Now let's see some more 25 cal Regulated Mrod tunes.
I'm watching because I'm not only interested in the 4040, but I'm also thinking what this could do to transform a .22 mrod. 6030 (60 shots @ 30fpe regged)?
Almost forgot,
Dairyboy, hurry up. :D. I can't wait to see your numbers.
Just thought about it.
Bob's comment about lowering the reg set point. It is valid although, what PB guns did is run a smaller transfer sleeve than I did which reduces the power slightly. It does something else though as well. It moves that magical point of getting shots off regulation at the power level your looking for.
So don't think you have to pull the gun apart and re-adjust the reg set-point to run in YOU'RE sweet spot. This is supper critical because the thought process a while back was to open the porting as much as you can to get power and efficiency at lower pressure when installing a regulator.
In my case with .196" porting, a quick change to .168" porting should mimic PBguns shot string but, not allow me to hit over 50 fpe on regulation. This is something that should not be missed.
Question, is there a US supplier of the Huma Regs?
Okay guys, maybe you can clarify this for me. With the newer huma reg that has the gauge block built in there doesn't seem to be much wiggle room for pleume, without drilling it out and modifying it anyway, and I don't plan on it. But with this design is the gauge assembly itself enough to hold the regulator where it needs to be or will I need to plan on pinning it?
No, I bought the newer one. I should remove the original gauge block completely and this reg has the gauge port made in.
(http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f326/CJ_Leisenring/Mobile%20Uploads/20161103_153159_zpsrwgqkwic.png) (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/CJ_Leisenring/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161103_153159_zpsrwgqkwic.png.html)
Part Original Modified % Increase
Now, I consider the pocket, exhaust, TP, and barrel port the key flow mods. The rest just add some slight plenum increase. Of note: Normally, I'd go with more inlet cap mod and a light conical spring, with a LW hammer. I only have the oem hammer for now, so will wait on the spring associated mods. I have to finish the DIY SGG and re-assemble, but should have results sometime this weekend. |
Yo Dillion,
Where's that 25 cal regulated shot string. Just busting chops!!!!! ;)
I have been waiting for it so that I can post this pic. For holloween we went to the agriculture center cause they had something going on there and this old school carrige was there.
All I could think about was you. Do you run Moooo cows or meat cows? ;D
My first string showed that I was at the power I want (865fps) but not the shot count. Only got about 16 shots before going off reg. Reg is set at 2.2Kpsi. Turned out I was way up on the plateu, some adjustment and shortening the 3" spring by 1/4" got me closer to the knee, at 850fps. I'm at 26 shots before going off reg, then it is a steady decline.
Shot FPS 3.2K Fill 25.4g Kings
1 852
2 853
3 855
4 857
5 854
6 853
7 855
8 857
9 855
10 853
11 851
12 853
13 854
14 854
15 855
16 852
17 850
18 852
19 850
20 850
21 849
22 849
23 851
24 853
25 853
26 850
27 847
28 846
29 843
30 838
31 836
32 835
Still a far cry from PBguns results. I need to go to a lighter hammer, and will open exhaust and TP some more to 0.170".
48 shots from 865-830 fps. 40 shots on regulation around 853fps avg with 25.39 JSB kings. I'm done tuning!
48 shots from 865-830 fps. 40 shots on regulation around 853fps avg with 25.39 JSB kings. I'm done tuning!
I was even skeptical about it while running it over the chrony and it just kept going and going and going ;D it's a fun gun now and as soon as I get a new scope for it will sight in to Polymags and have shots for all day 8)
Motorhead "Scott's" bolt mod did not appear to utilize this on his bolt shaping build and under performed for a low pressure tune.
Mike,
As you know I am really interested in who does this 40/40 tune. Who are these 2 or 3 guys that are getting close and what forum.I can't find them.
The bolt probe mod is one thing I do. Although, I just don't reduce the diameter of the probe but pull back the shoulder (Pakprotector-thanks) for .18" barrel porting. For me and one other it created a 50 fps increase and the other a lower pressure tune at a higher FPE.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=112722.msg1079967#msg1079967 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=112722.msg1079967#msg1079967)
http://airgunguild.com/pcp-c02-and-helium-powered-airguns/gen-2-25-modded-mrod-modded-bolt/ (http://airgunguild.com/pcp-c02-and-helium-powered-airguns/gen-2-25-modded-mrod-modded-bolt/)
Motorhead "Scott's" bolt mod did not appear to utilize this on his bolt shaping build and under performed for a low pressure tune.
My gun has a leak and reg is creeping but here's my last string. I took a couple shots to bring the regulated air down to normal pressures before starting string so no idea what starting pressure is.
01) 849.9 21) 837.4
02) 847.9 22) 849.6
03) 838.6 23) 847.6
04) 836.1 24) 848.9
05) 838.0 25) 837.0
06) 841.0 26) 842.8
07) 833.5 27) 845.3
08) 839.9 28) 832.7
09) 829.6 29) 832.6
10) 843.9 30) 853.4
11) 840.2 31) 843.2
12) 844.2 32) 841.2
13) 844.6 33) 844.3
14) 842.7 34) 846.2
15) 838.2 35) 841.5
16) 841.5 36) 844.8
17) 845.9 37) 838.9
18) 853.7 38) 838.1
19) 834.2 39) 831.6
20) 837.2 40) 828.3
My gun has a leak and reg is creeping but here's my last string. I took a couple shots to bring the regulated air down to normal pressures before starting string so no idea what starting pressure is.
