Question about a new HW97k

[Diggity95]

Hello,

I got home to find the HW97k was on my doorstep waiting for me so I promptly mounted the wally world centerpoint scope I had laying around on it and proceeded to test it out on a few 25 yard targets out back. My questions are:


I've read many many times that although the trigger on the Tx200 is awesome, the Rekord trigger from Weihrauch is the pinnacle by which all other springer triggers are measured against. I have to say, I feel like maybe I didn't get such a good example of this. While slowly dragging the trigger through the shot cycle, is seemed to not be very smooth. I would pull through the first stage, snug up to the second stage, and rather than having one single smooth motion, the trigger would "catch" or "drag" and my finger would stop and I'd have to increase the pressure to resume the pull through. A few times, it seemed to do this not once, but twice in the same pull. I adjusted the screw behind the trigger almost all the way out until it got to such a light pull that the first stage was almost non existent and the trigger was on the verge of just dangling. Of course adjusting it this loosely helped some but it still didn't feel completely smooth or natural for that matter and I tightened it back up a bit. I compensated for this by having a slightly faster, harder, pull through so that there wasn't any "hitching" but I feel like that may compromise accuracy. I was still able to shoot what I felt were some really impressive one ragged hole groups, but by comparison, the trigger on the TX200 that I got last week seems MUCH smoother, even right of the box. One nice smooth, almost rolling motion all the way through the pull until it breaks like glass. I was expecting it to be a much closer race in the trigger department. Maybe the Rekord trigger needs an extended break in period that the TX did not or maybe I'm not supposed to be pulling it that slowly? Does this seem normal or is there something I am missing or something I can do to improve it? Maybe just needs a drop of oil somewhere?

Second question is that this little ticket, which appears to be chrony numbers, was stapled to the inside of an AirgunsofArizona pamphlet about caring for your new gun. I think I know what it means but I'm hoping someone can give me their take on the numbers just to confirm for me that I myself actually know what they mean. I think it's the FPS, high number, low number, extreme spread, average deviation? A couple of the numbers don't seem to make sense to me though. It looks like they need a new ribbon in their ticker machine. Maybe a "6" and a "2" that are getting cut off? Any help greatly appreciated!!

Kindest regards and thank you in advance!
Cliff

P.S. I absolutely LOVE the HW97K despite the trigger hiccup. I'm figuring worst cast it can either be broken in, adjusted or sent back to swap if something really is wrong. The gun as a whole is just amazing and feels great to shoot. I don't want to stop shooting it. What a confidence builder. 

[palonej]

Very pretty lady there Cliff!!!
Numbers are fps. Here are some numbers from mine.

97 JSB 8.4.    7.3

Lo 894.8.        Lo 947.9
Hi 903.0.         Hi 952.9
Avg 899.4.       Avg 950.7
ES 8.21.           ES 4.93
SD 3.74.           SD 2.00

I would shoot a couple of tins and see if the trigger sweetens up a bit bro. I have a 98 and a 97 with the same trigger and they are both smoooooth!!!

[Kailua]

Hopefully if the chrony numbers are unfavorable it just needs a minor tune and not a bad compression tube.  Noted by Air Rifle Headquarters.
http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251488/43397.htm

[Diggity95]

Hopefully if the chrony numbers are unfavorable it just needs a minor tune and not a bad compression tube.  Noted by Air Rifle Headquarters.
http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251488/43397.htm

I'm not sure if they're favourable or unfavourable. if I'm reading them correctly I think the shot string reads:

869
870
865
872
842

So that would give me an extreme spread of thirty, an average of 863, and a standard deviation of 12? And it looks like 4 of the five shots were within seven FPS of each other with one "flyer" maybe? Kinda wish I had a chrony now to try it at home. I've attached a pic where I filled in what seem to be the missing parts of the numbers.

