What should i expect for FPS for an HW30?

[Wunderwerks]

Just received my new (used) HW30 .177 today and it's a whole different animal compared to my D350 with a Vortek kit.   First thing I did was chrony it and it ranged from 535 to 556 using RWS 8.3 Superdomes.   The seller told me that he shot about 1,400 rounds through it.  It's about two years old and you absolutely cannot tell it from new.  I don't know if this is high, low or right on track for this AR.

[Petey]

Just received my new (used) HW30 .177 today and it's a whole different animal compared to my D350 with a Vortek kit.   First thing I did was chrony it and it ranged from 535 to 556 using RWS 8.3 Superdomes.   The seller told me that he shot about 1,400 rounds through it.  It's about two years old and you absolutely cannot tell it from new.  I don't know if this is high, low or right on track for this AR.

Not at all out the ordinary.......the factory springs tend to be real soft on the 30s...Mine was shootin 575 with 7.87 jsb and settled out at 530....drop in a JM kit should be 600-630 depending on the seal fit.  Yes other kits will see higher velocities, IMHO that poor little Ag will not live a long happy life at the high velocities.

[Not The Brightest Bulb]

IMHO that poor little Ag will not live a long happy life.

After 1400 pellets.

[mtsheron70]

Just received my new (used) HW30 .177 today and it's a whole different animal compared to my D350 with a Vortek kit.   First thing I did was chrony it and it ranged from 535 to 556 using RWS 8.3 Superdomes.   The seller told me that he shot about 1,400 rounds through it.  It's about two years old and you absolutely cannot tell it from new.  I don't know if this is high, low or right on track for this AR.

Great timing on your post Wunderwerks.  I just did a tune for a customer and our stock numbers on a new rifle with JSB 7.87 grain domed pellets were 628 fps.  Put in a Vortek kit which has a shorter spring and I was amazed what happened.  The shot cycle was so buttery smooth and now a silent thud almost but the avg. velocity set me back at 547 after the install and full tune!   

The full tune was done perfectly with no hiccups and I kept running this rifle over a chrony.  The new Vac seal was tighter for sure but not crazy tight.  The OEM seal just fell out of the tube.

I broke the gun down and looked it over again and again but could find not one thing to cause it.

I contacted Tom @ Vortek and he said not to be concerned that it needed to break in.  But with a drop like 80 fps is just not acceptable to me.  Not when feedback from others show a slight increase in power.  I just don't think it is going to break in to achieve those numbers of OEM.  Now it is as smooth now as any springer I have ever laid hands on but can't figure it out.  No nicks in the new seal; properly tarred and moly paste on the piston and compression chamber.

My customer is okay with the numbers since it will be a plinker but waiting to drop 2-3 tins through it then re-chrony to see if anything happens.

I contacted Tom again today to ask simply if it does not come back up what will he do to address the issue that is obviously not at par.

Hope this helps you a bit.

[Petey]

That's something.....with a V-tek kit I had my 30s at 685...The seal fit is king in the 30s as is the case in all tunes.
But the 30 is just so darn small every little thing has to be perfect.
I'll bet if you drop in a loose fittin factory seal you'll see some more power.
Tar----very little.....big power robber in a so small a tube.

mine - JM kit --7.87 Jsb @ 632. IMO that's the best place for 30s if you want longevity out of it.

[EMrider]

Just received my new (used) HW30 .177 today and it's a whole different animal compared to my D350 with a Vortek kit.   First thing I did was chrony it and it ranged from 535 to 556 using RWS 8.3 Superdomes.   The seller told me that he shot about 1,400 rounds through it.  It's about two years old and you absolutely cannot tell it from new.  I don't know if this is high, low or right on track for this AR.

Great timing on your post Wunderwerks.  I just did a tune for a customer and our stock numbers on a new rifle with JSB 7.87 grain domed pellets were 628 fps.  Put in a Vortek kit which has a shorter spring and I was amazed what happened.  The shot cycle was so buttery smooth and now a silent thud almost but the avg. velocity set me back at 547 after the install and full tune!   

The full tune was done perfectly with no hiccups and I kept running this rifle over a chrony.  The new Vac seal was tighter for sure but not crazy tight.  The OEM seal just fell out of the tube.

I broke the gun down and looked it over again and again but could find not one thing to cause it.

I contacted Tom @ Vortek and he said not to be concerned that it needed to break in.  But with a drop like 80 fps is just not acceptable to me.  Not when feedback from others show a slight increase in power.  I just don't think it is going to break in to achieve those numbers of OEM.  Now it is as smooth now as any springer I have ever laid hands on but can't figure it out.  No nicks in the new seal; properly tarred and moly paste on the piston and compression chamber.

My customer is okay with the numbers since it will be a plinker but waiting to drop 2-3 tins through it then re-chrony to see if anything happens.

I contacted Tom again today to ask simply if it does not come back up what will he do to address the issue that is obviously not at par.

Hope this helps you a bit.

