GTA

All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: oneshot61 on August 26, 2017, 02:03:26 PM

Title: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on August 26, 2017, 02:03:26 PM
My armada arrived yesterday... and I just couldn't leave well enough alone. The color is now oil rubbed bronze metallic and stainless. New valve and parts will go in.. in a few days.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: gendoc on August 26, 2017, 02:20:58 PM
very nice..... 8)
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on August 27, 2017, 09:22:11 PM
So I had a chance to shoot a string with just the straight factory settings.. and I haven't checked to see where the spring, hammer and vms are set yet. Shooting h&n 31 grain. Straight out of the tin.
783
765 (bad pellet?)
786
785
783
790
785
787
789
785
791
788
786
787
Not sure if that's typical, but pretty flat. I'll get my port opened and valve and mds hammer in next week, get a base line with the 31's , go to the 41 bbt and the 51's. This barrel shot the rat snipers really well as I recall. I'll need a .249 sizing die from noe for this barrel for the bbt.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: Smokehogan on August 28, 2017, 06:11:59 AM
Nice!  Will have to follow your progress.  I have a .25 Armada on the way, should get here any day.  Curios to see how your mods effect performance.  I'm gonna shoot mine stock for a bit before I try any performance mods!
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on August 28, 2017, 08:14:03 PM
I almost hate to touch it,.. but I have plans;). I shot 20 grain, 31 h&n, 31 grain rat snipers, 41 grain rat sniper rebated boat tails, 43 grain eunjin.. at 35 yards the all went into 1 1/4 without changing my poi. I'm sure things would open up, but it stacked each one in its own holes. Nice barrel.. I'm waiting on some 41 grain bbt before I change the valve and ports.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: Dairyboy on August 28, 2017, 08:20:51 PM
Looking good! Is this your first Mrod based build?
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on August 28, 2017, 11:46:37 PM
Thanks Dillon... it is my first build on anything. My first air rifle was a a2a equipped mrod with a lothar walther barrel, shot about 65 ft lbs with eunjin, loved rat snipers and was crazy accurate. I bought it that way so I was spoiled from the beginning. I sold it to buy my .25 ace.. which is a beast of a gun right out of the box. That said, I really like the versatility of the mrod platform, and with all the new valves , hammers etc coming out I just couldn't resist. I know I could buy something higher up the chain and just shoot it, but the mrod is like buying a jeep.. and then.. a few parts and there goes the budget  ;D. Even though I'm not machining the parts, there are so many guys making such quality upgrades and I'd never be able to match their skills.. I'm going to make use of their experience and build something I can enjoy. Cothran valves, war valves, mds hammers, shortys dual wound springs, huma reg, speed dial..  I've got quite a stash going on🤠.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: triggertreat on August 29, 2017, 12:00:28 AM
Enjoy the build!  The Marauders are a lot more fun than the upscale models because you can make them sing yourself without a big fat wallet if you want to.  Even with the great offering from ART, WAR,  Rocker1 and many others, they are still less than half the price of some of the others that don't shoot twice as well either.  Subscribed!
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: Dirtbikerick on August 29, 2017, 12:29:05 AM
Nice gun, congrats.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: Dairyboy on August 29, 2017, 01:03:08 AM
I absolutely agree Daniel! Your going to enjoy a build! I've had too many  :-\ got tired of it for awhile and tried higher end guns...we'll look where I'm at again 3 Mrods within 3 weeks. One wasn't planned but Rocker1 made a good trade offer so that's why it's 3 lol. There so versatile and can go so many different directions with them. Like you said all kinds of hammers and valves and HDDs and aftermarket barrels. No other platform has as many aftermarket parts. Gotta say I love them. But like you said budget can go away pretty fast when you look at a few websites LOL enjoy the build! I'll be following for sure!
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: FuzzyGrub on August 29, 2017, 11:26:30 AM
Nice accents on your Armada.  :)  If you look at Terry's (TerryH?) Armada threads, you will see some "bold" paint schemes.  :) 
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on August 29, 2017, 01:52:24 PM
Nice!  Will have to follow your progress.  I have a .25 Armada on the way, should get here any day.  Curios to see how your mods effect performance.  I'm gonna shoot mine stock for a bit before I try any performance mods!

Sweet! If you get a chance, post your shot string. Wonder if they all leave at the same settings?
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on August 29, 2017, 01:58:43 PM
Enjoy the build!  The Marauders are a lot more fun than the upscale models because you can make them sing yourself without a big fat wallet if you want to.  Even with the great offering from ART, WAR,  Rocker1 and many others, they are still less than half the price of some of the others that don't shoot twice as well either.  Subscribed!
Yes sir! This is going to be a fun journey! Two more parts on my list, bored out gauge block and the new valve when it hits the market. If I don't sell it, I'll try it in the armada. I'm working in Nashville for the next week or so, but thankfully I can test and shoot on my nieces property😀
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on August 29, 2017, 02:00:13 PM
Nice accents on your Armada.  :)  If you look at Terry's (TerryH?) Armada threads, you will see some "bold" paint schemes.  :)
That's what inspired me to try my hand at mine. Terry did a beautiful job on both of his..WOW!
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on August 30, 2017, 11:18:26 PM
Well... after taking my gun down, installing my regulator, cothran valve, drilling out the barrel port to.187,.. the cothran valve I bought from a guy on the yellow.. leaks. It appears to not be seating properly and I see maybe someone messed with where thevalve seats. Took it out and installed thecwar valve and held air immediately. I used the same o ring seal so I know it's something in the cothran valve. As soon as I put the tank to it air comes out the valve tp. I'm really bummed. Any ideas on maybe how to fix it??
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: dmeguy on August 30, 2017, 11:37:09 PM
Try cocking it. If the hammer is against the valve stem, it may be opening. The Cothran valve takes very little force to open.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on August 30, 2017, 11:39:56 PM
Yes sir.. I did that ..I'm using right now a war no bounce hammer and I pulled the adjustment all the way back just in case.. no cigar🙄 Even without the hammer in.. it leaks.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: kkarmical on August 31, 2017, 01:08:50 AM

