Recommendations Please

[AHMSA]

Hi Everyone,

I'm ready to buy my next airgun.  I'm looking for a magnum rifle for target shooting and small game hunting.  Mostly squirrels and rabbits but would much prefer one that can take raccoons and other critters.  What I'm looking for is:

1. .22 caliber.
2. Wood stock (preferred).
3. Gas piston (highly preferred).
4. Powerful.
5. Accurate at 50 yards (would love to be able to put holes in paper at 100 yards but don't know if that's possible).
6. $300 or less.

I've done a little research but would like to hear commendations.  The ones I'm considering the most right now are:

Benjamin Trail NP XL
Hatsan 135 Vortex
Hatsan 95 Vortex


Any ideas, suggestions, and advise would be welcomed.  Thanks in advance!

[Minuteman]

I would cross the Benjamin XL off your list. I had one and it was junk. I hear the Hatsans are pretty good.

[dw]

The 95 and 135 are both beautiful guns and I think good value for the money.  Mine are both Vortex versions.  My 95 is .22 and very accurate.  The 135 I got in .25 is not nearly as accurate as the 95.  Having read thru a lot of posts in the last year, I get the impression from many posts that the 95 is going to be less hold-sensitive and more accurate, and my experience is the same.  You definitely don't need the 135 to kill squirrels and rabbits; the 95 will certainly take care of them.  Can't comment on raccoons, though, since I haven't hunted any of those.

Dennis

[farmerjoe99]

You might want to look at a FDpcp with his pump combo its is $305 but it has the benefits
of being pcp(no hold sensitivity and it can do that with power)
the downside is you have to pump the gun up for every xx amount of shots
(which as it runs on only 1500psi it is not a chore to fill)
There is a ton of great info on these in the flying dragon gate.

If you decide you want to go spring from what I've read
I would go with one of the hatsans.
Joseph

[AHMSA]

I would cross the Benjamin XL off your list. I had one and it was junk. I hear the Hatsans are pretty good.

Thanks for the information!

[AHMSA]

The 95 and 135 are both beautiful guns and I think good value for the money.  Mine are both Vortex versions.  My 95 is .22 and very accurate.  The 135 I got in .25 is not nearly as accurate as the 95.  Having read thru a lot of posts in the last year, I get the impression from many posts that the 95 is going to be less hold-sensitive and more accurate, and my experience is the same.  You definitely don't need the 135 to kill squirrels and rabbits; the 95 will certainly take care of them.  Can't comment on raccoons, though, since I haven't hunted any of those.

Dennis

Thanks for the information.  Is it true that the cocking effort on the 95 is way less than the 135?  Have yo tried the 95 at 50 yards or more? If so how accurate was it at this kind of distance?


Thank you!

[AHMSA]

You might want to look at a FDpcp with his pump combo its is $305 but it has the benefits
of being pcp(no hold sensitivity and it can do that with power)
the downside is you have to pump the gun up for every xx amount of shots
(which as it runs on only 1500psi it is not a chore to fill)
There is a ton of great info on these in the flying dragon gate.

If you decide you want to go spring from what I've read
I would go with one of the hatsans.
Joseph

Thanks for the reply.

The FD PCP sounds like a good option as well.  However, what worries me is that on their website, they say that it's not a tuned rifle and that is a bare bone rifle.  They talk about additional work to fine-tune it.  I'm not a handy person and I really don't know how to modify a gun.  With this gun containing high-pressured gas, I would assume it is dangerous to play with it if I don't know what I'm doing.


However, while visiting the Flying Dragon Airguns website, I noticed something else: Xisico Model XS28M with the full tune option.  At $270.00, it's a full-tuned rifle with the claimed velocity of 950 FPS using lead pellets.  I wonder how accurate it is and whether or not it's hold sensitive.

Again, thank you for the great suggestion.

[dw]

The 95 and 135 are both beautiful guns and I think good value for the money.  Mine are both Vortex versions.  My 95 is .22 and very accurate.  The 135 I got in .25 is not nearly as accurate as the 95.  Having read thru a lot of posts in the last year, I get the impression from many posts that the 95 is going to be less hold-sensitive and more accurate, and my experience is the same.  You definitely don't need the 135 to kill squirrels and rabbits; the 95 will certainly take care of them.  Can't comment on raccoons, though, since I haven't hunted any of those.

Dennis

Thanks for the information.  Is it true that the cocking effort on the 95 is way less than the 135?  Have yo tried the 95 at 50 yards or more? If so how accurate was it at this kind of distance?


Thank you!

