GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: Booger on February 23, 2016, 08:25:59 PM
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I got to thinking about some threads around here. Is the TX200MK3 or HW97K worth 2X as much s D34? I guess it comes down to who you ask. :) I have shot both and I found the D34 can be just as accurate as either. The stock and comfort does beat the 34, but then again why do you shoot? I shoot to hit a target, but I do enjoy the comfort and beauty a rifle has to offer. Is a Hatsan Galatian worth 1.5X than the price of a MROD? Again the same answer as above. Now I must admit this is my opinion and mine only. I have heard of Air Hawk that can be made to shoot as well as a D34, so when people ask what would you suggest it is hard to say. Most people ask what is your intended use, but it should also go on to say what do you want? Do you want something that is accurate for your intended purpose, or do you want something that every time you see her you want to caress her. You should also consider if they are new to the hobby, because it just is not for everyone. Sometimes new shooters must take baby steps and find out if they are really meant for the sport, and other times once they are hooked they need to decide what they really want and save for it instead of throwing money hand over fist and ending up like the rest of us junkies. Sometimes I think drugs are cheaper than this hobby. LOL
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I have to agree with most of what you are saying. But for the younger or any member I wouldn't think using drugs as a cheaper hobby.
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I have to agree with most of what you are saying. But for the younger or any member I wouldn't think using drugs as a cheaper hobby.
Not in the long run, anyway.
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In the short term drugs MAY be cheaper than than airgunning. In the long term the drug habit will far outweigh the price of the hobby - both in health and in wealth. I don't think an airgun user will kill himself as a drug user will. All in all it's a poor comparison and probably inappropriate for this venue.
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It was meant as a tongue in cheek comparison, just to say this hobby can get expensive. I guess I should have said you might have to take out a second mortgage.
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I know people, still alive, that have been 'drug users' for 50 years!
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Is the TX200MK3 or HW97K worth 2X as much s D34?
In one word? I don't think I can do that in one word. If you want to pay for finish, maybe. If you are trying to buy accuracy only, probably not. There are a hand full of really superb springers on the market today. The D34 is one of them. Most of the others cost more, so you have to ask yourself if the extra you pay is worth it. If I were to attempt to replace my Diana Model 36 I'd be looking at Walther rifles.
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The real question is what is the real question ;D
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The real question is what is the real question ;D
I got to thinking about some threads around here. Is the TX200MK3 or HW97K worth 2X as much s D34? I guess it comes down to who you ask. :) I have shot both and I found the D34 can be just as accurate as either. The stock and comfort does beat the 34, but then again why do you shoot? I shoot to hit a target, but I do enjoy the comfort and beauty a rifle has to offer. Is a Hatsan Galatian worth 1.5X than the price of a MROD?
Most people ask what is your intended use, but it should also go on to say what do you want? Do you want something that is accurate for your intended purpose, or do you want something that every time you see her you want to caress her. You should also consider if they are new to the hobby, because it just is not for everyone.
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If the breech leade was more conducive to proper/flush pellet loading by hand, my main gripe about the 34 would be gone.
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I have both Tx200 22cal PG2 tuned and {2} D34s, the 177 has a PG2 soft tune , the 22cal has a PG2HO kit. Both my 34s will shoot every bit as good as my TX. My TX does have a better trigger, and the walnut is soooo nice. I think my 34s are easier to shoot, not as hold sensitive. JMO. Also my 34s don't seem to be as pellet picky. I just ordered more ammo to test in my TX, it has never shot as good as my 34s at 45+yds. I do like showing people the TX and having them look at me like, are you nuts? you spent that on an AG?
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I have both Tx200 22cal PG2 tuned and {2} D34s, the 177 has a PG2 soft tune , the 22cal has a PG2HO kit. Both my 34s will shoot every bit as good as my TX. My TX does have a better trigger, and the walnut is soooo nice. I think my 34s are easier to shoot, not as hold sensitive. JMO. Also my 34s don't seem to be as pellet picky. I just ordered more ammo to test in my TX, it has never shot as good as my 34s at 45+yds. I do like showing people the TX and having them look at me like, are you nuts? you spent that on an AG?
LOL I just bought a Daystate MK4 SI, just think of how they would look at me. :)
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Hey Booger, I would just look at you with envy my friend. Nice gun.
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I don't know if it's fair to put the question as simply as is one rifle worth two times that of another. Sometimes to get an small improvement in accuracy, for example, the cost rises in a ratio that does not equal the "rise" in accuracy. What I mean is that to get a, say, 10% improvement in accuracy, it might be necessary to spend considerably more than 10% more on the rifle. BR .22LR shooters may have to spend a thousand and more to achieve a seemingly modest improvement in accuracy because that's what it costs to get to the next level.