What are you using to lube the o rings?  You say it looks like the valve seat has been messed with, maybe try re-seating valve seat and if there is an oring in that valve seat, try using this.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on August 31, 2017, 01:17:30 AM
No orings.. the poppet looks like Delrin?? Seats on brass. I've heard of covering the stem with electrical tape, chucking it into a drill and slowly spinning it to mate the poppet to the seat .. so I may try that. I use silicone grease or krytox on my o rings.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: kkarmical on August 31, 2017, 01:40:11 AM

I wasn't sure about the valve seat, but to me if you're having to rely on electric tape to seat something properly I don't know seems like a duct tape jerryrig type fix, meaning it's only a matter of time...
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: triggertreat on August 31, 2017, 02:08:08 AM
It can take up to 2000psi before it seals tight.  Rush some air into it with the tank and crank it up maybe it will seal.  I've had to do that before.  If that doesn't work, you can chuck the poppet stem in a drill and spin on low speed while pulling back lightly to create the form of the seat on the poppet head.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on August 31, 2017, 08:16:56 AM

I wasn't sure about the valve seat, but to me if you're having to rely on electric tape to seat something properly I don't know seems like a duct tape jerryrig type fix, meaning it's only a matter of time...
The tape on my he tip of the stem is to keep the chuck in the drill from scratching, scoring the valve stem...not to be left there after turning the stem😀
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on August 31, 2017, 08:29:05 AM
It can take up to 2000psi before it seals tight.  Rush some air into it with the tank and crank it up maybe it will seal.  I've had to do that before.  If that doesn't work, you can chuck the poppet stem in a drill and spin on low speed while pulling back lightly to create the form of the seat on the poppet head.
Hey Keith..thanks, I'll give that a try. I've got the war valve and regulator in. I'll get some numbers from theat today and then  reinstall the cothran valve and give that a go.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on August 31, 2017, 10:05:06 AM
First initial run with the war valve and regulator.

805
810
804
804
808
803
805
808
808
802
793
804
800
791
776
Only 2 turns on the spring, regulator at 1950.. ish, 3000 psi fill. Sounds like a lot of air coming out the barrel and it drops fast off the reg. I think I'll turn the reg down just a bit. I expected way more shots than what I got. And I want them shooting at 850. This tuning stuff takes a lot of air😳
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: Dairyboy on August 31, 2017, 10:17:37 AM
What weight pellets? Or slugs?
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on August 31, 2017, 10:32:31 AM
Forgot,.. 31 grain . Not much of a gain in fps and it seems to be using more air. Long way from my goal of shooting the bbt.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: Dairyboy on August 31, 2017, 10:49:19 AM
Only 44fpe? And that many shots...are you all the way cranked on the hammer spring?
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on August 31, 2017, 10:58:01 AM
No only two turns on the spring. Shorty's dual wound spring, war no bounce hammer with throw adjust flush with the face of the hammer, reg on 1950 ish. War valve 187 ports, hill transfer port. I'm going to pull the valve and check the spring setting, make sure it's closing fast enough, it's a used valve, maybe someone lightened the adjustment screw, I should have checked. May be why I'm using a lot of air, or so it seems. Turn down the reg just a bit and lean on the spring... or that's my plan.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: shorty on August 31, 2017, 05:50:06 PM
Hey Dan,
The numbers and shot count are real low for some reason. I am not thinking the poppet spring adjustment ( I didn't know there was one on the WAR valve ).

My biggest guess is a massive choke point somewhere, transfer port leak, blown barrel oring, or a heavily greased hammer.

Set up the way you are should have banged out the 40/40 and did a 50 fpe for 20 shots or so with 33.95's.

If it helps,
1) Do the silly tissue test over the breech and fire. If it blows around, it's either the transfer port leaking or the barrel oring leaking on the bolt.
2) Verify that the valve exit port and the transfer port are aligned and then verify the barrel port and the transfer port is aligned. I like to take the back of a .1875" drill bit and push it through to see if everything is aligned and then tighten down.
3) Make sure that hammer slides real easy. Easy way to check is to back the HS to Zero and shake the gun. You should hear that hammer bouncing around in there.

If all that fails,
I would have no idea why your getting the numbers and shot count that your getting.

Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: shorty on August 31, 2017, 05:51:29 PM
I think I just seen the problem.

