such a durable material!
The foam in the stock didn't turn out so well. It's all cleaned up now though. I'll check tomorrow, but for whatever reason the foam didn't want to cure evenly... It was just weird. It was a new can and everything! Whatever, it's done now. I need to find/get some screws so I can install the factory butt-pad. I'm not sure what happened to the original ones. No biggie.
Since I switched over to a Talon tank, I'll be using that Dr. Bob's bipod mount that goes around metal tanks. I was going to use it for another project, but that didn't pan out. So I'll use it on this one. Plus, I feel the sling stud is too close to me to be really effective. The further out the bipod, the more stable the platform; to do that I need to get the bipod somewhere on the tank not behind the reg.
I forgot I need rings... I hope I can get dovetail rings for a 30mm scope tube! ??? I probably should have checked that before choosing a standard breech. ::)
Anyhoo, that's it for now. I may have some pics tomorrow...
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After looking over the stock and doing some fitting (It should have fit fine! ::) >:( ), I'm going to bed the air block with some JB Weld. I'll have to remove some more material to get the block to fit the stock (this stock was previously modified for a Brod- not sure why it doesn't fit now :-\ ). I can also take some time and finish cleaning up the stock- I filled in the gauge hole, and I also filled in the "B" on the bottom of the grip. I'm probably going to fill in the sling swivel holes as well. Other than all that, The stock is ready to go! ;D I can't wait to get this rifle assembled so I can take some measurements of the space between the muzzle and the tank- then I can finally order the LDC!! I ordered some rings tonight- Pyramyd did have 30mm rings for dovetails in stock. *whew*
Oh! I was also able to find some wood screws that were squirreled away YEARS ago that were the perfect length. I needed two for the butt-pad and one for a rear trigger guard screw. I'm very pleased!!
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Okay... Some pictures. I've opened up the front of the stock a touch to fit the bottle block, and am currently waiting for the JB Weld to cure. I won't have any gauges threaded into the bottle block itself, since all the necessary gauges are in the reg. So I filled in the gauge cut out in the stock, that I made previously. The pictures aren't very good, but hopefully you get the idea. I've epoxied in the swivel studs, maybe I'll want to use a sling in the future. Probably not, but the option's there. Anyhoo, I'll continue work on the stock tomorrow. I still need to finish filling in the "B" on the bottom of grip and do any clean up from the bottle block bedding. I'm pretty pleased so far, with how everything is looking! Now it's just paint.
I filled in the gauge hole. I'm trying to blend it all together. Won't know how well or poorly I did until I can get some primer down.
(https://i.imgur.com/qjdBvbt.jpg)
Bottle block bedding. At some angles it looks crooked, others not so much. I'm not too worried about it, since it's not horrendous and it doesn't affect how the gun will shoot. The bipod mount is adjustable, so no biggie. There will be a slight gap, since there's 2 layers of masking tape over the bottle block. Yes, that's what I wanted.
(https://i.imgur.com/AbJK4q3.jpg)
Bottle bipod mount:
(https://i.imgur.com/VYnRNUM.jpg)
JSAR reg w/new, bigger gauge. MUCH easier to see the output pressure now! ;D
(https://i.imgur.com/oqQTgIa.jpg)
Gen1 Mrod .25 bolt. In a Gen2 breech.
(https://i.imgur.com/JQ4dJla.jpg)
The upper. The barrel is 26" OAL (I think- I'll measure it again later), and sleeved. I used Loctite 648 to glue the CF sleeve into place. Those are 1/2-20 threads at the muzzle.
(https://i.imgur.com/EcuMKsB.jpg)
Here's the trigger guard I made. I removed the safety.
(https://i.imgur.com/ssq86U2.jpg)
Here's most of the gun waiting on the JB Weld to cure...
(https://i.imgur.com/d5BkFds.jpg)
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The JB Weld had set enough for me to remove the main tube and check the bedding job... I noticed a few spots I knew would be trouble... Sure enough, there were a few voids. No biggie- I cleaned up the block and re-waxed it, and mixed some more JB Weld to fill in the voids. Tomorrow I'll be good to clean up the squeeze out behind the block (inside the stock) and sand down all the visible stuff. Then I can mix up some epoxy fairing compound and really blend everything together. Sunday or Monday I'll start painting. The rifle action will be assembled tomorrow, and I can do an initial fill to check for leaks. If all goes well I'll do a full fill on Monday, set the reg and let it sit until the stock is done, then check for leaks again. I'm going to cross my fingers now that there will be no leaks ;D We're getting there!
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Okay- got a few more pictures here. Overall, I'm extremely happy with how everything has turned out so far! No leaks since I finished assembly and filled this morning. Still holding strong at 3k. I've set the reg- which is super easy BTW!!! I've set the reg to 2200 psi output to start. I'm looking for as close to 120 fpe as I can get, w/o having to set the reg at 3k psi. I'll be running a few initial strings once I get my LDC. Anyhoo, pictures and story time! ;D
Here she is all assembled. Not done yet though. Terrible picture. I can only go 3" back from the muzzle, with regards to one of Mr. Clague's reflex LDC's... Maybe I should have kept the barrel at 28"! ;D
(https://i.imgur.com/sFOanWv.jpg)
Tank block bedding and JSAR reg/barrel clearance. It's not pictured, but I have a magnetic fill nipple cover that can be used on this reg! Nice!!
(https://i.imgur.com/9UYUGSd.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/sFSwXbu.jpg)
.25 cal single shot tray. I'm pretty sure this is an Air Venturi one.
(https://i.imgur.com/tWzRaJF.jpg)
After running some errands, I sat down and did some more work. I mixed up some epoxy filler and touched up some spots on the stock... I'm just waiting for the epoxy to set so I can do some sanding. I'm also doing some work to the single shot tray... It isn't fitting nearly as tight as I'd like. I put some epoxy filler on the bottom and on the front (barrel side) of the tray. It'll take some fitting and filling, but that single shot tray WILL fit perfect and tight when I'm done with it!
All that's left after all this is paint. I'm excited!! Amost done w/another project!
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WOW! Your on roll Tom. Nice! I bet I can guess what color your going to paint it. ;D
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WOW! Your on roll Tom. Nice! I bet I can guess what color your going to paint it. ;D
Thank you! Oh yeah- It's my favorite camo pattern! The colors are available at nearly every hardware store and big box store in the state- probably the country. The patterns are easy to free hand, and over all it's hard to mess up. It goes on quickly, and to me it looks really good for only having 3 colors. But who knows, maybe the 6mm will get a multicam paint job!
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I'm kinda leaning towards a multicam paint job for this stock ;D I mean, this is the first dedicated slug shooter I've assembled, why not give it a special paint job? Anyhoo, I'm done with all the sanding and such. Good enough for gov't work anyway. I'll take some pics tomorrow.
I've finished fitting the single shot tray. Now it fits the way I want- snug with no wobble!! When it snaps into place, it doesn't move at all. I cleaned it up and gave it a quick shot of flat black paint, so it's all one color. I'll primer the stock and make the stencils tomorrow as well. *sigh* looking at the time, I will primer this stock and make the stencils TODAY ::) ;D
The only gripe I have about this build is that it is NOT balanced at all. That Talon tank is HEAVY. I've still got the bipod and LDC to add when everything's done! I wish I could add some weight to the stock. But I do NOT feel like opening it back up and shoving a steel rod in there with some epoxy. Oh well. Here's to hoping the rings and scope will help balance the rifle out ;D
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Here's a shot of the painted single shot tray. You can't really tell from the pic of the extra material I've added to make the tray fit more snug in the breech...
(https://i.imgur.com/9RriGjM.jpg)
Fill nipple cover
(https://i.imgur.com/2PzsYs2.jpg)
Here's some more shots of the cleaned up mods/fixes I've done to the stock:
Bottle block inlet
(https://i.imgur.com/RtsA7PC.jpg)
This is where I had a groove cut out for a gauge. I filled it in and leveled it
(https://i.imgur.com/y2EVinN.jpg)
I filled in that "B" on the grip cap... For whatever reason, it really grinds my gears. Yes, it's smooth and flat
(https://i.imgur.com/VLYLv4a.jpg)
Scott (Motorhead) did this to one of his Brods, and I liked it. I'm not sure if he used the same rock texture, but the idea is the same... Except I'll be painting over mine. There were no colors that would have gone well w/the paint scheme I want. We'll see how durable it is
(https://i.imgur.com/RyWebpf.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/vEOBcpO.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/WliAmRW.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/1GVT3BG.jpg)
So I'm definitely going to do a Multicam pattern on this stock!
(https://i.imgur.com/kDIEvPj.jpg)
In a bit, I'm going to make some stencils for this stock... I've ordered the LDC, so maybe a week or two for that. Plenty of time to paint the stock! Anyhoo, that's about it for updates. Nothing huge, but we're getting there! Oh- and she's still holding strong at 3k psi! No loss of air over night... Most excellent!! ;D
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In primer...
(https://i.imgur.com/5TpH9sv.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/8QZvFAo.jpg)
So the experiment with the texture paint didn't turn out so well...
With the texture paint:
(https://i.imgur.com/KYKKeIB.jpg)
Factory texture:
(https://i.imgur.com/wfgC8BD.jpg)
The difference can hardly be seen in the pictures, but you can feel the difference. It's not significant enough of a difference to suggest that anyone do this. Maybe if I had sprayed more on there? I only did enough layers to get full coverage of the areas I wanted to texture. But as it stands right now, eh... I didn't want to try bed liner because I don't think you can paint over it. Also, I didn't feel like mixing up some epoxy and doing the silicon carbide trick. I kind of just want to get these stocks done so I can get to shooting.
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Now I remember why I don't like painting Multicam! ::) ;D ;D I'm still laying down colors, Not sure how this is going to turn out. I guess that's why I like painting camo- even the simple patterns are exciting to unwrap once the color is done being sprayed...
Although, the number of layers Multicam has...
Base layer- sand, solid color
2nd layer- Brown, solid color
3rd layer- OD Green and tan, striped
4th layer- Army Green and khaki, striped- opposite from 3rd layer
Plus there's different size/shape stencils for each layer... So to say a Multicam pattern is a lot of work is an understatement... Then, you won't even know how it'll turn out until after you're all done spraying. ;D You can work in variations of color and stripes depending on your main area where you'll be shooting. The variations are endless!
