GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: EyeSlayer on February 29, 2016, 07:24:55 PM
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Forgive me if this question has been asked before. I'm pretty new to the PCP world I've owned a .22 Marauder for about three years now but that's my only PCP I've ever owned. I absolutely love my Marauder and I think I'm starting to get addicted to this PCP stuff!
As the title states I'm looking into a good PCP rifle under 1k. I'm not including the Marauder in this discussion because I already have one and love it but am looking at getting a different gun as maybe the start of a collection. I will be using this gun for small game hunting mostly starlings and sparrows so accuracy is a must. I'm open to either a .177 or .22 caliber I believe a .25 cal is overkill so forget that.
I'm looking at:
- Accuracy
- Cost/Value
- Features
- Shot count
- Reliability
- Weight/Length (smaller the better for me aka carbine but not a must)
Now I'll list the guns I've been looking at long and hard. These are just the guns I've been looking at that look nice to me to see what you all think and if there's something I missed by all means chime in I'm looking for opinions!
Here they are:
- BSA Scorpion SE ($700+ beech stock hard to find now in .177 & .22. Love the look of the gun and the carbine style)
- BSA Buccaneer SE ($489 nice looking gun with beech stock at a very good price and has same great barrel as the Scorpion but slightly larger gun I believe but still smaller than most)
- Air Arms S500 ($980 very nice gun with poplar stock but only single shot and quite a large gun but love the adjustable power function)
- Walther Rotek R8 ($700 very nice looking gun with Minelli stock and Lother Walther barrel. Why not so popular?)
- Sumatra 2500 Carbine ($650 love the lever action, the carbine style, and power adjustment plus it looks sweet and is powerful)
These are the guns I've been looking long and hard at I left out Hatsan because I really don't care for how they look and how long and heavy they are although I'm sure they are good guns. I've also left out the AirForce guns because I've heard mixed reviews on them but I would consider them if I'm really convinced they are cool looking guns. I also left out the fact I DO need a quiet report but considering most if not all can be equipped with a moderator loudness isn't really an issue.
Thanks for reading I'm looking forward to your opinions!
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I have a Brocock- light, accurate, modest power, 20 shots or so and compact.
I haven't used a sumatra, but I like the features.
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I'm not familiar with the Brocock although I've heard of it. I don't believe it's available at PA or AGD that I know of.
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Hey EyeSlayer,
Add the BSA R10 to the list if you count 10% off from AGD.
Got mine for $990 & $970 with 10% & 12% coupons.
They only come in .177 & .22 caliber. They're beautiful looking shooters ;).
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n227/kirk_schwarz/BSA%20R10-2%20003_zpsmrl8slwm.jpg) (http://s113.photobucket.com/user/kirk_schwarz/media/BSA%20R10-2%20003_zpsmrl8slwm.jpg.html)
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n227/kirk_schwarz/R10%20Stock%209-24%20005_zps4pex5emj.jpg) (http://s113.photobucket.com/user/kirk_schwarz/media/R10%20Stock%209-24%20005_zps4pex5emj.jpg.html)
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The Brocock Compatto definitely has my attention and is exactly in your price range.
Sumatra carbine with an aftermarket ldc is an excellent choice especially with variable power.
The BSA guns are also a good choice.
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Hard to find a more fun gun than the Sumatra carbine.
$ 585 after 10% off at Pyramyd will leave quite a few bucks to spend on other things
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If your looking for power and accuracy the Sumatra is the way to go. A well made LDC for about $125 plus $555 and your at $680 for a new Carbine. PA has 15% off with free shipping today.
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Wow Kirk that BSA R10 is a really good looking gun I knew that from the stock pictures I've seen but it looks even better in your photos! Who sells the Brocock I don't see it on either major website? Ive heard the Sumatra is meant more for very heavy pellets but does it shoot lighter pellets well? I would hate to think what would happen if I shot a sparrow with a 30 grain pellet!
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Wow Kirk that BSA R10 is a really good looking gun I knew that from the stock pictures I've seen but it looks even better in your photos! Who sells the Brocock I don't see it on either major website? Ive heard the Sumatra is meant more for very heavy pellets but does it shoot lighter pellets well? I would hate to think what would happen if I shot a sparrow with a 30 grain pellet!
Airguns of Arizona sells the Brocock.
The Sumatra probably shoots every popular pellet well, just adjust power for pellet weight. The key normally is to keep them around 900 fps.
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Thanks Lee I'll check it out. As Sam said PA has 15% off today only so I might have to pull the trigger soon 😁 sorry I had to say that!
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Wow Kirk that BSA R10 is a really good looking gun I knew that from the stock pictures I've seen but it looks even better in your photos! Who sells the Brocock I don't see it on either major website? Ive heard the Sumatra is meant more for very heavy pellets but does it shoot lighter pellets well? I would hate to think what would happen if I shot a sparrow with a 30 grain pellet!
On my Sumatra Carbine .22 I shot just about every pellet available, They shoot just about all of them really well, I liked the cheap Crosman at low power the gun was farely quiet even without LDC and getting a bunch of shots, than put the gun at full power and smack something with the 32gr EunJin :) :)
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I've heard great things about the BSA R10 mk2 ...makes me want one but out of budget right now or else
I would get one while they are on sale at PA.
I would say the BSA or a AA s510 carbine would be on my list
the BSA does come with a regulator out of box so that is a big plus...
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Lol that sounds like fun to me! The only real fault I've heard about the Sumatra is the fill probe but sounds like it can easily be replaced with a different one.
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I hear you Joe that R10 looks amazing and probably shoots just as good as it looks but that might be a little out of my range or being at the very tail end of it.
The AA s510 is another beautiful gun and I would love the carbine version but that is probably out of my price range no discounts with Air Arms guns. The s500 is in my range but is only a single shot 😞
I think all the BSA guns look amazing I love the look of the Scorpion & Ultra with the beech stock very sleek looking guns.
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SSSO.com sells the Brocock Contour S6 in single shot or 6 shot, Right now the US dollar is strong so $659.00 Canadian = $487. With the shipping and tariff a Contour S6 in Walnut would cost you about $600. Very nice gun I had on in a beech stock. No shroud so they are loud. Mike at TKO make an LDC for it making it backyard friendly.
https://www.specialtyshootingsportsoutdoors.com/air-gun/rifles/brocock.html (https://www.specialtyshootingsportsoutdoors.com/air-gun/rifles/brocock.html)
The beech single shot would cost you under $475 shipped. Some photos of my Concept. One with the TKO LDC.
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Lol that sounds like fun to me! The only real fault I've heard about the Sumatra is the fill probe but sounds like it can easily be replaced with a different one.
It's a 60 seconds Job, unscrew the unit and screw in the Foster that Pyramyd sells,..no need to take the air out.
as simple as that :)
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Sam all I see on that site is the Concept in single shot I don't see the Contour S6 at all. Maybe it's because I'm viewing it on my phone the whole website is messed up must not be mobile friendly.
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It's a 60 seconds Job, unscrew the unit and screw in the Foster that Pyramyd sells,..no need to take the air out.
as simple as that :)
By unit do you mean the fill probe itself or something on the air tank?
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Sam all I see on that site is the Concept in single shot I don't see the Contour S6 at all. Maybe it's because I'm viewing it on my phone the whole website is messed up must not be mobile friendly.
Sorry they are all single shot. I thought the walnut was the 6 shot. Call them in the morning and ask if they are getting any S6's in or have any in stock. The people there are very nice and helpful. Ive dealt with them a few times. 604 628 6801
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The only gun you listed that I would steer clear of is the BSA Buccaneer. That's only because it has the gamo trigger in it, I think. Those Sumatras are pretty darn cool guns, and can pretty much do anything you want them to do. Of course, the BSA are also great guns.
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It's a 60 seconds Job, unscrew the unit and screw in the Foster that Pyramyd sells,..no need to take the air out.
as simple as that :)
By unit do you mean the fill probe itself or something on the air tank?
The Fill unit where you put the probe in, use the probe for leverage and unscrew it, than screw in the Foster that Pyramyd sells,...honestly a 60 seconds job :)
Here it is
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/quick-disconnect-male-fitting-o-ring?a=2841 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/quick-disconnect-male-fitting-o-ring?a=2841)
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I was told by someone over the phone I forgot where that said the Buccaneer has a different trigger than the Gamo Coyote and that's exactly why I didn't include the Coyote cause I heard the trigger was pretty rough. They could be wrong but it does look different than the Coyote's although it might still be a Gamo trigger I suppose.