01) 849.9 21) 837.4
02) 847.9 22) 849.6
03) 838.6 23) 847.6
04) 836.1 24) 848.9
05) 838.0 25) 837.0
06) 841.0 26) 842.8
07) 833.5 27) 845.3
08) 839.9 28) 832.7
09) 829.6 29) 832.6
10) 843.9 30) 853.4
11) 840.2 31) 843.2
12) 844.2 32) 841.2
13) 844.6 33) 844.3
14) 842.7 34) 846.2
15) 838.2 35) 841.5
16) 841.5 36) 844.8
17) 845.9 37) 838.9
18) 853.7 38) 838.1
19) 834.2 39) 831.6
20) 837.2 40) 828.3
I also did one other thing. Not sure if it helps with the "refilling" of the plenum but, I removed the tie off screw on the regulator. You know, that screw that you would connect a piece of wire to so that you can pull the reg out.
I found a little trick when regging the 22 (no screw there either). To get the reg out with out pulling the valve out, all you have to do is put the degass tool in to open the valve and with your bolt closed, add shop air to muzzle of the barrel while holding your finger over the gauge port hole in the pressure tube. Popped right out for me.
According to huma that screw is there to slow the flow of air into the plenum making the regulator more consistent. There's a small groove underneath the label where i tied some fishing line to pull it out.
I think the stock gauge block is limiting my max fps to about 880 fps. Increasing spring tensions won't raise velocity after that point. So using an 8lb hammer spring is perfect for me right now at least until i figure out a way to open up the gauge block without a lathe or mill.
I have a half-azzed half hogged out gauge block from my .22 if you want to try it out. It ain't pretty man, and may need some TLC but should give you a little more plenum. Your more than welcome to have it.
Can't wait to join you to the club. Yup, bump that reg to 2000psi and I think your there.
Can't wait to join you to the club. Yup, bump that reg to 2000psi and I think your there.+2 (any updates)??
Can't wait to hear about it CJ.
I am starting to think nobody really cares about a 40/40 tune "or more" with their 25 cal marauder or if we are pulling their legs on it since it sounds so impossible.
Your gonna love it if it works out for you. If you need anything to get there, I would be more than happy to help.
No groups past 25yds but here's what mine is doing with a stock barrel. Top groups is 5 shots with polymags, bottom right is 5 with JSB kings bottom left is 5 with AA 25.4 gr. Was shooting minute of sparrow at 75yds the other day. 5 shots and 4 hits only because the miss hit a branch right in front of the bird.No surprise there the stock .25 Marauder is excellent and accurate out past 50 yards if the shooter does their part and regulated just makes accurate shooting that much easier with the shot to shot consistency. That's why I hand load all my rifle ammo
(https://s6.postimg.org/nziu0zqy9/IMG_20161204_091856679.jpg) (https://postimage.org)
GoneShootN,
My build (which is essentially a Dairyboy clone) is here:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=118687.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=118687.0)
I have been tuning through a chrony, so I rapidly look up after each shot to read the chrony (which disturbs aim follow through). This means I don't have any pictures of accurate shot groups.
Since that build (a couple weeks ago), I ordered a new Hill 25 gram hammer (the first one was drilled through to support the WAR SSG) and Hill's 261/262 short stiff spring. The new parts are not yet installed.
The current extreme spread (ES) in velocity is around 1.89 percent over 40 shots with JSB Exact King 25.39 grain pellets. With the 16 FPS variation, this makes for a 1 inch vertical Point of Impact (POI) difference at 100 yards (according to Hawke Chair Gun software). At 25 yards, the ES seems to make no measurable difference in the vertical point of impact. I got in a new scope and mount yesterday, so my focus has been playing with moving scopes around on my air rifles and re-zeroing them; further modification of the Marauder this weekend is unlikely.
For those who are pondering regulator choices, my only experience is with the Huma. Any new regulator will typically need to be used for a couple hundred shots before it truly settles in. Mine experienced creep (pressure over the set regulated amount for the first shot) when new, which has since settled down. Some things noted about the one I got (huma regulator for 25 cal with integral gauge block). The plenum size is more than adequate for efficient shooting. When I first slapped all the parts together, but had not tuned, it was hitting with 48 FPE force with 25.39 grain pellets. With a little tuning, it would have easily hit 50+ FPE. This was with a regulated pressure of 2000 PSI. As a 50+ FPE gun was not my goal, the regulator was reduced to 1900 PSI in order to encourage more efficiency at 40 FPE. Ultimately, it may get moved further down to 1800 PSI.
The numbers on the "adjustment knob" on the Huma regulator are a "serving suggestion"; which is to say, they are not dead on. The Huma I have produces more pressure than indicated on the knob. I would recommend running a small steel wire to the regulator screw on the end of the knob, for the purpose of supporting easy yanking and removing the regulator. I failed to do this. I ended up fabricating a coat-hanger with a hook at the end for grabbing the screw and pulling the regulator out.
