Benjamin Trail NP XL 1100

[amb5500c]

Howdy fellers. I'm new to this site but have been nosing around in here and like what I've seen. A few months ago I bought a Benjamin Trail NP XL 1500 (177 cal) and after several hundred shots with at least 6 different pellets I called the Crosman customer service for info and advice. The accuracy was horrible with most pellets and almost tollerable with one. The best one by far was the Gamo Raptor gold. It grouped milk jug lid size groups at 50 feet. But I didn't like them because they were so loud (super-sonic). I had several chats with the C/S dept. at Crosman and even sent them copies of the targets I shot. They agreed that the gun should shoot better. I eventually sent it back to them. They agreed to replace it and gave me the option of changing to the 22 cal. So I did. I am having the same accuracy problems with it. After doing some research, I learned that everybody hated these triggers as much as me, and I ordered the grtIII from Charliedatuna. Yesterday I installed it and just about ran to try it out. I missed a 2ft X 2ft cardboard box from 50 ft. I moved up to 25 ft. and missed it again. I moved up to 10 ft. and hit the box way down low. I started twisting on the scope and shooting and twisting some more. I ran out of adjustment on the scope and was still about a foot low. I took the gun back apart thinking that something wasn't seated right. No help. Any advice? Please?

[crowpopper]

first take off scope and optically center it(max out 1 way count clicks til it maxes out the other and then put it in the middle number of max clicks, for both elevation and Windage)
then swap the fron mount to the rear and try again
if it is still off then maybe something got knocked loose while installing trigger?
ive had guns just need mounts swapped around to put em on target
another option could be shim it with some film negative  or get adjustable mounts

but i am assuming this is a recent problem after you installed trigger?

[amb5500c]

yes it happened immediately after the trigger install. I am gunna try to work on it in the morning and see what I can come up with. I have been sitting here for hours reading all kind of stuff on this site that I didnt know about these guns. They seem to be more trouble than they are worth. I grew up shooting benjamin pumps and hitting anything I shot at. Still got 2 of them.

[Cooney]

Hmm doesn't seem like the trigger install would cause that much movement on the POI, but I don't know. I would try changing the front ring to the rear and the rear ring to the front and see it that fixes it, this happened to me with the new scope that I put on my XL1100. I changed scope and rings and ran out of adjustment as well then I swapped the rings around and all was well.....hope this helps.....Jerry

[Rocker1]

The trigger installation has absolutely nothing to do with the poi . unless you bumped the scope or mounts in a way that has cause them to be off.that would be like saying your tail light went bad  so your front tire went flat  nothing to do with each other. These new xl series ags are no where like any of the old ags of yesteryear they are something that has to be learned to shoot hold technic. pellets. whats so bad everyone of them are different from each other but once you master one there is no turning back. And for sure they are scope killers. Thanks  David

[uncle paulie]

Are you using the scope and rings that came with the gun? Hard to think that two different rifles would have the same problem from the factory. You might want to try bench resting the rifle at 20 ft. or so and "barrel sight" it by eye and see where it goes. If it's close to the mark, the problem is in the scope or mount. You can also look  down the the side of the rifle to see if the barrel and scope seem to be parallel and if the barrel is in line with the rest of it. If you were a foot low at 10 ft. the difference would be quite obvious.

Good Luck.

pv

PS- also check to make sure both scope mount screws are fully seated in the scope stop grooves.

[airiscool]

I agree, putting a tuna trigger in shouldn't affect how it had been sighted in,..... unless, as mentioned, the scope got bumped. However, I think for it to be shooting that low, the scope would have realy needed to be wacked hard.

Check the breach opening area. If something even small got stuck in the breach joint, the barrel may not be locking up fully as it had before. That would have the barrel shooting low compared to the scope's sight line.