The no bounce hammer. Pull that thing out and put the stock hammer in. That should do it. ;)
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on August 31, 2017, 07:27:14 PM
Hey guys, I checked the war valve ..the return spring was backed out. I fixed that, put in the original hammer and spring.. 4 turns on the hammer spring, 2 turns from flush with the hammer throw. Reg still set at 1950.. almost the same string.
Hammer throw 2
777
783
778
776
773
776
776
784
782
778
775
775
775
762
Shot this while you guys were posting. I'll do those checks here in a few minutes. I to believe I should be up near 50 ft lbs with a much better string. Something's up.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on August 31, 2017, 07:37:26 PM
Tissue test was negative, no blow by. I checked the ports carefully when I assembled it. More or less hammer spring or hammer doesn't seem to affect it much. Ooops.. I do have the stock gauge port in. Could that be why no more power? But why am I getting so few shots?? I should be getting at least another magazine before it falls off the reg. 🤔
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on September 01, 2017, 06:40:51 PM
Took out the reg, installed shortys dual wound spring, war no bounce hammer, swapped out the stroke adjuster for the one in the original hammer, spring at 1 turn in. The stroke adjuster sets on the face as it will not  recess. I took 2 turns on the adjuster until it just barely touched the valve stem then back just a smudge.
3000 psi 31 grain h&n
868
876
882
888
896
897
898
894
890
887
882
875
867
The sky's opened up here in Nashville and I grabbed my gear out of the rain. Need to flatten that string. There's definitely more in there and I'm going to shoot the bbt 41 grain for power later. I can put the original throw adjuster back in and recess the adjustment a bit and lean on the spring. I will also flatten the string with the 31's and see what kind of numbers I can get on a flatter string.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on September 02, 2017, 01:03:59 PM
Another quick shot over the chrony. Nbh with factory adjuster backed to the hammer, shortys spring with 2
turns in, 3000 psi with 41 grain bbt. These are way to big for the barrel. I shot them as is but will size some down tonight. I'm losing a lot of fps because of it. Shot for one mag.
800
805
807
810
806
804
803
805
Next round will be the nbh with the original throw adjuster recessed 1 turn in and the spring in 6 turns in, I keep forgetting it's shorter. And the bbt sized to .251 and knurled.


Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on September 02, 2017, 07:03:29 PM
Last tune for a while, replaced the nbh with the original, 1/2 turn in, shortys spring 6 turns in. I found some rat sniper .250 41 grain. 3000 psi. Also found that the spring was hanging up and fixed that. Im afraid to touch it after this.

816
820
823
825
827
832
837
837
840
835
832
828
824
818
815
I'm going to try the mds hammer when I get home.. hope for a flatter string but for a guy that hunts.. I like it.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: triggertreat on September 02, 2017, 08:28:22 PM
That's some nice power out of a .25 cal!  I ran some numbers on that last string and came up with a 2.98% ES averaging 62.3 FPE/827 FPS.  You also got 11 shots (3-13) within a 2.0% ES averaging 62.9 FPE/831 FPS on a ~2800 psi fill.  Looks like ~1.0 FPE per cu/in based on a 1975 psi ending pressure. I likes it!
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on September 02, 2017, 09:33:45 PM
Thanks Keith for those numbers! I need to pay attention to my starting and ending pressure and learn how to run those numbers. I think with some more time I can close up the es a bit more. I'm curious what the mds hammer will do when I put it in. Apparently I did not have enough plenum when I had the reg in for the power to be up where it needed. I hunt more than plink, so a lot of shots has never been my thing, but nice to get them. I really like the string you've got on your marauder though.  I think I'm going to get the new valve, sell this gun and do a build for my brother. He was a marksmen in the army, but doesn't shoot anymore I think because of the recoil... except his 22. We almost lost him to a heart attack. So the armada platform would be right up his alley, easy to cock with the new valve, no recoil and lots of shots with a reg. and shoot out his back door... it's a win😀
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: triggertreat on September 02, 2017, 10:58:38 PM
The mds will require more spring to reach the same fpe, but may give you a few more shots due to a shorter lock time.


Thanks, I tune based on the mods I have and I get what I get.  I let the gun tell me what its setup for and go from there.  Sometimes it works out and sometimes I have to start over.  I don't shoot paper either except for when tuning.  I'm more of a hunter type too.  That's why I like your power tune.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: TerryH on September 04, 2017, 10:21:06 PM
Nice accents on your Armada.  :)  If you look at Terry's (TerryH?) Armada threads, you will see some "bold" paint schemes.  :)

lol... that TerryH guy. He ain't right in the head.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: Back_Roads on September 04, 2017, 10:23:29 PM
 LOL but still some what of a ledgened here @ GTA ;)
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: TerryH on September 04, 2017, 10:24:55 PM
LOL but still some what of a ledgened here @ GTA ;)

The some what of a legend bar must be pretty low 'round here.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: A.K.A. Tommy Boy on September 05, 2017, 03:03:45 AM
LOL but still some what of a ledgened here @ GTA ;)

The some what of a legend bar must be pretty low 'round here.
Hi Terry !   Glad to see something from you !   :)  Yes Terry you are a legend around here !   ;)  A Legend On Your Own Dime !    ;D    Best Wishes Terry !    -     Tom Wood
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: FuzzyGrub on September 05, 2017, 08:30:28 AM
Nice accents on your Armada.  :)  If you look at Terry's (TerryH?) Armada threads, you will see some "bold" paint schemes.  :)

lol... that TerryH guy. He ain't right in the head.


:)

Where you been hiding?  Race season? 
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: TerryH on September 05, 2017, 09:46:17 AM
Nice accents on your Armada.  :)  If you look at Terry's (TerryH?) Armada threads, you will see some "bold" paint schemes.  :)

lol... that TerryH guy. He ain't right in the head.


:)

Where you been hiding?  Race season?

