Lothar Walther Barrels

[YEMX]

Gotcha... I might just have to pick up a .177 to see if it'll work with my 13xx/2100 hybrid!!

[cooter472]

I have a Hunter 220 that I would like to remove the old Gamo barrel out of the break barrel breech and install one of these. Is this doable or do have have to get a new gamo breech and barrel.

[tkerrigan]

I couldn't help myself either, ordered 4 12MM and 2 14MM in .22 this morning.  They have shipped already.  Regards, Tom

[michaelthomas]

If anyone would like any new full length LW blanks.....I will be putting in an order by Monday.  Usually takes me 1 1/2 -2 weeks to get them if they are in stock.  The 16mm choked barrels up to .25 Caliber are 130.00 shipped.

Pm me if interested.

Mike

[nervoustrigger]

I received a couple of the 19" .177 barrels today and one of the 15" .22 barrels.  The rifling on both types is sharp and distinct and the crowns look great.  As seen in the photos on Precision Airguns' web site, the breech ends are turned down in multiple steps but there is no leade and no barrel port so my assumption is they were made for springer rifles.  No biggie, I'll be modifying mine for PCP rifles.

I pushed a few pellets through each and it was apparent they are choked, and I figured I'd share the pellet closeups with you guys:

[Bwalton]

um I like the look of the JSB 18.13gr the other pellets I think would need a lube job, seems to tight and will foul the barrel much faster...

[nervoustrigger]

Agreed, getting them through the choke took serious pressure.  Both Crosman calibers measure on the large side, which along with the harder alloy, makes them really tough to get through the barrels.

The pros say choked barrels aren't the best for long range accuracy, but of course make them much less pellet fussy for modest ranges.  I enjoy the longer range stuff so I'm prepared to remove the choke if it doesn't deliver at a distance.  Doing so with a full price LW barrel would be preceded by much hand wringing but I don't have the slightest reservation at this price.

[YEMX]

NervousTrigger, what is the O.D. of the breech end on your .177 barrels?

[3 at 8]

Those pictures say a lot, Thanks for taking the time Nervoustrigger.

[nervoustrigger]

No problem, I'm glad to hear the info is useful.

About the dimensions of the breech end of the .177 barrel, I'll have to get back to you tonight.  All I can tell you at the moment is it is stepped down twice.

[michaelthomas]

Hi Jason,

I get to shoot a ton of LW barrels......and many others.  The LW's have a relatively loose bore and utilize a choke to get the barrel down to the right size at the end.  They are intentionally made this way to take advantage of the choke.  I have never seen a LW barrel shoot worth a darn at 25m without a choke....and I think it's safe to say that accuracy will not improve with increased distance.

The barrels that others are referring to that are not choked have internal dimensions similar to the LW at the choked area.....meaning they are tight all the way down the tube, so they don't need the extra squeeze at the end.  Those others are usually taper lapped so they have 2-3 tenths of squeeze from breech to muzzle just to maintain a seal on the pellet as it passes through.

I have extensively shot Liljas, Benchmarks, Channelyn's, Kriegers, and every other highly touted, taper lapped custom made barrel in 25m benchrest.  The thing they all have in common is that they will shoot one hole groups for 3-8 shots.....then the POI will change (sometimes dramatically) and they will start the process over.  They may come back to their original hole at some time and hang around there for a bit, but they do a lot of wandering.  The better shooting ones keep this wander to a minimum.  They might be the 5 shot kings.....but they are not the long term winners.

Choked LW barrels can go a lot longer without drifting around for me.  The national benchrest records have been dominated by choked LW barrels.  Nothing else is even close in terms of frequency.  I know the guys who have a few of the records shot by taper lapped barrels, and they have confessed that when they shot their record it was by the skin of their teeth that the gun went the distance without leading up.

As for unchoked barrels shooting better over longer distances.....I think that perception probably has to do with lack of data due to way less players being in that game right now.  The best shooting guns in the world are benchrest guns.  25m is the world wide standard with very few exceptions.  Longer distance air rifle benchrest has just started to take place, and the guys that are always at the top of 25m.....haven't taken it too seriously, yet.  That may change over time, but right now the Extreme Benchrest and events like that are mostly populated by local guys shooting stock rifles.  Timmy Mac turned the tables  this year and showed what a seasoned benchrest shooter could do.  In terms of experience.....he's probably shot more benchrest targets than most of the the other contestants combined. 