Also, this tape is weird- the first stock I painted, the tape stuck to the different layers no problem, and even took some layers off because the adhesive was so good. But on this stock, it's coming off easier than I'd like- i.e. it's not sticking very well... So this paint job will definitely turn out... interesting. *crossing fingers* I hope it's passable.
I can't wait for the LDC to get here so I can mark off on the barrel shroud where the it stops. I'm going to wrap the CF sleeve... I don't like shiny. TBH, I don't really like CF either... ;D
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Eh... I'm not happy with it. I think I know where I messed up too... Meh. Next time I do a Multicam, it should be better.
(https://i.imgur.com/yvzNTMq.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/AUzUDD1.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Epp9XjV.jpg)
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Your paint job still looks better than my efforts to date, maybe this video will be helpful if you choose to go 'digital' on your next paint job?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWM1UX7vksA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWM1UX7vksA)
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The paint job was really bothering me, so I took the OD green and misted it over the stock and cheek piece, then put more matte clear on it. I think it looks better. It definitely toned down the "Army Green" color, without completely covering it. Still not what I'd call a "Multicam", but better. I'll post pics when I have the whole thing assembled.
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We're getting there!
(https://i.imgur.com/fANUUbI.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/olICEYe.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/6dhuJzq.jpg)
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The stock does look better. I think those camo paint jobs look better flat then glossy. JMO.
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The stock does look better. I think those camo paint jobs look better flat then glossy. JMO.
All the paints I've used are flat or matte paints One of the colors is satin, but the matte clear squashes the sheen of the satin... I think I took those first pics right after I sprayed the initial layer of clear.
The OAL of the rifle is 42.25"... The LDC will add 10" to that. I think I'm going to have do what I was originally going to do and put the guts into the chassis I have that has a folding stock. Over 52"? That's way too long... ??? :(
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Okay- had to make a few changes... I had to go back to the factory trigger blade, and I had to switch the stock screw out for a SHCS... It's fine, the LOP is adjustable, making the fit much better. The cheek piece feels better too. I'll just swap platforms depending on if I want to shoot .357 and or 6mm. OAL with stock locked open is 43.5", and with the stock folded I'm looking at a OAL of 32.5". Of course, the LDC adds 10" to the OAL, but I can remove it for travel.
(https://i.imgur.com/oDZkQYF.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/k2bjBE7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/LFffCor.jpg)
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I've got a new grip on the way. I just want to be different from most- a lot of people run the Ergo grip. Nothing wrong with it, I just want to do something different. Also, I think I'm going to pull the 6mm out of the chassis- I think the tolerance on the valve screws is too tight. I can't thread the valve screws in any tighter (I don't want to force anything), and I just feel like the Brod is getting hung up there. I'm also going to spray on some OD green paint on the butt-stock. I really don't like the plain black. I'm NOT painting a full pattern though. I just want to get rid of the all black. I'm not spraying the butt-pad, or the neoprene cheek piece. Just a few spritz's of OD for some flavor. ;D I'm also going to put the safety back in the trigger group, now that I have to run the factory trigger blade. ::) Anyhoo, I'll update pics when the grip arrives.
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Okay, I was mostly wrong about the valve screws interfering with the fit of the Brod in the chassis. They were definitely rubbing, but not nearly as bad as I thought. I took out too much material. Oh well ;D ;D
I took the cheek piece and the butt-pad off, and painted the rest of the stock. I felt that the cheek piece screws really needed some washers to help spread the load- the button head is a touch too small for those slots... So I painted the washers too. All OD green. Nothing fancy. I didn't even prime anything. I did rough it up a bit with some really fine sandpaper though.
The grip I've chosen I also have on a powderburner chassis. I really like the way it feels on the PB chassis, and no one else seems to be using this grip. Again, I couldn't wait. I took the grip off the PB chassis and slapped it onto this chassis to see how it feels. Let me tell you: It. Feels. AMAZING. I can either grip it all the way around, or I can do "thumb up" grip, which is really comfortable while firing. The grip is a bit pricey, but I think it's worth it. I also think I might have to find something else to put the .357 in ;D
Anyhoo, pics tomorrow.
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So here she is, back together again.
(https://i.imgur.com/5Rqcj5d.jpg)
Here's the stock in O.D. green...
(https://i.imgur.com/RmEQ390.jpg)
Okay, so the grip I chose is the "Enhanced Vertical Grip (EVG)" by MasterPiece Arms.
(https://i.imgur.com/RZJSDOL.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/PbM1KdK.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/fSUZlPA.jpg)
I really do like this grip- it's a bit pricey at $40, but I feel it's worth it. It may not be everyone's cup of tea though. It's as if the grip and chassis were designed to work together. IMO, the combination is perfection... Even though I don't like the trigger placement in the chassis, with the addition of this grip- because of the trigger finger rest (kick-out?), it spaces the trigger finger just right...
Here's a shot of why I don't like this chassis:
(https://i.imgur.com/ipIgHCJ.jpg)
The trigger doesn't look good, and won't fit any aftermarket trigger blades. Like it was an afterthought. JMHO.
Oh! Fun fact: Others may have noticed this, but I didn't until this morning when I thought to myself "Oh frak, I'm gonna have to take this apart again when it comes time to tune..." Then I thought to myself *sigh* "Wouldn't it be cool if I could just adjust the hammer spring from the back?" ??? Well... low and behold, I can! All I have to do is fold the stock, and I get access through the folding adapter/back of chassis. I don't know why I never noticed that before! But I'm glad I looked!
I'm definitely going to find something for the .357 Brod to go into ;D I don't want to separate the 6mm from this chassis anymore... Anyhoo- once that LDC gets here (maybe another week or so? No biggie), I can get to tuning.
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Okay, last change, I promise!! Accessories (scope, LDC) don't count! ;D
I swapped bottles with the .357 build. That Talon bottle is just too dang heavy! It totally threw the build off for me. THIS is much better! The gun feels hefty of course, but not TOO heavy. It's juuuuuuust right! Now, I can also confidently fill higher (this is a TT 3625 psi tank- older, 480cc) to get more shots. Nice. I can't wait to test this gun!!
(https://i.imgur.com/XTnIZ8E.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/66tHEBL.jpg)
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That looks great man! Now, what kind of numbers is this project going to produce??
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That looks great man! Now, what kind of numbers is this project going to produce??
If I remember right, it should be putting out around 120 fpe... But as soon as I get my LDC, I'll get some preliminary numbers ASAP!
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That looks great man! Now, what kind of numbers is this project going to produce??
If I remember right, it should be putting out around 120 fpe... But as soon as I get my LDC, I'll get some preliminary numbers ASAP!
Awesome! That should take care of business :D
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Awesome! That should take care of business :D
If it does as well as the math says it should, this will give the .257 a run for it's money! The whole reason Bob suggested this build is there were parts available (barrel and mold), and all the math seems to indicate that this should ballistically perform like the 257420, but be more efficient. I believe the mold I have is a shrunk down 257420 design... If the solid slugs perform well, I'll either send my mold in to Eric to have one cavity hollowpointed or just get another 2 cavity mold and have that whole mold hollowpointed... Not sure yet. I can't wait to test! Hollowpoint 6mm slugs should be DEVASTATING on varmints.
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I'm gonna have 700 more slugs cast for me for this project soon- That'll bring my count to 1,000 slugs in all. I'm going to send a few down range for tuning, so I should have more than enough slugs to last me a while. I'm not currently set up for casting right now. I have a PID controller that I have to hook up to my casting pot... Then I have to go through my lead- Unfortunately, I think most of my lead is unusable for airguns, as it's too hard. I wasn't that good at casting before, and it's been many years since I've done it. So I'm behind the power curve...
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Wow... So I've been reviewing some older threads (Mostly Bob's works), and this 6mm started life back in '17 ??? I've sent the mold off, so I can get more slugs cast. I was fiddling with the old Lee 10# pot, and it's... Well, lets just say it's going to take some work to bring it back. I'm going to reserve it for casting ingots. It took me a while, but I found a Lee 4 20 pot, and ordered it. I can't keep buying slugs- I bought molds for a reason dang it! ;D ;D Anyhoo, I digress. This project has been on the board for quite a while! I can't wait to test it!
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We're waiting for you to test it too :D
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Ooooh, Shucky Duck!! Just got a shipment notification from Neil Clague!!! Soon!!! *EVIL LAUGHTER*
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The LDC came in today!!
Y'know, it just wouldn't be a "Tom Project" if I didn't screw something up right at the end ::) So in my haste, I thought the CF tank and the AF tank I was using were the same length. I did all the LDC measurements when the AF tank was on the gun. Because of course ::) Anyhoo, I could have had another 3" or more behind the muzzle for some more help with sound suppression. So this rifle won't be as quiet as it could be. Oh well- I'm not ordering another one. Again- sorry for the bad pics. I'm going to wrap the LDC and barrel. I don't want to paint anymore.
Folded the rifle is 41.75" OAL:
(https://i.imgur.com/j3jCFOK.jpg)
With the stock extended it's 52.75" OAL:
(https://i.imgur.com/iA25zQ9.jpg)
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Looks solid, still waiting on testing results :D
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I had to re-slug my barrel- I can't find my notes ::) :( Anyhoo, The barrel slugged out at a hair over .243... So I'm going to size the initial slugs at .243. After I get the pressure and spring tension set, I'll size some at .242 to see how they group... Getting closer to testing!! I can't wait!
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(https://i.imgur.com/KiumXsL.jpg)
125 "Bowman" slugs, sized to .243. These are non-lubricated. I weighed 10 random slugs, and they all weighed 4 grams. Converted, that's 61.7 grains. Not too shabby! Next I'm going to double check how much air I have in my Great White and lay out everything I'm going to need/bring this weekend... Ooooh, shucky duck! Almost ready to post numbers!!
The next batch I'll lube... I'll keep y'all posted!
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Looking forward to your results. 6mm is an interesting caliber.
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Looking forward to your results. 6mm is an interesting caliber.