Hi John! You know. This and that and 50 other things. Sometimes life gets in the way. We sold the racing operation over the winter. Really nothing left to accomplish there. Seemed to be about $150k short of taking the next step. Electric racing is not for the faint of heart or the low of pocketbook. lol... A friend in SC is building an electric drag racing museum and he bought it to display there. Pretty cool deal. How have you been?
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on September 18, 2017, 10:44:56 PM
Well, I installed the mds hammer (from ART) and ran out of adjustment with Tims short  spring and didn't have a spacer on hand. I installed the 10 lb spring (also from ART)  and hit 69.49 ft lbs and immediately blew my breach o ring because of a rookie mistake. I think theres more in it for sure. That mds hammer is so smooth, holy cow what a difference. It came in at 47.9 grams as apposed to the factory original of 78.2. Ill get an oring and a spacer for the dual wound spring and give it a go when I can. I think its going to be a winning combination. What little I was able to shoot, I can already tell the noise is down and the report is snappier.. quicker if that makes since. Ill have little time in the next two weeks and blowing the oring today was a real bummer. I've had this for sale.. but I may just keep it now.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: shorty on September 19, 2017, 05:09:14 PM
Looks good Dan.

Surprised you ran out of room with the spring. I thought I sent you a 2" spring.

I know that lighter hammer is smoother (and lighter) but you may want to try something out to tinker with. If you can, port the stock hammer by drilling holes in it like the light weight hammer. Kolbalt bit or masonry bit. Or just use a grinder on the sides of the hammer.
You wouldn't believe how much air pressure is generated by the hammer coming home which slows the hammer down. You can also throw a set screw in the hammer replacing the HT screw and make it flush or slightly counter sunk in the hammer. This will allow more travel on the hammer. More travel more power.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on September 19, 2017, 09:25:29 PM
Thanks Tim,.. I thought it was weird too. When I get a chance I'll check again. And thanks so much for the tips on the hammer. I'll give that a go too and see how it plays out in the tuning. I have a press and can make my own jigs. Hopefully I can get back to it in a week or so.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: shorty on September 20, 2017, 05:42:34 PM
Dan I have another one for you. I am not sure how the armada is set up but this is a good read with pics of the mod with results.

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=112722.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=112722.0)
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on September 20, 2017, 06:59:20 PM
Thanks Tim! That's a great mod, I'll be adding that one for sure. I think I actually have a diamond file in my shop.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on October 24, 2017, 08:42:30 PM
Been a while since Ive had a day off, had about 2 hours to shoot before dark this evening.  I have a 10 lb spring with the mds hammer from art installed, and war valve. Fixed a leak at the transfer port, I was blowing air out of the breech area. I polished the hammer area of the tube with 1500 grit and its very slick. I turned the adjuster in 2 turns just to see what I would get with the mds hammer. Its 47.9 grams as compared to the stock 78.2 grams. Benjamin domes, 2900 fill. I shot 16 shots going from 715 to 800 which is where I wanted  to start the domes at. The mds at this setup did not want to open the valve till about 2500 psi. This is my string:800,802,807,812,809,809,815,820,816,824,821,820,825,824.824,818,822,818,815,810,808,805,800,798,800.  25 shots, 2500 psi to 1600....looks like about 36 psi per shot. I think with a bit more hammer spring and back off on the valve spring, I can bring the string on earlier and a bit more power. The mds is really easy to cock at this tune.
 So to see how much power could be made with the mds and the 10 lb spring I turned it in 5 1/2 turns and shot this with 43.2 eunjin @ 2700 psi: 738,738,740,741,740,742,744,744,744,751,748,750745,740,738,738. Too slow for my liking but 50 ish ft lbs none the less.  I just want to see how far I can take the mds hammer. Also need to order some stronger hammer springs and shorten maybe a 12 lb hammer spring or a 17. My next test will be with shortys short spring and weight in the hammer till my other springs come in. I really like the dual wound spring. I also want to turn the probe down. I feel I can get 35 or more shots in the 40ish ft lb range as is.. that seems the be the mds hammers specialty. Not wasting air with quick valve closing and no bounce. I like it, but for a power tune I feel im going to need more weight and a stronger spring. Id like to be able to hit 85 ft lbs for 8 shots and tune down for a 40-50 ft lb shot string. So begins the balancing act.
 You guys that have tuned marauders for power or shot count, I welcome any help, advice, comments!!
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on October 28, 2017, 09:31:21 PM
Had  a couple of hours this evening, tore the armada down, took out the war valve and radiused the port, polished everywhere air enters or exits and lightened the valve spring. I turned down the probe a bit and backed up the shoulder so that it's out of the flow path ( thanks Tim). Installed the mds hammer and dual wound spring. I'll get some air in my tanks and see what I've got. I'm looking for two things.. a shot count tune around 50 ft lbs and a max hunting tune.

Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on November 11, 2017, 09:53:12 PM
Replying to my own thread to keep it updated as I go.
 Update: 11/11- 2650 psi, 48 grain mds hammer, Tims dual wound spring, 1/16 preload?(longer spring) adjuster is backed all the way out. 38.5 bbt. I mag, 905,906,910,915,914,914,912,912. Holy moly... Out of air and time, more shooting and testing tomorrow (hopefully) Wasting a bit of air still so ill install one of Tims slightly shorter springs tomorrow to get a slight gap at 0 preload.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: YEMX on November 12, 2017, 12:25:14 AM
I'm not sure how to word this- but how does the Armada feel?  Does it feel like an AR?  Are the grips too far forward, back, etc.?  I'm thinking about getting an Armada stock (Receiver- PN: 2264-001) for a project I'm working on.  I've never handled an Armada and was wondering how close the "feel" is, compared to an AR.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on November 12, 2017, 05:11:49 AM
To me... it is of coarse not as compact, slightly front heavy, though to me the gun does not feel heavy overall. Grip feel is similar, but balance is not. I like the platform, the only draw back for me is having to remove the stock to adjust the hammer spring. However, I am doing a mod to the stock to remedy that;). The metal framing makes it durable in the woods (even though I painted mine) and there's plenty of mods and power to be had. It's one of those guns for me if it gets scratched a bit I'm not going to freak out over it. The green mountain barrel is inherently accurate with a lot of ammo.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: FuzzyGrub on November 12, 2017, 08:27:02 AM
I'm not sure how to word this- but how does the Armada feel?  Does it feel like an AR?  Are the grips too far forward, back, etc.?  I'm thinking about getting an Armada stock (Receiver- PN: 2264-001) for a project I'm working on.  I've never handled an Armada and was wondering how close the "feel" is, compared to an AR.

