Airgun club.

[Monkeydad1969]

Hey all, 

My bro-n-law and I are wanting to start an AG club here in Colorado.  I need some info on how to start one and what legality issues do I need to address, etc., etc.

Thanks all,

Joe

[Mebits]

Watching with interest!

M

[jeja]

excellent video(Youtube) on making the range from Boy Scouts in Florida
shands_rifle_retrieval.m4v

good luck on your endeavor

[Coachkilla32]

Good luck in your en devour, keep us up to date and how your progress is going, I'm interested to see the end result of your efforts.

[Monkeydad1969]

Thanks all, I'll be sure to keep you all posted.

Joe

[mtsheron70]

There is alot to do if you do it to become a "non-profit" entity; have a bank account for incoming dues; < that one requires a EIN from the IRS; then you must get your state to recognize you as a not for profit if your state is like NC; then you have to have a charter to submit; then the purchase of hobby insurance as I call it to cover liability.

Ask me how I know!

I started the WNCAGC (Western NC Airgun Club) years back and went through all this.  It was a learning process for sure but an intense one to organize a club.  You would think I was starting a Fortune 500 business and getting ready to be public traded company!

I guess what I am saying is it is not as simple as one would think depending on how far you want to go with it.  Or just do like minded folks get together and meet over a nice dinner every so often and just shoot.

You have to decide.  Oh, and if you do it the way I did you still have to file a tax return!!!!  Good luck.

[Mebits]

Nobody notices all these rules when they're enacted. "It doesn't apply to me, so whatever!"

Then, years later, you have a great idea that will positive impact hundreds or thousands of lives, but you can't possibly afford to implement it due to regulations and restrictions that serve no purpose other than to control people and enrich attorneys.

Many will ignore the law, which is another trap the state loves because then they get to hold non-compliance over your head (along with associated fines and sanctions)...yet another way to control you.

One MIGHT suggest voting libertarian next go 'round, if one wanted to make a political statement relating to this sorry state of affairs. I won't, of course, but one might.





M

[Monkeydad1969]

There is alot to do if you do it to become a "non-profit" entity; have a bank account for incoming dues; < that one requires a EIN from the IRS; then you must get your state to recognize you as a not for profit if your state is like NC; then you have to have a charter to submit; then the purchase of hobby insurance as I call it to cover liability.

Ask me how I know!

I started the WNCAGC (Western NC Airgun Club) years back and went through all this.  It was a learning process for sure but an intense one to organize a club.  You would think I was starting a Fortune 500 business and getting ready to be public traded company!

I guess what I am saying is it is not as simple as one would think depending on how far you want to go with it.  Or just do like minded folks get together and meet over a nice dinner every so often and just shoot.

You have to decide.  Oh, and if you do it the way I did you still have to file a tax return!!!!  Good luck.

Thanks Mike.  You have given me a lot to chew on.  I will really have to put a whole lot more thought into it.  It's something I and my shooting buds want to do, I just want to make it as easy as possible.  Not looking to have money involved, just some good times and maybe some really cool club gear---hats and t-shirts.

Joe

[Monkeydad1969]

Nobody notices all these rules when they're enacted. "It doesn't apply to me, so whatever!"

Then, years later, you have a great idea that will positive impact hundreds or thousands of lives, but you can't possibly afford to implement it due to regulations and restrictions that serve no purpose other than to control people and enrich attorneys.

Many will ignore the law, which is another trap the state loves because then they get to hold non-compliance over your head (along with associated fines and sanctions)...yet another way to control you.

One MIGHT suggest voting libertarian next go 'round, if one wanted to make a political statement relating to this sorry state of affairs. I won't, of course, but one might.





M

You bring up really valid points.  That is the kind of thing that can scare a person off of the idea of forming a club, just because someone has their hand out to line their pockets.  I will be researching more before i commit.

Thanks,

Joe

[Mebits]

Joe, I don't mean to discourage you. Quite the opposite. I'm just bemoaning the state of affairs.

I do think that if you keep things small and voluntary you might be able to both stay under the radar and also out of trouble and still have a lot of fun.

Mark

[Sheridan 74]

I am a member of a couple of model rocketry clubs. We are sanctioned by the national organizations the NAR (National Association of Rocketry) and the TRA (Tripoli Rocketry Association). Our members are covered by the organizations liability policies. Having the insurance is a big help when dealing with property owners in trying to secure launch areas. Also being sanctioned by national organizations gives a level of credibility when dealing with local officials. Rocketry clubs are often active in community outreach and work with local schools, scouting, the civil air patrol, boys and girls clubs etc.. This all helps when dealing with the public who often see rocketry as dangerous and rocketeers as weirdo pyromaniacs. I think if I were to organize an air rifle club I'd start by joining the NRA or one of the other national shooting organizations and perhaps a local gun club. If the NRA is anything like the NAR they will have tips on how to organize local clubs and even supply grants to sanctioned clubs. A little research may go a long way to realizing your dream.