Same- this project has been in the works for well over 2 years- maybe even 3 years.
I think I'm going to set the reg at 2800 psi. I was reviewing Bob's original 6mm build thread, and when he crunched his numbers, it was for 3k psi and a 24" barrel for a hair under 140 fpe. But that's a "lofty goal"... So he felt a 28" barrel would be the better choice at the same psi. SWAG says 2.8k psi w/a 26" barrel should yield me at least 120 fpe. I didn't crunch any numbers... Just SWAG. ;D I guess we'll see. I mean, a lot can be done w/120 fpe. If I can get another mold, I'm going to send it off to Eric and have him hollowpoint it for me. THAT'S what I'm really interested in... Slightly lighter, but probably still more than the 46 gr pills available. Those will be interesting.
Great White is full, I had to re-assemble the 6mm (I partially disassembled to slug the barrel), and re-apply some teflon tape, and tighten down the larger gauge. I also changed the orientation of the reg a little... I had a small leak somewhere. So I'll fire up the shoebox in a bit (I wanted to give it a rest for an hour) and fill the gun. I'll set the reg to 2800 psi, and leave it over night to see if it loses any air. If I do, I'll get some soapy water and start testing. Since the gun was partially disassembled, I went ahead and did a half-arsed spray bomb. Just a solid color- I just wanted to break up the solid black of the LDC and the shiny CF sleeve. I really don't like the pattern/color of the wrap I bought this go around... Also, this stuff feels so flimsy. I won't be buying this brand again, that's for sure. But it's a good, quick covering for stuff that I can then hit w/some spray paint if I want to.
I'm really leaning towards getting a Tiger Shark with a tether valve for these test/tune sessions... Then I can keep the Great White as a back up just in case. The next 3 projects are all going to be slug/heavy pellet shooters: This 6mm, .357 Brod bullpup and my 7mm build. Gonna need a lot of air!! It might soon be time to upgrade my compressor!! *sigh* If I do, it's going to be between a Alpha90 or a Bauer... I'm leaning towards a Bauer that uses a gas engine (or maybe diesel?) to power it... *sigh* ;D ;D
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I adjusted the reg so that the output psi gauge is on the right... Tank pressure is on the bottom. Burst discs are all aimed away from the scope and barrel. Fill nipple is on the left.
Output pressure gauge:
(https://i.imgur.com/RGy6Ymd.jpg)
You can see the gauge and fill nipple are kinda angled:
(https://i.imgur.com/VMc0S9q.jpg)
Barrel sleeve and LDC hastily painted:
(https://i.imgur.com/hU3hhkx.jpg)
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I had an "oops" yesterday- quite frustrating. I was correcting the color of this terrible camo tape from Amazon, and got a little over spray on the smaller gauge on my reg. "No biggie!" says I, and proceed to try to wipe the paint off with some Acetone. SMH [Morgan Freeman narrates: it's at this moment Tom realizes he's an idiot]. I didn't know the acetone would fog the clear plastic of the gauge... I really do feel stupid. I lightly sanded the gauge face down with 1500 grit sand paper to try to salvage the gauge, but no joy. I did get it clear enough to JUST make out the numbers though, so I used this opportunity to see if I sealed everything up well. LOL, well of COURSE I did!! Because now I'm going to have to replace the gauge ??? ;D It's always something with my builds... It's fine though- the gauge face is ruined, it looks like there's hairline cracks in the formerly clear face plate; the gauge is too small for me anyway. So it's a good opportunity to just swap it out. Not really a huge deal. I replaced it with a normal sized gauge that's easier to read. All is well.
I also said frak it, and set the reg to 2800 psi. Bob's charts are probably spot on, and I should set the reg to 3k, but I might be able to eek out a few more shots at a lower fpe... I mean, I'm already going to see less fpe due to the shorter barrel. Again, 120 fpe is my goal. If I get more, cool. But I'm only looking to stretch this out to a MAX of 200 yards. On small game, I'm not sure if I need more than 120 fpe at the muzzle. Not sure how much fpe it will be at 100 or 200 yards, but surely it'll be more than enough to kill either a prairie dog or woodchuck... Of course, it may not be enough to allow a HP to expand. But I guess we'll just have to see, won't we? ;) ;D
Anyhoo, I'm currently filling the gun- I want to have a completely full gun and a full re-fill tank before starting today. From 0 to full in about 15+ minutes (maybe it was 20 min.)! I love this Shoebox more and more everyday ;D
*sigh* Of course adulting rears it's ugly head to ruin our best laid plans... I'll post numbers sometime this weekend.
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I WILL get some initial numbers today!!
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Well that was an underwhelming shooting session today :( I did no target work, only shot slugs so I can set the reg and spring tension. Again- Cothran valve. So I have it set so the hammer will crack the valve, but not much more. I noticed no perceivable difference between 2800 psi and 3k psi output on the reg, so I bumped it back down to 2800 psi and kept it there. I fill to 3.5k psi on the Great White gauge, the gauge on the gun seems to be 500 psi off, since it read 4k psi. The end pressure figures are corrected to reflect this. I'm shooting 61.7 grain slugs sized to .243. I will size to .242 to see if it'll affect speed... I'll only run a short string of those. I want to see how accurate the .243's vs .242's will be. But that'll be a little later.
3.5k psi fill, reg set to 2.8k psi output:
800 fps 87.7 fpe
797 87.0
813 90.5
806 89.0
800 87.7
800 87.7
806 89.0
800 87.7
803 88.3
793 fps (off reg, end fill- 2500 psi)
So, 9 shots... I did a total of 3 10-shot strings, and all of them were about the same figures. So I'm only averaging 87 fpe... Not exactly what I'd hoped to be getting with a 26" barrel, .250 ports and 2.8k psi output on the reg. I may have to pull a Bob and have a custom tube made, so that I can reverse mount a larger CF tank so I can get a larger plenum... I think that might be what's holding me back. I know the 26" barrel will hamper the max potential, but I don't think 2" would hold me back THAT much- Bob's calculations are putting a 28" barrel at 3k output at a whisker under 140 fpe, so I figured I'd be hitting around 120 fpe w/this configuration. But over 30 fpe less? I dunno. Am I doing something wrong? I can also see that the gauge that reads output pressure dropping from 2800 psi down to 2600 or 2700 psi before slowly going back up to 2800 psi... The only think I can think of (unless this is normal- though I didn't even notice this with my .357 Brod build) is maybe the plenum is too small? Thoughts? I'm grasping at straws trying to figure out why I'm getting such a low FPE with this set up... Or maybe I'm not. What say you?
The LDC was nice and quiet though! So there's that! ;D
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I'm being lazy, and didn't want to go back and look for the info... How large is your plenum? I would think you could make it work with 60cc, but 120cc would be ideal.
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That's what I'm thinking the problem is, but the Brod conversion tube is 11.75" OAL. I'm not sure how large of a plenum, TBH. It's either 75cc or 85cc... I figured it would be large enough for a 6mm. The same plenum netted me 130 fpe in my .357 build, and that was only seeing 2150 psi or 2200 psi regulated. Those .357 pellets are also heavier at 81g... So I'm stumped.
I'm going to take a look at the TP tomorrow- I'm pretty pooped from today. I'm also kinda dejected w/the results. But I'll take a look at the TP- I THOUGHT everything is .250" ports- exhaust, TP, barrel. But maybe I was wrong about the TP? Easy enough to check. Tomorrow. Now, I have 2 plans of attack for this 6mm project:
1: Pull a Bob and build a longer tube, and use a CF 500cc 4500 psi tank w/a reverse block
2: Modify the barrel and build an AF gun... I mean, I have the parts. So, why not? Plus, it's a Condor valve w/a huge tank... It might also be easier/cheaper to do. I dunno.
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That's what I'm thinking the problem is, but the Brod conversion tube is 11.75" OAL. I'm not sure how large of a plenum, TBH. It's either 75cc or 85cc... I figured it would be large enough for a 6mm. The same plenum netted me 130 fpe in my .357 build, and that was only seeing 2150 psi or 2200 psi regulated. Those .357 pellets are also heavier at 81g... So I'm stumped.
I'm going to take a look at the TP tomorrow- I'm pretty pooped from today. I'm also kinda dejected w/the results. But I'll take a look at the TP- I THOUGHT everything is .250" ports- exhaust, TP, barrel. But maybe I was wrong about the TP? Easy enough to check. Tomorrow. Now, I have 2 plans of attack for this 6mm project:
1: Pull a Bob and build a longer tube, and use a CF 500cc 4500 psi tank w/a reverse block
2: Modify the barrel and build an AF gun... I mean, I have the parts. So, why not? Plus, it's a Condor valve w/a huge tank... It might also be easier/cheaper to do. I dunno.
I would definitely double check that porting, and make sure you aren't getting any blow by anywhere during the shot cycle. Of course, it is a heck of a lot easier to make that power with a .357, than a .243. I do suspect something is going on though. You'll figure it out after you walk away for a bit and come back to it I'm sure ;)
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I'm pretty sure the TP is either .250" or .243"... Well, at least I hope it is. I'm also going to do some measurements for that reverse block tube tomorrow.
I'm also still kinda thinking about making this a AF build though. I'll do some measurements. I broke down the .30 Condor because it was too long. This may be another rifle that's too long. *sigh* But- that's a worry for tomorrow.
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Is your bolt retractable? If not that could be a restriction. Also I know Cochran valves don't take much energy to open but have you tried adding hammer tension until there is no gain in velocity at that pressure.
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I have been slowly working on getting parts for a Brod and have been reading Bob's "Tale of Three Brods" allot. While he didn't do that caliber at that power, all three (25, 30, 357) had much lower reg set-points (1800, 2000, 2200). It appears your plenum is around the same size, about 80cc. So, I agree with RS, something seems to be amiss.
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Is your bolt retractable? If not that could be a restriction. Also I know Cochran valves don't take much energy to open but have you tried adding hammer tension until there is no gain in velocity at that pressure.
Yessir- hammer tension is set to crack open the valve, and no more. Bolt isn't retractable, its scalloped. Or what would be considered a "spoon" bolt:
(https://i.imgur.com/AaOpcWI.jpg)
The bolt I have is on top. Picture courtesy of Lloyd and his .30 Mrod build thread.
