GTA

Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 and springers ,rams => Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 => Topic started by: cosmic on August 18, 2018, 07:57:34 PM

Title: China clone go BOOM !!!
Post by: cosmic on August 18, 2018, 07:57:34 PM
Well, all was well until 4000 psi.. The sound changed and I walked over to it and was looking at it then Bang (&^^& my pants, parts flying.) !!Anyone got parts?? Piston was a few feet away and head units were next to it...
Title: Re: China clone go BOOM !!!
Post by: selittle on August 18, 2018, 08:02:41 PM
What gun was this?
Title: Re: China clone go BOOM !!!
Post by: cosmic on August 18, 2018, 08:16:29 PM
That was what is left of my compressor.. Topping up my scba tank...
Title: Re: China clone go BOOM !!!
Post by: avator on August 18, 2018, 08:26:25 PM
Sorry to see this and I'm glad you weren't hurt but... I can see this happening more and more if we keep filling tanks to 4k and above with these compressors. I would absolutely stick to filling guns directly to 3k if I had one.
Title: Re: China clone go BOOM !!!
Post by: avator on August 18, 2018, 08:29:27 PM
Did your tank bleed all back or did you get it shut off?
Title: Re: China clone go BOOM !!!
Post by: oldpro on August 18, 2018, 09:54:08 PM
 Couple questions. Was the oil level high in the crank case? How long was it running time wise when it let go?
Title: Re: China clone go BOOM !!!
Post by: cosmic on August 18, 2018, 11:25:11 PM
Just change the royal purple so oil was fine .. It was shut down at no more than 55c and allowed to cool to 20C.. Total runtime on the unit, about 50 minutes.. First time to try for 4500 psi.. The correct order of start up and shut down was always followed.. This was supposed to be a 6000 psi compressor..  No luck for me..
Title: Re: China clone go BOOM !!!
Post by: USAFANG6799 on August 18, 2018, 11:28:46 PM
Sorry to see this and I'm glad you weren't hurt but... I can see this happening more and more if we keep filling tanks to 4k and above with these compressors. I would absolutely stick to filling guns directly to 3k if I had one.

That's exactly the conclusion I'm drawing about my YH compressor. I think it's asking a lot for these compressors to fill any kind of tanks especially when you get to that 4500 limit.
Title: Re: China clone go BOOM !!!
Post by: Rob M on August 18, 2018, 11:51:40 PM
sounds like a high pressure leak into the low pressure cylinder .. not combustion..unless that's impossible?
Title: Re: China clone go BOOM !!!
Post by: rsterne on August 19, 2018, 12:27:18 AM
Quote
sounds like a high pressure leak into the low pressure cylinder

If that is possible, it could sure cause this kind of failure, IMO....

Bob
Title: Re: China clone go BOOM !!!
Post by: oldpro on August 19, 2018, 12:35:16 AM
 I seriously doubt its a high side leak, I have two of these and when theres and issue its always the high side piston failing but what I have seen online and looking at how its built is a main bearing failure or rod failure. My guess is it was a rod failure. Because you heard a change in the machine while running Id bet the crank either waked away from the main bearing or the rod was bending then broke. These compressors are underbuilt and Id bet they were vacuum pumps or refrigeration pumps that have been converted I seriously doubt they started their lives as HP pcp pumps.   
Title: Re: China clone go BOOM !!!
Post by: cosmic on August 19, 2018, 01:16:46 AM
I agree with Travis rod failure at the wrist pin but the connecting rod to crankshaft still intact,, Also possible bad cylinder casting..
I just don't have the bucks to repair it.. Hoping to find some parts cheap or free... Only me !!
Title: Re: China clone go BOOM !!!
Post by: oldpro on August 19, 2018, 01:23:14 AM
 Be cheaper to buy another one
Title: Re: China clone go BOOM !!!
Post by: Wayne52 on August 19, 2018, 01:34:51 AM
Travis do you think y'all will be able to get the 3 stage SPA, these small compressor's aren't really cut out for filling tanks IMO.  I can see doing a little at a time but extended sessions is probably what's killing them.  If I ever get one of these small compressors I probably wouldn't use it for filling tanks, just guns directly.

here's a REAL compressor
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/892/42068967235_422e86f3eb_c.jpg)
Title: Re: China clone go BOOM !!!
Post by: hollowpoint1911 on August 19, 2018, 01:56:32 AM
Holy @$%^. I think I might pick up some dye penetrate and developer and examine my parts for signs of damage. I've done a full tear down of my YH head and Vevor head (just like this one that came apart), and while the castings were rough, they didn't appear bad but this has definitely got me spooked. Although I have spare parts, I'm not really looking to sell them off. If you wind up pulling some money together, I'm happy to help you find replacements on AliExpress though.

Title: Re: China clone go BOOM !!!
Post by: msurf on August 19, 2018, 04:35:44 AM
Hmmm concerning, as this looks like the same unit I have. Seems to me it was a bad cylinder casting, as a rod type failure typically has heavy scoring in the sides of the piston.  Judging from the pictures, I don't see scoring, although the pics are rather blurry. 
Also seems the bolts should go through the head to the case, although I question if the case would hold the torque required to keep it in place. Bad design?
Title: Re: China clone go BOOM !!!
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on August 19, 2018, 01:10:18 PM
Quote
Also possible bad cylinder casting..

