GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Vintage Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: mentolio on April 01, 2018, 09:43:42 AM
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So I'm reading up on the whole "scout/scope" set up thing, and have decided to start looking for a long eye relief scope for use on either my Streak or maybe my 1400. It seems (correct me if you feel differently) that Mac1 is the place to go for the mount. Now how about a scope? Should I be looking for a "pistol scope," or a "regular scope" with long eye relief? I'm not necessarily looking to "stay vintage" with my scope choice, nor to get too speedy. Any suggestions as to what you are using successfully would be appreciated.
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Pistol scopes generally have about a 12" +- eye relief, Rifle scopes do not get much past 4". IMO pistol scope is needed. cheapest pistol scope I have found and purchased is NC Star brand.
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Before I went with peeps...I used center point pistol scope and the Mac 1 mount....ideal setup...good luck
PS mine was 2x20 while adequate for me ,u might look for a little more power such as the edge 2x7x28....
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I agree low magnification is ok at pistol ranges, but when one has the capabilities of a rifle, extra magnification is a plus.
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A Scout set up only works with a pistol scope. A Leopold would be my first choice followed by a Swift & definitely in a variable configuration if a budget allows. If not a 4X32mm is plenty of magnification for hunting etc. I wouldn't skimp on the mount or rings either. The Mac1 mount & Leopold rings are the best out there.
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Having a Ruger Scout Rifle; I have to say the your scope options, even amongst powder burners are very limited. Now transpose that desire onto an air gun; and your options shrink exponentially. If you aren’t using the scope on a springer, and are using it in the scout configuration; you can likely get away with using a powder burner scope. I’ve often thought about doing the same thing. But with my springers. Given the well earned reputation springers have for being scope killers; I’ve never actually attempted to do it.
But I am interested to see what you come up with...
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Just came in the house from successfully zeroing in my scout configuration with my Leupold Pistol scope. I had to shim the back ring. I used Burris, 1” Rimfire/Airgun rings I already bought several years ago for a Airgun Pistol project. These Burris rings were not cheap as I remember but it was at a local gun shop. The Mac-1 Mount is simply the best. My pistol scope is 2 power probably be happier with 4? There are specific long relief scout scopes made but I had the pistol scope and Leupolds are awesome quality. Bought mine used of the bay 10 years ago. So cost to me given I had the scope and rings in a drawer was the $50 mount from Mac-1.
(https://i.imgur.com/76u1Chq.jpg)
Changed the relief length but these Leupold Pistol scopes are very forgiving on relief.
(https://i.imgur.com/Y9K5EVp.jpg)
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Looks good! It'd be nice to see some snap shot on paper results to see how well the "scout" concept works on air rifles...
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Looks good! It'd be nice to see some snap shot on paper results to see how well the "scout" concept works on air rifles...
It works about as good as the shooter! ::). Mine was dead on but I was at a table with the rifle on my elbow not bags. I may try this week to maybe use bags to try to really test the system. But to me I am as much testing the gun. Can’t really separate the two. Logic to me is a scout configuration would be no less accurate from a “normal” relief? But higher magnification would be more practical with a “normal” scope.
Would the Scout Scope set up reduce parallax error? Seems it would?
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Looks good! It'd be nice to see some snap shot on paper results to see how well the "scout" concept works on air rifles...
Sheridan & Benjamin S392P
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Looks good! It'd be nice to see some snap shot on paper results to see how well the "scout" concept works on air rifles...
Sheridan & Benjamin S392P
That’s awesome are how are you holding the rifle? Looks like I’m following your lead, except for the shooting part. :-\
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It's difficult to sum it up in a few words Steve. ;)
Here's what works for me;
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=140500.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=140500.0)
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It's difficult to sum it up in a few words Steve. ;)
Here's what works for me;
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=140500.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=140500.0)
n
But your on a bag, never done that.
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But I'm on a bag? Of course I'm on a bag. If I wasn't I'd be off somewhere shooting exhibition for money. ;D
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But I'm on a bag? Of course I'm on a bag. If I wasn't I'd be off somewhere shooting exhibition for money. ;D
Hey man didn’t mean that in a bad way. I’m am just a rookie and never really took my shooting seriously. I’m going to school on your technique and will be interested if this old 108 can get close to your groups. Since our sighting systems are now similar it might be a interesting comparison for me.