Do not forget to put a silicon oil lubricated thumb over the gauge hole in the air tube when pulling the regulator. This will reduce the chance of cutting one of the O-Rings when pulling and inserting the regulator. In spite of all the things said above, I like the Huma regulator, it has worked well for me (once broken in).
John,
Nothing would be sticking out of the gun. Actually, you wouldn't even know it was there unless you turned the gun over to see what the pressure was. Instead of seeing the gauge, you would just see a flat piece of metal.
Here's what it would like like on the gun.
That's great!! Might need another .25 Mrod to have 2 regulated .25s ::)Oh believe me, I would have had another one when the $399 deals were going on but none of them will ship to this stupid state I live in! >:( One for high power, one for lower power and whisper quiet. ;)
CJ,What you guys have accomplished is great stuff I just bought a bunch of parts and when I realised that I didn't have the machine shop tools ( metal lathe and Milling machine ) I just shrugged and shipped everything to someone with a better skill set and the right tools to do it right. So now I will end up with a .30 Marauder Gen II with 80 to 100 FPE and ~14 shots on regulator. I like tour Idea better less expensive and a consistent 40 FPE 40 shot rifle. Keep up the good work
I am using a stock valve too. There is nothing wrong with using the stock valve ported out. Heck, before the reg, I was hitting a 1 shot 90fpe with 43.2 eujins. Since Dairy boy mentioned using 2 guns (one for low power 40fpe and one for high power 60fpe) I am gonna try a 60 fpe string today from my regged 25 cal using those eujins.
That Bob Sterne with Steve from SC additional plenum idea won't get out of my head along with Bob's regulated disco build. That extra plenum makes such a huge difference. I just have to figure out how to get everything tucked away into the stock nicely.
I am also pretty sure Hill valve's are "stock" modified. The only 2 valves I know that are completely custom and made from scratch is the WAR valve and Cothran valve.
Look at that. Seems like max power with 43.2 Eujins is at the top of the knee. Who would of thought, a 60 FPE (Ok 59.4fpe) regulated 25Mrod with all stock MODIFIED parts except for the hammer spring and huma reg.Shorty if you have an M-rod Huma Regulator the reg for the Hatsan has the same size air tube but a larger plenum chamber so if you order just the plenum and hog out the Gauge port you should be all good. ;) your welcome You will loose a little HPA capacity but it will give you added regulated volume . I can't remember which vendor Might be AG exporters that will sell just the plenum
Now I am real curious to know how many shots at a kitty kat hair away from 60 fpe.
HS FPS FPE
0 659 42
1 738 52
2 778 58
3 785 59
Man,
If we,me or someone can get that extra plenum thing going, I can see our platforms hitting 70+fpe on regulation for a clip or 2 and be able to make one adjustment (without taking the gun apart) using the HS adjuster to bring the power down to 35fpe/40fpe for a great shot count string.
I always said I wanted 1 gun that can run the full power gama with just a 1 screw adjustment and not have to take that gun apart to make that change.
Thanks Don. You gotta know me by now though. I hate fishing where everyone else fishes.I get it but I have to confess until I retire and have the opportunity to learn the metal lathe and milling machine I have to rely on others for all the heavy lifting since my knowledge is all second hand where modding is concerned. If all goes well I plan on building a >22 gen II Marauder with longer TJ's Barrel and upgraded longer shroud with more baffles to keep the beast backyard friendly . I will also set it up with a longer Titanium air tube and regulator to maximize power and shot count
I think if I work hard enough, I can figure out how to add this extra plenum without losing the HPA side and make it a complete drop in part. This one part would be the golden asset for regulating your 25.
If I am thinking right, all you would need is the "extra plenum" , the Huma with gauge port, and an SSG or the new TSS. No need for new valves,porting, or anything else to achieve the 40/40 tune or super close.
Sounds like a good plan.Right now I'm watching what Lloyd is doing with my .30 Marauder. Basically with off the shelf parts he has it right at ~80 fpe and I sent him some Bobs Boat tail 70 gr .30 bullets to play with
It would be great if someone came up with a larger diameter shroud with baffles to keep the length the same. You know, a receiver spacer, longer screw on the bolt to catch the hammer (or vise versa), and a 1.25" or 1.5" shroud with baffles. ;D
The 22 is a hammer. My regged 22 synrod maxes out to around 31fpe but, I know if I jumped the reg to 2000psi (set at 1550psi now), it would be able to hit 42fpe and with that stupid plenum adapter would make it a 55fpe regulated 22 synrod.
Add a TJ barrel or whatever barrel at a length of 24" to 26" and I have no idea where it would put that FPE at (I am sure it would be high).
So many things to do. ;D
Gee thanks Don, I still feel like ball slapping you. :D "who would do something like that" ?????Just remember that I qualify as elderly and as such That might be considered elder abuse although my 24 year old stepson would rather pick on someone his own 6'4" 260 than the fat old biker that lives with his mom ;) ;D ;D ;D Just retaliating in good fun ;D ;D ;D
That's a joke :D. You just gotta know me to appreciate it.
