Quote from: Nomadic Pirate on July 19, 2014, 05:24:13 PMQuote from: Laz on July 19, 2014, 03:54:03 PMTopic should be renamed ".25 Springer under $600" because any pcp .25 under $600 would blow any .25 springer out of the water.And lol. Saying the Sumatra as the most versatile .25 is highly subjective. I wonder how come you don't have one then Manny? Laz my man, I said many a times that if Sumatras came in .357 I would sell all my Storms and have one Sumatra carbine and one 500cc in .22 .25 and .357 Why is it the most versatile .25 ?well, it's a fast cycling 6 shooter lever action that can be powered way, way down and shoot the lightest .25 pellets in the 30 FPE range, than with the flick of a finger can be powered way up and shoot cast bullets at over 100 FPE, the barrels aren't pellet picky so you can shoot just about everything else in between at different power levels The barrels are threaded so you can go from LDC to bare barrel in a couple of seconds,...I say she's a pretty versatile rifle indeed Those are all fine points Manny. If one absolutely must have a repeater and power at once, Sumatra may be the ticket. If one wants power and accuracy at once but can live with and use effectively a single shot I'd definitely look at the big bird. Very hard to beat a 24" LW barrel with a 24" Korean barrel as far as accuracy goes. As far as versatility, my friend, let's not forget the endless mods, feats, and capabilities of the Condor platform (not TalonP ) Airgunwarriors, if you aren't stuck on repeaters, the Condor .25 would make the ultimate platform for shooting heavy ammo accurately at longer ranges at an economical price. If it is FPE you are after, it can be modded more powerful than all the Hatsans and Sumatra. Not to mention the sweet LW barrel will give you an easier time finding/making the right cast pellet for than non LW. Heck, the Condor can give you the option of going .257 and up seeing as how good you are at casting pellets already. Then you are talking 200+ FPE accurately (What I mean is casting bullets) The Condor platform is a slippery road. I'm already determined and sold on BBT's. Got to shot his 50gr's at a mild 895 fps awhile ago and both 5 shot groups sub .75" at 50 yards. Uncleaned, not broken in barrel. Can't wait to get ahold of more to really stretch the legs.
Quote from: Laz on July 19, 2014, 03:54:03 PMTopic should be renamed ".25 Springer under $600" because any pcp .25 under $600 would blow any .25 springer out of the water.And lol. Saying the Sumatra as the most versatile .25 is highly subjective. I wonder how come you don't have one then Manny? Laz my man, I said many a times that if Sumatras came in .357 I would sell all my Storms and have one Sumatra carbine and one 500cc in .22 .25 and .357 Why is it the most versatile .25 ?well, it's a fast cycling 6 shooter lever action that can be powered way, way down and shoot the lightest .25 pellets in the 30 FPE range, than with the flick of a finger can be powered way up and shoot cast bullets at over 100 FPE, the barrels aren't pellet picky so you can shoot just about everything else in between at different power levels The barrels are threaded so you can go from LDC to bare barrel in a couple of seconds,...I say she's a pretty versatile rifle indeed
Topic should be renamed ".25 Springer under $600" because any pcp .25 under $600 would blow any .25 springer out of the water.And lol. Saying the Sumatra as the most versatile .25 is highly subjective. I wonder how come you don't have one then Manny?
☆★☆★☆BOB THANKS SO MUCH FOR LINKING ME TO THE HATSAN Mods HelpI trust your tune advise with blind faith. ☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆Al, If you would have bought that refurb bt65, then I would not been so tempted.Happily I lost all restraint tonight. Rick called me and after he answered my questions I said I'll that take that darn BT65 Elite. No will power. If Al would have bought, then I wouldn't need to eat cat food for the rest of the month, lol. The good thing is I guess, and partly why I bought another Hatsan is because I have three 255cc exchangable air tanks. 765ccs all combined and that means about 90-100 shots for the BT65 and 180 shots for the GalationWithout lugging big air. Rick tell's me the refurbs they are selling are returns from P.A.and Air Gun Depot. If they are defective or scratched up, then they are used for parts. So the refurbs are like new with all the goodies that come with a new gun. The 28% ($200) discount is in this case costs you 9 months warranty. Why don't more factories add the the extras as the higher line Hatsan PCPs do.?I mean exchangable air tanks is a no brainer. Marauder would probably double their sales if you could buy portable air tubes, Weaver scope mounts and the 3 Weaver forestock mounts.If they offered open sights and my favorite, adjustable rear butt plate. Being able to slideThe butt pad down that extra 1" helps line up my lanky frame to get the glass in the best spot for me?Good luck Al, I hope you find that perfect rifle. Maybe you could just buy the rifle first, then start looking for a used air supply. It is my guess, lots of guys buy a pump and decide that it sux, then go look for a tank. They end up wasting that $200+ they spent for a pump. Or you could buy a used pump for say $75 and tuff it out for awhile then sell the pump again for $75. No harm no foul.http://www.airgunproshop.com/hatsan-airguns/viewitem.php?productid=114Be Well,Gator
How heavy you go on bullets will depend on how much power you think you can get.... which may mean how skilled are you are increasing the power.... divide the FPE by 2 to get the ideal bullet weight, IMO....Bob
"My Plan" for the BT-65 was to open the loading port and extend the magazine rearward (there's easily .100" available between the mag and bolt recess) and make it repeater that will fit the Bob's Boat Tails boolit..after following Bob's basic mod plan to up the power... to get in reasonable sight of Bob's thoughts about 90fpe for boolits.....hmmmm, seems to be some kind of a theme here doesn't it?...I had already gotten a mini lathe and was digging around for an X-Y milling attachment for it when i got sick and had to liquidate...(which turned out to be a "if I knew then what I know now" thing)
The AT-44 is not a light rifle.... and the long version is on the heavy side.... The BT-65 is a tank.... My 44 Long with a largish scope and bipod is 10 lbs.... If you don't like lugging a heavy gun around in the field, I would avoid the BT-65.... It makes the MRod a lightweight by comparison....Bob
the Condor has never been known for being that accurate of a gun, ....regardless of the big name barrel.