Thanks for the info Sam what do you think about the Contour G6? PA has a heck of a deal on it with a free Hawke scope and includes a moderator for $739! Reminds me of a BSA Ultra and I like the olive green stock a lot more than the Compatto's stock I do not like black synthetic stocks.
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If you want a single shot Contour in 22 cal there is one being sold with a real nice stock and LDC for $535. Cant go wrong for that price. Neil is know throughout the airgun community so no worries about the seller.
PM me for info on a new Hawke scope.
http://www.airgunnation.com/topic/for-sale-brocock-contour-22/ (http://www.airgunnation.com/topic/for-sale-brocock-contour-22/) This will not last long so if your serious contact the seller.
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Is that the S6 or the G6 for that price? I noticed PA says the Contour S6 only has a max of 16 ft lbs of energy where as the G6 has 23 ft lbs. They also state the Concept S6 only has 14.5 ft lbs of energy! It's a bigger gun than the Contour why is the velocity so poor? I don't want a gun with anything less than 20 ft lbs.
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Sumatra Carbine .22 with an Anthony Storey LDC some HN Barracuda Power (copper ) pellets will put the smack on Racoon and smaller game. On lower power with just about any 14gr pellet she is deadly accurate. Can't go wrong with a .22 Carbine very accurate plenty of shots and so nice to shoot ans shoulder.
Best of Luck Brother
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Thanks Valente! Seems most really like the Sumatra it does look like a great gun. I am defiantly leaning towards a carbine type. Can't believe no one has mentioned the Walther Rotek is it too new or just not that good?
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From your list:
BSA Scorpion, most accurate one and thus my favorite. My .25 is sub MOA gun at 100M. Nice quality and trigger.
AAS510, quite accurate and the best quality gun in your list. Has some limitations that I personally don't like (power, safety, shroud).
Sumatra, most powerful and lever action. Lacks in trigger and accuracy when compared to two above.
Buccaneer, GAMO trigger. Why buy one when Scorpion is still available.
Walther, I had a discussion with a respected gunsmith about these guns and he didn't have very good things to say about their construction. Mediocre single action trigger and some guns have had rather poor accuracy.
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Thanks for the info rkr that's good stuff. Now I know the Buccaneer is off my list! Do you know why no one is selling the Scorpion with the beech stock in .177 or .22 anymore did the Buccaneer replace it? What don't you like about the AA s510 in terms of power it's adjustable and quite powerful is it not? What don't you like about its shroud?
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Thanks for the info rkr that's good stuff. Now I know the Buccaneer is off my list! Do you know why no one is selling the Scorpion with the beech stock in .177 or .22 anymore did the Buccaneer replace it? What don't you like about the AA s510 in terms of power it's adjustable and quite powerful is it not? What don't you like about its shroud?
Beech stock Scorpions are available in other markets, you can also get walnut and woodland camo stocks.
AA PCP platform gets maxed out soon after 40 fpe while the BSA is easy to push past 50 fpe. Of course with enough mods anything is possible but BSA is easier to start with and 55fpe is relatively easy to get from .25 guns. It matters when you try shooting JSB kings in the 880-920 fps range for long range accuracy. For .22 guns that's not such a big deal as AA has enough power for most needs. AA barrel is also rather close to the air tube which means that you can not fit a shroud with adequate volume to make the gun quiet. This then means that you need to attach LDC in front of the shroud if you want a quiet gun which makes the gun really long. For BSAs you can get 28mm shrouds from Huub and they are very effective.
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Sumatra carbine would definitely fit the bill all right. Another option would be a tuned RS II.
Whatever gun you go for, keep this in mind.
You want something that can be used as an all purpose hunting & plinking rig, & with that in mind you really should lean toward the .25 cal. A starling is just as dead when shot from a .25 as it is when shot from a .177/.22, the .25 will just make it easier to take longer shots or hunt larger critters down the line if you chose to.
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Sumatra carbine would definitely fit the bill all right. Another option would be a tuned RS II.
Whatever gun you go for, keep this in mind.
You want something that can be used as an all purpose hunting & plinking rig, & with that in mind you really should lean toward the .25 cal. A starling is just as dead when shot from a .25 as it is when shot from a .177/.22, the .25 will just make it easier to take longer shots or hunt larger critters down the line if you chose to.
I would steer clear of RS2 unless you can fix it's shortcomings. They have huge power potential but they also have some design faults and mediocre QC. Agree on .25, that's the way to go for long range pellet shooter.
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I am a big fan of the Airforce line of guns myself, this is my FT Hunter setup for this year at under a grand.
(http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a446/Grimeszee/Air%20Guns/20160225_201645-1_zpsgzawpubv.jpg) (http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/Grimeszee/media/Air%20Guns/20160225_201645-1_zpsgzawpubv.jpg.html)
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Is that the S6 or the G6 for that price? I noticed PA says the Contour S6 only has a max of 16 ft lbs of energy where as the G6 has 23 ft lbs. They also state the Concept S6 only has 14.5 ft lbs of energy! It's a bigger gun than the Contour why is the velocity so poor? I don't want a gun with anything less than 20 ft lbs.
Not sure about the fpe but go by what the website says. I had two Brocock Contour S6's. One shot AA 16 grain at 23 fpe the other shot H&N 14.66 at 21 fpe. Both were very accurate. The one in the photos liked AA 16 grain and shot groups inside a dime at 40 yards consistently(still sorry I traded that gun).
Both guns got about 18 -21 shots a on a 2900 psi fill. Filling the small tube from 1800 to 2900 psi took about 35 - 40 pumps with a Hill pump. Very very air efficient for non regulated guns. When I filled with a 88 cu ft tank the tank would last me a long time between fills.
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Rkr you make some good points. Do you know why the beech & walnut aren't available in the U.S.? I can get the beech in .25 cal all day long but not .177 & .22 I wonder why?
Ricky, I think .25 would be overkill for my situation the furthest I would be shooting is 50 yards. Plus I already have a bunch of .177 & .22 ammo on hand and don't feel like spending a bunch of money on pellets again. I also shoot a lot of sparrows and my .22 MRod turns them into jello as it is!
Sam, from my understanding they make an XL version and non XL version you must of had the XL version which gives you more fps. They also have deluxe and non deluxe models and I believe the non deluxe don't even get pressure gauges which would be a deal breaker for me. On either their website or the Canadian one you told me about they claim 1/2" groups at 30 yards! I'm getting less than dime shot groups with my Marauder at that range so that makes me wonder why they would claim that.
Nice gun Kevin! My only complaint with AirForce guns is that I've heard they aren't really as accurate as others and they are only single shots I prefer a multi shot.
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Knowing the power on tap w/the Sumatra I can't imagine it in .177. It was on my 'gonna get it' list but I find I'm drawn to something more akin to a bullpup. That said, I've had the opportunity to fire a couple of Norman's Sumatra's and they are fine guns. Loads of power and accurate.
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For those listed the Air Arms S500 is the most elegant by a long shot, and quiet. I have an Air Force SS that is plenty accurate, at least this one is. If you can stomach the the faux military styling the AF costs less than the Air Arms. I have never figured out why a repeater is a necessity in an air weapon, unless you plan on missing a lot, or have waves of rabid zombie squirrels that attack regularly. For birds I'd go .177, shoots flatter and in a PCP is still probably overkill for them.
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Thanks for the info gg51. Air Arms are extremely nice guns from what I've heard they are really accurate, very nice looking and well made hard to beat that if I could afford a s510 I would buy it in a heartbeat. The reason for the repeater is that you can stay on target in the case you do miss. Might not be a big deal for some as I've made something like 30 or more consecutive one shot kills with my Mrod. There have been a few instances where I'll shoot a bird and then taken a second bird that was near the first one which wouldn't have been nearly as easy with a single shot. I agree with your take on the .177 for birds even a .22 is a little overkill and a .25 cal there would be nothing left but feathers!
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Rkr you make some good points. Do you know why the beech & walnut aren't available in the U.S.? I can get the beech in .25 cal all day long but not .177 & .22 I wonder why?