I have been slowly working on getting parts for a Brod and have been reading Bob's "Tale of Three Brods" allot. While he didn't do that caliber at that power, all three (25, 30, 357) had much lower reg set-points (1800, 2000, 2200). It appears your plenum is around the same size, about 80cc. So, I agree with RS, something seems to be amiss.
Exactly! I know my build isn't maxed out for efficiency like Bob's rifles typically are. But I didn't think I'd see numbers this low... This is the first time one of my builds hasn't performed close to what I expected... But we'll figure this out. Or I'll build something else!! ;D ;D I WILL have a 6mm!
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A suggestion I got from another airgunner- drop the reg and just let the Cothran valve do it's thing... I may try that as well... I just don't like the declining velocity is all... Thoughts on this path?
Also, just reading through the first few posts on Bob's "Tale of THREE BRods" thread (Thanks for the reminder Fuzzy!), it seems the plenum size of the tube (the ones from Bob's thread look to be the same size as mine) is only around 69cc's. But when you add the collective volumes from the Cothran valve and the drop block, that'll bring the number up to 80cc+ of plenum. Which should be large enough for .25 and .30 slugs if compensated with higher set pressure to compensate (it is slightly small for .25 and .30 slugs)... So said the thread. So with a 6mm at less than 70gr, this platform should be able to get at least 100-120 fpe.
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Well, I feel dumb... Some issues have come up ::)
So I took the upper off to check the TP and such. To my complete surprise (shock and horror too), none of these ports are .250". Not even close. The exhaust port is .170" (as near as I can measure), and the TP (and probably barrel port- I haven't pulled the barrel yet) is .160". THERE'S my problem. No wonder I was getting a measly 87 fpe average.
But this raises another question. Since ALL Cothrans that I know of have .250 port sizes, Is this even a Cothran valve? I'll disassemble further once I've de-gassed, and post pics. I've been told Mr. Cothran made a reducer for his valves, I HOPE that this reducer was mistakenly installed somewhere along the line, and I can simply remove it. I'll still have to have the tube, breech and barrel modified, along with having a new TP made... But at least then I'll see the max potential given my set up.
Again, this is if I don't just modify the barrel to have it put into a AF Condor. Still debating this. The fully assembled Condor will be 40" OAL w/o the LDC attached. That's 12.5" shorter than the fully extended Brod conversion. So it's definitely a consideration.
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A suggestion I got from another airgunner- drop the reg and just let the Cothran valve do it's thing... I may try that as well... I just don't like the declining velocity is all... Thoughts on this path?
Also, just reading through the first few posts on Bob's "Tale of THREE BRods" thread (Thanks for the reminder Fuzzy!), it seems the plenum size of the tube (the ones from Bob's thread look to be the same size as mine) is only around 69cc's. But when you add the collective volumes from the Cothran valve and the drop block, that'll bring the number up to 80cc+ of plenum. Which should be large enough for .25 and .30 slugs if compensated with higher set pressure to compensate (it is slightly small for .25 and .30 slugs)... So said the thread. So with a 6mm at less than 70gr, this platform should be able to get at least 100-120 fpe.
Yea, spent some time on that post because I came up with a lower number and wasn't taking valve and drop block into consideration. In my case, the 30 cal data is what I was after, and seeing he was getting near 100fpe at 2k reg, was nice to see.
You will figure it out. If building was frustration free, everyone would be doing it. :)
PS: and it looks like you found it while I was typing! :)
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You will figure it out. If building was frustration free, everyone would be doing it. :)
PS: and it looks like you found it while I was typing! :)
Yessir! I found the most likely problem! ;D Now what to do to fix it? Hmmmm...
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Don offered 2 different size Cothran valves. The one with the smaller transfer port has a proportionately smaller throat as well as balance chamber. It is a very good valve for .25 and .30 pellet shooters, or perhaps the odd .17 and .22 slug shooter.
whomever recommended to try it unregulated may be onto something----you may find it does what you want it to and rather efficiently due to the smaller transfer. I would have to try.....
As a sidenote, I like mixing Cothran parts by running the smaller balance chamber in my .250 transfer, Cothran equipped guns. I find it closes faster and allows for more tune-ability due to lowering the balance ratio....
If your valve has an aluminum body, with a brass core, a steel balance chamber piston, steel balance chamber attached to the poppet, a soft plastic nylon-like poppet seal, and a stepped rod floating loose in the valve stem, you have a Cothran Powerhouse for the Marauder rifle....
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Don offered 2 different size Cothran valves.
whomever recommended to try it unregulated may be onto something----you may find it does what you want it to and rather efficiently due to the smaller transfer. I would have to try.....
As a sidenote, I like mixing Cothran parts by running the smaller balance chamber in my .250 transfer, Cothran equipped guns. I find it closes faster and allows for more tune-ability due to lowering the balance ratio....
If your valve has an aluminum body, with a brass core, a steel balance chamber piston, steel balance chamber attached to the poppet, a soft plastic nylon-like poppet seal, and a stepped rod floating loose in the valve stem, you have a Cothran Powerhouse for the Marauder rifle....
Once it's done de-gassing, I'll for sure check it all out. I didn't know the Powerhouse valves came in 2 configurations! I thought they only came with .250" exhaust. I sent you a PM mackeral5...
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Okay... SOME good news- I have a normal Cothran valve, w/.250" exhaust port. There was just a reducer in the valve.
(https://i.imgur.com/86p9dYv.jpg)
But the decision still stands: Do I modify the tube, breech, barrel and have a new TP made all in .250", or do I just re-purpose the barrel and slap it in a AF gun? I'm really going to have to think on this.
Brod
Pros: All the parts are on-hand, is regulated
Cons: Heavy as it's currently configured, LONG, parts need to be modified/made
Condor
Pros: Slightly shorter, lighter, 99% of parts are on-hand
Cons: Have to have barrel made, it's only slightly shorter than Brod, unregulated hammer.
*facepalm* Decisions, decisions.
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Now that you've found the problem, I say stick to this build myself. High power/regulation tip this one in your favor, imo.
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*sigh* You're probably right... I should probably just stick to this build for now...
I'll have to:
- Open up the Barrel port
- Open up the Breech for larger TP
- Open up the tube for larger TP
- Have new TP made
All the ports will be .250", just to make sure I have max flow. I may have to re-do the bolt as well, and go back to a probe design... Again, for better flow. I could also take the time to have the bore in the breech for the sleeve deepened (it's not as deep as I'd like). Basically, I'm starting all over again. See, this is why I was debating in the first place! ;D ;D
Okay- that's the game plan. Quick thought on making this set up lighter:
- Armada main chassis
- Same stock/folding adapter as the Aluminium chassis
- Saber Tactical tank bi-pod mount because Armada chassis won't have a place to mount a bipod.
It won't be as pretty, but it should be lighter.
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After sleeping on it, I do feel better about going forward w/the Brod build, as opposed to converting the barrel for AF use. Even though I have already removed some of the CF sleeve, I have more than enough to re-do the sleeving that I removed. There's a short section of barrel that was machined to .50" that needed to stay the original O.D. and that little section was one of the area's of Loctite that didn't cure- too big of a gap I suppose. JB Weld will definitely fill it, in addition to filling the seam between the 2 sections of CF. Now, it could be argued that because I'm using 2 different adhesives that it'll change the harmonics. Well, that's probably true- to an extent. But will it really make that much of a difference in our case? I guess we'll find out, when I get this back together and start shooting groups. Not like anyone else would ever be in a situation like this- 2 different adhesives whilst sleeving a barrel. But I suppose it may be useful information to squirrel away.
Re-doing the project (I mean, that's basically what I'm doing ::) ) also allows me to fix some nagging issues I have:
- Barrel sleeve depth (I want the sleeve to seat deeper into the breech)
- The weight of rifle (It's a little too heavy for my liking)
- The trigger blade (both location and type- I want to use my RAW trigger blade!)
- Bipod location (I want it further out)
The good news is, I have a good TP I can copy- from my .357 build! I didn't even think about it before... Since I'm having a new tube made for the .357, I'll use the .357 tube on this build... One less thing to machine. So really, all that has to be done is modify the breech and open up the barrel port. I'd use the TP from the .357, but I need it for assembling the .357 Brod in the future, so I'll just copy the TP, and use the original for the .357 when the time comes.
I'm leaning towards making a new bolt as well- I'd like to use my Daystate bolt handle. Also, isn't a probe better for flow than a spoon bolt, over a certain caliber and/or power level? Regardless. I'm considering it. Might as well do it now, since the gun is apart. Do it right the first time, right? ;D ::) ;D ;D
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Breech TP hole is done. The breech TP is laughable, but will be serviceable. The new TP will be made to fit the breech better anyway, so I'm not worried about it. I just used the TP I have on hand to get close. The barrel port has been drilled out to .250", and the area smoothed.
Could someone please tell me the o-ring size for the barrel o-ring for a Gen2 Mrod? TIA!!
Still a lot of work ahead, but at least some forward motion has occurred.
I'll also order the Armada chassis today. ::)
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The new porting should definitely breathe some new life into this gun :D
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This build will be going back together sooner than I thought. It's still a little ways out, but since I did some of the work myself (ugly, but servicable- no one will see it anyway!), all that needs to be done is the new bolt and TP. I made a compromise on the deeper barrel sleeve boring. It's currently deeper than .243, so I'll be fine with that. I've also already epoxied on the replacement sleeve, that'll be cured tomorrow.
I may even forego the new bolt and just have a new TP made... I really want to shoot this gun!
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I was doing some thinking on that Armada chassis. I'm not going to fill anything in. The purpose of using an Armada chassis (other than the trigger stuff) is because it's lighter than the RAI chassis. So unless I'm doing some trimming, I'm just going to leave it alone. Anything I do to smooth it out or fill in holes will just add weight. I'm still going to paint it though ;)
JB Weld is set, and I've sanded down the joint between the new sleeve and original sleeve. I've also thrown on a layer of paint to blend everything together... Looks pretty darn good (to me). So now, I'm just waiting to mail off this TP and breech to have the new TP made. We're still discussing the bolt design...
