Wolf LDC Arrived!

[SpiralGroove]

Lefteyeshot,
We talked about the 135 in .177 only, which can create velocities > 1050 fps.  In this situation, if your shooting above the sound barrier -> you're right "what's the point of a LDC!"  In .22 and .25 the 135 shoots below 1050 fps so theoretically the Wolf LDC could be installed. However, its slight build wouldn't handle the stress very long .

I don't know that much about LDC's, but somebody probably makes one that can the installed and work on a springer?
I'm not sure this helped?  Hey D14Jeff, PM Baxter and see what he thinks - I'm guessing !   

[lefteyeshot]

What I mean is if the pellet or bullet is going down range faster than the speed on sound it's going to crack loud regardless what's on the muzzle.       

[Rocker1]

Sometimes the way the baffles or whatever they use or how they put a LDC together causes air turbulence with the pellet which will cause inaccuracy to the point that you would think it is clipping and it could cause clipping but if you drill out the hole you have defeated the purpose of the LDC.  I have made some that were  quiet but lost fps but were accurate . There is a happy medium on these things, Mr Walton understands them .  Thanks  David

[Bwalton]

David is correct, drilling the hole larger does not fix the problem. The pellet is already traveling inaccurate. A larger hole just helps it to continue on that inaccurate path. The tighter the pellet hole is the better the LDC will work.

[SpiralGroove]

Thanks Baxter and David ,  OK, so clipping just means rendered inaccurate for whatever reason
Leftyeyeshot, I agree

[Bwalton]

Yes....songwriting is causing to path of the pellet not to travel straight, or the LDC itself is not correctly align.

[Shifty99]

Interesting thread can someone explain why an LDC changes the POI.  Is it just like a longer barrel or does it have to do with fps.

[Gatorproof]

I don't feel like I am hijacking your thread since I am talking about your new rifle.
I am pretty sure it was you that decided to refunish your AT44W stock before putting it in action? Yes? No? If yes, all is well. If no, I messed up, sorry.

I remember you posted some photos in progress. I ran across a AT44W refinish that had the same shine and type of layers as yours. It was on the Yellow. A fellow posted it as a dare to anyone who refinished their Mrod. "As a, can you beat this" type of thing".

Apparently the type of wood suggested that Crosman uses is a Sycamore.  That leading to a rather uncompliementary use for said Crosman wood, which didn't correlate with a gun stock. (Tight lipped smile).

Anyhow, I thought I would try to post the pics because they did have a very simular look to the work in pogress you showed us.
The first one is before or the way they come, sort of. The next 2 are the finished products.

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz205/zebrawood_photo/z003.jpg

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz205/zebrawood_photo/Hatsan001.jpg

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz205/zebrawood_photo/Hatsan005.jpg

If I read correctly, the stock master charges $80 to redo to this finish.

Be Well,
Gator

[mista meener]

Baxter: Why you think drilling the LCD larger won't solve the clipping problem?   I assume he means drilling the entire length larger, not just the opening. 
My (.177) Wolf LCD could fit a .25 if centered perfectly and seems to work fine!
I can see this solution may not be best for it's sound quieting abilities, but sholuld help the clipping problem --> Right

Mista Meener:  I plan to regulate my AT44-L to get 50/60 shots at 925/950 fps (JSB 10.34 or CP 10.50).  This way I get more shots at the most accurate velocity, and remain under the "Limbo Stick".

Baxter is right but I had a ldc that sprayed all over the place and now it is not bad. I did drill it out the length of the baffles. but if you are breaking sound barrier I think they are useless.you can hear a rush of noise and a crack by the target. You a4re doing the right thing regulating your rifle at 920-950. unless you have people living on top of you the noise without ldc will be ok. my at 44 goes 870 fps without ldc and I have people 50 ft away and it is ok

[QVTom]

Yes....songwriting is causing to path of the pellet not to travel straight, or the LDC itself is not correctly align.

Axial alignment is everything on a LDC.  Drilling out the ID may improve things some but it does not solve the misalignment.  If the pellet is barely missing one quadrant of the baffle and has lots of room on the opposite side the uneven air flow will destroy the accuracy. 

