Ruger Blackhawk Elite Tuning - My First

[JR]

Chris's project is now my project.....I'm checking a few things on it and taking it out later, I'll let you know what I think. I moved the scope and swapped rings until I get new screws for the 1pc mount. I got this for the grand kid to shoot. I don't know what a stock one is like to cock but the Vortek spring is harder than I would have thought. I'll do a so so sight in before I leave to get it close. I told Chris my plan was if the kid has a hard time cocking it I plan on trying the stock spring first, then maybe cut a coil or two off the stock spring until he can cock it better. When I see he can cock it safely with the Vortek spring I'll put it back in. He shoots my RWS 94 so so and I can tell you the Vortek spring in this is stiffer than the Maccari spring in the RWS.

BTW.......Thanks Chris....

[56S]

Having shot the RWS 94 and my a Ruger with a stock spring, I'd say the 94 is about 5 lbs easier to cock. It may be more but the Ruger has the blob to help as a handle.

[UCChris]

That Vortek is indeed stout to cock. At least it is smooth though. I can't imagine stout and gritty. Nasty...

JR, you are going to have to move the piston seal over from the Vortek kit, since the OEM seal was beyond saving.

Edit: Nevermind, I'm dumb. You're just switching out springs...

[JR]

OK....did a little test drive yesterday.....shot a few across the Chrony and put about 70 shots through it. Chris didn't have a Chrony so he didn't have any numbers, I tried a few different pellets. The lightest were Beeman 7.1 gr, then  CPHP 7.9 gr and Crossman heavy 10.5 gr.

First few shots with the CPHP were 780'ish FPS, I thought that seemed a little low so I checked the breech seal. The seal wasn't much more than flush so I pulled it out and replaced it with a shim behind the new seal. The next shots were 830 FPS, so the new seal helped a little. I really don't know how many shots this new set of guts has on it but these are the numbers for now.

CPHP  7.9 gr    Ave......831     ES.......14

Destroyer 7.9 gr   Ave......828   ES.......10

Crosman 10.5 gr     Ave.......731     ES.....24

Beeman 7.1 gr      Ave........863       ES.....32

CPL   7.9 gr       Ave....834        ES.....12

I shot a few shots at 28 ft. CPHP did fairly well as did Destroyers and the CPL that Chris gave me. All three pellets were about quarter size 10 shot groups. Not bad considering I haven't shot this gun before. The Crossman 10.5 gr  did very poor, like 4-5 inch poor, it doesn't not like these pellets. The Beeman 7.1 gr didn't do much better than the 10.5 gr did.

One thing I did notice while shooting it was how I had to cock it to get it to latch the sear. It didn't do it every time but most of the time. You more or less have to jam it at the end of the cocking travel to get it to latch. Most have a little over travel after it cocks, this one has something preventing it from latching like I think it should. I don't know what this gun is like out of the box but I assume it should latch easier.
 
So I take it out shooting/take the dog for a run down to the river bottoms. I walk up top for about 2 miles and she runs all over and covers 5 miles. I go there 3-4 times a week and take a pellet gun every time I go. I know what the ranges are because I have checked with my range finder, longest is 131 yards. I started shooting at a spot I know is 50 yds, I shot CPHP the whole time. It took about 20-25 shots to get the scope where I wanted it, but it shot pretty good 2 inch'ish. I adjust my scopes so I hold  just under POI, I then shot at 75 yds, I was hitting about 1 in low so I adjusted the scope. I was still hitting about 2 inch'ish groups so I went out to 131 yds. Shooting this far I was hitting 3 in low so I adjusted the scope a little more. Just as a side note the REX scope still had 4 more turns before it maxed out at this range. So shooting at 131 yds out of 32 shots most hit within 4 in group, yes there were a few fliers but not bad for that range. I was shooting at a white rock in the mud I would guess was golf ball size. I wasn't giving up until I hit it and on try 32 I knocked it in the mud out of sight.

Over all not a bad little gun, I'll see today if the grandkid can cock it or if I need to detune it. I am going to tear into it and see why the sear isn't latching, that is not a good thing. I have tried adjusting the screws but you still have to cock it hard to get the sear to latch. The stock rubs the barrel when cocking a little so I am also going to shim that out so it doesn't rub. I think it will make a good step up for him when I get the sear deal worked out. It weighs a little more than I though but not to bad, he packed and shot my RWS the other day for 2 hrs.

We'll see how today go's and I'll report back on if I need to detune it.

[56S]

Just got back from spitting a few boxed CPLs over the chrony. A consistent 875-880.  I have a stock refurb Blackhawk Elite using a very tiny bit of Honda 60 Moly paste mixed with moly powder on the rear end of the piston and dry moly everywhere else on the piston.  Been shooting these numbers since new.  Figure I have 500+ through it by now oh, and 1/2" groups at 25 yds too.

