pig hunters (Manny ?) please give your thoughts

[ancient1one]

Ok, Ron misjudged the bone thickness and density admitted his error and posted his mistake so that others could learn and better shot placement with a more powerful AG would have done the intended job effectively. More positive input rather than judgement and criticism  is a more helpful approach rather than reproach and judgement

I agree 100%. Ron did the right thing posting his thoughts and questions. GTA is a great place to ask and learn about air guns. When someone gives bad or wrong advice it defeats the purpose.

[Bullfrog]

I have no problem with what he done. He tried something, it didn't work, and he analyzed the situation to figure out why it didn't work. That's how good hunters learn.

As a side note, I don't believe the knife is any more ethical than any other technique. I've had to slit the throats of deer before and its terrible to watch them bleed out. I don't know whether they feel pain or not when it happens, but I can clearly see the terror in their eyes during the process. The worst part is watching them breath and gurgle blood through their neck for a long time before they die. The knife is always my last resort.

[Nomadic Pirate]

+ 1 Travis

[Mod90]

+2 Travis.

But for me,  I honestly prefer to avoid the blade. I prefer to opt for a quick double tap if the first shot didn't do enough of a job at dispatching my quarry, provided I can get a chance to. If a frontal shot didn't work effectively, I'll take a profile shot for the follow up. If the profile was the first shot & it didn't work, second profile shot at closer range and with better placement would be in order, & if that didn't do it, then a heart shot. If after all that the critter is still struggling, THEN I'll bring out the bowie

[Willydog]

Pigs have some heavy bones, even the chest has a hard plate to protect the heart. My Dad always told me that if you didn't shoot a pig in the right spot with a 22LR, it wouldn't go down. I doubt an air rifle is much different.

He diagramed it for me once, but it was a few years ago, something about drawing a couple of imaginary lines across the head and placing the bullet where the lines intersected.

Of course, jumping up to a 38 or 9mm would solve that problem too.

[DOKF]

When I was young on the farm raising 4H livestock, it was my job to help elimination the chickens every fall.  I would hang them upside down by their feet in a row of catches, and my dad would follow along behind to slit their throats.  The chickens flopped around quite a bit as they bled out, but I was too busy hanging up live chickens and taking down the dead ones to pay much attention to how quickly the chickens actually went down.

I don't know that this would be considered ethical or humane today, but it made for the best tasting chicken.  Dad swore by the slit throat technique for all the livestock (from rabbits to cattle), with and without an initial head blow.  My dad was a fur trapper during the depression, and gave up all powder burners after that, so none were available to us when I was growing up.

[topwaterjim]

Thank you for posting. I agree with the last few posts. You tried to put it down ethically and it worked the first time on the younger hog. But you have a great learning thread here. Manny says "side between eye and ear". I think this is a great example of a post we all can learn from. Thank you . If a mistake was made it was an honest one. Don't listen to the negative stuff...Jim..

[topwaterjim]

I do gotta say if he was wearing the Gta hat your going  to have a lot of us mad at you :ojk couldn't help it with your profile pic.

[ancient1one]

 

Thank you for posting. I agree with the last few posts. You tried to put it down ethically and it worked the first time on the younger hog. But you have a great learning thread here. Manny says "side between eye and ear". I think this is a great example of a post we all can learn from. Thank you . If a mistake was made it was an honest one. Don't listen to the negative stuff...Jim..

There are many ways to put a pig down ethically. A .22 Beeman RS2 air gun is not consistent enough to be considered one of them. No matter where the pellet is placed.

[StevenG]

Sometimes a negative response is the right one. Somethings just should not be tried. Same reason we all responded the way we did to the Gamo pig video.

Now that you have these skulls, any thought to testing out more suitable implements? Maybe see how the FDPCP or Maurader do when turned up as high as they go?

[Nomadic Pirate]

I think the main problem is that Ron (as per his post ) though that his gun was a 40 FPE unit, and that would have done the business.

I don't think those guns are even half that power, and that is what caused the failure.