I think it was on GTA that I read an analogy about what it costs to improve a racing bicycle, to make it "better" and lighter. For every incremental improvement in the bike, the increase in price was not linear; it is almost exponential. In short, it's necessary to spend a lot more to get noticeable improvements over something that is already pretty good.
In that sense, perhaps the TX or the HW is twice the cost of a D34 because it their improvements are not obtained inexpensively. A better barrel is more expensive as is a superior stock, among other things. Additionally, it should be kept in mind that the TX200 and the HW 97, 98, and 77 are all among the best spring piston air rifles that can be bought today by anyone who has the money. No special ordering, no special waiting list. Shooters, like many people who are serious about their hobbies, are often willing to pay top dollar for the "best there is". As a result there is always a demand for the best and this allows prices to reflect demand. To get a springer that is significantly better, customization is necessary and even more costly.
The above is in no way to cast aspersions on the D34, which is a very good rifle for the money.
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Nicely put grauhanen.
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I don't know if it's fair to put the question as simply as is one rifle worth two times that of another. Sometimes to get an small improvement in accuracy, for example, the cost rises in a ratio that does not equal the "rise" in accuracy. What I mean is that to get a, say, 10% improvement in accuracy, it might be necessary to spend considerably more than 10% more on the rifle. BR .22LR shooters may have to spend a thousand and more to achieve a seemingly modest improvement in accuracy because that's what it costs to get to the next level.
I think it was on GTA that I read an analogy about what it costs to improve a racing bicycle, to make it "better" and lighter. For every incremental improvement in the bike, the increase in price was not linear; it is almost exponential. In short, it's necessary to spend a lot more to get noticeable improvements over something that is already pretty good.
In that sense, perhaps the TX or the HW is twice the cost of a D34 because it their improvements are not obtained inexpensively. A better barrel is more expensive as is a superior stock, among other things. Additionally, it should be kept in mind that the TX200 and the HW 97, 98, and 77 are all among the best spring piston air rifles that can be bought today by anyone who has the money. No special ordering, no special waiting list. Shooters, like many people who are serious about their hobbies, are often willing to pay top dollar for the "best there is". As a result there is always a demand for the best and this allows prices to reflect demand. To get a springer that is significantly better, customization is necessary and even more costly.
The above is in no way to cast aspersions on the D34, which is a very good rifle for the money.
Yet someone skilled and knowledgeable can turn both into equals perhaps with the same level of attention. One could write a book on the subject (which was why I hinted how you approach the question had a lot to do with the answer...).
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Booger, I think you hit it in the simple words as "why do you shoot". I do have a TX and love that gun, but probably shoot it less often than any of my others. I too, shoot to hit the target, but hitting the target is just part of this addiction. For me, the TX is boring, it's to easy to hit the target. On the other hand my new untuned D48 has problems, minor ones, but when I shoot it, it is fun, I fight it, but the potential is there for some banging accuracy. Getting to the source of those problems is just as much fun if not more. I also love shooting a cheap Shadow 1000, it's like an extension of my arm, and is the definition of hunter accurate. I think those new to the hobby can get to caught up in the proverbial one hole group at 20 yards click. Heck, I never shoot at 20 yards, to me what's the point. But I digress, newer shooters don't have the experiences we that have shoot for years have, some think they can buy it, others think they can tune it, and still others think it is the gun or scope that matters. In reality hitting the target is a much deeper extension of all the experiences we have had in the pursuit of our passion. To me some of the most important things in accuracy is confidence, practice, and the pure enjoyment of what you are doing. A sparking new pro tuned Pro Sport doesn't automatically give you those things, you earn them. So my advice, if it matters, is to buy a gun you can easily, and I do mean easily afford. Shoot the be Jesus out it, and if your not having fun, then put it away for a while and come back to it later. This is supposed to be fun right? You know one thing that really gets me off, is to take a cheap gun and shoot rings around someone who has tried to pay for the best. Now don't get me wrong, I would never gloat outwardly, but inside, yea I do, time invested gives me that right. But, what do you tell people like that? Just shoot it dude, it will all come together for you in time, naw, they will just go out and buy a new scope or get a new spring kit, whatever. Those with true passion, find a way that usually involves more sweat than bucks, and that's what makes those experiences that give you the confidence to attempt to master this pursuit. I could go on and on, and sorry to be so winded, but you hit a nerve here, and I just wish some of these new shooters would just learn to shoot and have fun with what they have, learn from the old pros here, and work your way into this passion over a lifetime of fun in it's pursuit.