[JR]

I would like to have those numbers but up here at 4800 above sea level we loose a few FPS.

Well, just had him cock it and shoot it a little so I know where to start messing with it. He can cock it but struggles more than he will admit, so I'll try the stock spring and see how much difference there is. Then I'll start removing coils from the stock spring to detune it as I need. As far as holding and aiming it he did ok, hit a pop can at 30 ft seven out of ten times.

[56S]

4800'. Holy cow! I did forget we do shoot AIR guns and you are lacking in that department.  I'm right about 850 if I'm sitting.

[UCChris]

The sear latch has to do with Mike's trigger mod. It wasn't latching at all, but I adjusted the screws and haven't had a problem since (100 shots or so)

Haha, 56S, the air is a little thin up here. I went rabbit hunting today and it was 5600 feet where I was.

[56S]

So this is how they dimple golf balls
This is an aluminum pipe coupler that is part of a tree rat proof bird feeder I'm making for Mrs. 56S.  It is placed 23 yds from my favorite shooting spot.
5 shots, boxed domes, not even trying.

[FrozenVapors]

Awesomeeeeee! Staying tuned to see what happens!

[JR]

That's some good shooting, this one can come close to that but I get flustered with cocking it and they open up.

So...I pulled the Vortek spring and put the stock spring back in, I didn't do anything else, pulled one spring out, put the OEM back in. I took it out and shot it a few times, first thing I notice is the sear catches better, not like I think it should but better than with the Vortek spring. The OEM spring does make more noise, I don't know that I would call it night and day difference. The OEM spring was clean so I did put a small amount of tar on it, not much because I figured I would be pulling back out shortly anyway.

Shooting across the Chrony with the OEM spring......Same 7.9 gr CPHP as before, 10 shots ave. 843, so a little faster than the first shots with the Vortek spring, ES was 27 though.

I then pulled the OEM spring and put the Vortek spring back in. I cocked it a few times and it requires more to get the sear to latch than the OEM spring did.  I shot it across the Chony again and I'm getting 800 fps, +/- 8 fps. So I wondered why it was 30 fps lower now...only thing I can think of is that it has had about 300 shots through it since I got it and the seal is worn in better.

So....apart it comes again, I pulled out the spring and this time I removed the piston to see what the seal is like. The seal looks for the most part ok, a couple little bugger marks.

There are 2 things on the piston I wonder about.....
#1...The center latch rod is not centered in the piston...I can force it centered with a screwdrive but it goes back to off center, The rod has splines on it down by the piston head, can I knock the rod out bend it straight and put it back in the piston?...... The mushroom head for the sear latch is kind of buggered up on the top side, which is the side the rod is bent towards.

#2....There is a washer in the bottom of the piston, this washer is a little less the the end of the slot for the cocking rod. I can stick a small screwdriver between the washer and the piston body. Maybe this is normal? Maybe the washer should be 1/2" farther down inside the piston? Maybe it is sticking out to far making the spring over compress when cocking so the rode doesn't travel back into the sear like it should?


So.....you guys with this same gun.....When you cock it, can you hear and/or feel the sear latch before the end of the cocking stroke? Or are they all the same and you have to have a hard stop when cocking to get it to latch? Every gun I own 9? total all have some free travel at the end of the cocking stroke. This gun has none, you can cock it as far back as it will go and ease off and there is no spring tension at all.


Also, nothing against Chris...might have worked fine for him, these are just my findings

Edit....Just got off the phone with Vortek, explained how it latches with both springs and the washer in the piston. He said he doesn't remember a washer being in the piston but if there was he would think it would be at the bottom not 1/4-1/2" back. He said to try it with the top hat off (which I was going to try anyway) That will shorten up the preload by 3/4"ish. If the guts are to long this would solve the latching issue. So that's what I'm trying next, we'll see if it works. The rod being off center isn't helping either

[56S]

The muzzle might move an additional 1/2" after latch. Once latched you can pull it back another 1.5-2" I'd guess.  Very little done to mine. Took maybe 2mm off the spring ends total to square and polish.  No change it washers or guides. Light honda 60 moly on the spring.  Biggest improvement was adding shims behind the pivots washers

[56S]

Forgot to add. That piston scares me!  That is an accident waiting to happen.

[TooJung2Die]

I have the Air Hawk, basically the same rifle. They must have quality issues with piston assembly. My piston had a loose head so I welded it. Then the rod was then slightly off center so I centered it with a rubber mallet. Others say they had loose piston heads and thought it was supposed to be that way so the rod would center itself in the latch. Some welded the head, some leave it loose. Having never seen a purposely loose head before I assume it should be tight. Yours is tight but it got crimped off center. Obviously it is supposed to be centered. Trying to center it with force could loosen the splines. Good luck. If mine came loose I would try drilling a hole and pinning it.