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I know you didn’t mean that in a bad way Steve. ;)
Getting these results with a pumper off the bag is hard enough. There is no way I can come close to that off hand. These pumpers are not set up for this type shooting. Too many obstacles to over come.
I’m not sure what the 108 is like but I try to pay particular attention to the trigger pull of each make/model. So far the Sheridan's TP is by far the best (other than my highly modified 880). Half the battle is won or lost there. Practice, practice, practice, teaches you the exact moment the sear is released so there is no guess work or hesitation. Most shots are lost here.
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I know you didn’t mean that in a bad way Steve. ;)
Getting these results with a pumper off the bag is hard enough. There is no way I can come close to that off hand. These pumpers are not set up for this type shooting. Too many obstacles to over come.
I’m not sure what the 108 is like but I try to pay particular attention to the trigger pull of each make/model. So far the Sheridan's TP is by far the best (other than my highly modified 880). Half the battle is won or lost there. Practice, practice, practice, teaches you the exact moment the sear is released so there is no guess work or hesitation. Most shots are lost here.
I trigger on the 108 was very hard when I got it. Terry had the same issue with his. I took his recommendation and replaced the spring with one that was a little weaker and that helped a lot. Doubt it’s at the level of your Sheridan. Crosman developed a better trigger in the 60s but ‘I’m stuck in 1949.
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Changing the spring adds some relief although buffing/polishing the rough edges left behind by the casting of the hammer/sear adds tremendous gains. Not sure if you want to take it to this extreme but it is much easier than one would think & can be accomplished with fine grit sand paper. I would advise using high magnification & pay particular attention to all existing angles. Again, you are ONLY trying to smooth out the casting marks/edges.
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Changing the spring adds some relief although buffing/polishing the rough edges left behind by the casting of the hammer/sear adds tremendous gains. Not sure if you want to take it to this extreme but it is much easier than one would think & can be accomplished with fine grit sand paper. I would advise using high magnification & pay particular attention to all existing angles. Again, you are ONLY trying to smooth out the casting marks/edges.
It really is not worth it to me to try anything beyond the spring. I want to try to keep the gun as stock as possible to 1949. I have only changed two parts the trigger spring and the front sight pin. I am keeping both original parts with the gun. The interesting part for me is preserving the gun as it was but still enjoying it. And the new spring makes the trigger very workable.
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I've got a BSA 2x20 pistol scope on my Silver Streak. A 4x32 Simmons pistol scope on my Steroided Blue Streak, & a 4x32 Swift pistol scope on my Steroided 342. All are scout mounted on a Mac-1 IA scope base. All very accurate at my backyard shooting range of 27yds.
With a scout mounted scope, it makes it easier to pump the rifle because there is room behind the scope for a good hand hold.
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At the same magnification is there any difference between the accuracy between a regular and a scout scope? Seems to me the distance between your eye and the scope of a scout scope might help reduce the chance of parallax error? But I have no real idea.
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When it comes to a hunting situation, I like the scout scope set up better. With the scope further out in front, I have a better situational view. Which makes it easier to acquire the target faster.
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Someone posted here that 'scout mounting' will not work in low light, so this setup is useless for my Rat-patrol duties, ???
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But I'm on a bag? Of course I'm on a bag. If I wasn't I'd be off somewhere shooting exhibition for money. ;D
Bought a shooting bag rest today, I must be getting actually interested in shooting vs collecting!
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But I'm on a bag? Of course I'm on a bag. If I wasn't I'd be off somewhere shooting exhibition for money. ;D
Bought a shooting bag rest today, I must be getting actually interested in shooting vs collecting!
That’s good to hear Steve. I hope you give the tips/techniques I mentioned time to work. There are few exercises I enjoy more than this to keep my aging mind & body in tune with each other. If you haven’t already heard, Jim put together matches over on the Match Gate for us pumper lovers. Hope you take advantage of them.