Your a great moderator and I for one thank you for what you do. Still want to ball slap you though (just for fun)..... :D "dang" kids......
I ended up replacing my war ssg spring with an 8lb spring from McMaster. It made the gun much easier to cock and still have enough power to hit 40 fpe for 40 shots.
That's great!! Might need another .25 Mrod to have 2 regulated .25s ::)Just bought the .25 that Travis used for testing the TSS
That's great!! Might need another .25 Mrod to have 2 regulated .25s ::)Just bought the .25 that Travis used for testing the TSS
Yep and fully tweaked and tuned by the man himself. Should be on the way today.That's great!! Might need another .25 Mrod to have 2 regulated .25s ::)Just bought the .25 that Travis used for testing the TSS
You lucky dog!! In assuming it came with the TSS huh?
Yep and fully tweaked and tuned by the man himself. Should be on the way today.That's great!! Might need another .25 Mrod to have 2 regulated .25s ::)Just bought the .25 that Travis used for testing the TSS
You lucky dog!! In assuming it came with the TSS huh?
I wonder if it would be possible to get 24/50, 32/45, and 40/40 by just changing the gap on ssg. It would be nice to have like a single adjustment that could adjust power like that.
I wonder if it would be possible to get 24/50, 32/45, and 40/40 by just changing the gap on ssg. It would be nice to have like a single adjustment that could adjust power like that.
40 shotsat 40 FPE would be a total of 1600 FPE for the fill. Wouldn't the equivalent at 50 FPE/shot be 1600/50 = 32 shots at 50 FPE/shot? If so, I wonder if that would be doable, perhaps, as David suggested, via adjusting the SSG?
I wonder if it would be possible to get 24/50, 32/45, and 40/40 by just changing the gap on ssg. It would be nice to have like a single adjustment that could adjust power like that.
40 shotsat 40 FPE would be a total of 1600 FPE for the fill. Wouldn't the equivalent at 50 FPE/shot be 1600/50 = 32 shots at 50 FPE/shot? If so, I wonder if that would be doable, perhaps, as David suggested, via adjusting the SSG?
In general, all things equal, if you are going to a higher fpe, the efficiency will decrease, and you will not achieve the math you stated.
Just finished the bench work on this one. Can use a bit of tweaking to fine tune it. But what was done was an Audrius regulator set to 2100psi installed. Gauge block opened up, valve input cap opened up, poppet stem necked down and lighter poppet spring. Valve output port opened to 0.165". TP and barrel port both opened to match.
Light weight hammer added with internal SSG and medium weight spring. External power adjuster added. Power adjuster set for approximately 2 turns out for a starting area of 830-840fps with 25.39gr JSB rounds. Here's a 40 shot string. Ending pressure 1750psi.
I'll add that this one has lots of adjustability as far as power. It can be turned up and I've seen it slam out 33.95gr JSB at 57-58fpe. It can also be turned down for lower power and a much longer shot string. The SSG spring preload can also be tweaked. And one last shameless plug, this one will be available soon in a classified gate near you.
:)
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/ezman604/.25%20MRod%20Audrius_zpsxfzcy1yr.jpg)
1 831 38.94
2 844 40.17
3 831 38.94
4 848 40.55
5 835 37.45
6 839 39.69
7 847 40.45
8 837 39.5
9 831 38.94
10 838 39.6
11 833 39.13
12 816 37.55
13 807 36.72
14 823 38.19
15 826 38.47
16 814 37.36
17 834 39.22
18 831 38.94
19 826 38.47
20 823 38.19
21 827 38.56
22 823 38.19
23 826 38.47
24 840 39.79
25 835 39.31
26 833 39.13
27 837 39.5
28 835 39.31
29 833 39.13
30 827 38.56
31 821 38.01
32 826 38.47
33 837 39.5
34 835 39.31
35 833 39.13
36 831 38.94
37 827 38.56
38 826 38.47
39 821 38.01
40 820 37.45
Zachary Hoy,
Turn down your regulator pressure to 125-129 Bar and your extreme spread will go down. In your posted shot string your velocity goes up as you start to come off the regulator, a sign your regulator pressure is too high. As well as your ES going down, you may discover you get a couple more shots as well (and it looks like your average velocity will go up as well). This is assuming you leave all other adjustments exactly where they currently are. Best of luck.
Generally, in a regulated PCP, as you increase the FPE requirement, you need a higher setpoint pressure, or the efficiency suffers.... even if you can attain the higher FPE level.... This means that the typical trade off in FPE and shot count you see in an unregulated PCP doesn't often apply.... As you increase the setpoint pressure to achieve the higher FPE, you lose "headroom", ie the amount of HPA available between your fill pressure and setpoint, and that costs you directly on shot count.... For instance, if you increase the setpoint from 1800 psi to 2200, on a gun with a 3000 psi fill, the headroom in the HP side of the regulator decreases from 1200 psi to 800 psi, which relates to a direct 33% loss in the air available to produce shots.... Factor in that your shots are now more powerful, and each one requires more air, and the shot count drops dramatically, even if the efficiency remains the same.... If you don't increase the plenum size, you are likely to lose efficiency at the increased FPE level, further reducing shot count.... and if you do increase the plenum size, you lose even more air on the HP side, which again loses the ability to produce shots....