The cocking effort on the 95 is MUCH less than for the 135.  If I had to grab one gun for target practice and pest elimination, it would be the 95.

Dennis

[dw]

The 95 and 135 are both beautiful guns and I think good value for the money.  Mine are both Vortex versions.  My 95 is .22 and very accurate.  The 135 I got in .25 is not nearly as accurate as the 95.  Having read thru a lot of posts in the last year, I get the impression from many posts that the 95 is going to be less hold-sensitive and more accurate, and my experience is the same.  You definitely don't need the 135 to kill squirrels and rabbits; the 95 will certainly take care of them.  Can't comment on raccoons, though, since I haven't hunted any of those.

Dennis

Thanks for the information.  Is it true that the cocking effort on the 95 is way less than the 135?  Have yo tried the 95 at 50 yards or more? If so how accurate was it at this kind of distance?


Thank you!

Sorry,

Haven't tried either gun at more than about 20 yards.  I mainly fire them indoors at 14 yards. 

Dennis

[SpiralGroove]

Hey AHMSA,
Given all your criteria & personal strengths/weaknesses, I would recommend the XS28M - fully tuned by Mike Melick of FD.
I'm not sure of its accuracy at 50 yards, but the gun is a clone of the RWS 350 -> it should be accurate.  The stock is not near the beauty of a Hatsan (but not beach).

I shy away from the Hatsan's as they need TLC to really perform.  I love my Hatsan 95's, but were recommending a gun for you  
For long distance shooting, save your pennies and get a BAM B-50/51 or an AT44-10WL -> However, not a springer, more expensive and will need to be tuned.
Unfortunately, you can't get it all on your budget...........You'll need a decent Hawke or UTG scope too.

My Two Cents....

[Rescue912]

I am going for a write-in here ... If you could find one of Mike Melick's XS46U's in .22 with a gas ram conversion I would go for that. Very nicely behaved and around 800FPS in .22 I would qualify as a magnum.

Of the ones you listed the 135 is a nice feeling, shooting and beautiful rifle. Mine had an issue with the rifling for about the last 1" of the barrel so I chopped it. After that ( in .25 ) it would put out 30+ FPE and hit like a brick on a bottle. The .22 put out slightly more energy, can't imagine what it would do to a bushytail.

[jus Tom]

Being that you're new here, Welcome, there's a lot to learn and these fellows are some of the best to learn from.

Raccoons are TOUGH critters, you might get one to succumb to a very well placed shot, but usually just get their attention and hope to slow them down so you can finish them off at closer range. Personally wouldn't even take a shot at 50yds on any pest,, too many variables with air rifles.
I agree you are on the right track as far as .22 and gas piston. Read all you can here before you jump into something and don't get your expectations too high for "out of the box accuracy".
PyramydAir is a great place to deal with their 30 day return policy, Good luck whatever your decision.

[AHMSA]

Hey AHMSA,
Given all your criteria & personal strengths/weaknesses, I would recommend the XS28M - fully tuned by Mike Melick of FD.
I'm not sure of its accuracy at 50 yards, but the gun is a clone of the RWS 350 -> it should be accurate.  The stock is not near the beauty of a Hatsan (but not beach).

I shy away from the Hatsan's as they need TLC to really perform.  I love my Hatsan 95's, but were recommending a gun for you  
For long distance shooting, save your pennies and get a BAM B-50/51 or an AT44-10WL -> However, not a springer, more expensive and will need to be tuned.
Unfortunately, you can't get it all on your budget...........You'll need a decent Hawke or UTG scope too.

My Two Cents....

Hi SpiralGroove,

Thanks for the recommendation. I just realized that the XS28M is a spring only piston and cannot be converted to a gas ram.  I'm worried about spring fatigue considering I'm planning to use it for hunting as well as target practice.  But the XS28M is still on my list because of the power and accuracy that I'm hearing bout.

It's interesting that you found Hatsans needed TLC to perform well.  The main reason I'm considering a Hatsan is that I hear they are usually good out of the box.  I especially like the fact that the velocity they mention on the box is measured with lead pellets.

I'm not very interested in a PCP for a couple of reasons.  The main one is that I don't want to carry a pump with me when I go hunting (I already carry a load of things with me).

Again, thank you for your reply!

[AHMSA]

I am going for a write-in here ... If you could find one of Mike Melick's XS46U's in .22 with a gas ram conversion I would go for that. Very nicely behaved and around 800FPS in .22 I would qualify as a magnum.

