Author Topic: American Airgunner Round Table - Gas Pistons (Read 7153 times))

D14Jeff · « **on:** July 20, 2013, 02:16:18 AM »

figured others would find this interesting

they even mention the new umarex Reaxis gas piston

Bullit · « **Reply #1 on:** July 20, 2013, 11:18:29 AM »

Jeff, THANKS for posting that segment. I don't get that on TV, so it was very nice of you. Please keep it up. It was good to see Tom looking fit

Very good discussion.

ezman604 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 20, 2013, 11:29:12 AM »

Very interesting...especially the final comments.

Geoff · « **Reply #3 on:** July 20, 2013, 12:04:53 PM »

Interesting, long and I skipped places however it was interesting to hear. thanks for posting

D14Jeff · « **Reply #4 on:** July 20, 2013, 12:16:27 PM »

here ya go bullit

http://www.youtube.com/user/AmericanAirgunner?feature=watch

i was surprised too ez ...... rick seems to have had enough of the gas pistons fail to make him question their durability in the under $300 guns .

jessered · « **Reply #5 on:** July 20, 2013, 12:39:46 PM »

It was interesting and I did find it surprising about the gas spring vs mechanical spring BUT..............

Everyone will have a different opinion on this but I did not agree with the recommendation from all three stated that you should leap into airguns using a spring gun. Or at least they should have qualified that statement some.

I started with pb's when I was 10. Learned to shoot at 1 MOA or less when I was in my mid twenties. Jump forward another 30 years and bought a springer and it was an exercise in futility. I KNOW I can shoot better then this. As far as I know, none of the manufactures have an instruction manual with the gun explaining hold sensitivity or explaining the artillery hold. I've had a couple of Marine marksmen try shooting the springer and you can see the disgust when the pellet does not go where they KNOW they were aiming at. It is a really easy way to drive a new person away from airguns and they will never try again.

Conversely, I can hand over my 2240 or prod and see the sparkle in their eyes when they shoot a sub MOA group. THEN they start asking the questions and new airgunners are created.

There are springers that people can start with that will not feel alien in a shooter's hands. But I think it is overly broad to just make the blanket statement that every shooter should start with "a" springer airgun.

ezman604 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 20, 2013, 01:49:13 PM »

What I have found and learned over the years backs up some most of the statements made in the round table discussion. I agree with them and the statement of starting with a springer. BUT, it needs a little more understanding than just go grab a springer and start learning. I started pb shooting at a VERY early age. I've collected and shot guns all my life, so far. I have always considered myself a very good shot with pb equipment. When I picked up my first modern airgun, a Turkish made Powerline 1000, it turned my shooting skills upside down. I would not hit a bull in the butt with a bass fiddle, as they say. LOL
After reading here and a couple of other forums, I started paying attention to the hold and every other aspect of the shooting cycle. I soon developed a skill at accurately shooting a springer. The result in my practice with a springer made me a MUCH better shot with anything I pick up now. What habits I developed because of springer shooting is paying a LOT more attention to details. I adjust the hold, study target acquisition (focus on the crosshairs and NOT the target), pay more attention to trigger finger position and pull, watch my breathing and pulse and concentrate on follow-through. These are things that are still important but less of a role with any other airguns like it does with a spring piston equipped airgun.
So I agree that to make yourself a much better shot with ANYTHING, start and learn to shoot a springer. It's tough and if you START with a springer with the idea that you will be a marksman, then you will most definitely be very disappointed and discouraged. Having the knowledge beforehand about springers and the unique challenges learning to shoot accurate consistantly gives you a head start. Too bad this information is not more wide spread. But that's our job as airgunners, to promote our sport and help others enjoy it as we do.

Bullit · « **Reply #7 on:** July 20, 2013, 01:57:16 PM »

I think Rick and Tom did a pretty good job of pointing out the problems with QC in the building of the Gas Pistons. An old contention by some of us here. Also glad to hear some of their "mythbusting" statements, against the claims that Crosman put out in the onset of their "NP vs Springer" marketing.

D14Jeff THANKS SO MUCH FOR THE LINK BUD!