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Not much of an update. I switched up the configuration of the Flex reg.
Where the tank pressure gauge is now, used to be where the fill nipple was (on the left of the gun):
(https://i.imgur.com/dLbiUyE.jpg)
Fill nipple is where the tank pressure gauge used to be (bottom):
(https://i.imgur.com/SU7PbOL.jpg)
Output pressure hole is plugged and I moved the gauge to the right side of the Brod conversion block:
(https://i.imgur.com/6B8gjIZ.jpg)
I'll make the Teflon tape look more tidy once I know everything is properly sealed up. I don't know what I was thinking putting the tank pressure gauge on the bottom ::) I really should have known better!
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The new porting should definitely breathe some new life into this gun :D
I sure hope so! I'm not sure how I missed this response!
I really REALLY hope w/the new port size that I'll see over 100 fpe at 2800 psi. Lets all cross our fingers! ;D
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What did you use to take the gauge off? Vice grips? :o
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What did you use to take the gauge off? Vice grips? :o
A gauge wrench I picked up from some UK airgun store. It's a chicom gauge I had laying around... That's just paint scuffing. The gauge works fine (it's a little off- reads 500 psi higher). It does look pretty bad in those pics though...
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I was doing some thinking on that Armada chassis. I'm not going to fill anything in. The purpose of using an Armada chassis (other than the trigger stuff) is because it's lighter than the RAI chassis. So unless I'm doing some trimming, I'm just going to leave it alone. Anything I do to smooth it out or fill in holes will just add weight. I'm still going to paint it though ;)
When I was considering the armada stock for my Brod, was contemplating cutting off the gauge area. I wasn't looking at it for any significant weight savings, but more of an ergo thing. The balance point was on that angled section, and that was never comfortable to me. I didn't have one in my hand to see if it was feasible or would pose any structural issues, though. Just thought I'd throw that out to ya. ;)
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When I was considering the armada stock for my Brod, was contemplating cutting off the gauge area. I wasn't looking at it for any significant weight savings, but more of an ergo thing. The balance point was on that angled section, and that was never comfortable to me. I didn't have one in my hand to see if it was feasible or would pose any structural issues, though. Just thought I'd throw that out to ya. ;)
I was thinking the same thing- cutting it off just behind the gauge section... I really only need from the stock screw back. I just want to make sure there's enough left so the chassis won't crack when the stock screw is tightened down.
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So in another Brod thread, buldawg76 brought something up that's always in the back of my mind: putting a bipod on a tank. Even though I've done it before, I'm always kind of leery of doing it. Which brings us to this idea that I've had floating in my head...
I'm less leery of attaching things to the Mrod's main tube... Like, with something like a scope ring... I've just recently found out about Accuracy Solution's "BipodEXT". Looks interesting, to say the least. I'm not going to pay that kind of money for a extended bipod mount though...
So I'm thinking about building my own... I'm going to get some 35mm scope rings- I'm going to have to shim them for use on the Mrod tube though. I'll need to figure out the telescoping CF tubes, as well as the locking latches. The base (gun-side of this contraption) will look goofy, since it will essentially be a block of Aluminium- but I need to be able to clear the bottle. It'll be slow going, but I'll update when I can. The idea has grown on me, as I've seen bipod extension rails done up for the Impact and Prophet (Priest). Plus I can put the bipod out as far as I'd like. Fully collapsed, the bipod will sit right at the end of the bottle. Eh, we'll see what happens.
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Whew! Now I can see why that extendable bipod mount is so dang expensive!! After finding some appropriate materials, what Accuracy Solutions is selling them for, almost seems like a bargain!
The plan right now is 2 sections of telescoping CF tube, w/1 lever lock. Just for those it's about $175. There's also the sections of M1913 rail, and then there's the 2 sets of scope rings (35mm) for about $40 to attach it to the gun... I'm still going to try to make one, but just in the CF tube, lever lock and rings, that's close to or over half the cost of the real system... ???
I want to keep the sections as short as possible, so they're more rigid. I don't want this DIY version to extend out as far as the real version- I don't need it to. I'm interested to see how this turns out and performs!
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So, I kind of did a thing...
(https://i.imgur.com/zVAxJFv.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/uh4AWOW.jpg)
Full bore (.250") TP from my .357 on the left, and the one I made for this 6mm on the right. I only used the .357 one as a basic pattern for the one I made. The TP I made tonight fits my breech and tube VERY well... that's why it looks so much bigger than the .357 one. It's also .250", to match the barrel and Cothran valve. It may not work, and I'll make another if it doesn't. But not gonna lie. For as simple as this TP is, I'm pretty proud of it. *crosses fingers* I hope it works... I really want to shoot this thing! ;D I'm also not going to have a new bolt made. I'm just going to run the one I have.
The gun is back together, I'm going to fill it tomorrow to check for leaks. I'm still waiting for the Armada chassis. I also installed the RAW trigger blade back into the trigger group.
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I didn't check for leaks- a member here graciously donated some gauges and rubber gauge protectors to the project, so I'm going to wait for those before filling and checking for leaks.
I ordered some 35mm scope rings and some 30mm O.D. CF tube today, so I can start figuring out how I'm going to do up this DIY bipod extension thing. How it's probably going to be assembled:
- 35mm picatinny rings on the Mrod tube
- Section of picatinny rail
- Aluminium drop block (don't know how tall yet- but I'm only making it as tall as absolutely needed to clear the tank)
- Section of picatinny rail
- DIY bipod extension using 30mm quick release rings... Probably a section of picatinny rail on the end of the tube to mount the bipod onto.
I definitely want to use quick release rings on the bipod extension because I want the option of quickly removing it from the rifle if I want to. I'm going to re-purpose some 30mm quick release rings I've got for this project. I've also changed my mind about making this a telescoping bipod extension, and I'm going to experiment with just a single tube for now... It'll be far cheaper this way, and faster to get a working bipod extension made.
I'm going to machine some aluminium plugs for the inside of the tube, so on one end the scope rings have something solid to compress down on (not just a hollow tube), and on the bipod end, I have something solid to thread into, for the screws to mount the picatinny rail to the CF tube. I'm thinking I'll machine a short plug for each scope ring- they'll only be slightly longer than the scope rings are wide. That way, I don't have a 4" long aluminium bar on one end. That would defeat the purpose of trying to keep this bipod extension light weight... Same goes for the bipod end- Though I think it'll be just a single, longer aluminium plug, as I don't plan on having a long section of picatinny rail at the end of the tube. Just long enough to mount a bipod. Anyhoo, we'll see how it goes down.
A real quick thought about the folding stock adapter... I really don't like that it's not locking. I don't necessarily need it to lock, I'd just like it to not be so easy to flop around... I've been thinking of a way to achieve this: Use some strong neodymium magnets to just retain the stock when folded. Simple, strong, and nothing to push to unlock. Simply pull it. I'm definitely going to look into this when I get the Armada chassis in. That was another thing bugging me about this build. Even though I NEED the stock to fold (this rifle is LONG), having the stock flop around all willy-nilly will NOT do! ;D
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That transfer port looks great. I believe you will be pleasantly surprised with performance. The Cothran can now breath, and believe it or not close faster at the same time......I have a theory as to why, but let's see what happens before I elaborate....
I am anxious to see how she does now. Probably close to as anxious ss you are.
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I'm excited to see how this rifle will perform... I'm REALLY hoping this TP I made works out. I've got a new tool coming that will help make a better TP if I DO need to make another one. I've got some changes in mind if this one doesn't work.
It'll be a little bit, as I have no idea when the Armada chassis will be here. But that won't take long to set up for testing purposes.
I'm also still waiting on some new gauges to show up. I really dont want to get everything sealed up just to rip it apart again... AGAIN. LOL
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Good news and "I kind of expected this" news... ;D
Good news: I got my Armada chassis today, and there's more than enough room to lop off from the gauge hole forward. Best part is, there's more than enough meat left so the stock screw can be snugged up and won't crack. So...
(https://i.imgur.com/45O80x8.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/8HbFUSr.jpg)
I got a little ahead of myself, and didn't take that many pictures. Obviously, those pics are post-chop. "I kind of expected it" news- I had to semi fill in the front section. It was just too ugly and jagged to leave alone. You can still make out where all the voids would have been. I currently have filled the rest in with PC7 and am waiting for it to dry. Tomorrow evening or even Monday, I'll go ahead and shape it the rest of the way. Then I'll slather on some filler and call it done.
The main reason I needed to cut the chassis back is so I had room to mount those scope rings for the bipod extension. I might get really lucky and not need a spacer block, or if I need a spacer block, it'll be relatively thin... Anyhoo, waiting on the 35mm scope rings, and the CF tube. I might have to get a section of pic rail or two as well. Not sure yet. I'll have to see.
Oh! I also should be able to do that neodymium magnet idea! Will definitely double check later, but it looks pretty good!
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I rummaged around in my random parts bin, and found some useful things... I now have a more solid plan for this bipod extension contraption. Also, the CF tube I ordered is 500mm long, or 19+ inches. It'll be just long enough to put the bipod mount around the end of the tank. Which is right where I wanted it. I've also got wiggle room to move around on the Mrod tube, should I want the bipod more forward or back. Not much wiggle room, but it's there.
Which brings me to a snag. I will probably have to mill down some of the ring caps to clear the barrel. I don't like it- those caps look thin. But I definitely don't want the rings touching the barrel. We'll see what's up. I've only got a hair over 1/8" space between the barrel and the main tube. I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to shave some material off the ring caps... There's little to no flex that close to the breech though... So hopefully I won't have to take much off, if any.
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I was on PA's site looking for something else and came across something interesting: Saber Tactical makes a picatinny clamp mount for CF tanks; I didn't know they also make a version to fit tube guns... i.e. like the Mrod. So- if my version doesn't work out, I'll just get one of Saber Tactical's tube clamp mounts, and I can still use the rest of my idea as far as the bipod extension. I hope my idea will work- but if not, I have a good backup plan.
