Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.



Author Topic: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.  (Read 123117 times))

Offline stalwart

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Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2013, 01:45:44 AM »
Looks like it's nicely compact... except for the mount. If it is meant to stay on the gun, I'd consider modding it to eliminate the quick release, and mount it directly. There is a nice block of plastic at the base you could shape to fit the bottom of the gun. It would be a lot more comfortable, too.

I'm looking into integrating a laser into the next one. There are 2 ways, I'm measuring for both... and already cut up a laser flashlight for the laser, switch, and rubber button. 

Offline Slavia

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Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2013, 11:24:43 AM »
I've been meaning to ask you... if you had another 17, what would you do to it?

Mine evolved over time according to my tastes, so it would probably be pretty much the same.  I would eliminate the flashlight.  Although it works and looks cool, I seldom use it.  I have eliminated wascally wabbits in the garden (5-7 yard shots), but it's not a hunting gun.  Because of the power level I would stay with .177, with maybe an extra 2" of barrel to squeeze out a little more accuracy.  The longer barrel would have a fake compensator/muzzle brake - rounded on the top/bottom, slab sides, and compensator slots cut on the top.  I would definitely copy your top rail - that's super clean.

Your 1008 is inspiration. What does it weigh?
I haven't actually weighed it, but I'm guessing about 4 pounds.  The pistol itself doesn't weigh anything.  My usual ritual is to take the completed project down to Charlie's Hardware, where he weighs it on the nail scale.  A side note:  that buttstock has a lot of leverage on the mounting screws, and I didn't think the plastic would hold for long.  Instead I bedded "T" nuts in JB Weld 
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Offline stalwart

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Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2013, 07:18:07 PM »
I've been meaning to ask you... if you had another 17, what would you do to it?

Mine evolved over time according to my tastes, so it would probably be pretty much the same. 
It's a great rig... I can see why.

Guys, what do you think? It's together!
« Last Edit: July 02, 2013, 07:25:09 PM by stalwart »

Offline Bob H.

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Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2013, 08:42:43 PM »
Eric,

I like it! I bet it cocks much nicer, no sharp edged rear sight to bite you.  The red dot looks good on it, is it variable brightness?  As a .22 pistol is it easier to load?  I say you done good, you can be proud of your efforts.

BobH.

Guys, what do you think? It's together!
[/quote]
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Offline stalwart

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Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2013, 09:04:38 PM »
Thanks, Bob. I'm very happy with it. Yeah, .22s are a bunch easier to load, especially for a ham handed spaz (that would be me).

The sight has 5 settings each, in red or green, and is surprisingly effective. I hated the size, but it is becoming worth the bulk. I really wish they had put the side turret on the right side, though. I snap shoot with both eyes open, and my left eye is drawn to the turret. Turned upside down, the housing virtually disappears.

The rail pads aren't needed, and sure aren't pretty... but, dayum they're cushy! They stay.

Just tested your pellet loaders, with the hardest challenge: Stocker, with the sharp edged breech... and Daisy wadcutters. Slick! Pure and simple. Very good design... well executed. Kudos.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2013, 09:09:20 PM by stalwart »

Offline Slavia

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Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2013, 10:39:47 PM »
I like the visual effect of putting the scope all the way forward.  Yes indeed, keep the rail cover.  Mine has a bit of toolbox drawer liner adhered to the gun.  Not as clean an installation as yours, but the cushiness is great.  A very nice project.

I snap shoot with both eyes open, and my left eye is drawn to the turret.
My $30 BSA red dot has a lot of "parallax" error.  Hold the gun still while moving your head and the dot moves around.  It's worse with a pistol, because you don't have the cheek weld of a long arm to position your eye consistently.  I scraped the paint from the very rear of the ocular bezel, creating a shiny silver "ghost ring" of sorts.  That helps me center the red dot.  I know your problem is a little different, but perhaps the extra visual information from the dominant eye would help your brain ignore the turret view from your non-dominant eye. 
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Offline stalwart

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Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2013, 11:01:28 PM »
The forward scope makes a taco hold work well. This thing takes any 2 handed hold naturally, and comfortably. I'm looking into folding AR sights, and ladder type pads (much better looking) so I can go open sights with a taco.