Probably importer decision. They've sold out the beech stock guns and now wait for the synthetics to go out before ordering a new batch. If you fancy .177 a carbine version of Scorpion SE is rather compact and usually prints 1/2" or smaller groups at 50 yards. The power can be upped quite easily to 15-16 fpe for flat trajectory if you so wish. Here's mine:
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/SE-winter_zpsxaz7zdrl.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/SE-winter_zpsxaz7zdrl.jpg.html)
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Thanks that does make sense. Love your Scorpion that is a really good looking gun! I'm interested to know why you went with the shroud over a moderator is it quieter or is it just because it makes the gun shorter without having a moderator at the end? How much would that shroud set me back I can get a TKO mod for under $100 for that gun.
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Thanks that does make sense. Love your Scorpion that is a really good looking gun! I'm interested to know why you went with the shroud over a moderator is it quieter or is it just because it makes the gun shorter without having a moderator at the end? How much would that shroud set me back I can get a TKO mod for under $100 for that gun.
A proper shroud has more volume than a regular 30mm LDC thus making it more quiet while allowing for a shorter overall length. XTX sells Huub shrouds and they are very good ones:
http://xtxair.com/eshop.php# (http://xtxair.com/eshop.php#)!/Shroud-Bullbarrel-Huub-15-barrel-version/p/32626693/category=15507031
Personally I went a bit overkill with that CF shroud, it's as long as normal LDC. Loudest noise is pellet hitting target, then comes the hammer hitting the valve and actual muzzle blast is really hard to detect.
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I noticed it says the shroud goes past the barrel 5 1/2" so in reality it's not much shorter if any than an LDC then?
I've been looking at that R10 MK2 a little more and man that's a nice gun is that as quiet as a Marauder? That's at the very tail end of my range but boy that's a fine gun.
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I noticed it says the shroud goes past the barrel 5 1/2" so in reality it's not much shorter if any than an LDC then?
I've been looking at that R10 MK2 a little more and man that's a nice gun is that as quiet as a Marauder? That's at the very tail end of my range but boy that's a fine gun.
Effective LDCs are about 200mm long and 30mm in diameter, some even bigger. Factory shroud in R10 is a joke, get a VC version instead.
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I put a poll up to get a general idea of who likes what. I didn't include the Marauder simply because as I stated earlier I already have one and love it to death but want a different gun it's in no way forgotten.
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You don't have a .25 Mrod though. ;D out of the guns listed the Sumatra is a powerhouse for the price.the condors are nice also. I also like the s500z. Lol probably not helping much. I don't think you would do wrong with any of those really.. Only downfall on most of those listed are parts availability.
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Lol I knew someone would say that! Looks like the Sumatra is a popular choice
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I was looking at the BSA R10 and looking hard. I then found the .177 Daystate Regal (about $200 more), I picked up the phone and was talking about it at the same time the picture above it was a Daystate MK4. Before I realized what I was saying, I told him I want the MK4. I have not looked back. Daystate is a very quality rifle with the new slingshot valve that saves air and offers more shots. :) With my 144cc air tube I got 145 shots:
AVG 896.36 15.42
ES 42.20
SD 10.07
If the Regal XL is anything like the MK4 I would say go for it. It is the most accurate PCP I have ever shot and I have shot a few. :)
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The one gun I bought the most recently that I found some actual happiness with, (After I found the right pellets!) was the BSA Buccaneer SE. It was a .177 I swore up and down I would never get a .177 but it was too good a deal to pass up! (That and it was close to my birthday! It was $320 for a few days on AMZ before they figured out their mistake. A few of us on this forum got a great deal!) I know there are lots of 'trigger snobs' out there, but this one had a decent enough trigger that I didn't have issues with it. (I am not criticizing great triggers,, not at all, not at all! Or the snobs...) But for a basic field gun that you could pick off a lot of small pesky sparrows with, I think this gun would be fine.
My one and biggest gripe with the gun is the loud report with no moderator. This thing sounds like a .22 short rimfire. NOT backyard friendly!
I also had issues finding a decent pellet combo for the rifle. Not a single Gamo pellet got a decent enough group to even push out past 20 yards. One group was about 5" and looked like the proverbial shotgun pattern! Gamo might need to rethink their pellet situation since they sell a lot of guns to the 'Mericans and they use FPS instead of accuracy as the main selling point. I usually prefer accuracy. I think most of us here do!
However, with JSB's and even Xman premiers I was getting decent groups at 40 yards. After that I turned the Gamo pellets into fishing tackle and Aircraft counterbalances for my control surfaces! ;) (Gamo and Daisy pellets go into the lead recovery bucket from now on! Never to be shot through a gun previous to recycling!)
If I eventually find a legal moderator that has a semi permanent mounting for the barrel. I think I will have a great backyard gun. As it is with the screw on and off 'barrel protector/flash suppressor/muzzle break' I don't think the government will go along with a screw on/off muffler. That is one of the only laws I envy about the British crew across the pond. Need a silencer? Go buy one and screw it on. Of course you can't have a 12 foot pound or higher rifle in "Jolly Old". I'll take the heavy hitters anyday... and a loud gun. Whooo! Go 'Merica!
I digressed... agin! I do that... Sue me... if you can find me.... but don't bother... I got no money...
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My vote is for the Sumatra
They are not pellet picky and you can adjust power on the fly.
They can be loud so you might want to look into an ldc.
Dave
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I almost bought the Buccaneer but waited. Found out it's got a Gamo trigger and that was the last time I considered it! It looks like a nice gun other than that though.
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I almost bought the Buccaneer but waited. Found out it's got a Gamo trigger and that was the last time I considered it! It looks like a nice gun other than that though.
I was told the Gamo trigger with a little work can be made to shoot nicely.
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Wish I had the money for that MK4 Booger! I've heard mixed reviews about the Rainstorm II some love it others seem to not like it so much say accuracy isn't to good.
I'll add the Buccaneer to the list in case some want to vote for it
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I have a .177 Rotek and it is a nice rifle but there are definitely better rifles on your list that are miles ahead in the quality department. Mine just got sent off for a tune mostly just to lower the power to add shots but the trigger is the downfall of the Rotek. Some people complain about the cast parts (the same used in the 850 AirMagnum) but I see no trouble with that. Accuracy is great but would be super duper great with a half decent trigger.
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Sounds like I made a good decision on holding off on that gun Justin. I have an 850 myself and absolutely love the trigger on that thing it's a hair trigger! I would of thought the Rotek's would have been the same or similar sounds like it's a totally different trigger for the worse. I'm also shocked being German made that it is lacking in quality no wonder it's not to popular a gun.
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Forget what I said about the Rainstorm Jesse I got my guns confused I'll check out the Regal at PA.
Just checked it out $1385 for the Regal XL at PA and that's on sale ouch!
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As far as I know they are the same trigger but the Walther has a very stiff hammer spring to get the power up and it hurts the trigger. Atleast that's how I understand it. After owning the Rotek for awhile I would say that it would be a great mid priced rifle if it sold for around $500 but $700 is just asking a bit too much (I do like it enough so I don't regret buying it, that's why it's off getting a tune up). You can use a coupon for the Rotek at PA so it can be had for less though.
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The Sportsmansguide had it for $540 with their free 10% off members promotion with free shipping but they sold out of them a few days ago but might be getting more in. The trigger problem you described does make sense I can see that being an issue that trigger might be a little to weak for that gun.
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Hey EyeSlayer,
If I wanted a great hunting gun in your price range, I think the Sumatra in .22 or .25 would be the way to go. Bigger game, then maybe the .30 caliber ;).
But I'm a plinker and target shooter at this point in my life -> only. I also, really appreciate a beautiful (piece of art) gun. That's why I went with the BSA R10's, more aimed toward the fine art of shooting and appreciating it's style, rather taking out bigger game.
From a mechanical point of view, the R10 is more advanced than the AAS510, and a better shooting platform. However, I still want a Walnut, thumb hole version (AAS510) some day :D.
From what I've read & understand you intend to use the gun for, the R10 in both calibers should be enough and deliver 60 to 70 good shots using the 10 shot magazine.
After owning 20+ rifles (Springer's & PCP's) I can honestly say, buying fewer, nicer guns, is the way to go. Otherwise, you get to the point where you can't remember their names anymore ::).
These days, I mostly just shoot the R10's and QB's -> Good Luck ...... Tough Choice.
Bye the way, the QB is the most underrated gun of them all ................