IMO, the Armada does not feel like a true AR, feel or balance.   It is hard to quantify how different it is.  All I can say is if I was blindfolded and picked up a Armada I would never guess AR. 

Crosman use to sell a pcp upper for AR, MAR177.  I never held one, but saw a few reports that said it was "close" to feel and balance.  It was expensive and don't think it is still available. 

https://support.crosman.com/hc/en-us/articles/203362144-MAR177-Owner-s-Manual-EVP-2012- (https://support.crosman.com/hc/en-us/articles/203362144-MAR177-Owner-s-Manual-EVP-2012-)


I will say, from a project stand point, the Armada parts are more reasonable to work with, the aluminum foregrip being the most expensive part at around $55. 
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: YEMX on November 12, 2017, 09:43:22 AM
Hmmm...  Does the LOP between the trigger and grip feel okay?  Are you still running that A2 grip?
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on November 12, 2017, 06:21:50 PM
Hmmm...  Does the LOP between the trigger and grip feel okay?  Are you still running that A2 grip?
I have not problems with it, after all its the marauder trigger group and works great for me from the factory settings. I'm a bit heavy handed so too light and I get into trouble. I have the standard grips still on it and have no problems with the way it feels. That being said, there are a ton of upgrades to be had and can be customized totally to your liking. I took all the goofy plastic things of the fore arm and am installing a couple of rails for light and a 45 degree mount for a red dot aside of the scope. I actually like it more than I thought I would. And at 500 bucks with an agnation discount, I couldn't go wrong. I may tone down the stainless look with carbon fiber wrap because this one is going coyote hunting next week;).
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: aceflier on November 12, 2017, 06:58:31 PM
Looking great so far bud. Keep us updated.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: YEMX on November 12, 2017, 09:43:54 PM
...because this one is going coyote hunting next week;).

May you have a target rich environment and little wind my friend!!   ;D

Many thanks for the info!  I will probably pick up the Armada stock for my 6mm build...
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: mobilemail on November 13, 2017, 08:33:32 AM
I'm not sure how to word this- but how does the Armada feel?  Does it feel like an AR?  Are the grips too far forward, back, etc.?  I'm thinking about getting an Armada stock (Receiver- PN: 2264-001) for a project I'm working on.  I've never handled an Armada and was wondering how close the "feel" is, compared to an AR.

Do you miss it?   :D :D

Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: YEMX on November 13, 2017, 10:16:53 AM
LOL a bit, but not the weight!  ;) ;D

Also, the XLR stock that's on there isn't made like that anymore...  I think I paid $180 or something...  The stock prices have gone up a bit to $200 (their least expensive stock), and they now look like this:

(http://www.shoretactical.com/images/XLR_TL_7.jpg)

I'm not sure exactly what I want for a stock, but I will be putting a folding adapter on it, to keep it short for transport.

That rifle was FUN to build!  How is she doing?
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: mobilemail on November 13, 2017, 03:56:07 PM
I have really grown to love it, it is accurate and unique. I believe it will be in line for an upgrade when the ART/Sikes valve gets released!  (But you're right about the weight, I added a front doing mount!  :o )
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on November 26, 2017, 08:13:05 PM
Thanks to the advice of Dillon, I cleaned the valve and poppet, added a little silicone grease to the poppet... and no more leak! Set the dual wire spring( long spring, cut 2 coils so I can go to a bit negative preload if I choose) from Tim at 3/4 turn in on the mds hammer, and got this string from 2900 to 2200 with 33 grain swagged slugs. (they are accurate out of this barrel, I put 20 in about an inch at 90 yards with a scope that creeps right on windage, new scope on the way)897,900,905,912,914,908,912,917,915,919,915,912,916,913,908,905,907,900,902,895. Went to 890, 882 after that. I wanted to keep the string in the 900's and a bit higher. I think with a bit more spring tension and a bit more pressure I could get a slightly higher longer string but im real happy with this. Its easy and nearly no spring tension. Very easy to cock.  Next will be a power tune with some 41-45 grain slugs. At this setting eunjin 43.2 go 870, (72.62 ft lbs) I threw one in just to check it. At 1 1/4 turn it pushed the 33 at 967. I think I have 6 turns available, got to check it with this spring and hammer combo. 
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: YEMX on November 26, 2017, 09:16:30 PM
Very nice string!!  I can't wait to see what she does w/the heavier slugs and higher pressure!!  Update us when you can!!