FWIW, I too have had some unexpected results with two new hw30/r7 vortek kits (spring, guide and new seal) installed in a brand new hw30 (gift for a friend) and one of my older R7s.

In the new hw30, the vortek kit has JSB express 7.33s shooting at 690fps, or 7.7fpe.  That is quite a bump in power from OEM, but consistent with results I have seen from others using vortek kits.  But in my 3 year old R7, the new vortek kit has the same JSB express 7.33s shooting at 590fps, or 5.7fpe. 

Both vortek kits are brand new, but generating results that differ by 2fpe.  The shot cycle in both guns is very smooth and pleasant.  No complaints there.

I don't have the time or ability to carefully measure the diameter or the compression chamber or other gun specific variables.  But this has reminded me how much results can vary due to seemingly ad hoc factors.

Rob

[mtsheron70]

Just received my new (used) HW30 .177 today and it's a whole different animal compared to my D350 with a Vortek kit.   First thing I did was chrony it and it ranged from 535 to 556 using RWS 8.3 Superdomes.   The seller told me that he shot about 1,400 rounds through it.  It's about two years old and you absolutely cannot tell it from new.  I don't know if this is high, low or right on track for this AR.

Great timing on your post Wunderwerks.  I just did a tune for a customer and our stock numbers on a new rifle with JSB 7.87 grain domed pellets were 628 fps.  Put in a Vortek kit which has a shorter spring and I was amazed what happened.  The shot cycle was so buttery smooth and now a silent thud almost but the avg. velocity set me back at 547 after the install and full tune!   

The full tune was done perfectly with no hiccups and I kept running this rifle over a chrony.  The new Vac seal was tighter for sure but not crazy tight.  The OEM seal just fell out of the tube.

I broke the gun down and looked it over again and again but could find not one thing to cause it.

I contacted Tom @ Vortek and he said not to be concerned that it needed to break in.  But with a drop like 80 fps is just not acceptable to me.  Not when feedback from others show a slight increase in power.  I just don't think it is going to break in to achieve those numbers of OEM.  Now it is as smooth now as any springer I have ever laid hands on but can't figure it out.  No nicks in the new seal; properly tarred and moly paste on the piston and compression chamber.

My customer is okay with the numbers since it will be a plinker but waiting to drop 2-3 tins through it then re-chrony to see if anything happens.

I contacted Tom again today to ask simply if it does not come back up what will he do to address the issue that is obviously not at par.

Hope this helps you a bit.

FWIW, I too have had some unexpected results with two new hw30/r7 vortek kits (spring, guide and new seal) installed in a brand new hw30 (gift for a friend) and one of my older R7s.

In the new hw30, the vortek kit has JSB express 7.33s shooting at 690fps, or 7.7fpe.  That is quite a bump in power from OEM, but consistent with results I have seen from others using vortek kits.  But in my 3 year old R7, the new vortek kit has the same JSB express 7.33s shooting at 590fps, or 5.7fpe. 

Both vortek kits are brand new, but generating results that differ by 2fpe.  The shot cycle in both guns is very smooth and pleasant.  No complaints there.

I don't have the time or ability to carefully measure the diameter or the compression chamber or other gun specific variables.  But this has reminded me how much results can vary due to seemingly ad hoc factors.

Rob

That is interesting Rob.  I am awaiting Tom @ Vortek to contact me back.  I did a break down of the customers gun again today and cleaned up the piston spring; nylon top hat; and sleeve to get the thicker black tar off it and re-greased with a lighter lube.  I also cleaned the compression chamber again and used a air compressor to blow it out to include the compression hole to the chamber.

Once again same chrony results but maybe a tad lower!!!!  I really think it is a bad spring.  Has to be.  I re-installed the OEM seal that was looser in the chamber which was a suggestion by Tom and same results.  Everything points back to the spring in my estimation. 

I mean if the stock spring system is producing the claimed numbers but the new kit will not come close and even with the obvious smaller diameter piston seal then to me all things are ruled out but the spring.  Then again I could be wrong.  I bet though if I were to re-install the stock system I would get the pre-tune numbers again.

Let's wait and see what Tom decides and if he will send another system to me to try.  I will keep this thread updated since the OP is asking on the subject.

[waterman]

I get 601 with cphp 7.9 and 610 with exact 8.44 how I don't know. This is a new gun

[mtsheron70]

I get 601 with cphp 7.9 and 610 with exact 8.44 how I don't know. This is a new gun

JSB's are probably a better fit in the chamber.  Just that right mix going on I would expect.  Each rifle is different even among same model.

[oldwolf]

The chrony sheet that came with my new HW30S averaged about 645 with JSB 7.9 gr.

[MDriskill]

That speed sounds quite normal to me--Superdomes are not only relatively heavy, but have a really large skirt diameter.  They are definitely not "speed pellets," and usually not the smoothest shooters through the typical tight HW breech chamfer.