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n227/kirk_schwarz/BSA%20Final%20004_zpselvf0rpo.jpg) (http://s113.photobucket.com/user/kirk_schwarz/media/BSA%20Final%20004_zpselvf0rpo.jpg.html)
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n227/kirk_schwarz/BSA%20Final%20033_zpshnp5rulc.jpg) (http://s113.photobucket.com/user/kirk_schwarz/media/BSA%20Final%20033_zpshnp5rulc.jpg.html)
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n227/kirk_schwarz/QB78%20Love%20004_zpsccetil2a.jpg) (http://s113.photobucket.com/user/kirk_schwarz/media/QB78%20Love%20004_zpsccetil2a.jpg.html)
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n227/kirk_schwarz/R10%20.22%20cal%20005_zpstydeft5n.jpg) (http://s113.photobucket.com/user/kirk_schwarz/media/R10%20.22%20cal%20005_zpstydeft5n.jpg.html)
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Thanks for the info and advice Kirk! Power is lower on my list of priorities I don't need a super powerful gun something that's accurate in the 20-30ftlb range is what I'm looking for I don't need something that has 40+ftlbs of energy that would just be overkill. A good looking accurate shooter is more what I'm looking for and I do prefer a carbine type over full size. I won't be shooting raccoons or larger animals with this gun. That being said the guns mentioned with the power adjustment are a nice feature to have but I don't have to have it. I thought the BSA Scorpion would be a good option or possibly the Ultra. The gun I would want most and buy in a heartbeat is the AAS510 Carbine it's got everything I'm looking for unfortunately it's out of my price range.
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Thanks for the info and advice Kirk! Power is lower on my list of priorities I don't need a super powerful gun something that's accurate in the 20-30ftlb range is what I'm looking for I don't need something that has 40+ftlbs of energy that would just be overkill. A good looking accurate shooter is more what I'm looking for and I do prefer a carbine type over full size. I won't be shooting raccoons or larger animals with this gun. That being said the guns mentioned with the power adjustment are a nice feature to have but I don't have to have it. I thought the BSA Scorpion would be a good option or possibly the Ultra. The gun I would want most and buy in a heartbeat is the AAS510 Carbine it's got everything I'm looking for unfortunately it's out of my price range.
If Ultra is in your price range it's a cracking little gun. In UK it's actually some 150$ cheaper than Scorpion so you in USA are getting good deals on Scorpions. Anyway, .177 version is best left around 12-14 fpe but you can push the .22 past 20 fpe if you want. Add Huub regulator and shroud and you have a very nice and short hunting rig.
Since you talk about compact guns, have you considered bullpups? A Vulcan with their CZ barrels or maybe even FX Wildcat (if they have sorted out their problems) might be worth consideration.
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It's funny you mention that cause I was just wondering why on earth the Ultra was more expensive than the Scorpion over here it's almost half the size! It's a very good looking little gun I just cannot justify paying an extra $140 for a gun that is going to preform less than the Scorpion if anything the only thing that is has is it's shorter than the Scorpion. I don't see your vote for the Scorpion in the poll it needs some help!
I didn't even consider a bullpup I think they are all over a thousand dollars but I could be wrong.
*Confirmed the FX Wildcat is $1400 here in the states and I don't even think the Vulcan is available.
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It's funny you mention that cause I was just wondering why on earth the Ultra was more expensive than the Scorpion over here it's almost half the size! It's a very good looking little gun I just cannot justify paying an extra $140 for a gun that is going to preform less than the Scorpion if anything the only thing that is has is it's shorter than the Scorpion. I don't see your vote for the Scorpion in the poll it needs some help!
I didn't even consider a bullpup I think they are all over a thousand dollars but I could be wrong.
*Confirmed the FX Wildcat is $1400 here in the states and I don't even think the Vulcan is available.
For .177 and .22 and for your intended use R10 is better gun than Scorpion having adjustable trigger blade, regulator and more shots / fill. It's weak point is the regulator design, if tolerances are a bit wrong from the factory (not very common in late production guns) it will not work as intended in the long run. That can be fixed with aftermarket (surprisingly Huub) regulator. For .25 or maximum power Scorpion is a better choice as it's not limited by the regulator plenum size. Personally I'd still save the money and got a Scorpion if I was you but you but that's just me being cheapskate. Actually my ideal .177/.22 gun would be a shrouded Scorpion with short 15" barrel and long air cylinder. That would give the compactness and good shot count while being very quiet and capable of 28-30 fpe in .22.
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Lol I hear you 😁! There is a large price difference between the Scorpion & R10 like a $340 difference that's a pretty good piece of change! The only problem is the avaibility of the Scorpion in the beech stock they aren't even around anymore in .177 or .22 😠
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Lol I hear you 😁! There is a large price difference between the Scorpion & R10 like a $340 difference that's a pretty good piece of change! The only problem is the avaibility of the Scorpion in the beech stock they aren't even around anymore in .177 or .22 😠
Get a .25 and I'll trade the .25 parts for .22 parts if you settle yourself for a known good Ratworks prepped 15" barrel :)
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I didn't even consider a bullpup I think they are all over a thousand dollars but I could be wrong.
*Confirmed the FX Wildcat is $1400 here in the states and I don't even think the Vulcan is available.
Hatsan just released the Gladius bullpup. There's a few threads on it here already. Many are getting it for under $800.
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Some very good rifles are included in your list my friend.Add to that some fantastic options proposed by many of us here and...there you are...happily perplexed...
Good luck to you,no matter what your choise might be at the end I am sure you are going to enjoy it!! ;D ;D ;D
As for me my vote goes to the AA S-500 carbine .22
By far the most beautiful gun I've ever had (hands down best bluing/matched with a fantastic walnut stock).Not only a beautiful gun,it's also a unique combo of some of the finest parts (trigger,barrel,side lever just to mention some).In .22 you have enough power for the caliber,excellent accuracy and a power adjuster for every use!Is it loud?Yes it is.Add a moderator (bit long but...not THAT long) and nobody will hear anything again.As far as regards transforming it into a repeater at a later time here is a link:
http://rowanengineering.com/products.htm (http://rowanengineering.com/products.htm)
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The problem is the Hatsan is heavy and he is looking for a lightweight carbine,
Its a bummer your budget is 1200-1300 as that would open up the Taipan and used vulcans and crickets.
One other option if you like the compact bullpup option is the P12 with repeater breech I think its about $850
weight around 7lbs ish the cocking lever is at the back but its something to consider.
And I'm told you can't go wrong with AA and I just noticed the 200 is on your list
that is another great rifle... pretty tough choice :-\
I might try posting and seeing if you can find anyone nearby that has any of
the gun your interested in so you can shoot them and see what you think.
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Hey EyeSlayer,
After looking at the AA S510 Carbine on Pyramyd Air, that gun only weighs 6.4 lbs ;) and represents everything you want. IMHO, since the R10 is 1 lb more & longer, I would wait and buy your true love the AA S510 Carbine.
Save up a little longer, you will never look back on this as a mistake 8)
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You might just be onto something there Kirk. I was thinking about saving up a little more and getting the gun I truly want which is not on the list because of cost the AA S510 Carbine. It's got everything I'm looking for but I gotta save up a little more to get that bad boy.
I agree Joe if my budget were in the $1200-$1300 range that would open a lot more doors it seems. I'll check out the other guns you guys mentioned.
If anyone happens to see the AA S510 Carbine on sale please give me shout! I think I would even settle for the 500 Carbine and that is under $1000 but at the very tail end of my budget and I would prefer the 510 over it.
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Hey EyeSlayer,
After looking at the AA S510 Carbine on Pyramyd Air, that gun only weighs 6.4 lbs ;) and represents everything you want. IMHO, since the R10 is 1 lb more & longer, I would wait and buy your true love the AA S510 Carbine.
Save up a little longer, you will never look back on this as a mistake 8)
The AA carbine is extremely light. I agree if you truly want the AA carbine save a little longer or pick one up on the classifieds.
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Used Air Arms S510 Extra Fac superlite .177 for $750 shipped.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/message/1456938909/Air+Arms+S510+Extra+Fac+superlite+177 (http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/message/1456938909/Air+Arms+S510+Extra+Fac+superlite+177)
In a couple of months FT starts in the northeast. 4 events in Rochester. Crosman Regional is the weekend of July 8th. Crosman did a great job last summer. BBQ/food was really good and Crosman discounts all of their products at the event.
Rochester Brooks Gun Club
962 Honeoye Falls 6 Rd
Rush, NY 14543
Calendar to FT events: http://www.bcsportsmen.org/ft/schedule.html (http://www.bcsportsmen.org/ft/schedule.html)
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Sam beat me to it :D get a message to him asap I'm sure someone will jump on that in minutes!