I have really grown to love it, it is accurate and unique. I believe it will be in line for an upgrade when the ART/Sikes valve gets released!  (But you're right about the weight, I added a front doing mount!  :o )

I'm glad you're enjoying it!  That means I did a good overall job with the design/build.  I'm sure she took a little tweaking to get it to where you liked it, but I'm very very happy you're enjoying it!
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: Dairyboy on November 27, 2017, 01:27:59 AM
Great job Daniel! I'm glad you got it all figured out now. That's shooting very good
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: triggertreat on November 27, 2017, 11:38:23 AM
Nice progress oneshot!  Sorry if I missed it, but what port size do you have?
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on November 27, 2017, 01:54:19 PM
It's 187 from valve to barrel. I did radius the port on the valve a bit to smooth out the flow and the bolt mods made a noticeable difference.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: mista meener on November 27, 2017, 02:52:17 PM
very nice rifle and you really know your way around a PCP but did you ever shoot it at 40-50 yds maybe more to see how it groups?
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on November 27, 2017, 07:53:56 PM
very nice rifle and you really know your way around a PCP but did you ever shoot it at 40-50 yds maybe more to see how it groups?

Ive had it out to 90 yards with 33 grain swaged slugs, 20 shots into about an inch, and would have been smaller but found out in shooting that the scope was not holding windage or elevation. First time using the scope, so I had no clue. I have shot bbt 38.5 and 41 grain with good results, they just take the correct sizing for the choke.  The green mountain barrel in the marauder and armada(same thing different furniture) is quite accurate with several pellets and im finding bullets for it as I go. As with every gun and every barrel, you can see what others are shooting but each gun can be slightly different. I wish when people made molds for air rifle bullets they would consider the choke when making the mold. You can only size down so far before degrading the integrity of the bullet. And... every thing I know I learned from the guys here on the forums, asking questions, taking advice and testing. There are some really brilliant minds here and no one is to be overlooked. Its like a puzzle that lots of people have pieces to.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: mista meener on November 27, 2017, 07:58:38 PM
very nice rifle and you really know your way around a PCP but did you ever shoot it at 40-50 yds maybe more to see how it groups?

Ive had it out to 90 yards with 33 grain swaged slugs, 20 shots into about an inch, and would have been smaller but found out in shooting that the scope was not holding windage or elevation. First time using the scope, so I had no clue. I have shot bbt 38.5 and 41 grain with good results, they just take the correct sizing for the choke.  The green mountain barrel in the marauder and armada(same thing different furniture) is quite accurate with several pellets and im finding bullets for it as I go. As with every gun and every barrel, you can see what others are shooting but each gun can be slightly different. I wish when people made molds for air rifle bullets they would consider the choke when making the mold. You can only size down so far before degrading the integrity of the bullet. And... every thing I know I learned from the guys here on the forums, asking questions, taking advice and testing. There are some really brilliant minds here and no one is to be overlooked. Its like a puzzle that lots of people have pieces to.
that is amazing accuracy
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on November 27, 2017, 08:14:04 PM
That's a 1/2 inch group at 90 yards. 3x9 scope. The bullet and gun are more accurate than I am. I think it was at 940 fps. I'm hoping for some time to shoot some heavier stuff this week.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on November 28, 2017, 06:37:18 AM
I ran those shot numbers through loyd sikes air efficiency calculator and got 1.91?? 2900-2200 psi, 20 shots, 33 grain average speed 908, 215 cc . Did I make a make a mistake somewhere? That's way up there. I need to run that string again just to be sure.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: triggertreat on November 28, 2017, 11:42:35 AM

I ran those shot numbers through loyd sikes air efficiency calculator and got 1.91?? 2900-2200 psi, 20 shots, 33 grain average speed 908, 215 cc . Did I make a make a mistake somewhere? That's way up there. I need to run that string again just to be sure.


1.91 FPE/CI is correct for the information given.  A 35 lbs/shot average at over 60 FPE is something I have never been able to do regulated using 34gr pellets so kudos to you, but sounds like you are unsure of it.  Replicating it to be sure would be a good thing.  I am going to try my hand at an unregulated SS valve tune using the 43.2gr Eun Jin pellet.  I should be able to reach 2.0 FPE/CI easy based on your numbers and setup.  I am just waiting on the pellets and that special spring.  I would be happy just coming close to your posted tune ;D
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on November 28, 2017, 01:11:49 PM
I would rather question my numbers and get it right. Seems awfully high for the set up. I went back and looked at my notes, they are the same as posted, but.. I'm definitely not above making a mistake and writing something down wrong. And considering what I've seen you and other post.. I've got a malfunction somewhere ...in my own opinion. I'll definitely reshoot at the first opportunity. Thanks for the comparison and info.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: D-RIG on November 28, 2017, 01:41:33 PM
Daniel I must say your gun is amazing , I'm looking forward to seeing what you can achieve
when it's all done ( well I guess there never done are they ) keep up the good work . I'll be in touch .
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on November 28, 2017, 02:39:49 PM
Hey Dale!! Thank you! I can't stand it.. im going tomorrow to shoot at lunch. I looked back on a mags worth of 38.5 with the spring set different and the string look very similar.. but who knows, we will see what happens.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: triggertreat on November 28, 2017, 03:05:02 PM
I found another string that is similar that may help you.  Acefier posted a unregulated string with a .187 port back on the 5th that averaged 65.7 FPE using 43.2gr.  He posted a fill from 2700 shot down to 2100 for 16 shots and used 100 psi less than you.  The efficiency was 1.94 FPE/CI and averaged 37.5 psi per shot.  He said he was using an SSG with a 10lb spring.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on November 28, 2017, 06:07:09 PM
Couldn't stand it.. shot this today. 18 shots, 33 grain, 906 average, my top speed is down a bit..2900-2200. Used a bit more air and did not let my tube cool from filling like I normally do. 1.7 efficiency. When I can I'll fill, let it cool down, check pressures and shoot again. Either way, I'm pretty happy. Time for some heavy lead and power tune;)
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: Prouzy on November 28, 2017, 06:59:50 PM
Very nice!  Hoping to replicate some of it :-)
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on November 28, 2017, 07:09:29 PM
A couple of notable things. When I put Tims dual wire spring in with a slight gap, my shot string flattened out and I got more power. When I added the mds with his long dual spring, more power and even better string. Same thing again with the bolt mod and radiusing the valve port. All these things are making a much more efficient gun and more powerful. I've also noticed that the swaged slugs being so consistent in weight and size, has added to a better string. Also, I loose psi after filling and cooling.. how much depends on how low on air I am or if I'm just topping off. Tricky, when trying to make all things equal.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: shorty on November 28, 2017, 09:14:09 PM
Love it Dan.