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We finally got a 70 degree day in Ohio and I took out my scout scoped 108 for further testing with new to me bags on a table. Working on my shooting technique and getting better. No question in my mind the scout scope is the way to go. It seems to more naturally replace the feel of open sites given your one eye is not totally taken up using the scope. Having the breech open is just almost worth it all as well, pellet fumbles are easily corrected. Accuracy is a quarter inch at 30 feet, if I’m doing my job. I would like to get a variable power pistol scope given my 2 power seems low, but for my backyard shooting it’s probably fine.
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Steve, it’s nice to hear you are going all out in giving the scout mount a chance to work. Very nice groups (1/4” @ 30’)!
BTW; have you tried mounting a Sheridan hand guard on your 108? It helps a lot to cushion the free hand. Which comes in handy for a lot of cycling/shooting. I also use it as a guide for mounting the Mac 1 mount. If you look at my pix you will see that the mount butts up to the front of the guard.
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I've got a BSA 2x20 pistol scope on my Silver Streak. A 4x32 Simmons pistol scope on my Steroided Blue Streak, & a 4x32 Swift pistol scope on my Steroided 342. All are scout mounted on a Mac-1 IA scope base. All very accurate at my backyard shooting range of 27yds.
With a scout mounted scope, it makes it easier to pump the rifle because there is room behind the scope for a good hand hold.
These sound like a good set-up. I have several scoped Sheridans, but have never tried a pistol scope on one. I should do it since I already have some mounts .
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The Ruger Scout I have does well with this inexpensive option.
https://www.amazon.com/Hammers-Relief-Pistol-2-7X32-weaver/dp/B0081LT88A/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1523631323&sr=8-3&keywords=hammers+scout+scope (https://www.amazon.com/Hammers-Relief-Pistol-2-7X32-weaver/dp/B0081LT88A/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1523631323&sr=8-3&keywords=hammers+scout+scope)
I also run it on my LD Mark1
I find the Hammers brand an inexpensive good & option.
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I've got a BSA 2x20 pistol scope on my Silver Streak. A 4x32 Simmons pistol scope on my Steroided Blue Streak, & a 4x32 Swift pistol scope on my Steroided 342. All are scout mounted on a Mac-1 IA scope base. All very accurate at my backyard shooting range of 27yds.
With a scout mounted scope, it makes it easier to pump the rifle because there is room behind the scope for a good hand hold.
These sound like a good set-up. I have several scoped Sheridans, but have never tried a pistol scope on one. I should do it since I already have some mounts .
Nice thing for me is I already had everything from my hunting days with a pistol.
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The Ruger Scout I have does well with this inexpensive option.
https://www.amazon.com/Hammers-Relief-Pistol-2-7X32-weaver/dp/B0081LT88A/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1523631323&sr=8-3&keywords=hammers+scout+scope (https://www.amazon.com/Hammers-Relief-Pistol-2-7X32-weaver/dp/B0081LT88A/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1523631323&sr=8-3&keywords=hammers+scout+scope)
I also run it on my LD Mark1
I find the Hammers brand an inexpensive good & option.
Good to know about Hammers, I was looking at that scope great price not sure about the grey color, we collectors can get picky! Lol Leupold has one as well but at a $400! Yikes.
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Steve, it’s nice to hear you are going all out in giving the scout mount a chance to work. Very nice groups (1/4” @ 30’)!
BTW; have you tried mounting a Sheridan hand guard on your 108? It helps a lot to cushion the free hand. Which comes in handy for a lot of cycling/shooting. I also use it as a guide for mounting the Mac 1 mount. If you look at my pix you will see that the mount butts up to the front of the guard.
One awesome aspect of the 108 is that it is the easiest pumping rifle I own, pumps like butter. In the backyard I’m doing 3 (445 fps) pumps sometimes 4 (500 fps). Three is virtually no real effort, I just hold the wrist of the stock. The 4th pump isn’t bad but the effort there is just starting to increase. But for back yard target 3 really does it. 4 if the wind is blowing? Also no noise which is a backyard must, just the wack of the pellet. This gun and I are having a serious love affair. Lol
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Bad amazon pic of the hammers, its a standard dull oxide black finish on the two I have and the half dozen AO scopes of their brand.