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Thanks Sam I'll check that out I'm not really into used guns but that's a heck of a price. The Crosman Regional sounds like fun I might just have to look into that.
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I have been looking at this very question, but from the perspective of a full-blown left-hander. Many of the guns I would like to consider - AA, Walther, Weihrauch, Evanix, Brocock, and others - have to be thrown out because the bolt is on the wrong side. I would love to play with the BSA R-10, but the stock is decidedly right handed, another common issue.
So beside the Marauder (gen 2 only for left-hand friendly), my choice narrows down quickly:
Scorpion
Daystate (left hand by special order, and at additional cost over the current $1300).
The scorpion can be found close to $600 if a synthetic stock will meet your needs. I'm personally looking at a .177 wood stocked rifle, so the price jumps over a hundred bucks more.
So far as daystate goes, I have a Daystate Harrier single shot .22 with a fine walnut left hand stock that I love to death. I would say that if you can find a good deal on a used Huntsman, regal or Harrer, (heck I guess any of them), that will probably provide the best long term value and smile factor for your dollar. Or, possibly this used HW100 at Pamona Airguns http://www.pomona-airguns.com/shop/index.php?route=product/product&path=60_90&product_id=180&sort=p.price&order=DESC (http://www.pomona-airguns.com/shop/index.php?route=product/product&path=60_90&product_id=180&sort=p.price&order=DESC)
If anyone knows of other fully left-hand capable choices, I would love to hear it.
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Sorry to hear that Mark I feel your pain. I remember while playing baseball in high school there was only one mitt for us left handers and there were a few of us in the bunch and we had to race to get the only lefty mitt! I can't believe in this day and age there aren't more options available to lefties there are more out there than people think.
I to noticed the synthetic Scorpion was a lot less than the beech version but I don't like the look of synthetic stocks. It's a shame the beech version isn't more readily available in .177 caliber matter of fact I haven't been able to find one yet but I did find a couple .22's still out there. No one voted for it in the poll though which makes me wonder.
Daystate is top of the line and would love to have one but are really expensive new and I cannot get myself to buy a used gun not that there's anything wrong with that I just prefer new.
I've been checking out bullpups recently and stumbled onto the Vulcan and super expensive Daystate Pulsar and all I can say is wow... The Pulsar is so futuristic it should be in Star Wars and that Vulcan shoots one hole groups at 50 yards without even a thought the accuracy is off the charts. Even 130+ yard shots are no problem with that gun and here I thought my Marauder was accurate gracious!
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The Air Arms s500/s510 are imported in my country for left handers (stock&side lever fit).In case you can't find one over there,the side lever can be easily adjusted(moved to the other side) for left hand use.The same is for the bolt of the s400/s410 series (and I suspect of many of their other rifles as well).I am not sure about the original bolt but here is a 3rd part (just to mention one):
http://www.airgunbuyer.com/details.asp?cat=Custom%20Parts&SubCat=Air%20Arms%20Custom%20Parts&Product=2884 (http://www.airgunbuyer.com/details.asp?cat=Custom%20Parts&SubCat=Air%20Arms%20Custom%20Parts&Product=2884)
About stock on their list there are for right or left hand use as well as ambidextrous ones!
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The Air Arms s500/s510 are imported in my country for left handers (stock&side lever fit).In case you can't find one over there,the side lever can be easily adjusted(moved to the other side) for left hand use.The same is for the bolt of the s400/s410 series (and I suspect of many of their other rifles as well).I am not sure about the original bolt but here is a 3rd part (just to mention one):
http://www.airgunbuyer.com/details.asp?cat=Custom%20Parts&SubCat=Air%20Arms%20Custom%20Parts&Product=2884 (http://www.airgunbuyer.com/details.asp?cat=Custom%20Parts&SubCat=Air%20Arms%20Custom%20Parts&Product=2884)
About stock on their list there are for right or left hand use as well as ambidextrous ones!
Hmmm, I just contacted PA yesterday about this AA rifle, they said the bolt couldnt be moved to the left https://www.pyramydair.com/product/air-arms-s510-tc-pcp-air-rifle?m=2386 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/air-arms-s510-tc-pcp-air-rifle?m=2386)
And I saw at least three reviews of the ultimate sporter where they said the lever on the right side was not that much of a problem for lefties, made me just a little mad that a company would shove it down my throat. I will contact AA and double check.
As for wood Scorpion .177 I'm almost ready to push the button http://www.amazon.com/BSA-1107-Scorpion-Pre-Charged-Beechwood/dp/B00CXAG0L8/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1456971083&sr=8-6&keywords=bsa+scorpion+se (http://www.amazon.com/BSA-1107-Scorpion-Pre-Charged-Beechwood/dp/B00CXAG0L8/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1456971083&sr=8-6&keywords=bsa+scorpion+se)
And used Daystates? Here is a nice one but the guy didnt email back, dont know if he's slow or a scam http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/message/1456767574/Daystate+Harrier+X+in+.22+with+left+handed+target+stock (http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/message/1456767574/Daystate+Harrier+X+in+.22+with+left+handed+target+stock)
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I am a lefty also and have gotten so used to the bolt being on the right side of the gun I think I actually prefer it now. As long as the stock is ambi.
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I am a lefty also and have gotten so used to the bolt being on the right side of the gun I think I actually prefer it now. As long as the stock is ambi.
+1
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I have been looking at this very question, but from the perspective of a full-blown left-hander. Many of the guns I would like to consider - AA, Walther, Weihrauch, Evanix, Brocock, and others - have to be thrown out because the bolt is on the wrong side. I would love to play with the BSA R-10, but the stock is decidedly right handed, another common issue.
So beside the Marauder (gen 2 only for left-hand friendly), my choice narrows down quickly:
Scorpion
Daystate (left hand by special order, and at additional cost over the current $1300).
The scorpion can be found close to $600 if a synthetic stock will meet your needs. I'm personally looking at a .177 wood stocked rifle, so the price jumps over a hundred bucks more.
So far as daystate goes, I have a Daystate Harrier single shot .22 with a fine walnut left hand stock that I love to death. I would say that if you can find a good deal on a used Huntsman, regal or Harrer, (heck I guess any of them), that will probably provide the best long term value and smile factor for your dollar. Or, possibly this used HW100 at Pamona Airguns http://www.pomona-airguns.com/shop/index.php?route=product/product&path=60_90&product_id=180&sort=p.price&order=DESC (http://www.pomona-airguns.com/shop/index.php?route=product/product&path=60_90&product_id=180&sort=p.price&order=DESC)
If anyone knows of other fully left-hand capable choices, I would love to hear it.
Guys are buying HW100's for under a thousand delivered from Krale-Sports in the Netherlands. From what I have read 99% of the buyers have been happy, the one that wasnt happy had a problem with UPS shipping but at the end he was a happy camper.
The HW100 is a real nice airgun with many upgrades available. New for under a $1000 shipped its a steal.
Site Link: http://www.krale-schietsport.nl/en/weihrauch-hw100-tk.html (http://www.krale-schietsport.nl/en/weihrauch-hw100-tk.html)
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If you can order from that site, there's also a good deal on the SPA P10 (regulated P12 and with multishot), here is the link:
http://www.krale-schietsport.nl/en/spa-p10.html (http://www.krale-schietsport.nl/en/spa-p10.html)
It cost about 630USD with shipping + tax or whatever you have to pay to import airgun.
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A greatvdeal on a used regal XLhttp://www.airgunnation.com/topic/wts-daystate-huntsman-xl-177/#post-73755
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I am a lefty also and have gotten so used to the bolt being on the right side of the gun I think I actually prefer it now. As long as the stock is ambi.
Too bad you cant do like Jimi Hendrix and just shoot it upside down ???
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A greatvdeal on a used regal XLhttp://www.airgunnation.com/topic/wts-daystate-huntsman-xl-177/#post-73755
That is a good deal, if I had the cash I might jump on it. :) then again my MK4 is just right for me.
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That HW100 looks nice but a couple things. The .177 is out of stock and if that's the Euro it comes to $840 minus shipping but how much is the shipping? Never heard of this gun before how does it compair to a BSA R10? The R10's stock wins hands down I know that much.
Thelast if that's the P12 I'm thinking of its Chinese and I've heard it's not the best quality. Ted from Ted's Holdover ripped that gun saying the accuracy wasn't that great and the stock was bland as well as other things. For that price they had to cut some corners.