I do believe the 1.9 efficiency and show should everyone else. The combo in your your gun is very similar to Aceflyer and mine when I was running .187" porting.

The great thing about the spring is just a turn of 1 screw ( and nice mod you did to accomplish that on the Armada ) and you can get what ever power range the gun has with a great efficiency.

I do like the comment about the cocking effort too. It is so hard to get past people the this "heavy" spring ain't so bad. What people don't understand is we are not compressing the spring like a standard pre-loaded spring. At 2" spring length, it's only 8lbs to 12lbs max cocking effort with the HS set from 0 to 4.

Happy for you and keep it up.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: shorty on November 28, 2017, 09:44:36 PM
You know,
The next cool thing to come is a 24" barrel and custom baffles and use the stock length shroud. An extra 4" on the barrel will give even higher efficiency and power level.

You got to know that I am working on an affordable barrel (slug and pellet) and some 3D printed baffles to keep it quite. All this slug testing I am doing?!>: ;D

Something interesting is coming. Told you I have half of December off. Just can't sit on the couch and watch TV all day while the kids and wife are at school.

Some say 10fps per inch after our 20" barrel  8)
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on November 28, 2017, 10:39:50 PM
Thanks Tim, man I love that spring. It is weird that it's not hard to cock and yet takes so little to raise the power. I noticed that my shot string fell off earlier today after filling with the pump from the 2k mark. I was in a hurry and really got my pump hot as well as my air tube. I'll fill it and let it set, then if I need a bit more air it shouldn't heat up. I did it tonight and I lost 100 psi after it cooled. But all in all, I'm really happy with all the mods I've learned here. Every mod brings a little better power and efficiency. I'm looking for a place to extrude hone my valve and final polish the inside, blocking off the seat though. Talk about a smooth air flow! Also extrude hone the tube, while protecting the fill threads. That will eliminate oring problems and the smoothest hammer action available.
 Keep the ideas flowing Tim, everybody benefits!
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: Back_Roads on November 29, 2017, 12:49:40 AM
it is sort of a sling shot effect , the rubber never is stretched in the forward postiion with any preloaded energy release.  ???
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on June 04, 2018, 08:58:46 PM
Continuing here, maybe this thread will help someone else in the future. I opened my port and my valve to .203. Left the hammer spring set at the original setting with a 1/16 gap between the hammer and stem. Filled to 2900 and first shot went 977 with 33 grain. And then my chrony went dead. I’ll back up the hammer a bit and may have to tighten the valve spring a bit. I loosened it 2 turns to make it a bit easier for the mds hammer to open it and get a bit more power on 45 grain slugs. I’ll air up, get some new batteries, and try again tomorrow to get shot string from 3k at minimal settings.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on June 15, 2018, 11:38:13 PM
More testing with the .203 port.
33 grain, 3k, 16 shots, 940 average 64.7 ft lbs avg.
45 grain, 3k, 13 shots, 841 average, 70.65 ft lbs average.
Will easily push the 33 over 1000 FPS and the 45 over 900. More of a peak with this size port, a bit more air usage, easy power. I can reinstall the 187 port, choke it down and lengthen the shot string at a bit less power. I have yet to adjust the valve spring in a turn. That’s next and go to 3100.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on June 19, 2018, 09:45:37 PM
The numbers above are with a Hill transfer port. I think the inside is .190? I collapsed another one so I bought a brass 1/4 inch tubing connector, turned it down on my drill and a file till it fit the breech port. Opened the inside slightly, at about .192. No more collapsed transfer ports. I like where the gun sits power and accuracy wise at 62 -75 ft lbs , with the 33 and 45 grain swagged and may try some 37 and 39 for kicks. I actually tried some of the bbt 38.5 hp and when sizing down to .249, I got decent accuracy at 50 yards. I think weighing and sorting now is the key for those. Efficiency is good and will be a bit better when I tighten the valve spring one turn. It’s been a nice journey modding this gun and for now I’m going to leave it alone and just shoot it.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: Bigragu on June 19, 2018, 10:43:37 PM
That’s awesome, Daniel. I am envious, not gonna lie there, on your results
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on June 20, 2018, 12:37:37 AM
Thanks Augie, but I have to say, I’ve learned almost everything I know from the guys here on gta. There are some fantastic minds here.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: KnifeMaker on June 20, 2018, 02:05:29 AM
Color me impressed! Good work Sir!


Extrude hone. Good stuff. Did wonders for the GT-40 intake!  Especially the lower. ;)


Knife
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on June 22, 2018, 11:55:13 AM
Thanks Michael!! It’s been a lot of fun. I’m still looking for someone to do some honing for me. Probably would be cost prohibitive for a custom gun dealer to set that up, but for a gun that’s going to be a keeper, it would be worth it.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: triggertreat on June 22, 2018, 12:27:53 PM
You sure are kicking out some good power with that Benji!  I still have a few of those slugs you sent me and haven't forgot about them.  I have a LW tube and a SS tuning kit and am planning to enhance both of my two guns soon.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on June 22, 2018, 03:02:52 PM
Thanks Keith, I got a good one for sure! Your going to love those 33 grain. I think the key is to polish the barrel including the choke. What’s in the tuning kit? You already have the valve in...right?
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: triggertreat on June 22, 2018, 04:19:55 PM
Thanks Keith, I got a good one for sure! Your going to love those 33 grain. I think the key is to polish the barrel including the choke. What’s in the tuning kit? You already have the valve in...right?