My old R7 has a Maccari kit and absolutely LOVES the light JSB 7.3 domes.  The gun is a near-recoilless, laser-accurate, 660 fps delight with that ammo.

[tjk]

A tight seal will always slow a rifle down. If it has to be pushed in with more that your index finger then it is too tight. During the fireing cycle, a properly sized seal will expand sufficiently to attain the correct pressure. Hence the parachute design of the Weihrauch piston seal. If you can't size the vortex seal, replace it with the Oem seal and go with the rest of the kit,... Spring, top hat, etc. I bet those crony numbers will climb back up in no time.

[oldwolf]

The chrony sheet that came with my new HW30S averaged about 645 with JSB 7.9 gr.

Nope, it was with RWS Hobby 7.0gr. My error.

[Mulby]

Just my thoughts, but I think it's important to remember that every gun is different even within same models. My 30s when worn in on factory internals produced an average 6.5fpe. A bit above average from what I can tell. Now with a Pg2 kit including the piston seal I've seen an average of 7.9fpe for about 1500rnds. It's always been a very nice shooting gun, and is even sweeter after the kit.
An under/over sized comp tube or seal, or worse out of round can cap a guns power output. It really depend on too many variables.

[hangmancreek]

from my stock HW30s taken last year when the rifle was about 6 months old;

Chrony tests               HW30S   
Crossman PremMatch 7.9g      596      
Exact RS Diablo RN 7.33g      640   
Milbro RN 7.8g                     578         
Exact Diablo RN 7.9g         612      
Exact Diablo RN 8.5g         572      
H&N Baracuda RN 10.65g      435      
Crossman Prem HP 7.96g      558   
Crossman Hunting Pointed 7.48g   591      
RWS Hobby WC 7.0g         572   
RWS Meisterkugeln  7.0g      632      

[Oldgringo]

from my stock HW30s taken last year when the rifle was about 6 months old;

Chrony tests               HW30S   
Crossman PremMatch 7.9g      596      
Exact RS Diablo RN 7.33g      640   
Milbro RN 7.8g                     578         
Exact Diablo RN 7.9g         612      
Exact Diablo RN 8.5g         572      
H&N Baracuda RN 10.65g      435      
Crossman Prem HP 7.96g      558   
Crossman Hunting Pointed 7.48g   591      
RWS Hobby WC 7.0g         572   
RWS Meisterkugeln  7.0g      632

Just out of curiosity, which pellet proved to be the most accurate?

[Petey]

from my stock HW30s taken last year when the rifle was about 6 months old;

Chrony tests               HW30S   
Crossman PremMatch 7.9g      596      
Exact RS Diablo RN 7.33g      640   
Milbro RN 7.8g                     578         
Exact Diablo RN 7.9g         612      
Exact Diablo RN 8.5g         572      
H&N Baracuda RN 10.65g      435      
Crossman Prem HP 7.96g      558   
Crossman Hunting Pointed 7.48g   591      
RWS Hobby WC 7.0g         572   
RWS Meisterkugeln  7.0g      632

Just out of curiosity, which pellet proved to be the most accurate?

JSB 7.87 or 8.44 are generally the most accurate in the 30s....then again , your mileage may vary.

[hangmancreek]

Several of these pellets shot quite well but if I had to pick the two best it would be the Exact Diablo RN 7.3 gr and the CPHP 7.9 gr.  Because so many other rifles also shoot the CPHP well, this is what I've settled on using in the HW30 most of the time (and what the scope is set for).

[Doctorsolo]

Hello gentlemen, I do not have a chrony, but to contribute, my HW30S has displayed the best accuracy with Beeman FTS 8.6gr pellets. It is about three years old, and this seal fit mine better than the Vortek seal does:
http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251485/1381148.htm

I had the PG2 in mine early on, but switched to the Maccari parts out of sheer curiosity and boredom. The gun does have spring twang with the JM kit, but it is more accurate and it "feels" more powerful, even though I connot verify this. The gun is not hold sensitive at all in any state of tune, I have found.

Regards. Love the "little" HW30S....little being a relative term. Even this rifle dwarfs my CZ 452 .22LR 

[mtsheron70]

from my stock HW30s taken last year when the rifle was about 6 months old;

Chrony tests               HW30S   
Crossman PremMatch 7.9g      596      
Exact RS Diablo RN 7.33g      640   
Milbro RN 7.8g                     578         
Exact Diablo RN 7.9g         612      
Exact Diablo RN 8.5g         572      
H&N Baracuda RN 10.65g      435      
Crossman Prem HP 7.96g      558   
Crossman Hunting Pointed 7.48g   591      
RWS Hobby WC 7.0g         572   
RWS Meisterkugeln  7.0g      632

I just performed a full tune for a customer and the Vortek kit is putting out the JSB 7.87 domed on avg. @ 597 fps!  Similar weight to your pellet.  I assume these are close to a match.

Your numbers seem to be what I could expect if I were a .177 shooter with a multitude of pellets to test.  Thanks for posting.