Mark that would be really hard for me to pay that price on Amazon for the Scorpion. $723 + tax for me that's $780 when I can get the same gun in synthetic for $540 at PA with 10% off discount so very hard to justify paying $240 more for the beech stock. If it were $50-100 more I could justify it.
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That HW100 looks nice but a couple things. The .177 is out of stock and if that's the Euro it comes to $840 minus shipping but how much is the shipping? Never heard of this gun before how does it compair to a BSA R10? The R10's stock wins hands down I know that much.
There are 6 different HW100 models listed. I saw 3 available in .177. The HW100 is a very well made gun. The magazine system, regulator, HW barrel, and trigger are 1st class. The right model HW100 in .177 makes 22 fpe out of the box.
I never held or shot a BSA R10 but next time BSA Optics put them on sale I will most likley buy one in .177. They make about 18 fpe out of the box. BSA HF barrels are know for being very accurate. Some guys complain the regulator needs to be upgraded to Huma.
If I had to pick one at the same price point it would be a thumb hole stock walnut HW100. I do like the R10 stock and looks better. R10 is also lighter. Check out some you-tube videos of both.
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If i had a grand to spend on a gun id definetly get this one.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=105420.msg956265;boardseen#new (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=105420.msg956265;boardseen#new)
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If i had a grand to spend on a gun id definetly get this one.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=105420.msg956265;boardseen#new (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=105420.msg956265;boardseen#new)
I posted this earlier in the thread. Walnut Brocock Contour single shot with a NC LDC. Cant believe its still avalible at this price with a Simmons 4 x 12 x 40 AO scope and shipped. If I wasnt saving for a bench rest gun and compressor it would have been gone.
http://www.airgunnation.com/topic/for-sale-brocock-contour-22/ (http://www.airgunnation.com/topic/for-sale-brocock-contour-22/)
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Sam I see they have a shrouded version for slightly more I take it that would make it quieter than the ones with the LDC? At least the other compact versions look like they come with an LDC but it doesn't state it. Also how much would the shipping cost do you know?
Lee what draws you to the Compatto so much? I don't even think it's regulated is it? Other than the different power adjustments I don't see much to it. Talked to a guy at AOA that told me Brocock is going under they are going to stop selling them.
How do both of these guns compair to an Air Arms S510? I will put both guns up on the poll.
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This just came up on the yellow:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/message/1457041744/WTS-WTT-+AA+510+carbine+22 (http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/message/1457041744/WTS-WTT-+AA+510+carbine+22)
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Not sure if one is more quite than the other. My friend has both I will ask him tomorrow. The .177's rated at 22 fpe with the LDC is longer compared the shrouded .177 rated at 22 fpe. The 22 fpe with the ldc is 48", too long for any airgun IMO. Shrouded is a manageable 44". Your Mrod I think is 44".
The nice thing about HW100's is they have been around for awhile and aftermarket parts are available. Stuff like a quality single shot adapters, HW barrels in different lengths that fit with no machining, LDC's/shrouds and lightweight air tubes. Like I said earlier the magazine system and trigger are some of the best around.
The last guy I saw post said the €945 HW100 cost him under $1000 delivered.
Under "Add to cart" in blue click the link shipping outside the European Union.
Edit: The magazine system is side lever and the mags are nicely machined metal. There are some nice aftermarket side levers handles and triggers.
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The Air Arms s500/s510 are imported in my country for left handers (stock&side lever fit).In case you can't find one over there,the side lever can be easily adjusted(moved to the other side) for left hand use.The same is for the bolt of the s400/s410 series (and I suspect of many of their other rifles as well).I am not sure about the original bolt but here is a 3rd part (just to mention one):
http://www.airgunbuyer.com/details.asp?cat=Custom%20Parts&SubCat=Air%20Arms%20Custom%20Parts&Product=2884 (http://www.airgunbuyer.com/details.asp?cat=Custom%20Parts&SubCat=Air%20Arms%20Custom%20Parts&Product=2884)
About stock on their list there are for right or left hand use as well as ambidextrous ones!
I emailed Air Arms directly and asked if the side lever on the S510 ultimate sporter or the S510TC could be changed to the left side. They said no.
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Thanks for the info Sam it sounds like a good gun. I wonder how quiet it is with the shrouded version if it's anything like my Marauder that would be good.
Does anyone know more info on the Brocock Compatto anyone own one? It does look interesting just not as popular as some others it seems.
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https://www.pyramydair.com/product/air-arms-s510-tc-pcp-air-rifle?m=2386 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/air-arms-s510-tc-pcp-air-rifle?m=2386)
Very nice option and at a great price from a good vendor. I don't know how would it feel with those twin cylinders but here's a review https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY78YbfZbTA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY78YbfZbTA)
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Recently tested the Brocock Compatto, and it is a really nice rifle. In my review, I mention it was underpowered and was going in for repairs. Looks like it was a bad o-ring on the breech seal.
http://www.airgunsarp.com/2016/02/25/shot-show-2016-update-brocock-compatto/ (http://www.airgunsarp.com/2016/02/25/shot-show-2016-update-brocock-compatto/)
(http://www.airgunsarp.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/compatto-200x200-150x150.jpg)
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Thanks for the info Sam it sounds like a good gun. I wonder how quiet it is with the shrouded version if it's anything like my Marauder that would be good.
Does anyone know more info on the Brocock Compatto anyone own one? It does look interesting just not as popular as some others it seems.
Scott Si Pettiway on vermin hunters tv has a couple videos of a review and more shooting of the compatto. He was very impressed with it but I dont know what the differences are for the UK sub 12 fpe version and the FAC version other than power. Its worth a look at the vids he has some good info and shooting in it.
I might as well just put the link for the video in ;D
www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNCkterQ6YM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNCkterQ6YM#)
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Lol that sounds like fun to me! The only real fault I've heard about the Sumatra is the fill probe but sounds like it can easily be replaced with a different one.
It's a 60 seconds Job, unscrew the unit and screw in the Foster that Pyramyd sells,..no need to take the air out.
as simple as that :)
My new Sumatra came with the Foster fitting already on it, I called after I ordered to order a fitting and they said they are now coming with the foster already installed new!
William
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Thats a hard vote to cast, depending on the shooters preference those are all good for the money under $1000, but I cast my vote on the Sumatra 2500 due to power, accuracy and price, as well as you can adjust the power very easily to fit the ammo and your shooting requirements.
William
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It's funny you mentioned that Leland just got done watching one of his videos on it! The accuracy was off the charts as I'm sure you saw one hole the size of the .177 pellet at 33 yards and dime size or better at 45 yards wow. Like you said that was with the UK version and not the FAC version that we would get. I wouldn't think the accuracy would be worse with our version but you never know that's why I would like to hear from someone that actually owns one in the states.
Tony that doesn't inspire confidence! I'll check out your review.
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Thank you William that's good to hear! The Sumatra is high on my list a lot of bang for your buck with that gun and I like saving money 😁
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Honestly, even with the power issue, I was really impressed with it. Once the owner gets things straightened out, he'll have me out to do shoot some strings. It was still shooting around 18fpe and I'd put it up there precision wise with a Wildcat for certain. I'm still seriously considering one for a combination HFT/Hunting rig.
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Having shot or owned most of the guns on the list I would have no problem buying another Brocock Contour.
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Having shot or owned most of the guns on the list I would have no problem buying another Brocock Contour.
Very interesting. The reason I didn't like the Contour as much was because of the lack of power under 20fpe I believe. Which guns in the list haven't you shot?
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One thing about the Sumatra, other guns might be more accurate with a given pellet but no gun is as accurate across the board with all pellets, with the Sumatra you can shoot just about everything well.
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I read somewhere on line yesterday that Brocock was shutting down. If that's true, then I'd expect price drops pretty soon, which would be a 'pro'. If it is true, then getting parts in the future would not be much fun which would be a 'con'.
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I read somewhere on line yesterday that Brocock was shutting down. If that's true, then I'd expect price drops pretty soon, which would be a 'pro'. If it is true, then getting parts in the future would not be much fun which would be a 'con'.
I read the same thing, but a think Brocock is the sibling of Daystate. In that case there should be no problem getting parts. Brocock has a large following across the pond. :)
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I read somewhere on line yesterday that Brocock was shutting down. If that's true, then I'd expect price drops pretty soon, which would be a 'pro'. If it is true, then getting parts in the future would not be much fun which would be a 'con'.
Got any links or a source for that? I know in speaking with Tony Belas from Daystate at SHOT, that they were very excited about the future of Brocock.