In a nutshell, that is the basic reason that regulated PCPs are more suitable for low to medium power applications.... The exception is if they are specifically designed, from the ground up, for a high-power application.... with a large bottle and a large plenum....
Bob
40 FPE is not a high-powered tune for a .25 cal.... With equal barrel length and pressures, and similar proportions on the ports (eg. 75% of caliber, for example), the following tunes are roughly equivalent....
.177 cal.... 20 FPE
.22 cal.... 30 FPE
.25 cal.... 40 FPE
.30 cal.... 60 FPE
.35 cal.... 80 FPE
The above power levels are quite reasonable to achieve with a regulated PCP and still get a good shot count and efficiency.... At 1.5 times those FPE levels, things get more difficult with a regulator, and you have to start thinking about longer barrels, bigger ports and plenums, and maybe higher setponts.... To get twice those FPE numbers, you are really pushing what can be achieved with a regulated PCP, and you will be looking at bullets to get the FPE and bottle guns to get the shot count.... In most cases, starting with a conventional, single tube PCP, you would be better off unregulated....
Bob
I broke down and bought a TSS for my regulated Mrod im thinking im going to be able to get a higher power tune than my last and looking forward to the easier cocking for sure!
I broke down and bought a TSS for my regulated Mrod im thinking im going to be able to get a higher power tune than my last and looking forward to the easier cocking for sure!
Great, but how did you manage it? I didn't think they were available quite yet. Not on the web site, yet, that I could see. In any event, I will be looking forward to your results. Good luck.
Well, it is easier to get 40 FPE in .25 cal than in .22 cal, because the air has more area to push on.... To get 40 FPE in .22 cal is going to be similar to trying to get about 53 FPE in a .25 cal in terms of efficiency.... but you only need enough air (at that efficiency) to develop 40 FPE, not 53 FPE.... Shorty got 24 shots with his 50 FPE tune in .25 cal, so at the same pressure you might get 30-32 shots in .22 cal.... I think three mags at 40 FPE should be easy, but four 10-shot mags at 40 FPE in .22 cal might be pretty tough with a regulated MRod....
Bob
It is highly unlikely you will get 30 shots at 40 FPE with your .22 cal. The main thing to focus on is the accuracy and finding the most accurate pellet for your unique barrel. The speed at which you push a pellet will be part of the accuracy equation. I have pushed the 21.14gn to 35 FPE once, but the accuracy and shot count were reduced at that level. However, this was with a stock valve and porting so I suppose you could hit 40 FPE at the peak with a modified valve and heavy lead, but not for 30 shots unless you fill to levels beyond the manufacture's safe operating recommendations. I run 40 shots at 30 FPE at a 2% ES for accuracy at 50 yards and beyond, but that's just me and what I like my .22 to do.
Terry I've seen where guys are using the .25 Mrod valve in their .22 also, I've never really looked into it but it's worth finding out about.
40 shots at 30 FPE will be easier to obtain than 30 shots at 40 FPE in .22 cal.... To get 40 FPE you will probably need larger ports than stock, in a regulated MRod....
Bob
Terry I've seen where guys are using the .25 Mrod valve in their .22 also, I've never really looked into it but it's worth finding out about.
Terry I've seen where guys are using the .25 Mrod valve in their .22 also, I've never really looked into it but it's worth finding out about.
On Gen II, the main difference is the poppet spring. The 25 cal TP has a larger ID than the 177/22 TP. ie the valve itself won't buy any real performance improvement. Tim's valve that he has ordered will be much better than stock.
Just out of respect for Shorty's thread on regulated 25s, I would recommend starting your own .22 cal Armada build thread so these guys can get back to the OPs original topic.
No problems here Terry. Just to help you out, here's a table of stats on my 22synrod when it was NOT regulated. Porting was at .141".
Bob,
What your saying is so true with high power and regulated shots as it sits now with what we have. Although, things are going to change soon with this additional auxiliary plenum.
Just think, this drop in part (experimental and on the drawing table) should be able to bring those high power regulated shots with a "stock-looking" configuration.
I just need to work harder or get a few others on board. I firmly believe this auxiliary plenum can get a 22 to 40 fpe for 35 to 40 shots and a 25 cal to 65fpe+ for 16 to 24 shots while being able to tune it back (with a hammer spring adjustment) to a medium power level for efficiencies over 1.9 and all on the stock tube making the gun look like it's in it's stock configuration.
I would have sent a couple to you if you asked. I just don't have enough wire to make them anymore. :D
With the skills that you have, I have a feeling you can make one or better. Here's the video on how to make it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR8GlE6aX9s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR8GlE6aX9s)
Go on amazon and search "music wire" at what ever size you need. Music wire will work just as good. Piece of cake.
I should be more than happy with my 29 shots, but my string isn't as flat and I just feel there's a couple more shots hiding inside of it. But still 29 shots @ 52 fpe ain't too shabby for now...
I should be more than happy with my 29 shots, but my string isn't as flat and I just feel there's a couple more shots hiding inside of it, that last shot I rushed. But still 29 shots @ 52 fpe ain't too shabby for now...