You can see a picture of the kit on JSAR.  It has a lighter valve spring and a different jet for regged tunes.


I forget who you got those 33's from.  I cleared out my inbox back when admin requested we do so and lost our communications on that plus all others.  I wished now I hadn't done that.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on June 22, 2018, 05:17:18 PM
Pm sent. Checked out the kit, that’s pretty cool. Should be able to tune to almost anything you want.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: triggertreat on June 22, 2018, 06:26:36 PM
Pm sent. Checked out the kit, that’s pretty cool. Should be able to tune to almost anything you want.



Yes I am looking forward to getting back into both of them.  The 22 is getting the LW tube and a retune and the 25 is getting a air leak fixed and a retune.  Too hot to shoot much, but I'll dig back into them soon.  I got a few other parts too.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: KnifeMaker on June 22, 2018, 06:54:51 PM
Dan, I forgot about those slugs. Didn't shoot well for me at all. However, I have upped the power quite a bit, and I do have 5 of them left. I want to see if the higher fps can help. It was only in the low 600's when I first tested them.  ;D


Knife


 
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: KnifeMaker on June 22, 2018, 06:57:25 PM
Have you considered calling Extrude Hone themselves. I remember they use to be easy to work with, just expensive.  ;)


Knife
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on June 22, 2018, 07:52:57 PM
Have you considered calling Extrude Hone themselves. I remember they use to be easy to work with, just expensive.  ;)


Knife
I have not. There is a gunsmith in Columbus ga that is going to install my .257 barrel on my Cothran. They have a contact in Atlanta to do it for me. (Extrude hone)..I’ll get more details on it next week from them. If it works out, I’ll do my armada valve and tube.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on June 22, 2018, 08:38:36 PM
Dan, I forgot about those slugs. Didn't shoot well for me at all. However, I have upped the power quite a bit, and I do have 5 of them left. I want to see if the higher fps can help. It was only in the low 600's when I first tested them.  ;D


Knife
I missed this... which ones were you shooting? I can’t remember if I sent you any🙄.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on August 18, 2018, 10:40:51 PM
Just for kicks, I put my no bounce war hammer in, filled to 3k . 43.2 @ 960 FPS. Bbt 48 grain hp @ 915. Was not expecting that. I had a 1/4 gap between hammer and valve. I’m going to a 64.7 mds hammer to keep from dumping air and flatten the string for a mag. Hopefully tomorrow.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: KnifeMaker on August 20, 2018, 09:11:34 PM
Gotta Love it! The spring you sent , with only one and one half turns in, gave me over 91 fpe. :o   


Backed her back down as it only got 5 shots at 90+ fpe before poi changed.  She now gets a full mag of mid 80's fpe.  8)


Knife
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on August 20, 2018, 09:30:21 PM
Wow! That’s awesome! Got to love that rainstorm. Even at 5 shots that’s a coyote smack down and plenty shots left. I’m going to settle mine back down mid 60’s again since I have the rainstorm .30. I installed a jsar depinger and it took all the ping out of the armada. At 65 ft lbs with a mds hammer it’s really quiet.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: KnifeMaker on August 20, 2018, 09:32:47 PM
Humm, I wonder if they have anything for the RS. Some similarities to the Krals.


Would love one of their Valves, alu. tubes.  ;D


I'll bet 100 fpe is not far away with this .25 Storm.  ;)
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: KnifeMaker on August 20, 2018, 09:33:43 PM
Wow! That’s awesome! Got to love that rainstorm. Even at 5 shots that’s a coyote smack down and plenty shots left. I’m going to settle mine back down mid 60’s again since I have the rainstorm .30. I installed a jsar depinger and it took all the ping out of the armada. At 65 ft lbs with a mds hammer it’s really quiet.


Wait, they already have a depinger for it?
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: mackeral5 on August 20, 2018, 09:38:12 PM
Are these springs for sale? My interest is up, I'd like to get my hands on one to try in one of my contraptions. 
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on August 20, 2018, 09:46:31 PM
Humm, I wonder if they have anything for the RS. Some similarities to the Krals.


Would love one of their Valves, alu. tubes.  ;D


I'll bet 100 fpe is not far away with this .25 Storm.  ;)
There is a possibility their kral  depinger will work in the rainstorm. I didn’t realize they had it. I got one from Will Piatt but haven’t had time to install it.
With a 48-50 grain bullet I have no doubt you can get 100 ft lb.
 As soon as I master the dual wire spring making ( Tim makes it look easy) I’ll get one to you.
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: oneshot61 on August 20, 2018, 09:48:12 PM
Are these springs for sale? My interest is up, I'd like to get my hands on one to try in one of my contraptions.
I bought mine here:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005KV0UD6?psc=1&ref=yo_pop_mb_pd_title (https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005KV0UD6?psc=1&ref=yo_pop_mb_pd_title)
Title: Re: .25 Armada
Post by: KnifeMaker on August 21, 2018, 02:43:43 AM
If I  tried such a thing, I can just hear it now.  Spoing!!! and the hunt is on. GRRRR! ;D