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Well, I've searched my history on this machine. Maybe I saw it somewhere on the pc at home but try as I might I can't find it on this one at work. Not to say that some of the threads I was reading yesterday on other forums haven't been deleted today. :( I'll check on the home machine but I was having this conversation with someone here in pm's and they saw it too. I'll check with them.
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Well, I've searched my history on this machine. Maybe I saw it somewhere on the pc at home but try as I might I can't find it on this one at work. Not to say that some of the threads I was reading yesterday on other forums haven't been deleted today. :( I'll check on the home machine but I was having this conversation with someone here in pm's and they saw it too. I'll check with them.
Thanks. I know they are at IWA 2016, and recently announced new partnerships with an importer in Spain, so I'm really curious as to what is going on.
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Oh, it wasn't a pm, it was the post above yours asking me where! Maybe Jesse will come along and help us out. I am having a pm discussion about the Compatto though. It's a very attractive item.
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Great review Tony! I posted that Brocock was being phased out several posts ago on this very thread! I was told that by a guy I talked to over the phone at AOA. I can't confirm its true I just took his word for it so maybe you heard it from me but if you heard it elsewhere then maybe it's true.
My only concern is with the build quality of the Sumatra is it good or average? Forgive me but how well made are Korean guns? How is the reliability any major problems?
*Update* I don't know guys I'm really liking the BSA R10 it is an absolute beauty and have heard it's extremely accurate plus it's regulated that's hard to beat in my opinion. My only question with it is how loud is it does it compair to a .22 Marauder???
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Not sure if one is more quite than the other. My friend has both I will ask him tomorrow. The .177's rated at 22 fpe with the LDC is longer compared the shrouded .177 rated at 22 fpe. The 22 fpe with the ldc is 48", too long for any airgun IMO. Shrouded is a manageable 44". Your Mrod I think is 44".
The nice thing about HW100's is they have been around for awhile and aftermarket parts are available. Stuff like a quality single shot adapters, HW barrels in different lengths that fit with no machining, LDC's/shrouds and lightweight air tubes. Like I said earlier the magazine system and trigger are some of the best around.
The last guy I saw post said the €945 HW100 cost him under $1000 delivered.
Under "Add to cart" in blue click the link shipping outside the European Union.
Edit: The magazine system is side lever and the mags are nicely machined metal. There are some nice aftermarket side levers handles and triggers.
I spoke with my friend about the sound. The shrouded HW100 is noticeably quieter compared to the one with the LDC. He has an Mrod .177 and he said to his ear the shrouded HW100 sounds about the same.
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Thanks Sam I would definitely go with the shrouded version then it's not much more. I watched a Ted's Holdover video where he reviewed the gun and found the full size HW100 in .177 was shooting to hot. The pellets weren't stable and it was really noticeable at longer range but he adjusted the hammer spring to lower the velocity and fixed the problem. He said he was sure the .22 would be real accurate but didn't have one to test.
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Daystate bought Brocock so I donot see any problems getting parts or guns at all. The brocock can also be modified for more power quite easily.
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Brocock is not going anywhere..
http://www.brocock.co.uk/about-us.html (http://www.brocock.co.uk/about-us.html)
Quote from Brocock website...
"Founded in 1989 in the old gun quarter of Birmingham, Brocock has been a significant player in the UK airgun market for over a quarter of a century, first for their Air Cartridge System (ACS) pistols and later for their PCP air rifles. In March 2014 Brocock was purchased by Dianna Group owners of Italian gun makers Marocchi & Breda; the group is a major force worldwide who have been making guns since 1922. Marocchi also own Daystate, so the acquisition of Brocock was a natural extension of their move into the airgun market. The ability to share information, develop systems and improve processes between group companies enables us to improve quality and reliability bringing benefits our retailer customers and shooters alike.
In order to gain maximum advantage from the synergy between the two brands, the production of Brocock guns moved to the new purpose designed Daystate factory in Staffordshire in September 2014. This latest chapter in the Brocock story bodes well for the future as it is the clearest possible demonstration by Marocchi of their intent to expand. With this in mind, considerable investment has been made available to develop the Brocock brand, make it more widely available to UK shooters and to further expand into overseas markets. Brocock pre charged pneumatic (PCP) airguns combine quality, reliability and accuracy at affordable prices making them available to everyone.
Our range of high quality, lightweight hunting air rifles, carbines and pistols are manufactured using state of the art precision engineering technology, coupled with the traditional skills and experience of a team of time served gunsmiths. The result is an individual and attractive range of guns with a unique set of handling characteristics derived from their balance and light weight, which make them fast handling, nimble and a delight to shoot. Brocock guns are available from good gun shops, to find a stockist near you please visit the dealer locator section of our web site here"
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So does Diana own Daystate? In a Shot Show video from this year the gentleman working the Daystate/BroCock booth said Diana purchased BroCock fairly recently.
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They are all one in the same that you mentioned I believe, but I am not sure who is the actual parent company now, they buy and sell each other so much you cant keep track of it!!!! I do remember seeing the Video you mentioned but dont remember who owns who!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mJqOiQHa4g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mJqOiQHa4g)
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The SUMATRA carbine gets my vote and, as some others in the know have suggested, the 25 cal would be the way to go. You might not be thinking larger game now but, chances are you will want to take larger game later. I don't have any experience with the other rifles you're interested in but, I'm convinced that once you try the SUMATRA, you're search will be over...just ask any SUMATRA carbine owner:)
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I own A 177 bsa scorpion its a dream to shoot very fast for a 177 1050 to 1070 with 8.44 jsb and cah go hole to hole at 25 yards all stock with xtx air shroud quiet as a mouse get 50 shots from fill up
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Finally a vote for the Scorpion! I love the look and size of that gun the thing I don't like is I would either have to add an LDC which would add length or a shroud which is gonna be expensive so in that case why not go with a R10 they are supposed to be quiet to begin with.
No doubt Darrell the Sumatra looks like a fine gun. I love the lever action, power adjustment, size and looks it's got a lot going for it. Plus it's cheaper than almost all on the list so I would be saving some coin for sure.
I've really narrowed down my selection to these factors in order of importance:
- Size (carbine size preferred and a regular length gun with an LDC at the end is not even considered)
- Loudness (this is in relation to the size of the gun if I need an LDC for say a S500 or R10 to get it neighborhood friendly that is not what I'm looking for)
- Looks (in the eye of the beholder but I think we can all agree the AA S500 & BSA R10 are tops on that list)
- Accuracy (I think this goes without saying and I'm sure all the guns in the vote are plenty accurate but the more the better) This is the least important to me out of the things I listed as I'm sure any of the guns listed are accurate enough.
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Finally a vote for the Scorpion! I love the look and size of that gun the thing I don't like is I would either have to add an LDC which would add length or a shroud which is gonna be expensive so in that case why not go with a R10 they are supposed to be quiet to begin with.
No doubt Darrell the Sumatra looks like a fine gun. I love the lever action, power adjustment, size and looks it's got a lot going for it. Plus it's cheaper than almost all on the list so I would be saving some coin for sure.
I've really narrowed down my selection to these factors in order of importance:
- Size (carbine size preferred and a regular length gun with an LDC at the end is not even considered)
- Loudness (this is in relation to the size of the gun if I need an LDC for say a S500 or R10 to get it neighborhood friendly that is not what I'm looking for)
- Looks (in the eye of the beholder but I think we can all agree the AA S500 & BSA R10 are tops on that list)
- Accuracy (I think this goes without saying and I'm sure all the guns in the vote are plenty accurate but the more the better) This is the least important to me out of the things I listed as I'm sure any of the guns listed are accurate enough.
My S510 carbine in .22 at medium power is pretty quiet with just the shroud. I have mine regulated to give me 840 fps with 18 gr. JSB and I made an LDC to screw into the shroud and at that power level the only pcp I have owned that was on the same noise level is my S10 .177 with my custom shroud tuned to 10.6 fpe. They are both very quiet and my S510 might even be quiter. The total length of my S510 with the ldc is less than 44".
So I would think an S5xx carbine in .177 would be pretty quiet just shrouded and set for 14 - 18 fpe. they look good with the ldc attached and you can always remove it if you needed the shorter length but not the extra noise reduction. Not trying to push you into an AA S5xx carbine but I really enjoy mine and its about the perfect setup that can do it all with power adjustment, extremely short and light weight, great trigger and excellent accuracy. I also really like the sumatra carbine.