Quote from: Nomadic Pirate on July 20, 2014, 07:35:29 AMthe Condor has never been known for being that accurate of a gun, ....regardless of the big name barrel.It appears you missed my point... I said accuracy and power at once. Compared to a Sumatra And I've seen Condors compete in 100m matches against other superior rifles. Korean guns- zero times . But that's not to gauge how accurate a gun can be... Just saying Airgunwarriors, me and Manny will not take away from the topic no more. I personally think for what you are after and what you wish to accomplish, the AT44-10 Long or BT65 are awesome candidates. Especially the side lever and bolt action parts. Sooo much better than any under-lever pcp. And those two Hatsans are beasts/can be beasts. Good luck in the final decision!! Can't go wrong any way you go!
The AT-44-Long and the BT-65 both have a 23" barrel, the standard AT-44 is 19.3".... The reservoirs are 255cc (BT-65), 230cc and 180cc (AT-44s).... The BT-65 weighs 9-9.4 lbs, the AT-44 weighs 7-7.9 lbs (7.9-8.8 for the Long).... all weights depending on the stock chosen, and bare rifle, no scope.... Since I was capable of tuning the 44-Long, and it had the same barrel length (and hence potential power) as the BT-65, that was my choice.... For any given tune you can never make up for the 3.7" difference in barrel length, they will always differ by about 40-50 fps....Bob
Quote from: rsterne on July 20, 2014, 02:57:48 PMThe AT-44-Long and the BT-65 both have a 23" barrel, the standard AT-44 is 19.3".... The reservoirs are 255cc (BT-65), 230cc and 180cc (AT-44s).... The BT-65 weighs 9-9.4 lbs, the AT-44 weighs 7-7.9 lbs (7.9-8.8 for the Long).... all weights depending on the stock chosen, and bare rifle, no scope.... Since I was capable of tuning the 44-Long, and it had the same barrel length (and hence potential power) as the BT-65, that was my choice.... For any given tune you can never make up for the 3.7" difference in barrel length, they will always differ by about 40-50 fps....Bob"The reservoirs are 255cc (BT-65), 230cc and 180cc (AT-44s).... "Bob,Thank you.Question: why does the AT-44 have 2 different reservoir sizes?Pretty sure I would want the 230cc, so which AT44 has the 230cc reservoir?I understand what you are saying about the barrel length, tuning and power achievement. Really not interested in a long barrel, so if I could achieve an fps that ranges from the mid to high 900s shooting ammo that weighs around 34-grain, then I would get the 19.3" barrel, if not, then the 23" inch barrel it will be!What do you think?I need to read all of the posts in this thread in relation to the Hatsan AT44 again so as to have a better grip on what it takes to get a certain level of power.Thanks,Al.EDIT: Bob, I found the answer about the various reservoir sizes myself and should have figured it out immediately, but I tend to be a bit slow sometimes.
The AT-44 Long has a longer reservoir to go along with the longer barrel.... 23" barrel, 230 cc reservoir.... 19.3" barrel, 180 cc reservoir....Getting mid to high 900's with the 19.3" barrel and 34 gr. pellets (68+ FPE) will be quite a challenge.... You will have to do ALL the mods I did and then find more on top of that....Bob
Quote from: Laz on July 20, 2014, 05:57:44 PMQuote from: Nomadic Pirate on July 20, 2014, 07:35:29 AMthe Condor has never been known for being that accurate of a gun, ....regardless of the big name barrel.It appears you missed my point... I said accuracy and power at once. Compared to a Sumatra And I've seen Condors compete in 100m matches against other superior rifles. Korean guns- zero times . But that's not to gauge how accurate a gun can be... Just saying Airgunwarriors, me and Manny will not take away from the topic no more. I personally think for what you are after and what you wish to accomplish, the AT44-10 Long or BT65 are awesome candidates. Especially the side lever and bolt action parts. Sooo much better than any under-lever pcp. And those two Hatsans are beasts/can be beasts. Good luck in the final decision!! Can't go wrong any way you go!You are not taking away from the post!I learn a lot in just about every post and everyone's opinion counts!Please continue to chime-in!Respectfully,agw.
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