I think next for me is to explore different springs with this ssg/mds combo or maybe go back to stock hammer for now I'm pretty stoked getting down to 5%..
I'm going to shoot it a while like this and see if it settles down, but I think it's ssg/mds it's so smooth and easy cocking I can just tell there's too much spring for it. I might try the stock hammer and see if I can make a change.
Also it may have been me as late night shooting I may have rushed more shots than I thought. I may try tuning reg down a bit.
Also I think I could have taken 2 more shots, so I'm going to leave it set like this, shoot it for a while, then shoot another string take more time between shots and see if that alone brings me closer to that flatline.
I know this is an older thread. I own an Aramda and want to improve shot count as well as accurcey with a workable power level which is not the most important. I have ordered a cheep eBay regulator to tinker with and mod, and I have a Huma with gauge block and portport for the permanent setup. I have every thing in this forum on moding the Marauder gen II, but most of it has a cause and effect problem, like hammer gualing hard cocking, and the Armada can't have any thing sticking out back of the hammer tube, because of the stock. So I also picked up a drop in Steve HDD current design unit from AOA. I have been thinking of get a used marauder stock to do the tuning with and then locking every thing in to a permanent state then back into the Armada stock. Has any thing evolved to reduce the need or hammer mods, and othe problem?Talk to Rocker1 he can make you an MDS hammer or several other vendors also make drop in MDS hammers
Thanks for any help.
CH
I was thinking about turcite instead of MDS and 12L44 as the hammer to get close to the stock weight of the stock hammer. Turcite is used to repair matching tool ways. They can carry a lot of weight and will never wear out or deform under pressure. It is oil proof and does not scratch under grit or dirt. It is capable millions of cycles under extreme load. I have used dry film lubricants that can eliminate metal to metal wear under extreme loads and conditions the may work very well on metal hammers?I know this is an older thread. I own an Aramda and want to improve shot count as well as accurcey with a workable power level which is not the most important. I have ordered a cheep eBay regulator to tinker with and mod, and I have a Huma with gauge block and portport for the permanent setup. I have every thing in this forum on moding the Marauder gen II, but most of it has a cause and effect problem, like hammer gualing hard cocking, and the Armada can't have any thing sticking out back of the hammer tube, because of the stock. So I also picked up a drop in Steve HDD current design unit from AOA. I have been thinking of get a used marauder stock to do the tuning with and then locking every thing in to a permanent state then back into the Armada stock. Has any thing evolved to reduce the need or hammer mods, and othe problem?Talk to Rocker1 he can make you an MDS hammer or several other vendors also make drop in MDS hammers
Thanks for any help.
CH
Going to install a Hill valve, increased volume gauge section and Regulator in my Armada. I was woundering if a depinger is needs to be installed also. I hate the ping when you fire it. I will be using it for pest control and don't want to run everything off after the first shot
CH
Jere,
That's alot of Hill parts in that gun.... My biggest question for you is what did Tim Hill say about it ?
My thoughts,
Everything looks great there to do the 40/40 but you can use some pixy dust. On the valve, did you open the throat to a minimum of .25" and no greater than .26" ? Even though you opened the port to 11/64 (.171") the valve still needs to breathe down stream to the HPA.
Hogging the entrance of the valve to .5" nearly all the way down to the poppet seat helps with the available plenum.
Lastly, opening the exit port,transfer port, and barrel port to .187" helps much better. To see the real results from a .187" porting, you should truly pull the shoulder back on the bolt probe.
If you were to do all that, I think you can get the 40/40 tune at just under 2000psi ( 1950 psi ).
It's a shame that no one sells a true guaranteed drop in 40/40 tune for a reasonable price yet.
Jere,
I am sorry If I came across a little difficult. It's just because It looks like you spent a good bit of change to get a 40/40 tune.
The throat is just behind the poppet. You can use a drill bit but it is very challenging to keep the valve seat neat and clean for a good seal. If you do a drill bit make sure you "seat" the poppet well with a light abrasive such as car polish.
I am sorry again as all I did to get the 40/40 is all homemade parts except the reg.
The valve was hogged to the valve seat to .5" , the throat is .25" , I opened up the valve cap to .475" , made a new poppet spring to fit valve body/poppet head, drilled ports to .187", pulled back bolt probe, ran a short stiff spring.
The first time I did this was with a battery powered drill and vise.
Just doing that is good for 55fpe for 16 shots with 33.95's and just over 40 shots with 25.39's at 40 fpe.
Sorry if you took my comments the wrong way
And, I want to add, that Shorty not only knows his stuff with the tweaking of these marauders, but he’s very helpful thru PM’s also.
At least with me he is, lol!!
And, I want to add, that Shorty not only knows his stuff with the tweaking of these marauders, but he’s very helpful thru PM’s also.
At least with me he is, lol!!
What valve are you using to get there?
What valve are you using to get there?
I am using Tim Hill’s valve. It came with his premium kit. Basically everything you already have, but with his Audrius regulator and his valve.
The one thing I’ll never quite find out, is when I first installed that kit I was in the high 860’s to low 850’s for like 26 shots. An extreme spread of about 15 psi, and only two turns on the hammmer screw.