At their prices I always recommend them as a starter scope for a new rifle buy, then decide if you want to upgrade after you have a feel for them on the rig as a whole. After that they are there as a fallback spare scope, or for the next buy :D
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Steve, it’s nice to hear you are going all out in giving the scout mount a chance to work. Very nice groups (1/4” @ 30’)!
BTW; have you tried mounting a Sheridan hand guard on your 108? It helps a lot to cushion the free hand. Which comes in handy for a lot of cycling/shooting. I also use it as a guide for mounting the Mac 1 mount. If you look at my pix you will see that the mount butts up to the front of the guard.
One awesome aspect of the 108 is that it is the easiest pumping rifle I own, pumps like butter. In the backyard I’m doing 3 (445 fps) pumps sometimes 4 (500 fps). Three is virtually no real effort, I just hold the wrist of the stock. The 4th pump isn’t bad but the effort there is just starting to increase. But for back yard target 3 really does it. 4 if the wind is blowing? Also no noise which is a backyard must, just the wack of the pellet. This gun and I are having a serious love affair. Lol
You're right Steve, no need for more than 3 or 4 pumps at 10M. I think I decided on that given all the pumps necessary to pull off a good series of bulls.
DARN...need to find me one of those 108's.
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I went with a Hammers 2-7x32 "pistol scope" (not really, more like a long eye relief rifle scope) mounted with a Mac1 mount, and some low-ish rings. I'm not a fan of the duplex reticle, but they are nice and thin.
Man, I knew this gun was accurate, but the scope really proves it! I saw a nail that was backing out on my shed, so figured "why not?" Took me two attempts, but I did hit the head from about twenty yards. Didn't drive the nail back in, but was worth the attempt. Thanks for the input guys, I think I like this whole scout scope set-up!
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I went with a Hammers 2-7x32 "pistol scope" (not really, more like a long eye relief rifle scope) mounted with a Mac1 mount, and some low-ish rings. I'm not a fan of the duplex reticle, but they are nice and thin.
Man, I knew this gun was accurate, but the scope really proves it! I saw a nail that was backing out on my shed, so figured "why not?" Took me two attempts, but I did hit the head from about twenty yards. Didn't drive the nail back in, but was worth the attempt. Thanks for the input guys, I think I like this whole scout scope set-up!
Thanks for this, I am really thinking about that Hammers, has pretty good reviews and great price. And it does look black, looks grey on Amazon. Only thing that was mentioned, like you they say it’s relief is really not long enough for a pistol. But that’s perfect for a rifle.
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Here is how I set up my 1979 Silver Streak that I bought from Marty. I also have an Open Reflex Sight that fits too! Both the Scope and the Open Reflex Sight are set up to fit on my 1377 pistol. Best Wishes - Tom
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Jeff & Tom, both of your Dan's look great! These pumpers were tailor made for the scout. Hope they bring you years of enjoyment.
...& Tom...too bad about all the snow. Hope you have a chance to try her out soon. ;)
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Jeff & Tom, both of your Dan's look great! These pumpers were tailor made for the scout. Hope they bring you years of enjoyment.
...& Tom...too bad about all the snow. Hope you have a chance to try her out soon. ;)
Marty...I shot about 10 shots thru the Silver Streak, 2 days ago. This gun that you sold me Marty... is Laser Accurate, smooth trigger and easy peasy to pump too. Thank's Again Marty ! With My Best Wishes - Tom
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I use the BSA Edge. Have a couple of them on various rifles. Good scope and not overly expensive.
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Careful Tom, that Streak may have you neglecting your other guns! All things in moderation😁. Someone's gonna call "Airgun Family Services" on me soon for neglecting my springers and PCPs...
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Jeff & Tom, both of your Dan's look great! These pumpers were tailor made for the scout. Hope they bring you years of enjoyment.
...& Tom...too bad about all the snow. Hope you have a chance to try her out soon. ;)
Marty...I shot about 10 shots thru the Silver Streak, 2 days ago. This gun that you sold me Marty... is Laser Accurate, smooth trigger and easy peasy to pump too. Thank's Again Marty ! With My Best Wishes - Tom
That made my day Tom. ;)