Problem with BNM complete kit on Disco

[gnef]

Well, I am a bit frustrated right now. I have left a voicemail and an email form from the website, so hopefully they will contact me soon.

I installed the kit using tpatner's videos, which made things very easy.

Things worked well for a while, and I was shooting pretty tight groups after getting sighted in (this took the first twenty shots in total). I decided to do some chrony testing to check velocities, and on the 37th shot, the probe got stuck a bit.

I was able to move it enough to remove the magazine, and then back forward to remove the retaining screw.

After that, everything went downhill. I tried to remove the probe, by gradually rotating and pulling it, and was able to get it out some, but then I applied too much force to the handle, and sheered it off the probe. Now it is really stuck. Something seems to have galled.

Any ideas other than wait for BNM to get back to me? Has anyone had any experiences with getting replacements from them?

At this point I plan to uninstall the entire kit, put it back to stock form, and wait for BNM to let me know what to do. Needless to say, after $200+, I am a bit frustrated.

Wait, I just realized I can't remove the kit, the probe is blocking the screw for the back plug. I am quite literally stuck.

[ezman604]

Sergio is a member here and will take care of any issues.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=profile;u=4582
Drop him an email for the quickest response. Let us know if you need any assistance. Be patient, he will take care of you!!!
And I have two of his kits with NO issues what so ever.

[johninthecamper]

sergio is a stand up guy.you will have better luck calling

[ezman604]

LOL
Yep, he's already handling it.
I dropped him an email and a link to this thread. By the time he replied, he had already gotten replacement parts on the way.

[gnef]

I did get an email from him, and he assured me a new breech was on the way. I hope he is including a new probe and handle, and maybe some spare screws, just in case.

I am just concerned now though, as it was working fine for a while, and then things went wrong very quickly.

Any suggestions on getting the galled probe out? It is stuck there pretty good, enough for me to sheer off the handle. I am thinking putting the back end of the probe in a vise, and then hammer the breech to get the probe out so that I can access the necessary screws. I plan on shipping this back to him, but I need to be able to get it off first.

Maybe the tolerances were too tight on my particular kit, the lemon?

[ezman604]

Just guessing, but thinking the screw that goes into the probe used to cock the hammer has worked loose. It's dragging on the hammer. It does have the rear probe with cocking handle?



If so, were you able to get it to move rearward ANY before the handle snapped off? I would suggest carefully taking a punch and lightly tapping the probe back forward. Try ro get it fully seated again. Try to rotate the probe to the cocked position and see if you can access the retainer/cocking bolt. Try to tighten it or remove it. See if any of that works.
Don't slam it, but work carefully and easy with the tapping and tweaking.

[gnef]

Yes, mine is the ambidextrous version with the rear probe.

I had been able to move it all the way forward and rotate it so that I could remove that retaining hex screw from the forward side of the probe. Then I was able to move it back some by rotating the probe using the handle. It became progressively more difficult to move backwards and ultimately the handle sheered off.

I am hesitant to tap it back forward because then I will have less to be able to hold on to.

I will probably soak it in pb blaster and try the vise method, or using a c-clamp to see if I can press out the probe. If that fails, I will take a dremel with a cutting tool and cut a slot along the top to relieve pressure. Cutting the top will be my last resort.

I just really need to remove the probe so that I can disassemble the breech so that when the replacement comes I will be ready to install and test it.

[woogie_man]

Is there any way you can dissassemble the rifle and slide the guts out the front end? 

If not, can you take out what you can and see if you can spot where it is binding up.  Would be better than tearing up more than you have to on the lower section.

[gnef]

The most I can do with how the probe is stuck is remove the stock and the shroud. Everything else requires the probe to be removed first.

There are two screws beneath the probe that screw into the action. The barrel has the transfer port in it, so I can't remove the barrel until I remove the entire breech.

Hopefully I'll get this figured out tonight!

[ezman604]

Possibly a trip to Lowe's or Home Depot for a wooden dowel rod 3-4' long. Same diameter as bore. Run it all the way in and carefully tap that to drive probe out?
With the retainer screw removed. Just thinking out loud. Anything to keep you from having to cut the breech assembly.

[gnef]

That's an interesting idea, but considering I sheered off the handle, I don't think I would be able to transfer enough force from a wooden down less than .177 in diameter.

