More Bad Barrels From Crossman

[Jking]

This is what the crown on my 3 yr old 22 looks like. It's always been a great shooter.
Jimmyk

[WNCmotard]

^^You should send crosman that pic to post up as a reference next to the crowning machine. 

[D14Jeff]

sooooo ..... is it safe to order a new 24 inch .177 discovery barrel from crosman to use on my DBO/2289 ? if not , is there a place to get one that will be accurate that i won't have to wait months on (mellon) for a reasonable price ?

[Oldnoob]

sooooo ..... is it safe to order a new 24 inch .177 discovery barrel from crosman to use on my DBO/2289 ? if not , is there a place to get one that will be accurate that i won't have to wait months on (mellon) for a reasonable price ?

If it's a replacement .177 barrel for the Challenger then it should be fine. I understand they are made by Lothar Walther

[Oldnoob]

I had a slight issue with the Walther barrel on my Crosman Challenger. There was a burr in the barrel where the transfer port was drilled.
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It may have shot itself out eventually but I smoothed it with a file and polished the bore and now it seems to be shooting the Crosman Brown Box pellets pretty well. But this is something simple that shouldn't make it into the box for sale.
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  How much you want to bet that Crosman drilled the transfer port and not Walther 

[korps]

I ended up replacing my .22 barrel on my Mrod with a Lothar walter Chocked. Best Mod on my Mrod.

[Stikmkr]

Whats got me upset is i ordered 4 barrels over a year ago. Two of them 24" in .177. It was all they had at the time and I figured I could cut them down. Looked em over when I received them and was really disappointed with the blueing. It was really light in color but figured i could easily strip it and redo it. I also ordered two 14" in .22 at the time. Same story. It was all they had. These looked really good. Nice crowns but I didn't really study the bore so much as was pretty busy that day. Shortly after that I got sick for a bit. Then got caught up in work, life and so on and put the mods on the back burner for awhile. I retired last year and am just now getting back into the mods again. So that leads up to the present.

With all the talk about bad barrels I pulled them out the other day and started really looking at them. Same results. The .22 look ok. They've got some rough spots and scratches but its nothing that I couldn't live with. The .177 are &^^& though with the same crown treatment you guys show here. And one of the barrels has a good sized dent in it about half way down on the outside. Inside they look extremely dirty. Almost like filled with sand. Now I've kept them on the top shelf of my closet since I received them so they should not of had any damage happen by me. That the appearance side of things.

Guys have been talking about loose pellets when they try to push one through so I figured what the heck. Let's try it. All 4 barrels are so loose the pellet only feels the rifling at the breech end. On one of the 14" barrels a CPHP 7.9 literally fell into the breech and almost 2 inches into the barrel before it stopped. When I went to push it the rest of the way through it fell out the end of the barrel. The other 3 barrels took little pressure at all to push the pellets through. Because it's been so long I'm stuck with using them or waiting and ordering more from someplace else.

[FuzzyGrub]

If that dent in the Barrel was on a disco barrel, that is a tooling mark.   I suspect it is used to hold the barrel for the machining of the flats on it.  It was on both .177 and .22 disco barrels I had.

Only 30 day warrantee on parts orders and you have to pay return shipping for exchange or refund.  Still might try calling customer service and explain what happened.  Some days, it just depend on who you talk to.

[westtexasrancher]

Gross barrels.....

[ZiaBeam]

While I worked building single action revolvers in Freedom Wyoming (two Guesses what company)  Mr. C suggested we throw away all piloted crowning tools. We did. Your photos illustrate why.

 Piloted crowning is a cheap, widely used, lazy, quick, marginally adequate and field expedient means of bypassing set-up time, and the need for skilled labor, but highly susceptible to a litany of snares, side effects and shoddy results, most of which are inevitable. Crosman is only as competent as their expert in charge of the dude at the crowning station...et al.,. Lets hope it is more ignorance than indifference.

My 2260 barrel suffered from;

• Fuzzy lands end to end (lightly lapped with JB paste)
• Uneven crowning (re-crowned)
• Rough throat and port (polished smooth)
• Smeared lands in the last inch near muzzle (see below)

One by one these were corrected. The one that helped the most was lopping off an inch to remove the smeared lands. Now it shoots very very well indeed.

[silentbutdeadly]

From my thread I started on my S-Rod Testing..."I got my M-Rod back from Crosman today. They replaced the barrel and sent a target showing a 3+ shot group all within a ragged hole but the distance shot was not noted.  First thing I did was inspect the barrel crown and it has no signs of a pilot type crowning tool being used and initial inspection looks good.  When I get a chance I will shoot the gun and post results."