Any of my bench guns with a choked LW can shoot sub .200" 5 shot groups at 55 yards with regularity in calm conditions.  Once the wind picks up.....it's all up to the shooter.  Never shot at a paper target further than that. 

Just some food for thought.

Mike

[nervoustrigger]

Hi Michael,

Outstanding information and perspective you just shared, thanks so much!  I was not aware that the LW bores were on the loose side.  It was not evident by the force required to insert and push the pellets last night.  Based on what you said, I'll definitely want  to insert some just a short distance and back them out and inspect before I consider lopping off the choke.

At one time I was under the impression that distinct rifling marks on the head were a good sign, until noticing that the best pellets in a couple of rifles emerged from the barrel with just the slightest kiss marks on the head perimeter.  One of those is a stock QB barrel that routinely deposits JSB lead into the gray matter of squirrels at 60 - 70 yards.  I reasoned that as long as the head is just snug enough against the rifling that it does not yaw as it hurtles down the pipe, its aerodynamics are best for long range stabilty.  Said differently, deep rifling marks on the head disrupt aerodynamics and stability.

The way spiraling and keyholing and other "instability indicators" often show up only somewhere down range (say, beyond 40 - 50 yards), makes me a little suspicious of the deep rifling marks left by a choked barrel.  I would certainly test and retest before chopping off the choke of a heralded brand like LW, just wanted to clarify my thinking based on those observations.

With your immense experience, I surely would appreciate your perspective.

[Bwalton]

Indeed good info, and confirms my thought on choked barrels, Jason the JSB pellets look great, I think that they will do very well, but keep us posted on your findings, and Mike sub .200@ 55 is outstanding, My goal is inside an inch at 100yards and things are looking good. Right now im .450ctc @ 70 just 30 to go, I was not using a bench jst a field pod, for the 100 I have to go set the gun on the bench to see exactly what she does.

[michaelthomas]

Jason.....let us know how it goes. 

As a side note.....one afternoon after shooting benchrest, we took two guns over to the adjacent field that is full of prairie dogs.  We had shooting sticks, chairs, and a laser range finder.  With the angle of the sun, we could see a lot of our shots all the way to the target and noticed no spiraling with the JSB 18.1's and a LW choked .22 out to 160m.  Lots of prairie dogs lost their lives, that day.  The longest 2 were at the 160m mentioned.....and it took about 5 shots to find the range.....then two in a row to take them out.  They were on different mounds about 30 feet away from each other.....lol.  This was just a 36x bench scope without mildots.

Baxter,

Your location puts you in the same town as one of the best benchrest venues in the country.  Open Grove in Oxnard.  Joe has 10 concrete benches under full cover with target boxes at 25 and 50m.....even lights for daytime like night conditions.  There is a lot more range beyond that for setting up your own target.  You should stop over there sometime.  You won't find a better bunch of people, and maybe you'll get the benchrest bug.  The 2015 USARB Benchrest nationals will be there later this year.  I just got back from there a few weeks ago for practice, and will certainly be coming out again soon.  When I do, I'll drop you a PM and maybe we can meet and do some shooting.

Mike

[Bwalton]

Awe Jason that would be awesome! yes let me know...I never even knew that there was a place like that here you have an address for the place?  man that would save me and Nappyman a lot of driving  just to sight in

[Bwalton]

never mind I got it a big WOW!
4101 Santa Clara Ave
Oxnard‎ CA‎ 93036
805-444-8521

[michaelthomas]

Baxter,

The range is on a personal residence.  It's called Open Grove Air Rifle.

http://www.usairriflebenchrest.com/

Scroll down to Affiliated Clubs......then find Open Grove from the list.....you should see contact info from there.

Mike

[michaelthomas]

There you go.

Mike

[michaelthomas]

Joe Friedrich (owner of Open Grove) is probably the nicest and most talented guy you could want to meet in Benchrest.....rimfire, centerfire, and air rifle.  He could be described as the sort of guy that would give you the shirt off his back....then apologize if it's not your favorite color.

Mike

[Bwalton]

I sent him an email letting him know exactly who I am and my background, Man being local I have to start looking for a bench rest gun That will improve my skills even more