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My Marauder is 42" long and I'm looking at something shorter. What I cannot believe is how a $500 Marauder has better features than guns more than twice the cost. Tell me how a $500 Marauder has a better shroud in it than an Air Arms as well as most other high end guns I don't get it. Another thing I cannot comprehend is the Marauder has a magazine that does two things that most $1,000+ guns don't have and that's a shot indicator that lets you know exactly how many shots are left and also has a mag stop that doesn't allow you to fire on an empty mag. When you pay hundreds if not thousands more you expect these things as standard which sadly is not the case. You really do get a ton of gun for the money with the Marauder I'm glad I got it.
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My Marauder is 42" long and I'm looking at something shorter. What I cannot believe is how a $500 Marauder has better features than guns more than twice the cost. Tell me how a $500 Marauder has a better shroud in it than an Air Arms as well as most other high end guns I don't get it. Another thing I cannot comprehend is the Marauder has a magazine that does two things that most $1,000+ guns don't have and that's a shot indicator that lets you know exactly how many shots are left and also has a mag stop that doesn't allow you to fire on an empty mag. When you pay hundreds if not thousands more you expect these things as standard which sadly is not the case. You really do get a ton of gun for the money with the Marauder I'm glad I got it.
the Maurader has a longer shroud and I think it might be slightly larger in diameter than the AA shroud also. The AA carbine is only 37" long without an additional ldc and the same length as my Marauder with the ldc and with the ldc on its as quiet as anything you will shoot. Depending on how quiet you need the factory shroud works good and is very good if you are not shooting at max. As far as the mag goes the Marauder has such a good mag because they stole the design um I mean copied the mag design of the Theoben. The new AA mags have an indicator to tell you when you are on the last shot. But you are correct the Marauder does have good features but the one thing you cannot get away from is that in order to be very quiet you have to add length to any pcp to achieve it. Some pcp designs allow you to keep that length to a minimum like the BSA rifles that have enough room to add a large diameter shroud. But you still have to add length past the barrel to get it done. the only way to remain very short and stay extremely quiet would be using a bullpup or a rifle with a short barrel like the Talon ss and BSA ultra.
The Sumatra carbine is only 1.5" shorter than the S5xx carbine and it has no shroud so by the time you add an ldc its going to be as long as a Marauder. Theres no free lunch when you want to control noise.
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I have no idea why the Marauder isnt on the above list if it was Im sure it would have the most hits.
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The OP has a .22 Marauder and was looking to see if there were better alternatives at double the cost of a Marauder basically.
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Got Ya my bad. Id go .25 Mrod tuned down to 800 FPS with SSG and barrel band and call it done. I know he said no .25 but detuned it will perform very very well and be almost silent.
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The OP has a .22 Marauder and was looking to see if there were better alternatives at double the cost of a Marauder basically.
He also is looking for a rifle thats shorter than the Mrod
- Weight/Length (smaller the better for me aka carbine but not a must)
You could always put a bullpup kit on an Mrod.
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Leland,
I forgot that part, "Weight/Length"
Sorry,
Taso
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Good point LDP seems the only way to keep a carbine quiet is to extend it with an LDC which kind of defeats the purpose. Also with super short carbines like the Brocock & BSA Ultra you sacrifice power and possibly accuracy. That's why the Scorpion with a custom shrouded barrel really interests me but at the current price of the beach stock that would put it up near the $1,000 mark if not more.
Taso you are correct already got one looking for something different.
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Good point LDP seems the only way to keep a carbine quiet is to extend it with an LDC which kind of defeats the purpose. Also with super short carbines like the Brocock & BSA Ultra you sacrifice power and possibly accuracy. That's why the Scorpion with a custom shrouded barrel really interests me but at the current price of the beach stock that would put it up near the $1,000 mark if not more.
Taso you are correct already got one looking for something different.
Scott with as many options out there it seems like there is always one piece of the puzzle missing ;D If you wanted 13 fpe or less it would be simple to find what you are looking for. Its the FAC power that creates the big challenge of having a combination of power, short length and quiet.
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The only way to have a powerful, quiet and short gun is the BullPup option.
If you take away one variable to the equation options open up, but if you set on all 3 than you better look into Pups.
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I think the Air Force Condor SS .25 would fit that requirement as well. It would just shorten your max hunting distance.
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Excellent point guys. A bullpup makes a lot of sense for what I'm looking for. I've been doing quite a bit of research on bullpups and the Wildcat looks legit but has a few minor problems that need to be sorted out. Don't care for the look of the Cricket but that Vulcan looks like a pure beast of a gun that's got superior accuracy. Haven't looked at the Edguns to much but they look nice. Unfortunately they are all above my price range will have to save up some more to get one of those.
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Excellent point guys. A bullpup makes a lot of sense for what I'm looking for. I've been doing quite a bit of research on bullpups and the Wildcat looks legit but has a few minor problems that need to be sorted out. Don't care for the look of the Cricket but that Vulcan looks like a pure beast of a gun that's got superior accuracy. Haven't looked at the Edguns to much but they look nice. Unfortunately they are all above my price range will have to save up some more to get one of those.
Or buy a used Mrod and put the pup kit on it. You already know you like them and it would keep you under $1,000 maybe even under $800.
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I think the Air Force Condor SS .25 would fit that requirement as well. It would just shorten your max hunting distance.
Too loud from what I've heard.
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Or buy a used Mrod and put the pup kit on it. You already know you like them and it would keep you under $1,000 maybe even under $800.
Again I'm not really looking for a used gun and even though it's a bullpup it's still a Marauder at heart.
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The only way to have a powerful, quiet and short gun is the BullPup option.
If you take away one variable to the equation options open up, but if you set on all 3 than you better look into Pups.
yep .... and this is the one I just bought ...quiet /power full/shorter even though it's on the heavy side for a pup the Gladius long feel's way lighter than my Mrod .25 when you shoulder them .... this Gladius .25 is shooting on par with my Mrod .25 shooting with in a dime size at 50 ... and if I really do my part hole in a hole ... 16 shots in the high 800's with .25.39 kings right out of the box no adjusting or even barrel clean ...$836 shipped ! gun case included ... I liked that part ...saved on buying another boyt case
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That's awesome Dan! I did not know those were so accurate. One thing I have noticed with a lot of bullpups especially .25 cal or higher is the length of them I don't think they are really true bullpups and more of a hybrid. If you look at any Vulcan or the .22 Wildcat I believe you see more of a true bullpup because of how compact they are. However look at the .25 cal Wildcat and you'll see it's actually quite a bit longer/bigger than the .22 model and now your at or near the length of a regular rifle which kinda defeats the purpose of buying one in the first place unless you just like the looks of pups in general.
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That's awesome Dan! I did not know those were so accurate. One thing I have noticed with a lot of bullpups especially .25 cal or higher is the length of them I don't think they are really true bullpups and more of a hybrid. If you look at any Vulcan or the .22 Wildcat I believe you see more of a true bullpup because of how compact they are. However look at the .25 cal Wildcat and you'll see it's actually quite a bit longer/bigger than the .22 model and now your at or near the length of a regular rifle which kinda defeats the purpose of buying one in the first place unless you just like the looks of pups in general.
what I noticed was the weight being moved back with the action at the shoulder center's most of the weight closer to the body ... making the gun feel way lighter ... you don't have the longer weight distance from your body so there is way less leverage pulling on you.....so even if the .25 long 23 barrel in the Gladius is 37 in ......air arms Galahad bullpup 35.5 in -short barrel 19 in ... compare to the Mrod gen 1 ...with light blaster stock is around 43 in....
my Mrod is lighter than the Gladius long ... but the gladius has better balance and lighter pull on the body .... air arms carbines are about 37in.. barrel 19in .. so the Gladius long's advantage over the carbine would be longer barrel 23in vs 19in - 16in in most all brand carbines ..... the feel of these guns are pretty close due to the mass weight being moved close to the shoulder on the gladius .... even though the carbine is lighter ... Sumatra carbine is short and very light cool gun ....the 16in barrel would be the disadvantage vs long barrel bullpup ....
so basically you get the feel of a lighter carbine with the longer 23in barrel bullpup ...and the hatsan/fx bullpup guns have the cocking lever moved forward .... and that makes it very nice so you do not have to stop and reach back to cock the gun .... you are instead in a very rapid fire mod staying in the perfect aiming/shooting position ......this is how it shakes out to me ....
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That makes sense for sure I've heard that from other people as well. I notice you get a lot of bang for your buck with that gun a lot like the MRod.