[oldnamvet]

Whats got me upset is i ordered 4 barrels over a year ago. Two of them 24" in .177. It was all they had at the time and I figured I could cut them down. Looked em over when I received them and was really disappointed with the blueing. It was really light in color but figured i could easily strip it and redo it. I also ordered two 14" in .22 at the time. Same story. It was all they had. These looked really good. Nice crowns but I didn't really study the bore so much as was pretty busy that day. Shortly after that I got sick for a bit. Then got caught up in work, life and so on and put the mods on the back burner for awhile. I retired last year and am just now getting back into the mods again. So that leads up to the present.

With all the talk about bad barrels I pulled them out the other day and started really looking at them. Same results. The .22 look ok. They've got some rough spots and scratches but its nothing that I couldn't live with. The .177 are &^^& though with the same crown treatment you guys show here. And one of the barrels has a good sized dent in it about half way down on the outside. Inside they look extremely dirty. Almost like filled with sand. Now I've kept them on the top shelf of my closet since I received them so they should not of had any damage happen by me. That the appearance side of things.

Guys have been talking about loose pellets when they try to push one through so I figured what the heck. Let's try it. All 4 barrels are so loose the pellet only feels the rifling at the breech end. On one of the 14" barrels a CPHP 7.9 literally fell into the breech and almost 2 inches into the barrel before it stopped. When I went to push it the rest of the way through it fell out the end of the barrel. The other 3 barrels took little pressure at all to push the pellets through. Because it's been so long I'm stuck with using them or waiting and ordering more from someplace else.

I wonder if there are any gunsmiths out there who would rebore them to say .20 and rifle them for you at a nominal price?   I have had that done with blackpowder muzzleloader barrels but then those barrels cost a lot more than AG barrels seem to go for.

[WNCmotard]

From my thread I started on my S-Rod Testing..."I got my M-Rod back from Crosman today. They replaced the barrel and sent a target showing a 3+ shot group all within a ragged hole but the distance shot was not noted.  First thing I did was inspect the barrel crown and it has no signs of a pilot type crowning tool being used and initial inspection looks good.  When I get a chance I will shoot the gun and post results."

Good to hear, and thanks for coming back to give us an update.

[ZiaBeam]

I wonder if there are any gunsmiths out there who would rebore them to say .20 and rifle them for you at a nominal price?   I have had that done with blackpowder muzzleloader barrels but then those barrels cost a lot more than AG barrels seem to go for.

LW barrel would be $112 plus shipping (one way) Total around $127
Bebore and rifle round trip shipping would be approx $30. Unless you could have the bore and re-rifling done for well under $97 it seems the LW barrel would be a much better alternative, especially given their quality.

[WNCmotard]

I wonder if there are any gunsmiths out there who would rebore them to say .20 and rifle them for you at a nominal price?   I have had that done with blackpowder muzzleloader barrels but then those barrels cost a lot more than AG barrels seem to go for.

LW barrel would be $112 plus shipping (one way) Total around $127
Bebore and rifle round trip shipping would be approx $30. Unless you could have the bore and re-rifling done for well under $97 it seems the LW barrel would be a much better alternative, especially given their quality.

Where are you finding LW barrels for that price? And is that bolt on ready to go, or just a barrel blank that needs machined to fit the Mrod?

[ZiaBeam]

http://www.lothar-walther.com/454.php
Yes they are just blanks and the last two I received (this past week) were .630 diameter (one for my Kodiak .25 and one for a spare .22 that is a coin toss as to which gun I will put it on... either a 2260 or a QB79 I'm receiving next week).
Most common diameters are available if you are able to wait for inventory to arrive.

Now here's where I eat crow since the price stated in my previous post begins to balloon...
I feel confident your clearance between the air tube and larger barrel will tolerate being .020" closer (1/2 the diameter increase)
Yours Synrod barrel is likely .437 meaning you'd need to order a .470 barrel and have the breech section turned down while duplicating the port and any other Marauder specific details (proper lead countour and nice crown). The only other thing I see that would need addressing is modding (or sourcing) your barrel band for the up-sized barrel dia. I have never worked on a Marauder but have seen quotes of around $200 for drop in ready LW barrels on other forums, which seems fair given the handling, machining and bluing involved. 

Wish you lived close by. These details are extremely straight forward and easy to effect with the right tools, which I have. If you have a like minded COMPETENT machinist near by and can convince him to do the work for $50, and find a bluing outfit to blue the finished barrel for $25, you'll have a premium barrel for under $200.

BTW if you order from LW they only accept money orders or checks, (no credit cards).
When ordering it is not uncommon to receive only an confirmation, but NO follow up invoice... meaning months later you will need to try again. 
The "work-around" is to submit the request through the web page, and immediately send an email to Woody Woodall requesting confirmation. Ask him to TELL you when your specified size is due in from Europe, and ping him around that time. He is not very good at conversation either in emails or on the phone, but is very efficient once you get him to respond.
Hope this helps. Trust me these barrels are well worth the effort to acquire. I have met with them several times at the annual Shot Show and they are typical European in form, dry, to the point and all business, yet keen to meet your expectations.