[Gertrude]

I just used the fpe calculator with the guns rated fps (850) and weight of pellet being used (25gr).
 I figured point blank was about at fast as it gets, and that should have been plenty to do the task. Sure I realize that it would be a little bit slower with a 25gr., but even at 700 fps it still showed over 31 fpe.

 The main factor is, I did not anticipate the skull to be a full 1" thicker than the last pig. None of us who were there did.
 Lesson learned, and will not be repeated.

When I made the original post, I figured there would be some who would not appreciate the intent or reason of my post, and feel compelled to respond to the results of the event, rather than try to offer an explanation to my questions about the rate of skull growth.
 That is fine, as it is often the case on any forum where some are looking more to react to the event, rather than to focus on the subject.
 If I was that worried about what others thought about it, or how they might cast judgement on it, I would have never made the post.
 I did so, to try and find out WHY skull had grown so fast, or to determine if it was a genetics vs. feed, or in this case, probably both.

Thank you to all who offered thoughts... even the negative ones.
Hopefully there is a lesson here for others to learn from.
 I know I sure have, and will not let this unfortunate event happen to me or my animals again. Especially my animals raised for consumption,... but even when pesting, I try to place my shots as effective kill shots, so that even the vermin do not suffer unnecessarily.
 I highly doubt that ANY skilled or ethical hunters will intentionally choose to make an animal suffer, and if I am ever witness to someone doing so, I would certainly not be pleased, and feel compelled to do something about it.
 Even rats deserve to be eliminated quickly.

[ToRmEnToR]

Did You Chrony that rifle with the 25 gr lead? Its around a 17-18 FPE rifle from the factory. I sold one of that clocked 750 FPS over the Chrony with .22 14.3 cphp.. I'm thinking about 570 FPS 'stock' with 25gr lead..

[Gertrude]

Did You Chrony that rifle with the 25 gr lead? Its around a 17-18 FPE rifle from the factory. I sold one of that clocked 750 FPS over the Chrony with .22 14.3 cphp.. I'm thinking about 570 FPS 'stock' with 25gr lead..

No, I did not chrony it with 25gr lead.

It has been chronied in the past with standard cphp's and was running in the 820's - 830's.

I was not my intention to argue the FPE, or justify my poor choice.
 OBVIOUSLY it was not enough to properly do the job.

As I previously said above, I only used a FPE calculator, the guns rated velocity, I figured it would naturally be a bit slower with the heavier pellet, (and I was only guessing at what the speed the 25 might be at).
 I obviously guessed wrong with both the speed, AND with the skull being so much thicker than anyone would have possibly known.

 Especially after seeing how thin the first pigs skull was, the ease of full penetration, and having absolutely no problem delivering a fast kill with more power than was necessary.
   I do not enjoy putting a critter down with an improper kill.

I'm beginning to think this thread may have run it's full course, and nothing more can come from it to be beneficial for the education of others.
 
 I was simply hoping to help others here in making good choices, be ethical shooters/hunters, and use the info I offered up as a learning experience that they might avoid the same mistake.

[454 Big Block Chevy]

the RS2 is roughly 15 FPE.  in .177 it will shoot about 900 FPS with 7.9 and in .22 it will shoot about 750-800 FPS with a 14.3, using a big heavy pellet... 500, 600 FPS is about it.  maybe less.  i know a big heavy pellet in a springer probably isn't healthy for it!

for big pigs, always do a side profile shot as manny says.  there side skulls are thin... top of the head... they call pigs hard headed for a reason!

[Nomadic Pirate]

In the end it was just a honest mistake in Ron's part, he missjudged the power of the rifle by a lot,...we all make mistakes and we learn from them, is when we repeat them that it becomes a problem

[Gertrude]

Thanks Manny

[Tommy]

Good job Ron I will not judge you as it is not my place. Thank you learnin me sumpin
Tom

[ToRmEnToR]

Just to clarify, I'm not knocking you for what choices you made. We ALL live and learn. It takes guts to come out and admit your mistakes, so I'm commending you on that. Heck, I've shot my dang sliding door window out of my living room with an over penetration of my backstop.. I learned from that mistake and that was 22 years ago. Now I have a 10meter range in my basement with 10" thick concrete wall behind an appropriate backstop, lol.. We all live and learn....