I am hoping that a soak in PB Blaster and using the c clamp will work, then I will try the vise, then I will cut if needed. I'll think about it throughout the day though, and if anything else comes to mind, I'll give it a try before cutting.

[woogie_man]

Thining like you Dave..... what about heating up the assembly to expand the part?  If you have the handle off itself, what about drilling a hole into the back of the bolt, then tapping it and threading a bolt into it.  Giving you something larger and stronger to pull on.

I am sure it is going to be something stupid, atleast that is what always seems to happen to me.

[Norm_m]

Just an idea but if you remove the set screw on the opposite side of the probe handle that locks the probe handle in place you should then be able to unscrew the remaining piece of the probe handle. If not drill it out or possibly even drill a new hole ahead of that one. Once the hole is open insert the largest alllen wrench that will pass through the hole to make a T handle on the probe and see by putting even pressure on each side of the probe will let you pull the probe all the was out.

Another idea is to follow D Ez's idea of a wood dowel but to use a steel rod that fits loosely in the bore. I know I am going to hear NEVER PUT A STEEL ROD DOWN THE BORE but as a last resort and done correctly there should be no problem. Just be sure it fits loosely into the bore and round the edges of the rod that is going into the bore. With rounded edges and loose fit it will not do any harm. Once down the bore and against the probe it lightly to see if that will solve your problem.

You are not the only person that has run into this problem as one of my customers that I installed the BNM breech for ran into the same issue. His was not as bad as yours as the probe did not get stuck but he had to apply so much force to pull the probe all the way back that he ended up with huge blister on his finger. He received a new breech from Sergio and still had the problem but not as bad. After a little use the issue went away.

Good luck

Norm

[ezman604]

My mind was clicking as I read some of your responses. Hey, it's 1 degree outside here, my mind is slow today...LOL.
Probe is probably trashed anyway, so I like the other ideas if there is enough of it exposed. CAREFULLY drill a hole all the way through the probe if possible. Insert an Allen wrench to make a T handle as advised. Work and wiggle it out. Cover your stock with a heavy cloth, painters tape or something to protect it while you work.

[QVTom]

If other methods don't work go for the Dremmel.

The Dremmel cut off wheels slice thru Aluminum like butter.  If you have accepted the fact that the breech is fodder, just run a slice down the length and use a small blade screwdriver to open up if necessary.   Just make sure to protect the good parts against grinding dust.

Tom

[gnef]

Well, the vise and hammer worked quite well, and only took a couple minutes. I used a brass hammer, so the damage wasn't too bad to the breech, but it definitely deformed some.

I disassembled everything, and now will just wait for the new breech to come in. The shroud and baffles remained undamaged. I did keep them on while hammering to ensure that the barrel didn't get whipped around and bent.

I am really just glad that I was able to get it torn down fairly easily. I thought about reassembling it in stock form and putting the TKO LDC back on, but I expect the new breech to come within a few days, or by early next week (with the temperatures as they are right now, I am not sure if Sergio was able to get it out today, and even if he was, I don't know if USPS would've been able to do anything with it). I'll send another email to check though.

Thanks for all the help!

[woogie_man]

Can you get some pics of the damaged parts? 

Would help others having the same problem.

[rjorge]

I had the same problem with my BNM breach and probe. I used an old Crossman barrel from a AS-2250-XT to push/hammer the probe out. Be very careful, the barrel can get stuck the same way if a burr is formed from the set screws tightening the barrel down. This one is a PITA to remove.

[gnef]

The new breech is on its way, hopefully to be delivered tomorrow!

Here are some pictures I just took:

The damage to the top rail part is where I used the hammer to remove the probe (probe fixed in vise).



The next few are of the damage on the inside of the breech (breech is upside down), where the probe galled.




Here is the probe. The triangluar shaped indentation is due to the vise. You can see where the handle sheered off.


This is the front of the probe where it looks to have galled.


More pictures of the damage to the breech, different parts in focus.

[woogie_man]

Really hard to see in the pics what would have caused the issue.
Don't get me wrong, you can really see where the problem was at.  But seeing what caused the problem is eluding me at this point.  Was there a bolt or something that was over tightened and caused a "smush" of the probe causing the tollerance issue?

Did something just not get polished at the shop before getting shipped?