Then I foolishly watched a video on you tube, where a guy runs a ball hone to buff the pressure tube up. When I say foolishly, I’m meaning I should have left everything alone. I like the fact that I de burred all the slots and hole in the pressure tube, and got it to a mirror finish on the inside.
But since then, for the life of me, I cannot get up to the 860’s anymore for that long a string. 856 FPS, if I recall, was what I was averaging with that string.
Oh, well. I’m so close to that 40/40 tune averaging 841, I’m just going to say I achieved it, lol
Here's a 40/40 tune I did, but was running 41 fpe for 35 shots instead, close enough. The notes at the bottom in the graph show I was using the Hill valve and also the ports Tim was talking about, but I was also using a Hill TP at .161 so I was restricted at that point and still made it. The reg was set 1950 psi as Tim talked about as well. hope this helps.
(https://image.ibb.co/ch890o/25_39_tune.jpg)
Some progress with mrod .25 strings 25.39gr with Huma set at 1800, starting at 3100psi.
Red is my 40/40
Purple is a power 34gr string 30/47
Blue for 55/38 near the valve lock point and wilder ES
Yellow was an attempt at reducing velocity with transfer port restriction of power tune only, poor shot count good ES.
Huma is the only purchased mod the rest came from the great contributions here using a small machine lathe and mill. Turned an MDS hammer with bronze insert, FFH with a stiff spring puts these strings within 3/4 of a turn preload.
Stock gen II valve, stock valve spring, .187 TP, 1/2 Bore, stock valve seat, .266" behind seat and ported. Turned bolt probe to 0.1" and shoulder turned back. Plastic line TP.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/atkvMeYIzApINJuqWHoLhuNygsEgEhkwr_1cj5pod1DLSAouancoYP_BsKkh4oRXt7nEVaqvYpsGpw=w2836-h1618)
Here's a free spreadsheet a made to share if you need one: Click here to download the free spreadsheet (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EBm-pOyrzbe_7awzH0Piii4KYHhR8Fev/view?usp=sharing
/)
Fixed the attached image with my strings. Really like that spread sheet, will import some string data!
Here's a free spreadsheet a made to share if you need one: Click here to download the free spreadsheet (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EBm-pOyrzbe_7awzH0Piii4KYHhR8Fev/view?usp=sharing
/)
I was going to take the reg out and drop the pressure a bit and found out something interesting - the degas tool won't work with the Hill hammer with supplied set screw striker. Won't reach far enough. So, instead of just removing the reg, I had to take the rifle apart to get to the hammer. I installed the stock striker and locked it down. Then put back together and degassed.Pulling the reg in and out and degassing is a pain that’s all about to go away. Sorry the video is so clunky I was trying to balance the gun adjust the reg and watch the gauge while filming all by myself(bad idea) ;D https://instagram.com/p/BlEXDu7HWXh/
I set the reg to about 130 bar, which is just at, or a bit shy of, 2k on the rifle gauge. We'll see what that does.
JSAR valve is best used unregulated it’s a power valve. The Hill valve is a good option but the WAR Cobra valve is probably the best valve made for regulating JMHO.
Here's a free spreadsheet a made to share if you need one: Click here to download the free spreadsheet (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EBm-pOyrzbe_7awzH0Piii4KYHhR8Fev/view?usp=sharing
/)
Keith,
How did you get to the tune in the spreadsheet? That looks just about perfect to me.... (upper 800's with the 25.4's for over 35 shots).
Kevin
You're suppose to replace them with your strings lol.
JSAR valve is best used unregulated it’s a power valve. The Hill valve is a good option but the WAR Cobra valve is probably the best valve made for regulating JMHO.
JSAR valve is best used unregulated it’s a power valve. The Hill valve is a good option but the WAR Cobra valve is probably the best valve made for regulating JMHO.
Will SECOND the WAR Cobra as an EXCELLENT valve in general & far better under regulation than any thing in the market place.
JSAR valve is best used unregulated it’s a power valve. The Hill valve is a good option but the WAR Cobra valve is probably the best valve made for regulating JMHO.
Will SECOND the WAR Cobra as an EXCELLENT valve in general & far better under regulation than any thing in the market place.
Is that valve compatible with the Twin Spring System?
It sure is and I would recommend the TSS with dual springs especially if you plan on using the upper scale of a reg. That valve closes back lightning fast and can be a little harder to crack open when approaching say a 2000psi set point. Very nice valve indeed and extremely efficient on air usage. It may also have had some revision from the original valve I have, but IDK of any personally.
The MDS "Super Hammer" from JSAR will make cocking much smoother. It wont gall the air tube like the metal hammers do. This will aid or eliminate double loading.
Most if not all of the issues with the MDS hammers stem from over tightening the hammer's lug screw. Doing this will warp or disfigure the hammer causing binding with the air tube. Just snug the cocking lug screw flush with the hammer and all should be fine.
With restricted air flow to the pellet skirt, cranking in the hammer spring is the only way to achieve enough valve lift to reach higher velocities. It is much preferred to have sufficient airflow with short burst of HPA to gain higher velocities and to achieve the best efficiency and the easiest cocking effort.