If I become more enamored with this dot, I may cut the mounts off, and turn it 90*CW. I don't know what they were thinking...

Thanks, T. Means a lot. I've been blaming you, all along... I bet that happens a lot.  ;) ;D 8)


If anyone can find me a cheaper, more compact or innocent looking case for these, I'll buy us each one. I'm off to the foam stash...
« Last Edit: July 02, 2013, 11:45:47 PM by stalwart »

Offline Slavia

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Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2013, 12:59:58 AM »
If anyone can find me a cheaper, more compact or innocent looking case for these, I'll buy us each one. I'm off to the foam stash...
It looks like that toolbox was made for your application.  Maybe a little foam to keep them from banging around, but it looks good.

How innocent, and how cheap?  The musical instrument case was $3.00 at a garage sale, plus some foam, polar fleece, and bedliner.  The hollow book is from a craft store.  I fixed it up a bit with fake leather and polar fleece.
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Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2013, 02:51:14 AM »
Hi Eric,

Just read through your entire post - several times...!! Outstanding - really appreciate your work and what you've done - sweet!

I love the P17s, and even bought one for each of my brothers and my son - "cleaned them up" and gave them as gifts - (I wanted them to see how awesome the P17 is) - They love them....

Even found a P3 on Craigslist for a great price and although yes, it's nice, the P17 is just as nice (after you've cleaned it up).

Appreciate you sharing.

Thank you,
Rolando

Offline stalwart

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Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2013, 10:13:50 PM »
Hi Eric,

Just read through your entire post - several times...!! Outstanding - really appreciate your work and what you've done - sweet!

I love the P17s, and even bought one for each of my brothers and my son - "cleaned them up" and gave them as gifts - (I wanted them to see how awesome the P17 is) - They love them....

Even found a P3 on Craigslist for a great price and although yes, it's nice, the P17 is just as nice (after you've cleaned it up).

Appreciate you sharing.

Thank you,
Rolando
You are certainly welcome, Rolando. It's this kind of post that makes it easy to take the time to grab (obviously) quick pics and pop them up. It's my pleasure, sir!  ;D

If anyone can find me a cheaper, more compact or innocent looking case for these, I'll buy us each one. I'm off to the foam stash...

How innocent, and how cheap?  The musical instrument case was $3.00 at a garage sale, plus some foam, polar fleece, and bedliner.  The hollow book is from a craft store.  I fixed it up a bit with fake leather and polar fleece.
Nice. The Gun, huh? What's in the book titled "Another Gun"?  ;)

Offline stalwart

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Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2013, 02:26:57 AM »
Lit up the 3rd one, and it seemed to be harder to cock... and had a slightly different tone. Tested for compression space, and got .76mm... it chrono'ed at 405fps.

The first has .84mm, and runs at 390. Hmmmmm.

Stuffing these may have significant results. I'm going to leave the .22 alone for now (I love the thing as is) and experiment on something with a little less time in it.

If anyone is interested in splitting a .177 LW barrel (exactly in half) with me, PM.

Stuffed it. Glued a disc to the piston of the 3rd, then cut it down (a few thou at a time) until it just touches as it's closed. Huge gains! 3fps...  ::) It was already running + spec (405), so I'm guessing stuffing might bring them up to spec, but there isn't much more after that.

Went ahead and ported it to 4mm, we'll know more soon.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 04:57:01 AM by stalwart »

Offline Slavia

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Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
« Reply #31 on: July 04, 2013, 08:25:07 AM »
I made the letters from aluminum foil sandwiched between layers of clear packing tape.  It was such a pain keeping the foil from wrinkling that I chose the shortest title that would still make sense.  My favorite is the fake library call number.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 08:30:04 AM by Slavia »
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Offline stalwart

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Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2013, 08:28:26 PM »
You are far more patient than I will ever be. Amazing detail work.

I just ran across more of your 17 pics on another forum. If you are willing to share them here... please don't hesitate to post them. There's plenty of room here...