Sure looks that way to me. The bottom of the cylinder is still bolted to the case.
I am glad you are OK!
Title: Re: China clone go BOOM !!!
Post by: cosmic on August 19, 2018, 03:43:04 PM
Thanks I'm good after washing my shorts !!! By the way, I changed out to the barbed fittings after chasing leak after leak.. Here is some better pics..
Title: Re: China clone go BOOM !!!
Post by: cosmic on August 19, 2018, 03:45:16 PM
Looks like a bad casting on the connecting rod or the low side cylinder.. Minimum  I would need is a cylinder, low pressure piston, and connecting rod… Taking measurements now..
Title: Re: China clone go BOOM !!!
Post by: cosmic on August 19, 2018, 04:34:47 PM
piston bore about 42 mm, connecting rod from crank hole to wrist pin 73 mm , bottom of connecting rod 20mm ,wrist pin 12mm..
Title: Re: China clone go BOOM !!!
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on August 19, 2018, 04:54:01 PM
Is the chunk of connecting rod still on the wrist pin seized / gaulded to the pin or merely put in place to show the catastrophic failure?
Title: Re: China clone go BOOM !!!
Post by: cosmic on August 19, 2018, 04:59:12 PM
No just enough of it to hold on the wrist pin..
Title: Re: China clone go BOOM !!!
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on August 19, 2018, 05:09:30 PM
I think that is the failure point and the piston slamming into the head blew out the jug.... (Cylinder)

Wow... you really coulda died there.
Title: Re: China clone go BOOM !!!
Post by: avator on August 19, 2018, 05:18:36 PM
Tell ya what....
I have the MRodair Airmax Extreme MKII. It's a dual piston like the AV. I've been filling my 3300 psi scuba tanks with it. Maybe 4 fills since service. I have a SCBA 30 minute 4500 tank coming next week. I think I'll do a service on mine before I make my first 4500 psi fill. Oil and filter changes. Then I run slow with rest stops for the first time. I've never had an issue as of yet but I feel the need to be cautious.
P.S, PPE will be in play.
Title: Re: China clone go BOOM !!!
Post by: rsterne on August 19, 2018, 05:21:35 PM
I think Travis is right, wrist pin end connecting rod failure.... The HP piston (which is rigidly connected to the LP piston, right? ) kept the LP piston straight in the bore and prevented much galling.... The broken rod probably drove the LP piston into the end of the cylinder, pushing it out the top by breaking the bottom of the cylinder.... My guess, anyways....

Bob
Title: Re: China clone go BOOM !!!
Post by: oldpro on August 19, 2018, 09:17:13 PM
Travis do you think y'all will be able to get the 3 stage SPA, these small compressor's aren't really cut out for filling tanks IMO.  I can see doing a little at a time but extended sessions is probably what's killing them.  If I ever get one of these small compressors I probably wouldn't use it for filling tanks, just guns directly.

here's a REAL compressor
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/892/42068967235_422e86f3eb_c.jpg)
Yes were working on the details
Title: Re: China clone go BOOM !!!
Post by: MJP on August 27, 2018, 11:30:50 AM
Just simple physics, you double the load of the original design and expect it to last?
All of these pumps are build on a regular one or two cylinder shop compressor frame, designed to run max 10bar. And then added a new head with extra piston.
Now you have two work loads on the same crank and rod designed for the single piston at 10bar and have 10bar x piston area plus 300bar x small piston area! And you wonder why it blew up?

Marko
Title: Re: China clone go BOOM !!!
Post by: rws_53 on August 27, 2018, 12:01:37 PM
Just simple physics, you double the load of the original design and expect it to last?
All of these pumps are build on a regular one or two cylinder shop compressor frame, designed to run max 10bar. And then added a new head with extra piston.
Now you have two work loads on the same crank and rod designed for the single piston at 10bar and have 10bar x piston area plus 300bar x small piston area! And you wonder why it blew up?

Marko

lots of them out there....they should all be blowing up by now
Title: Re: China clone go BOOM !!!
Post by: bandg on August 27, 2018, 12:08:03 PM
I'll stick to filling gun cylinders only to 3k with the small compressor-they seem to work well for that but could still fail.  I think I'll be making a scattershield to put over the compressor when running as well.  As rws_53 notes, the actual failure rate may not be that high considering how many are in use and the number of failures that have been reported but any such failure could easily cause injury.  I'm now thinking I'll plan to buy a Daystate or Airetex compressor since they seem to have much more robust engineering and seemingly should last a lifetime for air gun use.
Title: Re: China clone go BOOM !!!
Post by: MJP on August 27, 2018, 02:50:24 PM
Just simple physics, you double the load of the original design and expect it to last?
All of these pumps are build on a regular one or two cylinder shop compressor frame, designed to run max 10bar. And then added a new head with extra piston.
Now you have two work loads on the same crank and rod designed for the single piston at 10bar and have 10bar x piston area plus 300bar x small piston area! And you wonder why it blew up?

Marko

lots of them out there....they should all be blowing up by now
More time passes and more will fail, but what do I know, I'm just an engineering student with over 25 years of work experience in mechanics and prototyping.
Title: Re: China clone go BOOM !!!
Post by: bandg on August 27, 2018, 04:08:33 PM
Personally, I think the small compressors are working at the edge of the envelope for filling 4.5k tanks.   Hopefully, 3k gun fills will not be as much of a problem.  It will not be that difficult to make a metal box with vent slats to sit over the compressor-this would allow air flow but should contain any flying debris from any failure.  I have a local fire station that fills my GW tank at this time but will be purchasing a more stoutly engineered compressor for tank fills in the future. 
Title: Re: China clone go BOOM !!!
Post by: Hoosier Daddy on August 27, 2018, 07:55:45 PM
Quote
3k gun fills will not be as much of a problem.
That is what I am banking my money on... and 3000psi paint ball 48ci bottles.
If it holds up to those I am happy.
 :P
Title: Re: China clone go BOOM !!!
Post by: bandg on August 27, 2018, 08:47:35 PM
Same here.  But I'm still making a metal cover.