The RWS basics are a 7.0 grain pellet and it seems they are shooting in the mid to upper 800's which gives me 11.58FPE.  Does anyone know if this is normal for a stock HW97K? Any insight greatly appreciated!

Kindest regards,
Cliff

[nced]

P.S. I absolutely LOVE the HW97K despite the trigger hiccup. I'm figuring worst cast it can either be broken in, adjusted or sent back to swap if something really is wrong.
The Rekord triggers can come from the factory a bit "un-adjusted"....perhaps "layer proofed". Even over a decade ago when I got my HW77 the second stage of the trigger had too much creep for my taste. The solution was to remove the trigger guard and tweak the "forbidden torx screw" in front of the trigger blade to reduce the amount of sear engagement. I believe that this screw is deliberately hidden because impropper adjusting can make the trigger unreliable. Here is a pic of an old Rekord trigger group I have marked to show the "forbidden screw".

By the way.....IMHO, the Rekord trigger isn't any better than the TX200 trigger and I know folks that prefer the TX trigger over the Rekord. Actually, it SEEMS that Air Arms copied the Rekord and "improved" the internal geometry. Anywhoo......I've been able to adjust all my Rekords to my personal satisfaction simply by CAREFULLY using the two adjustment screws. While the Rekord trigger can cam made to break crisply, it is a SPORTER trigger and NOT a match trigger. IMHO, you're getting into trouble by setting it too light. For my initial Rekord trigger adjustment I hold the un-cocked gun vertical, loosen the large adjusting screw till the trigger blade visibly falls, then I tighten the adjusting screw till the trigger blade raises to a stop and then turn the screw one more turn. A bit of caution here, the adjusting screw locking mechanism is simply the factory twisting of the tab the screw goes through. This twisting warps the threaded mounting tab hole a bit so the adjusting screw is bound a bit preventing it from loosening with recoil. If you adjust the large screw too many times the aluminum threads of the adjusting screw "wears in" and the screw can get loose causing it to "walk loose" over time causing it to change the trigger pull. I've had this happen with some of my earlier R9s "in the beginning" when I was twinstin' that adjustin' screw several times a shootin' session. I found a rather quick and easy fix for a loose adjustment screw is a drop of super glue after the preferred adjustment. LOL.....don't get any super glue INSIDE the trigger block.......it WILL create issues (guess how I know  ).
Perhaps the "Rekord Tweakin'" web page will be of use..............
http://www.airguns.net/general_rekord_trigger.php   
Oh by the way, the new HW97 I recently tuned had the trigger adjusted PERFECTLY for my taste. I don't know if the owner had previously adjusted the trigger but I suspect that he did OFTEN because the trigger adjusting screw was very easy turning. With the new Rekords I've had  the screw was VERY tight and care had to be taken to keep the screwdriver blade from burring the slot of the aluminum screw. 

The gun as a whole is just amazing and feels great to shoot. I don't want to stop shooting it. What a confidence builder. 
When I bought my HW77 many years ago I preferred the ergonomics over the TX200 so I bought the "77". Mechanically I believe that the TX200 has a better construction, but the "77" open loading port, the lack of the clickety clackity anti-beartrap the TX had, plus the offset barrel of the "77" which allowed the scope to be mounted closer to the bore won me over.

Both the TX200 and the HW97 are excellent choices!

[Diggity95]

NCED you are a life saver!!!

I was shooting this morning and becoming rather dismayed at how distracting the creep in the second stage was. After a while I came in and saw your post. I went to the link you provided and followed the directions on how to adjust the "forbidden screw" and after several times of taking the stock off to adjust the screw a little at a time, that annoying creep is completely gone and the trigger breaks off perfectly cleanly now and I almost feel like I can't miss. My groups tightened up considerably and the phrase "tack driver" kept going through my mind as I was shooting.   

I've got one of those Gamo spinner toys set up at 40 yards and I don't know if you've ever seen how tiny the spinner targets are, but they're about and inch by an inch and I can pop those things all day at the 40 yard mark now that I've got the trigger set proper and figured out that the gun likes to be held out under the end of the stock rather than in front of the trigger guard.