It sounds like there is too much spacing for the length of the spring. Taking out washers or the top hat should resolve the latching problem. Cutting out a coil would work as well. To be safe there needs to be some overthrow past the point where the piston latches to ensure full engagement with the latch. Like having a trigger sear set on the edge of breaking, you don't want the piston latched on the edge of letting go. Sounds potentially dangerous to me.

[JR]

Exactly what I think it is, a accident waiting to happen, I'm going to have it in parts again in a minute, need a zipper on it. and yes the piston head is a tad loose. When I force the center rod to center or just past it does flex around the piston head.

So the washer that is down inside...anybody else remember a washer in there? It is just outside of the stake marks on the piston but it looks like it is tight on the splines on the rod and so so tight in the piston with slight pressure by the staking. My first guess was this washer should be on the other side of the stakes on the piston. I can get a small screwdriver behind it in the cocking slot and wiggle it but that's all.

I also backed Mikes extra screw out most of the way, really made no difference in latching, screw it in to far won't latch at all. So it's either barely or not at all.

 As a side note....I just shot my  Benjamin Trail to compare speed, I would think these two guns would be close in speed. I put the 177 barrel on it a few months ago and have never checked the speed. I have put close to 1000 shots through the 177 barrel, twice that with the 22 cal barrel. I have de-burred it, crosshatched, tapered the transfer port and new seal when it was new. The Trail is shooting CPHP's 904 fps ave. ES of 5 fps, that was 5 shots...was starting to cloud up and rain. The Trail is 100 fps faster, my RWS 94 also is just over 900 fps, my old  TF99 is just under 900. So I'm wondering if the rod being off center is making the seal off center, would explain a loss of 100 fps.

[TooJung2Die]

The EVP diagram shows a thrust washer on the spring guide #37 but no washer in the piston. If a thrust washer was added inside the piston it should be loose enough to move freely so the spring can unwind on release without friction. The Air Hawk and Blackhawk part diagrams are the same. Does this photo look like your piston with cocking slot?

[JR]

Thanks for the pic...Yep almost exactly like that! mine is just a tad farther out

So I fixed the cocking issue! I removed the top hat off the Vortek sping, just tried it, works like a champ, has about 1/4" over travel at the end of the cocking travel. It works better now than with the stock spring. The top hat is about 5/16 thick, so if I remove about half the thickness it should cock just fine with a little over travel when latched. If not I'll remove a little more.

However..I am beginning to wonder if the speed is slower than it should be, and loosing a little preload isin't going to help that, wondering if the spring was crunched a little the way it was? But if it still shoots around 800, shoots at least as good as it did I'm good with it. At least I feel safe with it now.

[56S]

Yep. Mine is this way.  Washer is very thin. Just enough to keep the spring end from cutting into the composite.  One test I did when new was to chuck the piston in the drill press and I remember being impressed at well centered the latch pin is.

[TooJung2Die]

Thanks for the pic...Yep almost exactly like that! mine is just a tad farther out

So I fixed the cocking issue! I removed the top hat off the Vortek sping, just tried it, works like a champ, has about 1/4" over travel at the end of the cocking travel. It works better now than with the stock spring. The top hat is about 5/16 thick, so if I remove about half the thickness it should cock just fine with a little over travel when latched. If not I'll remove a little more.

However..I am beginning to wonder if the speed is slower than it should be, and loosing a little preload isin't going to help that, wondering if the spring was crunched a little the way it was? But if it still shoots around 800, shoots at least as good as it did I'm good with it. At least I feel safe with it now.

Happy to help and very glad you figured out the cocking issue. My Air Hawk clocks a hair under 900 fps with 8.3 gr Superdome pellets. It is bone stock except for a new Vortek ProSeal Black piston seal.
Jon

[JR]

Alright boys and girls just shot 10 shots through it, wwaaaayyy better. Everything is so much better, cocks easier, trigger feels better, shot cycle is just a thump. The trigger screws are way out of whack now, kinda like a Crosman trigger, but you can hear and feel the sear snap into place now! To late to shoot across the chromy so I'll unzip it again and do some tweeking. I know Chris did some de-burring and put the parts in so I'll do a little more. Shave some off the top hat, so it will work, buff the chamber up and taper the transfer port. When I get it back together I'll post what kind of numbers I get out of it. I did tweek the center shaft over a little, fairly close to center now but it does have a bit more wiggle around the head. Hard to tell if the piston seal is on a angle or how much. I figured if I messed it up I'd get a new piston. Might tig it just to feel warm and fuzzy.