EDIT: Or not. I just emailed Saber Tactical, that mount may not be long enough to do what I want it to do, and at $70 each, I'm not ordering 2 of them! :(
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I'm not sure if this will help or confuse y'all. Here's a bad drawing of what I have in my head with regard to the bipod extension I have:
(https://i.imgur.com/niXUWF8.jpg)
The Armada chassis is mostly done, I've got a layer of primer on it. Still need to smooth out the front where I cut it down. I'll just sand that area down a bit. I also still need to do the mods so I can add the magnets and such. I'll post when I have more work done.
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JMO Seems like a lot of connection and more weight. I would think all you need is something like what they use for the FX Impact.
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JMO Seems like a lot of connection and more weight. I would think all you need is something like what they use for the FX Impact.
The bipod extension for the Impact is both an extended rail and a replacement trigger guard in one piece. It's also $150. This set up could be replicated for under $100. I also have no idea on the weight of it. It could be heavier or lighter than what I'm making.
Weight is a concern- but whatever anyone does to make a bipod extension will add weight. Besides- 2 sets of chinese 6061 aluminium rings, CF tube, some short pic rails and some short sections of aluminum inside the CF tube for support won't be all that heavy for what it is.
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I think you'll be fine. Perhaps the design will change a bit along the way. It reminds me of how Scott set up his FT 5mm Mini Raptor....
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I think you'll be fine. Perhaps the design will change a bit along the way. It reminds me of how Scott set up his FT 5mm Mini Raptor....
It's where I got part of my idea ;D
This is the only way for me to easily accomplish my goal. I don't have the tooling or the jigs (or the experience) to make what I want to. Plus, what I want to make will probably be significantly heavier than what this fabercobbled thing will be. Also, this build is easily copied, easily modified/improved. It gets the creative juices going. That's all my builds are ever for (besides my shooting pleasure)- to potentially inspire people to do more.
Anyhoo, I'll find out monday or tuesday (or whenever the shipping company decides to actually deliver my packages) whether or not those 35mm rings will even clear the barrel. I'll have to modify them if they don't.
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Just been doing a little work on the Armada chassis- I want to finish up the "body work" on it, so I can move on to doing the magnetic "locking" mechanism. I compared it to the RAI chassis, and it is a significant weight difference to me. Even thinking about the potential weight addition w/the bipod mount/extension thing... Yeah, much lighter than the RAI chassis. I'm diggin' it.
Tomorrow I can sand down the epoxy filler and start designing that mag-lock set up.
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Y'ALL!!! I got really REALLY lucky!!!! THE SCOPE RINGS FIT WITH NO MACHINING!!! There's even a hair of clearance between the barrel and the top of the ring. GOLDEN. I'm stoked!!
That being said, OOF! This set up is going to be horrendously ugly. I mean, UGLY. But the important thing is, it works. Honestly, I don't think I'll need to put a spacer between the two picatinny rails... But I'm still going to check when the CF tube gets here. But it looks like the CF tube will clear w/no spacer. I've thrown on some matching spray paint over the scope rings and second picatinny rail to help blend everything together so it's not as ugly... From a distance. The gun just keeps getting uglier the closer you get to it. ;D ;D This set up doesn't feel very heavy either. I was a bit surprised. I was expecting more weight. But I'll take it. There's still the CF tube, the second picatinny rail for the bipod end, and the aluminium slugs on the inside...
This will stay on the gun. Imagine it w/a second pic rail on the bottom. You can see how much room I have forward and aft for bipod adjustment... Not too shabby.
(https://i.imgur.com/Jv6uNff.jpg)
This is the monstrosity.
(https://i.imgur.com/ygPkeZT.jpg)
I still have to shim the scope rings for the Mrod tube. But we're getting there! The only bad part is, I'll have to remove the bipod extension to fill the gun. But that's what the QD scope rings are for.
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It just keeps getting uglier! ;D Not sure why the first pic is blurry ???
(https://i.imgur.com/FXyMHet.jpg)
Here's a close up of the assembly, minus the CF tube. I've got some rubber pad in the Mrod tube rings to compress and create a tight fit. I used rubber cement to attach them. There's definitely enough clearance for the CF tube w/o having to add a spacer between the two pic rails ;D
(https://i.imgur.com/tUPg2eo.jpg)
This is what stays on the gun all the time.
(https://i.imgur.com/bGXQKst.jpg)
I've got another layer of primer on the stock drying. I'm pretty much done with major stock modifications for now. I can finally start on the mag lock stuff... Still waiting on the CF tube... I also still need to order the aluminium to make the slugs, but I want to double check the I.D. of the tube when it gets here, so I don't order round bar that's too big. I don't want to waste material...
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Okay- I finished the mag lock for the folding stock today. I've epoxied (PC7) the magnets into their place, and I've also epoxied one side of the lock into the chassis. I'm going to wait until tomorrow or the next day and I'm going to put the two mag lock halves together so I can locate the hole for the butt pad. Then I can simply drill and epoxy that cup in, and all the mods to the chassis will be complete.
These are the magnet cups I made today:
(https://i.imgur.com/fFTV4qS.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/55oshCi.jpg)
Magnet inside the cup. I didn't have a tighter fitting drill bit :(
(https://i.imgur.com/DcdcySv.jpg)
Hole drilled in Armada chassis for the cup, edge is countersunk for more glue surface
(https://i.imgur.com/FETQc4T.jpg)
Not glued, but cup is in place. There's a gap between the folded stock and chassis, hence why they stick out.
(https://i.imgur.com/fILu2Qw.jpg)
Magnet glued. They're mostly flush ;D
(https://i.imgur.com/mNNRLvK.jpg)
Cup with magnet glued into place
(https://i.imgur.com/P7PyTL7.jpg)
These small neodymium magnets should be strong enough to keep the stock from flopping around, yet I should still be able to easily unfold the stock when I need to. I hope they're not too strong ??? I should be fine, w/the amount of leverage I've got. *crosses fingers*
All that's left now is the bipod extension, and then I can move onto testing. Again. ;D ;D
Now that I think about it, I should have machined in a groove in the part that gets recessed into the chassis and the butt-pad ::) More surface area for the epoxy to get into... *sigh* If/when I make another mag lock, I'll be sure to do that.
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I am certainly glad I decided not to use the Saber Tactical bipod mount as a base for this bipod extension... I am NOT knocking their bipod mount! This thing is a serious work of metal art. Simple design, but everything just fits together beautifully! VERY nice bit of kit! If you're looking for a solution to mount a bipod on a Mrod (or FX) size tube, look no further than Saber Tactical... They have a similar mount for use on tanks as well. The bipod mount for the tank was the one I originally thought I'd use, but the nagging voice in my head saying "don't do iiiit" and a few other members convinced me otherwise...
That being said, it is WAY too short for the bipod extension idea I have in my head. I mean, I don't know what I was expecting- it's designed as a bipod mount, you really don't need that many pic slots to mount a bipod... I wish a longer one was available... Oh well- my ugly version will work just fine. I hope. ;D
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I'll get some pics tomorrow, but I definitely should have done a better job making sure those magnets were properly seated when I epoxied them in ;D ;D So the mag lock doesn't look very good, but it'll do it's job just fine. The magnets are NOT too strong, so I'm happy about that! They're just strong enough to do the job, which is what I want. Once I clean up around the mag lock, do some blending and paint, no one will even notice they're there. So I doubt anyone but me will notice that they don't sit exactly perfect. *shrug*
A little bit more to go, and I can finally paint the stock. Yep, I'm going back to that faux GAP camo scheme... I just don't want to do a lot of work for a paint job that I won't be happy with (talking about multicam). I'll just stick with what I know and like. Anyhoo, we're getting there!
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I had a 500cc 4500 psi CF tank laying around waiting for the 7mm Texan to happen. But then I saw on Aliexpress that they have a 1.1L (that's 1100cc's) tanks for sale. So... I did a thing. I took the 500cc 4500 psi tank and put it on this build. It's a touch longer than the original TT tank, and it holds much more air. It's also the tank that was supposed to go on this build initially anyway. It's a little heavier than the TT tank, but not enough to matter. The bipod extension will still clear, and w/everything threaded together, it puts the fill nipple and tank pressure gauges pointing down, out to the sides... Honestly, it worked out perfect. The gap between the LDC and tank is also what I had intended as well, so that's no longer bothering me. All-in-all, a worthwhile swap!!
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Okay, I couldn't wait for tomorrow, besides- I got the gauges that vdwb sent me, and they look awesome! So I wanted to get them installed right away! So I snapped a few bad pics for y'all...
Mag lock. Looks okay from the front...
(https://i.imgur.com/GEreusG.jpg)
But from any other angle ;D ::)
(https://i.imgur.com/Pz8YONv.jpg)
The holes for the magnets are fine, but there was too much PC7, and I didn't think to clamp it w/the magnet face down on a flat surface to ensure the magnets were completely flush. I should have done that first, THEN glue them into their respective spots... Oh well, this is probably not my last go at a mag lock... Note for next time.
Here's a shot of how the fill nipple and tank pressure gauge are oriented now, w/the new tank. It does look like everything will still clear the CF tube too. I'll keep my fingers crossed for that.
(https://i.imgur.com/7tmM0BF.jpg)
New regulated pressure gauge. I've never seen these rubber covers before- anyone know where I could get some? My google-fu isn't up to snuff.
(https://i.imgur.com/rLXGrNP.jpg)
Here's the new tank pressure gauge
(https://i.imgur.com/i9Ron9n.jpg)
Here's a shot of the whole gun
(https://i.imgur.com/U7vBqNf.jpg)
Anyhoo, I'll fill her up and check for leaks, now that there will be no more major changes. All I have to do is finish up w/this stock, the bipod extension, paint... Then we can finally get back out there and run the numbers!
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As long as ugly = accuracy etc. it is a thing of beauty ;) ;D 8)
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As long as ugly = accuracy etc. it is a thing of beauty ;) ;D 8)
Too true! Besides, I don't have a choice- if I want to run a bipod where I want to, I have to use the bipod extension... I just don't want to run a bipod mount directly on the tank. Tank mount always seems like a good idea at first, but I always back out of doing it ;D
Anyhoo, the gun is filled w/air, everything seems okay- no blatantly obvious leaks, and the gauges seem to be quite accurate! I'm VERY happy!! Now if that TP I made works, I'll be EXTREMELY happy! ;D
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I finished the primer for the mag lock today, and sprayed the first color layer. I should be finished with paint by Sunday or Monday... She seems to be holding air just fine. There's a very tiny leak somewhere... I might chase it down. But 100 psi or so over the course of 24 hours isn't a big deal to me.