Paul

[amb5500c]

Great info, but the scope was not bumped at all. I take pains to protect it as with all my rifle scopes. I realize that the trigger install had nothing to do with the drastic poi change. But was wondering if anybody else ever had a similar experience and how they corrected it. All shots taken at paper targets with this gun have been from a Caldwell lead sled so I could hold absolutely still while sighting in. Before the trigger install, I had almost useable groups at 75' shooting Crosman pointed and Benjamin PCP Discovery HP pellets. Both are 14.3 gr. I guess I have to order some others to try since Bass Pro Shop dont carry much of a selection. I really need this gun to be as accurate as possible because anything less will drive me crazier than I already am. Once I get this current problem corrected, I will probably be hitting you fellers up for info on all this tuning and such that I been reading about. But for right now, I'm fixing to swap the rings around and recenter the scope and will report back with my results.
Thanks,
Richard

[ezman604]

Richard, welcome to GTA Forums. Glad you found us and joined up. The folks have given you some suggestions to try, I'll just chime in with my thoughts too. First off, you do need to start with the scope set as close to optical center as possible. But, BE VERY CAREFUL while making this adjustment. Don't run the adjustment all the way out and keep cranking. Gingerly do this.
You could damage the scope even more if you over crank the turrets. When you start feeling resistance, I'd stop there and count that as the end point. Count the clicks from end to end and split the difference to get close to center.
DO swap the mounts as suggested. It sounds a little strange but has been proven to work.
After centering and swapping rings, fire it at 10 yards or so. If it hits within say 6-8" of the POI, the sccope mount can be shimmed to bring it in. If it's still more than 12" off at 10 yards, there's another problem somewhere. Either a bad set of mounts, scope rail not centered or the scope is bad. But like the folks said, having the same issue with two different new rifles is unusual. Not impossible but not likely. And these magnum airguns DO take some getting use to. And ditch the Raptors in this gun. They are WAY too light to be shooting consistantly and accurately in the XL. You need to stick with ammo that is a minimum of 14gr. Mine shoots H&N Crow Magnum 18.21gr very accurately. Lighter rounds will give the sonic pop over 1080fps and will cause the rounds to tumble, sending them anywhere but where you intended it to go.
Again, welcome. Post often and post pictures. Keep us informed on your progress.
Happy Shooting!!!!
Dave
 

[Cheap Shot]

If the scope rings have the "non-slip" tape in them the scope might not be bottomed out in the rings yet.  Happened to me and I had to keep retightening the rings as I shot the gun.  Finally got to where they stayed tight and I figured out what must have happened.

They've stayed tight for some time now but I had to torque them a bit more than I'm used to.

[airiscool]

".................DO swap the mounts as suggested. It sounds a little strange but has been proven to work. ..........."

Doesn't sound strange to me at all Dave.

The Leapers 30mm one piece mount I got for the Leapers mini swat I bought, had two layers of tape in the bottom of one ring, and only one layer in the other. I didn't know until I turned the mount around after installing a larger diameter stop pin. Then the POI was waaaayyy off !!!

Swaped the extra layer of tape to the other ring and POI was almost back where it had been.

Paul.

[amb5500c]

Well, here's what I got so far. I took off the scope and started counting clicks. WOW! There were 400 on windage and 450 on elevation. I centered it up and swapped the mounts. Before I swapped them I measured them with a micrometer. They were the same. For those that asked about the tape. There was none from the factory and I used none. I remounted the scope using levels. Bore sighted it . And the laser showed the same extremely low poi. I had to shim the rear mount nearly the thickness of a U.S. quarter. Laser still showed low, but not too bad. Didn't want to add more shim. It was starting to look rediculous. I got everything put back together and went for a test drive. It took a whole bunch of shooting and scope moving, but I got it hitting a mayonaise jar lid size group from 25 yards. Shooting from my caldwell lead sled. I know that not worthy big time, but it's back to a starting point. The gun was shooting better than this before I installed the trigger. I love the new trigger and I know that it has nothing at all to do with the problem. What bothers me most is not having a clue about what caused the problem. And why all of a sudden my scope needs major shimming when it was just fine minutes before. Anyway, now I reckon I need to try and order a pellet sampler and try to figure out what this gun likes to shoot. I did clean the barrell while I had the gun down so maybe I'll shoot a bunch of pellets through it before I order more. But I can't tell you strongly enough; It bothers the heck out of me to shoot at something and not hit it where I ought to. That's it for now.  I'll keep yall informed.