Using two springs, which the TSS does, greatly reduces the cocking effort verses one heavier spring. The TSS has more headroom than the stock end cap. The longer the spring you can fit, the easier the cocking effort will be for a given tune.
I will add that I have been running the JSAR valve regulated with great success, but I am doing so in a "power tune" configuration in a .25 cal Gen I Marauder. I am running it regulated at 2100 psi using a lightweight hammer and an original TSS with 0.190" ports. It is launching 34 grain JSBs at ~52 FPE, and is doing so at an efficiency level of 1.53 FPE/CI. I am very happy with the overall performance of this set up - very powerful, accurate, quiet, and with reasonable cocking efforts.Your correct Allan If you go beyond stock power levels and let the valve breath the JSAR valve is excellent not so at lower power levels though.
My gun gives me 24 shots at this level off a 3000 psi fill, but I am using a lightweight air tube with an extra 3 inches of length . . . .
Oh, another question - It was suggested to go to maybe 3/16" for the valve and barrel ports. Tim Hill said that he was concerned that going bigger than .16" on a stock valve might "chance a bent valve seat from the constant high pressure". Has anyone who has gone this big ever had a problem with it?
I will add that I have been running the JSAR valve regulated with great success, but I am doing so in a "power tune" configuration in a .25 cal Gen I Marauder. I am running it regulated at 2100 psi using a lightweight hammer and an original TSS with 0.190" ports. It is launching 34 grain JSBs at ~52 FPE, and is doing so at an efficiency level of 1.53 FPE/CI. I am very happy with the overall performance of this set up - very powerful, accurate, quiet, and with reasonable cocking efforts.
My gun gives me 24 shots at this level off a 3000 psi fill, but I am using a lightweight air tube with an extra 3 inches of length . . . .
I will add that I have been running the JSAR valve regulated with great success, but I am doing so in a "power tune" configuration in a .25 cal Gen I Marauder. I am running it regulated at 2100 psi using a lightweight hammer and an original TSS with 0.190" ports. It is launching 34 grain JSBs at ~52 FPE, and is doing so at an efficiency level of 1.53 FPE/CI. I am very happy with the overall performance of this set up - very powerful, accurate, quiet, and with reasonable cocking efforts.
My gun gives me 24 shots at this level off a 3000 psi fill, but I am using a lightweight air tube with an extra 3 inches of length . . . .
If you don't mind saying, where'd you get the longer lightweight tube?
I will add that I have been running the JSAR valve regulated with great success, but I am doing so in a "power tune" configuration in a .25 cal Gen I Marauder. I am running it regulated at 2100 psi using a lightweight hammer and an original TSS with 0.190" ports. It is launching 34 grain JSBs at ~52 FPE, and is doing so at an efficiency level of 1.53 FPE/CI. I am very happy with the overall performance of this set up - very powerful, accurate, quiet, and with reasonable cocking efforts.
My gun gives me 24 shots at this level off a 3000 psi fill, but I am using a lightweight air tube with an extra 3 inches of length . . . .
If you don't mind saying, where'd you get the longer lightweight tube?
Jefferson State Air rifles sells them
Jere you just call the shop we can make it with or without its up to you.I will add that I have been running the JSAR valve regulated with great success, but I am doing so in a "power tune" configuration in a .25 cal Gen I Marauder. I am running it regulated at 2100 psi using a lightweight hammer and an original TSS with 0.190" ports. It is launching 34 grain JSBs at ~52 FPE, and is doing so at an efficiency level of 1.53 FPE/CI. I am very happy with the overall performance of this set up - very powerful, accurate, quiet, and with reasonable cocking efforts.
My gun gives me 24 shots at this level off a 3000 psi fill, but I am using a lightweight air tube with an extra 3 inches of length . . . .
If you don't mind saying, where'd you get the longer lightweight tube?
Jefferson State Air rifles sells them
I had only looked at the one with the gauge port, and, apparently, you have to get one w/o the port in order to specify a custom length. I can't imagine doing without the gauge, so I guess it's not an option for me. Thanks.
I will add that I have been running the JSAR valve regulated with great success, but I am doing so in a "power tune" configuration in a .25 cal Gen I Marauder. I am running it regulated at 2100 psi using a lightweight hammer and an original TSS with 0.190" ports. It is launching 34 grain JSBs at ~52 FPE, and is doing so at an efficiency level of 1.53 FPE/CI. I am very happy with the overall performance of this set up - very powerful, accurate, quiet, and with reasonable cocking efforts.
My gun gives me 24 shots at this level off a 3000 psi fill, but I am using a lightweight air tube with an extra 3 inches of length . . . .
If you don't mind saying, where'd you get the longer lightweight tube?
Jefferson State Air rifles sells them
I had only looked at the one with the gauge port, and, apparently, you have to get one w/o the port in order to specify a custom length. I can't imagine doing without the gauge, so I guess it's not an option for me. Thanks.
Jere, just make sure and plan on picking up the synthetic, MDS hammer from JSA, also, as you do not want to run your factory steel hammer against an aluminum tube. Hopefully you’ll get perfect timing, and JSA will have that new no bounce synthetic hammer in stock, when you do order their tube. That little invention right there, is a game changer.