The mag lock is definitely a success! The butt-plate and chassis snap together with authority, stay together when inverted, but it's easy to separate when I want to extend the stock. I'm very happy!
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No pics yet, but I finished spraying the colors tonight. In the morning, I can peel the masking tape off and clear everything. Then later, I'll assemble and snap a few pics. Still waiting on that CF...
Speaking of CF- after talking to luge007 a few days ago, here's the slightly modified plan for the end caps and slug; we'll call it a support ring, that's more accurate:
Front end cap will have a lip that protects the edge of the CF tube. The lip is both protection and more surface to epoxy it to the tube. It will also be partially drilled out (no boring bar, so I have to use drill bits) to shave some weight. Not all the way through though. The front end cap will double as the part that the M1913 rail screws will thread into, so it will run the full length of the rail, however long that is. So having more meat here isn't bad. Speaking of the front M1913 rail, I'll also be epoxying the rail to the CF tube w/PC7. The PC7 plus the screws- yeah, that rail is gonna be solid. The PC7 will also fill any gaps and effectively bed the rail to the tube.
The rear end cap will be the same as the front one, with a lip to protect the edge of the tube. I'll again drill out the center, but not all the way through. The rear end cap will also give the CF more structure/strength for when the rear most scope ring clamps down on the tube. There will be a support ring inside the CF tube, epoxied in place for the other scope ring to clamp down on as well. This one will be drilled completely through, since it's not an end cap. This support ring and the rear end cap will be a touch wider than the scope rings, that way, the rings are completely supported when they're tightened down.
That's about it- there's nothing else to the tube, other than paint... It should be pretty light weight. We'll see though.
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I was surprised when I pulled the masking tape off- the pattern turned out pretty good! As I was starting to plan out/make the stencils, I realized that the chassis and stock have a lot less surface area than I'm used to. So I had to adjust how I would normally lay down stencils, and how big to make the stencils... :-\ But I was pleasantly surprised with how it all turned out! Especially with the stock- there's really not much surface to work with there. The cheek piece will cover most of it up though ::)
I'll get some pics for y'all when I go to assemble the chassis. I'm waiting on the clear to dry enough to handle.
Something else I realized with the first iteration of this build- the way I had to set up the scope was kinda wonky. To get the eye relief I needed, I had to place the rings all the way forward on the breech's scope rail, and with the way the scope sat in the rings, I was lucky that it worked- because I had no more adjustment left! So I took a chance on a 1 piece mount (looks similar to those 1 piece AR scope mounts). It's got a bubble level (not that I care for the built-in ones), does both 1" and 30mm tubes (via inserts), and it does both M1913 and dovetail... The mounting base is 2.5" long, which is perfect for the front section of the Mrod breech. I don't have high hopes, since we all know these chicom combo mounts are never all that good. But for $24 shipped, why not? I'll post when it comes in. If this mount doesn't work, I'll try to source a low (or rather, as low as I can find) dovetail to picatinny rail adapter that's as close to the length of the Mrod breech as I can find. My hopes are not high, as all the dovetail to M1913 adapter rails are at least .5" tall. I'm hoping I don't have to have one made... That's gonna be a pretty penny. To be clear: It's not the attachment type that I'm concerned with, is the forward and rear adjustment room I'm after. Note: This is NOT an endorsement for this scope mount- Just a topic of conversation.
By the by, the gun is still holding air, I did a much better job teflon taping and tightening stuff this time! ;D
Link for the scope mount, if you're curious:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QVKSNJQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QVKSNJQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
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Well here she is in all her pug fugly beauty!! ;D ;D Well, I like it- and that's all that really matters!
52" OAL (42.75" w/o LDC):
(https://i.imgur.com/QzEPwUu.jpg)
42-3/8" folded (33.25" w/o LDC):
(https://i.imgur.com/lgcJto5.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/6y5MNXQ.jpg)
Here's a shot of the complete chassis:
(https://i.imgur.com/yLRsSqM.jpg)
Post-paint mag lock:
(https://i.imgur.com/b7EQg17.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/f9hjG2F.jpg)
Mag lock works too!!
(https://i.imgur.com/JkcSe0s.jpg)
I don't know actual weights, but this iteration certainly feels lighter. I know- there's no scope on it, but still. It feels lighter than before. Or maybe it's balanced better now? Who knows. Obviously, not having a metal chassis helps! ;D I'll post numbers soon, weather permitting.
Now I'm just waiting on the scope mount (I REALLY hope it works) and the CF tube for the bipod extension. I'm going to try to post numbers before completing the bipod extension- I'll need to take the Brod out of the chassis to adjust the hammer tension anyway. So I don't really need the scope or the bipod extension for initial numbers. This project is almost done... AGAIN. ;D ;D Much happier this go around.
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Very nice build Tom, can’t wait to hear how it shoots.
Dennis
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Very nice build Tom, can’t wait to hear how it shoots.
Dennis
Many thanks! I hope to send a few slugs through the chronograph tomorrow! I need to see if my TP works, and to make sure the reg is set right at 2800 psi (I don't want to go higher), and I want to see what velocity these full bore ports will get me. I'm super excited! *crosses fingers* Here's to hoping there's no rain, and this TP works!!!
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The scope base came in this morning, so I installed it. Worked out perfect. I have to run it on the back half of the breech, instead of the front. But I have some wiggle room now, where as before I didn't. I was thinking about bridging the gap over the loading port, as that would be the PERFECT spot- but I didn't like it. It would leave me with just enough room to roll a slug into the shot tray, but if if didn't load properly, it would be hard (if not impossible) to remove the slug to load properly. The mount isn't too tall either- I was worried about that. But it's good. Probably the equivalent to medium height rings. It is a touch taller than the medium rings I had before, but I have TONS of height adjustment on the cheek piece, so it's all good.
I'll post a pic later.
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When I finally got some free time, weather turned to garbage. So I didn't get to test fire today. The next week isn't looking too good either ::)
Here's the new scope mount:
(https://i.imgur.com/hoLBbJq.jpg)
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i think im missing something, what does the offset mount do? why not just use traditional rings? not trying to be a downer, it looks really good i just haven't figured out the benefit yet
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i think im missing something, what does the offset mount do? why not just use traditional rings? not trying to be a downer, it looks really good i just haven't figured out the benefit yet
As previously stated, with the standard rings that I had, the rings were mounted all the way forward on the breech, and the scope was also pushed as forward as it could go in the rings. The sight picture worked-ish, but it really needed to be a touch more forward to be perfect. But I had no more forward adjustment. Hence the new mount- I have much more adjustment available to me, and now the eye relief is proper, and the sight picture is correct.
In case you were wondering, I set the LOP properly before I epoxied in the mag lock for the folding stock, so I can't move the LOP (which is already proper for me anyway) to help with scope alignment, or I'll lose the mag lock feature.
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Nice job .... Pretty too!!
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Looks awesome!
You are a testament to preservence. More pics please 😛😛
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Nice job .... Pretty too!!
Many thanks! Not as gorgeous as your Raptor!!
Looks awesome!
You are a testament to preservence. More pics please 😛😛
Much appreciated! I don't know about all that- "glutton for punishment" would probably be more accurate! ;) I'll definitely take more pics during the bipod extension build, and once the whole thing is done. Looks like a week of rain in the forecast, so I'm not sure when I'll be able to get initial numbers for y'all. I wish I had an indoor set up... But even with the LDC, this thing would be way too loud to shoot indoors. Outside is quiet enough, though not at all "backyard friendly". Not that I would shoot this thing in the backyard. ;D ;D
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Well now, lookie what came in the mail today!
(https://i.imgur.com/FviR1Cz.jpg)
Gotta order up some aluminium, and then I can get to work! For as thin as this tube is, there is surprisingly little flex! Bad news- I won't be able to use my "over-bore" bipod. There's not enough clearance, as this tube ends right at the end of the tank. Which is fine. The tube more than clears all the important bits! I'm stoked!
Although, I have a little adjustment forward, so I might be able to scoot the whole thing forward and maybe I'll have JUST enough clearance to use the over-bore bipod... Hmmmm...
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Interesting under thingy out onto the front rest ?
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Interesting under thingy out onto the front rest ?
Yessir- it's the CF tube that's going to be the bipod extension. I just mocked it up to see if it would clear everything from the drop block forward. I'm going to make some aluminium end caps for both ends, and an inner support ring for the front mounting ring at the rear. The front will have a section of M1913 to mount a bipod.
Oh- and I moved the main mount as forward as I can, and I still don't have enough room to clear the tank with the over-bore mounting block. No biggie though. The M1913 rail will be exactly where I want it- just past the end of the tank. I'm happy.
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Okay... We've got a brief respite from the rain (it'll be back for the rest of the week), so I took her out to shoot.
Start pressure: 3600 psi
End pressure: 2700 psi
Reg set to 2800 psi
Slug weight: 61.7 grains
Total of 12 shots
Only going to count 9 shots (for my purposes), as those are all on the reg. Hammer is adjusted to only crack the valve and no more. I might, for S&G's just crank it to 2900 psi, but I don't want to set it right at 3k psi.
I've got some blow-by at the TP, but I kind of expected that. I'll figure out how to seal that up, and see what happens then. Next time I go out, I'll keep it at 2800 psi output for a full string, then refill and do a full string at 2900 psi to see if there's any difference. If there is none (or not enough to matter) I'll keep her at 2800 psi.
Numbers are still lower than I'd like, but given the OAL of the barrel (26"), the output of the reg (2800 psi) and the blow by at the TP, it's actually right at where I expect it to be. I wrote down the gross numbers, no decimals- unless it was something like ".96" then yeah, I rounded up. But that was just for the last recorded shot.