D14Jeff · « **Reply #8 on:** July 20, 2013, 03:13:18 PM »

i tried a trail NP AW last year and did not like the jump/recoil or the long firm pumping stroke ...... even if i could have gotten accurate with it . took it back after a 500 tin or CPHP's and i still could only hit a egg at 15 yards 1 or 2 times out of ten . i got a 2100 and i can almost hit anything within 25ish yards pretty easy . the thing i don't like about the 2100 is it's plastic/kiddie feel .

zero recoil is very easy to shoot

QVTom · « **Reply #9 on:** July 20, 2013, 04:16:19 PM »

Lots could be said about the content and its accuracy........ I found the whole conversation to be very disjointed , somewhat sleepy and could have been edited down to a third of the time. I guess that is what happens at a round table

Tom

eeler1 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 20, 2013, 04:49:25 PM »

They might have noted that virtually no shooters in any airgun competitions shoot a gas-ram. Lots of springers, though, but most heavily modded or tuned.

WHich is why they kept trying to avoid a 'one or the other' choice, since there is more to it than that. My first 'adult' springer couldn't hit 700 fps, but was deadly accurate no matter how I held it. That was a really good 1st airgun choice. A 1500 fps nitro piston in .177, maybe not so good of a choice. Still, no gas rams.

Bullit · « **Reply #11 on:** July 20, 2013, 05:14:32 PM »

The last question asked their choice. All 3 chose the same...

QVTom · « **Reply #12 on:** July 20, 2013, 05:36:39 PM »

The only quality maker with a gas spring was Theoben, there just aren't any quality gas spring guns to choose from. I don't think it is a reflection on the technology, just an unwillingness for the quality makers update their product lines. The spring gun is frozen in time!

Tom

chuckinohio · « **Reply #13 on:** July 20, 2013, 05:40:33 PM »

An interesting video, I enjoyed it.

Aside from the occasional diamond in the rough, it appears to come back to "you get what you pay for".

Oh, and Rick Eustler says "Buy more RWS Mod.34 rifles".!!

Quote from: QVTom on July 20, 2013, 05:36:39 PM

The only quality maker with a gas spring was Theoben, there just aren't any quality gas spring guns to choose from. I don't think it is a reflection on the technology, just an unwillingness for the quality makers update their product lines. The spring gun is frozen in time!

Tom

Do you think that is due to them not wanting to mess with what has proven to work in the past, or maybe they are scared of die hard fans bailing out because they broke with tradition?

QVTom · « **Reply #14 on:** July 20, 2013, 05:56:45 PM »

Quote

Do you think that is due to them not wanting to mess with what has proven to work in the past, or maybe they are scared of die hard fans bailing out because they broke with tradition?

I think those are both valid reason then add on the extra cost. A wire spring is very inexpensive for a volume manufacturer to procure, the gas piston by nature with its ground rods, seal packs, and high pressure casing is costly. With increasing cost of labor, regulation and materials they may feel that they just can't add another 100$ to the cost of the gun to do it right.

Tom

Bullit · « **Reply #15 on:** July 21, 2013, 02:02:59 PM »

It's all about Crosman's desired profit. You'd be surprised what an extra $15-$25, (in the manufacturer's hand), would do for the quality of the gas strut guns. They also realize (I'm sure), there is a small market in part sales, so they aren't gonna cut that arm of profits off. Heck, they may only have $8.00 in that strut/piston assy...wouldn't surprise me.

GTA-Airgunner · « **Reply #16 on:** July 21, 2013, 07:13:31 PM »

Hey there Guys, Rick from AirgunWeb here.

I can't express how much fun it was to get together with American Airgunner to work on these round table segments. This was certainly one of the more interactive ones and it was a ton of fun. Please keep watching the show and express your support if you like it. If you don't like it or have some constructive feedback, please let us know as we only want to improve as we go. Hopefully we can see a 2014 season get the green light. I can't wait to get back to work with these guys!

Cheers!

Rick
AirgunWeb.com

Bullit · « **Reply #17 on:** July 21, 2013, 07:20:42 PM »

Good to hear from you Rick.
Hey! YOU don't be a stranger. It goes both ways!

PS: How many roundtables did you guys do? Any hint of the topic listing so we can look forward to them?

GTA-Airgunner · « **Reply #18 on:** July 21, 2013, 07:31:10 PM »

I lost count of how many we did.. 8 or 9 I believe.. The American Airgunner folks may sick Jim and one of his big bores on me if I spill the beans about all the topics

. They brought me back out to do 2 reviews as well. Next week should be the first which was the Ruger Yukon. It is a GREAT gun. I loved it.

Cheers guys.

Rick
AGW

Nathan · « **Reply #19 on:** August 20, 2013, 10:25:28 AM »

Nathan

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American Airgunner Round Table - Gas Pistons

Author Topic: American Airgunner Round Table - Gas Pistons (Read 7153 times))