Jeff

[Monkeydad1969]

I am a member of a couple of model rocketry clubs. We are sanctioned by the national organizations the NAR (National Association of Rocketry) and the TRA (Tripoli Rocketry Association). Our members are covered by the organizations liability policies. Having the insurance is a big help when dealing with property owners in trying to secure launch areas. Also being sanctioned by national organizations gives a level of credibility when dealing with local officials. Rocketry clubs are often active in community outreach and work with local schools, scouting, the civil air patrol, boys and girls clubs etc.. This all helps when dealing with the public who often see rocketry as dangerous and rocketeers as weirdo pyromaniacs. I think if I were to organize an air rifle club I'd start by joining the NRA or one of the other national shooting organizations and perhaps a local gun club. If the NRA is anything like the NAR they will have tips on how to organize local clubs and even supply grants to sanctioned clubs. A little research may go a long way to realizing your dream.

Jeff

Thanks for the info, Jeff.

Joe

[Monkeydad1969]

Joe, I don't mean to discourage you. Quite the opposite. I'm just bemoaning the state of affairs.

I do think that if you keep things small and voluntary you might be able to both stay under the radar and also out of trouble and still have a lot of fun.

Mark

Hey Mark,

No discouragement here, sir.  Just agreeing with your statement.  I am glad that you did give me your input. 

Thanks,

Joe

[TimmyMac1]

CASA(California Airgun Shooters Association) is an association without Non-Profit Status. We have NRA (lloyds of LOndon underwritten)Insurance and we have a Checking account. This was done with no EIN number as all duties are volunteer and we pay no-one any money. Ranges get the income from our activity with no need to supervise us at all. We have had this arraNGEMENT FOR DECADES. YOU MAKE IT REAL DIFFICULT WHEN YOU SAY "NOT FOR PROFIT".
Special rules apply for Not-For-Profit entities that makes it a tedious way to operate an AG club. We spend what money comes in and that is going to accumlate as assets owned by and expenses of the association. We've accumulated around $10K in assets over the last 20 years or so Tax Free. Insurance costs around $1k per year for multiple venue coverage. No Profit is better than Not For Profit.
Most clubs start as a labor of love from someone(s) who care(s). You will never have to worry about profit. That is not likely at all.
Good Luck.

TimmyMac1
Founding member of CASA

[airnutz]

Joe, first of all....the air can get really dry out there in Colorado.

So, I wanna know if you'll offer a cool one for after shooting?

Nothing worse than dry throat after so much concentrating.

[Monkeydad1969]

CASA(California Airgun Shooters Association) is an association without Non-Profit Status. We have NRA (lloyds of LOndon underwritten)Insurance and we have a Checking account. This was done with no EIN number as all duties are volunteer and we pay no-one any money. Ranges get the income from our activity with no need to supervise us at all. We have had this arraNGEMENT FOR DECADES. YOU MAKE IT REAL DIFFICULT WHEN YOU SAY "NOT FOR PROFIT".
Special rules apply for Not-For-Profit entities that makes it a tedious way to operate an AG club. We spend what money comes in and that is going to accumlate as assets owned by and expenses of the association. We've accumulated around $10K in assets over the last 20 years or so Tax Free. Insurance costs around $1k per year for multiple venue coverage. No Profit is better than Not For Profit.
Most clubs start as a labor of love from someone(s) who care(s). You will never have to worry about profit. That is not likely at all.
Good Luck.

TimmyMac1
Founding member of CASA

Thanks TimmyMac1 for that info...that was very informative and gives me tons more to consider.

Joe

[Monkeydad1969]

Joe, first of all....the air can get really dry out there in Colorado.

So, I wanna know if you'll offer a cool one for after shooting?

Nothing worse than dry throat after so much concentrating.

There had to be one...and his name is Robert...OF COURSE THERE WILL BE A COOL ONE...I DECREE A COOL ONE OR TWO OR (YOU GET THE POINT), FOR ALL.

LET NO MAN OR WOMAN GO THIRSTY!!!!!

Joe

[limbwalker]

Go through a parent organization.  For our JOAD (Junior Olympic Archery Development) club, we are covered under the parent USArchery organization, and follow (for the most part) their rules for events, judging, etc.  We don't have to be a 501c3 non-profit unless we just want to be.  Works fine so long as you can trust your club officers with money.

The rules and non-profit tax-exempt status, etc. are there to protect us all.  Otherwise, every business would just operate as a non-profit to get out of paying any taxes, even though taxpayers drive on taxpayer-funded roads to get to their business, and they enjoy public utilities, etc., etc. 

The rules for non-profits also protect the members from embezzlement (ask USArchery about that one!).  Local airgun or archery clubs don't usually handle enough money for anyone to worry about it, but just keep in mind that to someone in need, even $20 is a lot of money. 

Hobby clubs tend to fold up because they didn't take care of the details like these, recruit new board members, have open and fair elections, etc.  After a while, one or two people who trust one another (and nobody else) will get burned out, and want to quit.  Then the membership suffers. 

I've seen it too many times. 

If you can operate as a club under NRA, Issac Walton League, or 4-H, then do it.  That's the easiest way to go.

John