FPS FPE
865 102
879 105
872 104
875 104
872 104
872 104
869 103
872 104
862 101
----------------- AM NOT COUNTING THESE
852 99
856 100
843 97- 2700 psi END
So again, preliminary numbers. So next time I still won't be shooting for groups. I'm still going to be in test phase. But I'm VERY pleased- we're over 100 fpe, and the TP doesn't have as much blow-by as I thought it would ;D So yay me! I have successfully made my first working AG part! ;D ;D
Now to figure out how to seal this TP. I didn't machine very much clearance at all. I'm thinking about buying some flat, thin rubber (but what kind?) washers to use. I don't have room for an oring.
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That's certainly an improvement from the fist numbers! I'm curious to see what it does once you get the TP sealed up. I'm also curious about what it will do at 3000 psi :D I don't know how much that transfer leak is hurting things, but I'm thinking it probably has a wee bit more juice in the cards.
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I was mulling things over whilst at the hardware store trying to find something appropriate to seal the TP with... Once I figure out this TP sealing issue, I'll re-shoot at 2800 and skip 2900 and just go to 3k psi output. If I'm filling to 3600 psi and shooting down to around 2800 now, and only getting about 9 shots, I can't imagine how few shots I'll get from 3600 to 3k psi... :-\
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Tom, I didn't try to search back through the thread to see what kind of TP you are using. I've used some latex rubber tubbing pulled over brass tubing.
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=153928.msg155694680;topicseen#msg155694680 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=153928.msg155694680;topicseen#msg155694680)
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It's an aluminium TP I made. I think I know where it's leaking- right where the breech and TP meet. The TP has a taper on it at that spot. Overall fit is tight- also, there's an oring seal on the valve side- the TP "snaps" into that o-ring with some authority. You know when it fully seats!
(https://i.imgur.com/wakPbmu.jpg)
Funny you mention that TP design- I was thinking about that exact set up while at the hardware store! But again, I'd have to re-make the TP. Which I still might do. I have a better cut off set up, and I can now do a square shoulder, where as before due to my cutters, I couldn't.
I've been kicking around making one from delrin as well...
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Tom. I know sealants are generally frowned upon and messy, however...... I often use Loctite 518 anaerobic sealant for similar challenges. My crude fabrication methods often result in less than ideal sealing surfaces especially on transfer ports. I would almost be willing to guarantee you that with a little 518, that transfer port will seal. Of it doesnt, 518 is easily removed with acetone on a paper towel/qtip...
On another note, don't be surprised if stopping transfer port leakage yields results not exactly in alignment with what you would expect.....
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I'm going to try to make one from delrin... I've already boogered 3 of them ::) But I'm getting there! I think it's just because I was tired. So I finally just quit for the evening. I want to try to make it even tighter and maybe try some of that loctite 518 if for whatever reason I'm not getting the seal I want.
I'm not really expecting a huge increase in velocity- that's going to come from increasing output pressure. But I'd feel better if there wasn't any leaks from the TP.
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Yes, mechanical transfer ports sealed via CRUSH can work, but BOTH mating surfaces must also be parallel and flat.
using a material such as ACETAL which has some yield, needs to be generally made to have .010-.015" of crush maximum or the breech will bend in the bottom of magazine slot creating misalignment of the probe into barrel.
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Great numbers! I sorta wish I had something that hit that hard. (Other than pb's).
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New TP didn't work... :( I made one from Delrin... It does seal better than my original TP, but it's not perfect, and there's some other stuff I don't like about it. I also ran into the issue that Motorhead described- I made the TP a touch too tall. No worries- I'm going to make another one from aluminium. This time, I've got the tooling to make a flat shoulder. I've also got some Loctite 518 on order. I WILL get this sorted. ;D
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Great numbers! I sorta wish I had something that hit that hard. (Other than pb's).
Thank you! Yes, I'm happy the numbers have gone up- but I still want to solve the TP leak issue, and see what 3k is going to do. I'm not expecting much, but my goal is only 16+ fpe more... So who knows?
You could build a Brod... ;)
Also, I'm going to just test 2900 psi and 3k psi, no sense being lazy about things this late in the game, is there? Curiosity is getting the better of me.
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More aluminium has been ordered! Now we wait!
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I've got all my aluminium in, and I've been plugging away at the bipod extension. I'm making the final part today- the front plug. I just need to go the hardware store and get longer screws (and maybe a drill bit for the tap) so I can mount the section of M1913 to the tube. So the bipod extension will be done-done by Thursday... After I finish up w/the machining for the bipod extension, I'm going to take another stab at the TP... I'll get it one of these days! ;D But I've got all the tooling I need to make some nice square shoulders so we'll see how this turns out!
Speaking of the bipod extension- So far, it's not really all that heavy. It's bulky, and weird for sure. But heavy? Surprisingly no. At least, it's not as heavy as I thought it would be, considering all the aluminium and such. I'm pretty pleased so far!
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Yep, needed a new drill and tap. I've got the front plug epoxied in. Waiting for it to fully cure. Tomorrow I'll go ahead and drill and tap the 3 holes needed to secure the M1913 rail to the bipod extension. Then I can mix up some PC7 and glue/screw the M1913 rail onto the tube. Getting close to being done with this mini project! Overall, it doesn't really weigh a thing!
Tomorrow I'll start working on the new TP.
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Not really interesting subject matter to take a picture of, but here's a pic of the complete bipod extension:
(https://i.imgur.com/JaNsZp4.jpg)
OAL is a hair under 20", and it weighs 9 oz. for just this extension. That's not including the rings and M1913 rails on the gun.
PC7 was used to attach the M1913 rail at the front, in addition to 3 screws that thread into the aluminium front plug. PC7 is still curing; won't reach initial cure until tomorrow around 11am. I used Loctite 648 on the threads- I probably should have used red? Either way, the screws aren't coming out easily. They're not meant to be removed anyway so...
I'm pretty happy with the overall bipod extension project! The best part is, all I have to do is get another set of rings and M1913 rails for another bottle gun, and I can easily swap this between the two guns! Which is nice, since my .357 re-hash won't have a stock or chassis- it's just a Prod trigger group and a AR stock adapter.
All that's left to do is give it a light scuffing and spray-bomb it! Then I can call it done-done. Now all that's left is to make another TP, and I can get this 6mm back together for testing!
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I've started to sling paint on it now, but here's some "before" paint shots. I wanted to get some pics to y'all.
Mounted on the gun:
(https://i.imgur.com/odGMynr.jpg)
This is the bipod extension alone. This is what gets swapped from gun to gun:
(https://i.imgur.com/36sDgmY.jpg)
Just some more angles:
(https://i.imgur.com/TExMd7K.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/hfPJqWK.jpg)
Anyhoo, fun little project. Now I'm gonna start on the TP, and we can hopefully get this gun back up and running soon! Not like we've had good shooting weather, but still. I'll post again once I have this all back together with no TP leaks!
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You know it is the transfer port part I'm waiting on :D The other stuff is pretty cool as well though!
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You know it is the transfer port part I'm waiting on :D The other stuff is pretty cool as well though!
Already done, gun is reassembled! I'm dry firing it tomorrow, and hopefully we'll be good this time! If not, I'll have another go at it. Crossing finger's we'll be good though! I really want to get to shooting...
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TP still leaks... I'll have to make another. ::)
This time, even tighter. I WILL get zero air leaks one of these days...
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That's a bummer :( You'll get it done one way or the other, I have no doubt!
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Okay- some bad news, but there's light at the end of the tunnel! So don't worry. It will just take some time to get there.
This project is going on a hiatus- to be re-born even better! It's getting a new breech, slightly larger ports, the Cothran will have a slightly larger exhaust port, larger plenum... So the performance should be better than I had originally planned.
Reason for the hiatus is so I can focus on the reverse tank lower assembly project. I'm scrounging more than a few parts from this build (among others) to complete it. The reverse tank lower will be the basis for many uppers. With a simple change of the upper, spring tension and reg pressure, I can have multiple guns, w/o having multiple guns...
So again- this project will be back, and better than ever!!
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I'm going in a new direction with this build- I'm going to get a new barrel and install it on a AF platform... Haven't decided on Condor or Texan, but I'd prefer a Texan since I've got a 7mm drop-in barrel for one... All I'd have to do is simply swap barrels (between 7mm and 6mm) and re-do the hammer spring tension.
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I'm going Condor- it'll be easier, as I have all the parts, and a frame already. I'll get a set of top hats for the Ring-Loc valve (if it doesn't come with them). If none of the top hats are .243 (doubtful), I'll just drill one out to .243 to match the slug. I've also been re-working the stock I made a while back for a Condor build. I'm going to try and improve it a bit, so it fits better. I'm cleaning up some sections of it that are a little tight, around the fill nipple and gauge. It should fit better now. We'll see though. I'm going to re-paint it. I'm going over the stock and blending edges and such better. Just little things I wasn't happy with the first go-around. I really didn't want to toss the stock I spent so long making.
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Going a different route again... Maybe. The AF swap plan will be put on the back burner until I can figure out whether or not this other idea will pan out. I hope it does!! I want to sling some dang lead!
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Going a different route again... Maybe. The AF swap plan will be put on the back burner until I can figure out whether or not this other idea will pan out. I hope it does!! I want to sling some dang lead!
You gotta stop changing the projects, if you wanna sling some lead,lol!
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You gotta stop changing the projects, if you wanna sling some lead,lol!
;D ;D ;D
It's a bit of both, really... I gotta finish the project so I can sling the lead! The problem is, I keep going back and forth on wanting to get something done so I can sling lead, and just building my "ultimate platform" so I can sling ALL the lead! ;D ;D I'm pretty close to figuring out my dream gun, just 2 little snags to work out, and I think I'll have a winner. If I'm right, I might have my dream gun worked out and done by spring of '21- if the country doesn't implode first :( ::)
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For now, since I have the parts, I'm building this 6mm as an AF Condor. I did some measurements to see about using my 62 cu in tank for this build, since a 20" barrel will NOT be very efficient. My measurements and SWAG about using a TT tank adapter proved to be correct- the larger 62 cu in tank now fits like a factory sized tank. Nice.
I just need to machine the barrel and some barrel bushings and I can get this rifle assembled. If Mr. Clague is willing, I'll have a new reflex LDC made up as well.