Thanks so much again for taking the time to help, I was considering calling AOA up and asking about exchanging the gun. Now I don't ever want to part with it 

Kindest regards,
Cliff

[mtsheron70]

Glad it worked out because I was getting ready to post my HW97k's Rekord is without a doubt the best trigger I have felt.  It has the right amount of stage 1 travel then the stop and when pulled slightly more a good crisp break like a very thin glass rod!

Does not get any better than this.  The TX trigger which I have had the chance as well to experience is just as good.  Now my T06 on the 56TH is very close but not a good crispness like the Rekord.

Go shoot that baby and break her in!

[limbshaker]

Take Ed's advice on adjusting the Torx screw. That will get rid of the grittiness and drag after you hit the second stage. When adjusted properly, when you hit the second stage "wall" the trigger will fire when you apply enough pressure, but the trigger wont "pull/travel" any farther if that makes sense.

Shoot some heavier pellets through it and i bet those numbers will look better. The Hobby's probably weren't sealing well in the barrel. They not so good in my .177 HWs. Try a Crosman Premier or a RWS Superdome and see how she does. Nice looking gun!

Oh, and if by some stretch of the imagination you decide you need a compression tube, I have a new piston, tube, and seal with MAYBE 100 shots on them I'd hook you up with cheap if you need em (which I doubt) but things do happen.

[Diggity95]

  It has the right amount of stage 1 travel then the stop and when pulled slightly more a good crisp break like a very thin glass rod!

Now that I have mine set like that, your description makes perfect sense.

When adjusted properly, when you hit the second stage "wall" the trigger will fire when you apply enough pressure, but the trigger wont "pull/travel" any farther if that makes sense.

Again, now that I've experienced it, the description makes sense. I knew something wasn't right but couldn't figure out how to say it with such little trigger experience otherwise.

Shoot some heavier pellets through it and i bet those numbers will look better. The Hobby's probably weren't sealing well in the barrel. They not so good in my .177 HWs. Try a Crosman Premier or a RWS Superdome and see how she does.

I'm shooting H&N FTT 8.64 and JSB exact 8.44 but I don't have a chrony to test the numbers. Seems to shoot ok though and after doing some reading online it seems that 11 to 12 FPE is pretty typical from a stock HW97k right out of the box.

Nice looking gun!

Thank you! I love the way it looks too! 

Thank you guys so much for the help!

[MarkBrumbaugh]

Its basically a 12 fpe gun, which will improve with a lube tune and time.  I think you are good. 
I did put a Vortek PG2 in mine last fall, after ten years, and now get 13.3 fpe and one hole at 18 yards.  Standard deviation with CPH is 5 fps.

With my stock spring after a month of shooting I was getting 12.8 fpe with CPL's and 12.4 with CPH.  With 8.6 grain Beeman FTS I was getting 810 fps.

[nced]

"I'm shooting H&N FTT 8.64 and JSB exact 8.44 but I don't have a chrony to test the numbers. Seems to shoot ok though and after doing some reading online it seems that 11 to 12 FPE is pretty typical from a stock HW97k right out of the box."

Humm....the HW97 I recently tuned for a friend of my brother was shooting 7.9 grain CPLs at 930fps straight from the box after a bit of break-in for about 15fpe. After the tune using a tight fitted guide and an oring sealed piston cap the LOWEST I could get the velocity with the factory spring was CPLs @ 920fps.

I was a bit surprised that there wasn't much difference (velocity wise) between the factory sealed HW97 and after the installation of the oring sealed piston cap. Then I noticed that the design of the new HW97 (and I assume others) piston seal was changed as shown here.........

Notice the new HW piston seal on the left compared to the older versions on the right. Seems that HW is indeed reworking some of their internal components rather than simply sticking with what they've been using for years!