[crowpopper]

get adjustable mounts
shimming much more than a matchbook thickness is going to cause scope issues
with a hard recoiling gun like the 1100  it will surely cause more problems in the future
i would also look and see if the bbl is loose or the hinge is loose just as a quick check

[Korak]

I'll take a chance and say, stop benching with the Lead Sled. Try a different prop for the front of the gun and rest the forend on your hand using the artillery hold

[airiscool]

I'll take a chance and say, stop benching with the Lead Sled. Try a different prop for the front of the gun and rest the forend on your hand using the artillery hold

What I was thinking too !

Shooting with the gun on a rest may work with some powder burners, but none of my AG's shoot worth a darn unless I'm holding the stock and I'm the one leaning on the shooting rest, not the gun.

You can also try ....
As others have found works with their Xl's, rest your cheek firmly on the stock. If your eye is not looking right in the center of the scope use a stock pad, or you won't get consistant groups no mater how else you hold the gun (mine needed a half inch thick pad). Pull the gun firmly into your shoulder like you were firing a high powered rifle.  Hold the front of the stock right at the checkering.  Try variations of that by slightly moving your front hand and shooting more groups.  

Ignor the first 8-10 pellets fired after you switch pellet brands/types. It's not uncommon that you have to fire a bunch of pellets for the barrel to settle down to the new pellet types.  

Keep experimenting with differant pellets and differant holds, if the gun is capable of accuracy, sometimes it can take awhile, but, eventually you'll find what it likes best.

My Xl did shotgun groups with everything, until I found that it liked to be held like a high powered powder burner, and I shot Predators, then it was like a totally differant gun. Ragged one-hole groups at 30 yards. If I don't pull the gun into my shoulder firmly each time, the groups open up. The less firm, the more open the groups !!!

Now that the gun is worn in more, the groups with other pellets and holds are not as extream as they first were, but still not the best it can do - as in, firm hold with Preds !

Paul

[Cooney]

Take it from someone that learned the hard way GET RID OF THE REST they work for powder burners but not air guns, also used the artillery hold it works best as these guys have stated.....Jerry

[amb5500c]

I have been trying to post pictures of some targets for yall to see but I cant figure out how. Pellets are on paper now and grouping smaller than my fist. Nowhere near accurate enough for me to feel confident hunting with. Of what I have, Crosman Pointed 14.3 gr. shoot best. A close 2nd. is the Benjamin PCP Discovery HP 14.3 gr. The Daisy Precision Max pointed and the RWS Superpoint Extra 14.5 gr. didn't even hit paper. I live in Louisiana. Does anybody know of a competent Airgun guru in the greater Baton Rouge area?

[airiscool]

Have you tried heavier pellets?  Alot of the XL owners report good results with pellets in the 16-18 grain range.

Mine loves Predators and a few other guys have reoprted good results with them. Others are having good results with the H&N Field Target Trophy's, and still others like the JSB Jumbo heavies.

Paul

[amb5500c]

No I havent tried anything heavire than 14.5 gr. I know of nowhere in the area that has more than just a few kinds. They all sell the same stuff. I am planning on ordering a pellet sampler I saw somewhere on Pyramid.com. I need an airgun specialty shop nearby where I can go and get stuff personally. Maybe I'm oldfashioned but I prefer to do business face to face. That way I can look at stuff and maybe handle it  and make a more informed decision on my purchace. But I have found a few advantages of buying online.

[crowpopper]

check local gun shops, my local shop will order any pellets i need
prices are not bad espcially since i dont get charged shipping
it isnt bad if im only orderin a tin
if im going multi tin i go to pyramyd