Of the ones you listed the 135 is a nice feeling, shooting and beautiful rifle. Mine had an issue with the rifling for about the last 1" of the barrel so I chopped it. After that ( in .25 ) it would put out 30+ FPE and hit like a brick on a bottle. The .22 put out slightly more energy, can't imagine what it would do to a bushytail.

Hi Rescue912,

Thank you for the recommendation.  The XS46U with the gas ram conversion seems like a really good option.  Within my budget, wood stock, and pretty powerful.  I wonder if the fact that the barrel does not move (since it's an underlever) gives it an extra level of accuracy.  Do you know if loading/seating the pellet becomes a little difficult with the way the breach opens up?

Again, thank you for your help.

[AHMSA]

Being that you're new here, Welcome, there's a lot to learn and these fellows are some of the best to learn from.

Raccoons are TOUGH critters, you might get one to succumb to a very well placed shot, but usually just get their attention and hope to slow them down so you can finish them off at closer range. Personally wouldn't even take a shot at 50yds on any pest,, too many variables with air rifles.
I agree you are on the right track as far as .22 and gas piston. Read all you can here before you jump into something and don't get your expectations too high for "out of the box accuracy".
PyramydAir is a great place to deal with their 30 day return policy, Good luck whatever your decision.

Hi jus tom,

Thank you for your reply and for the welcome note.

I should have explained my range of shooting a little better.  I don't plan to shoot at pests at that distance.  More like 10 to 30 yards for taking game.  However, I enjoy putting holes in paper and would love to have something that will give me good groups at 50 yards.  If I can be hitting target at 100 yards, I will be very happy, but I don't think that's possible with a springer.

Thanks for recommending Pyramid Air.  I've purchased from them a couple of times before and had a good experience with them.

Thank you very much!

[AHMSA]

Does everyone pretty much agree that the Benjamin Trail NP XL should be off of my list?  I find that funny because it was on top of my list.  Is their marketing department doing a better job than their engineering department, quality assurance department, or manufacturing department?

Also from what I'm reading the NP2 is even worse than the NP XL.  Is that true?

[mobilehomer]

The first release of the NP2 was basically a disaster. Poor power, scope rails falling off and accuracy problems. From the info Crosman released to the airgun community through different forums, the glitches seem to have been worked out. The reviews I have read both here and on Pyramyd Air and Airgun Depot sites have been VERY favorable! Several guys here have gotten them in the lsat couple weeks and really do like them. The power is midway between a standard NP and the XL. Accuracy seems to be better than minute of squirrel head at 40 yards. I just bought a new .22 rimfire, so that purchase will have to wait a few more weeks.

[AHMSA]

The first release of the NP2 was basically a disaster. Poor power, scope rails falling off and accuracy problems. From the info Crosman released to the airgun community through different forums, the glitches seem to have been worked out. The reviews I have read both here and on Pyramyd Air and Airgun Depot sites have been VERY favorable! Several guys here have gotten them in the lsat couple weeks and really do like them. The power is midway between a standard NP and the XL. Accuracy seems to be better than minute of squirrel head at 40 yards. I just bought a new .22 rimfire, so that purchase will have to wait a few more weeks.

Thanks for the info and congratulations on your new .22 rimfire.  Have fun with it!

I guess, I'll add the NP2 to my list of options... which has only grown:

1. Trail NP XL.
2. Hatsan 95 Vortex.
3. Hatsan 135 Vortex.
4. NP2.
5. XS46U with the gas ram conversion.
6. Hatsan 125 sniper vortex (although it has synthetic stock, but the camouflage option is sort of nice).
7. Xisico Model XS28M (less likely because of the spring piston - spring fatigue).
8. Umarex Octane (less likely for two reasons: They advertise a power that's not even close to reality and I don't care much for the stock).

From here, maybe I should start crossing out items from my list to decide on the one I want to get.

Thank you guys.  Very good comments and recommendation.  I truly appreciate your help.

[SpiralGroove]

Hey AHMSA,
Last comments,
1) I wouldn't worry that much about spring fatigue on the XS28
2) I would worry about the 9.2 lbs (before scope) and hold sensitivity of the Hatsan 135

Good Luck

[AHMSA]

Hey AHMSA,
Last comments,
1) I wouldn't worry that much about spring fatigue on the XS28
2) I would worry about the 9.2 lbs (before scope) and hold sensitivity of the Hatsan 135

Good Luck

Hi SpiralGroove,

Thanks again.  I agree the Hatsan 135 is on the bottom of my list right now.  I don't know about spring fatigue.  Crosman's and other companies' marketing departments have gotten the idea of spring fatigue to my head.

Again, I truly appreciate your help.