Just finished more MSP homework. It is looking like these perform as designed, and there isn't a lot more to be squeezed out unless they can take more air.

The only other option would be to go to a long nose stroker.

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Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
« Reply #33 on: July 05, 2013, 04:46:45 AM »
Hi Eric,

Running into your post got me inspired, so I pulled out my P17, P3 and Hurricane then spent several hours shooting target practicing today...

Shot a tin of Crosman wadcutters - 10 yards, off hand.  It's been a while since I'd shot (work, kids, yadi, yadi, yada...) so started out a little rusty, but got back in the groove with my guns... Wow, I SO love shooting my guns!!!

Also enjoy following what you do with yours... I'm not as talented, but enjoy tinkering none the less.

Happy 4th to all.
Rolando

Offline stalwart

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Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
« Reply #34 on: July 05, 2013, 12:30:28 PM »
Cool. Gotta chase the rust away! Especially on the shooter.

Are you considering mods?

Been playing here, and want to experiment with some things that might kill... and I don't want to ruin the 2 that I built by "improving" them further... so, I ordered 2 more from Big Supply ($25ea... thanks, Jon).

 ;D
« Last Edit: July 05, 2013, 12:32:34 PM by stalwart »

Offline stalwart

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Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
« Reply #35 on: July 05, 2013, 06:19:20 PM »
Here's to consistency! These all give me low ESs, but the .22 has developed a tendency to give me 2 distinct groups for the price of one. After just over 1000 rounds, the pump ring is failing... but with real grace. Sometimes it's a touch easier to close and puts them into the lower group (sighted for 10M, shot at 5M, 2 hands). It's done it for the last 60 rounds, or so, and I can say I'm happy with the life of the supposedly junk rings. I lubed it lightly 5 times in that time, and think a couple bucks spent on good rings is fair enough.

My best of the twin groups:

Offline Bob H.

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Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
« Reply #36 on: July 05, 2013, 06:57:02 PM »
stalwart,

Are you considering a second O ring groove on the piston?  That may be the next mod on my P17.   I'm really enjoying read about your progress.  What would be the minimum velocity to stabilize a .177 pellet, a .22 pellet both thru 1 in 16 twist barrels?

BobH.


















« Last Edit: July 05, 2013, 07:01:22 PM by Bob H. »
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Offline stalwart

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Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
« Reply #37 on: July 06, 2013, 04:39:08 AM »
Mine hold a charge overnight, so I probably won't until I start the multi stroke. I read that 2 can make them hold lube better. A groove between them with something absorbent in it might make a nice wiper.

Stable spin would depend on weight too... I saw the info while reading up on something else, but, like a moron... I didn't bookmark it.

How is the "sweetie friendly" research coming?


New pic is of pin replacing 2.95mm stocker with 1/8 spring steel polished to 3.08mm. Used 8mm drill twirled by hand to cut small bevel in plastic holes, and rounded the pin to allow straight start for slight press fit. Zero slop, has a real quality feel.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 07:16:41 AM by stalwart »

Offline Bob H.

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Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
« Reply #38 on: July 06, 2013, 09:17:31 AM »
Stable spin would depend on weight too... I saw the info while reading up on something else, but, like a moron... I didn't bookmark it.

How is the "sweetie friendly" research coming?


Well, it's the "sweetie friendly" project that drives the velocity question. 

I do not have a great grasp on pneumatics. If I compress a volume of air to one half its original volume without changing its temperature, has the pressure doubled?

I still need to compile a POI / distance graph for Ol" Softy.  Ol' Softy is the reduced velocity P 17.  One of our friends was shooting Ol' Softy with its laser sight and the lady was really enjoying it and shooting well.  She almost pinched part of her anatomy as she was closing the pistol, so I saw that it isn't "sweetie friendly" yet.

BobH.
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Offline stalwart

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Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
« Reply #39 on: July 06, 2013, 05:34:36 PM »
If you are talking about pinching where I think you are...  :o That would cure a budding AG addiction quickly.

Finished the most time consuming part of all this: Detailing the metal parts, and smoothing the frame. I really like the way the black powder coat looks on the bits... maybe the next one will be left shiny (maybe not).

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