[Oldnoob]

http://www.lothar-walther.com/454.php
Yes they are just blanks and the last two I received (this past week) were .630 diameter (one for my Kodiak .25 and one for a spare .22 that is a coin toss as to which gun I will put it on... either a 2260 or a QB79 I'm receiving next week).
Most common diameters are available if you are able to wait for inventory to arrive.

Now here's where I eat crow since the price stated in my previous post begins to balloon...
I feel confident your clearance between the air tube and larger barrel will tolerate being .020" closer (1/2 the diameter increase)
Yours Synrod barrel is likely .437 meaning you'd need to order a .470 barrel and have the breech section turned down while duplicating the port and any other Marauder specific details (proper lead countour and nice crown). The only other thing I see that would need addressing is modding (or sourcing) your barrel band for the up-sized barrel dia. I have never worked on a Marauder but have seen quotes of around $200 for drop in ready LW barrels on other forums, which seems fair given the handling, machining and bluing involved. 

Wish you lived close by. These details are extremely straight forward and easy to effect with the right tools, which I have. If you have a like minded COMPETENT machinist near by and can convince him to do the work for $50, and find a bluing outfit to blue the finished barrel for $25, you'll have a premium barrel for under $200.

BTW if you order from LW they only accept money orders or checks, (no credit cards).
When ordering it is not uncommon to receive only an confirmation, but NO follow up invoice... meaning months later you will need to try again. 
The "work-around" is to submit the request through the web page, and immediately send an email to Woody Woodall requesting confirmation. Ask him to TELL you when your specified size is due in from Europe, and ping him around that time. He is not very good at conversation either in emails or on the phone, but is very efficient once you get him to respond.
Hope this helps. Trust me these barrels are well worth the effort to acquire. I have met with them several times at the annual Shot Show and they are typical European in form, dry, to the point and all business, yet keen to meet your expectations.

I wonder,, would it be easier to turn down the barrel OR Bore out the receiver well on the breech. But then i guess that might open up the breech to much and cause thansfer port issues and the the Sites tube would also have to be bored out.  Though, that might be pretty simple with a drill press and a small honing tool. I guess turning down the barrel WOULD be the best option after all.

[ZiaBeam]

I wonder,, would it be easier to turn down the barrel OR Bore out the receiver well on the breech. But then i guess the sites tube would also have to be bored out.  Though, that might be pretty simple with a drill press and a small honing tool.

I agree. Fit up the breech to accept it as well as the sight and barrel band. Honing tool or a sharp reamer would do to get the fit right like you say.

That's exactly what I planned to do if I use the .630 barrel in the QB79 repeater. Actually intend to sleeve the breech block, and extend the sleeve forward enough to externally thread it for about 1/2". Then I'll turn a barrel nut like an AR15 has, and fit a narrow shank to the barrel OD that the nut captures to press the barrel in... just like an AR. Turning the entire barrel down would be a hateful job without a good steady rest.

[WNCmotard]

Thanks for all the info ZiaBeam. I know that Jim Gaska at Marmot Militia offers drop in Mrod LW barrels for $220 complete with shroud mount provisions. BUT, those are the .630 barrels which would make what is IMO an already heavy rifle into a pig at that point. My guess is he buys the .630 blanks because they are always in stock, no 4-6 week lead time on those. Meh, it's pretty much a paper puncher anyway, so maybe down the road that's the route I'll go, weight be darned.

[D14Jeff]

I wonder if there are any gunsmiths out there who would rebore them to say .20 and rifle them for you at a nominal price?   I have had that done with blackpowder muzzleloader barrels but then those barrels cost a lot more than AG barrels seem to go for.

LW barrel would be $112 plus shipping (one way) Total around $127
Bebore and rifle round trip shipping would be approx $30. Unless you could have the bore and re-rifling done for well under $97 it seems the LW barrel would be a much better alternative, especially given their quality.

the LW challenger barrel looks to be a option for under $100 delivered .

http://www.crosman-air-pistol-owners-forum.com/board/index.php/topic,13790.msg181187.html#msg181187


i called crosman march 26th and the price of part # CH2009-014 is $92.29 + the $4 unlimited S&H . and of course they don't know if that barrel will fit on the 13xx/22xx based pistols . he did say it's the same O.D. but doesn't know if the airport will line up in those pistols . i've got a DBO/2289 (13xx base) carbine . the sleeve under the barrel is a different part number and in the parts PDF look the same (which probably means little to nothing) but if theres a difference i'm thinking nervoustriggers refrigerator water line mod will work it out .

anyone know how long the challenger barrel is ?