I run 0.315 on my 30 cal LDC and there is no effect on accuracy or POI.  I started at 0.375 and then the baffle was reduced to .315, the increase in effectiveness was obvious.

Getting an add-on LDC to function properly is no easy feat, there are many places where problems arise.  Barrel/bore concentricity, LDC/barrel fit, set screw canting, poor alignment in the LDC itself, etc..........

One thing for sure.  If you have clipping there is an alignment issue somewhere.  I'd start by fixing the alignment before drilling out the baffles.

Tom

[Bwalton]

Tom has it 100% correct. thats why I make the baffles, both end caps out of one piece, I drill a hole the smallest size first the entire length on a precision lathe. then even after that the OD has the be the exact same as all the parts when fitting inside the LDC tube. Then still I test for POI, FPS, and report. Ez to make one, not ez to make one right.

[SpiralGroove]

Thanks Baxter & Tom,
It seems obvious to me now, the Wolf Airgun LDC is a "riverboat gamble" leading only to frustration.
I will likely return mine to Poland and send my $$ to Baxter
Kirk

[Gatorproof]

Baxter: Why you think drilling the LCD larger won't solve the clipping problem?   I assume he means drilling the entire length larger, not just the opening. 
My (.177) Wolf LCD could fit a .25 if centered perfectly and seems to work fine!
I can see this solution may not be best for it's sound quieting abilities, but sholuld help the clipping problem --> Right

Mista Meener:  I plan to regulate my AT44-L to get 50/60 shots at 925/950 fps (JSB 10.34 or CP 10.50).  This way I get more shots at the most accurate velocity, and remain under the "Limbo Stick".

Baxter is right but I had a ldc that sprayed all over the place and now it is not bad. I did drill it out the length of the baffles. but if you are breaking sound barrier I think they are useless.you can hear a rush of noise and a crack by the target. You a4re doing the right thing regulating your rifle at 920-950. unless you have people living on top of you the noise without ldc will be ok. my at 44 goes 870 fps without ldc and I have people 50 ft away and it is ok

Least I could do after getting all off TOPIC:

You guys would have to be the judge of AT44's without LDC, and neighbors. My closest is across the road and down about 1/8th mile.
They hear my guns but don't care as are shooting PBs, lol.
Sound taken off muzzle (air s.) 10" and off to side 4"

2240 bone stock: 95db
AT44W-10 .22 : 102db ☆☆☆with air stripper which does act somewhat a sound diverter there ...☆☆☆
AT44W-10 .25 long: 103db air S.
Galation IV .25  : 102db air S.
BT65 Elite .25: 108db air S.

So my "guess" would be they will hear with no LDC. The reason, I am guessing, is because in urban developments, there are so many other noises, that the air gun pops might not be are clear as they are in rural areas. Until 30 days ago, we have lived on a dirt road.

PDF file on sounds, kind of interesting comparing teains to crickets.

acoustics.ippt.gov.pl/index.php/aa/article/download/713/631 

Be Well,
Gator

[mista meener]

Yes....songwriting is causing to path of the pellet not to travel straight, or the LDC itself is not correctly align.

Axial alignment is everything on a LDC.  Drilling out the ID may improve things some but it does not solve the misalignment.  If the pellet is barely missing one quadrant of the baffle and has lots of room on the opposite side the uneven air flow will destroy the accuracy. 

I run 0.315 on my 30 cal LDC and there is no effect on accuracy or POI.  I started at 0.375 and then the baffle was reduced to .315, the increase in effectiveness was obvious.

Getting an add-on LDC to function properly is no easy feat, there are many places where problems arise.  Barrel/bore concentricity, LDC/barrel fit, set screw canting, poor alignment in the LDC itself, etc..........

One thing for sure.  If you have clipping there is an alignment issue somewhere.  I'd start by fixing the alignment before drilling out the baffles.

Tom

I think you have it right being by drilling out the wolf accuracy greatly improved but not what it should be. baxter does it right on a good lathe