Lubing my R9 with Krytox GPL205...my first impressions.

[thekid]

Dang....8 oz...240 dollars.
Thats crazy expensive

[bubba zanetti]

Dang....8 oz...240 dollars.
Thats crazy expensive

It's worth it IF the Krytox shows less wear and tear on a springer, its assorted parts and lasts a heck of alot longer.

Right now we have a really good product and some chrony numbers but not much else.

Hey nced, would you entertain taking two springers, break them down and take measurements (in a sence blueprint the parts) lube one the traditional way and lube the other with Krytox and basically perform a couple year study with perfomrance and parts wear information?

I know I would find that more emperical and the information would be most interesting.

BZ

[nced]

Dang....8 oz...240 dollars.
Thats crazy expensive

You really don't need anywhere near 8oz! I only bought a 1/2oz tube for around $17 and after COMPLETELY lubing my R9 with the stuff including the spring (light film on spring, not glopped on), spring guide, piston, cocking shoe, piston seal, spring loaded barrel detent, barrel pivot bolt with shims, safety button and trigger latch components..........I still have this much left over............


Matter of fact, since I was pretty liberal with the stuff on the piston and piston seal for the R9 (testing the "dieselability"), I'm sure that the remaining will be enough to normally lube my HW77 when I decide to do the required stripping of all existing lubes. You can also buy a 2oz tube for under $50 which would be sufficient for many guns!

As a side note.........I don't believe that the Krytox GPL205 is thick enough to dampen a twanging spring like the normal "goopy tar", however my spring guides are home rolled and very snug fitting in the spring so "tar" isn't required. The Krytox on the spring and spring guide is ONLY to make it slippery!   

[Mpac]

I used 4ml on my Hatsan135 and this spring is off a WFH but this is what I did for a top hat the spring guide inplace to quiet down the spring noise when shot and it worked.I like it so far,trying to figure which gun gets it next ,the Krytox.The magic marker mark is where I stated at of the 3/4 oz.

[nced]

I used 4ml on my Hatsan135 and this spring is off a WFH but this is what I did for a top hat the spring guide inplace to quiet down the spring noise when shot and it worked.I like it so far,trying to figure which gun gets it next ,the Krytox.The magic marker mark is where I stated at of the 3/4 oz.

For what it's worth.........according to the Dupont literature all existing lubes need to be stripped before applying Krytox. The reason Dupont gives is that Krytox won't mix with any other grease and the existing grease residue will cause failure. I don't know how this would apply to springers but I'm guessing Dupont is referring to high speed mechanisms like bearings.

Anywhoo.......I noticed that the spring in your pic had a bunch of black crud on the coils and, IMHO, it might be a good idea to clean it up first. Just a suggestion "just in case"! 

[KGatLC]

          Are you seeing a reduction in fliers using Krytox. Seems like you would.

[Mpac]

I used 4ml on my Hatsan135 and this spring is off a WFH but this is what I did for a top hat the spring guide inplace to quiet down the spring noise when shot and it worked.I like it so far,trying to figure which gun gets it next ,the Krytox.The magic marker mark is where I stated at of the 3/4 oz.

For what it's worth.........according to the Dupont literature all existing lubes need to be stripped before applying Krytox. The reason Dupont gives is that Krytox won't mix with any other grease and the existing grease residue will cause failure. I don't know how this would apply to springers but I'm guessing Dupont is referring to high speed mechanisms like bearings.

Anywhoo.......I noticed that the spring in your pic had a bunch of black crud on the coils and, IMHO, it might be a good idea to clean it up first. Just a suggestion "just in case"! 

That's a old spring couple of years old with jm heavy tar all over it so it won't rust ,I was demostrating what I did as a tophat with my Hatsan spring that's in my gun already.

[Mpac]

Used it on my XL1100 and gained 13 to 17 fps was averaging 913 fps before.926/930 fps ,still need to let it settle in.Tested it with CPHP's 14.3 grain.Used 2ml .Still have enough for 2 more guns ,so it's well worth the money.

[nced]

"Hey nced, would you entertain taking two springers, break them down and take measurements (in a sence blueprint the parts) lube one the traditional way and lube the other with Krytox and basically perform a couple year study with perfomrance and parts wear information?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Greetings Bubba! Actually......I don't believe that there is any "wear" that can be measured and quantified using two HW springers since the dimensions of two different NEW guns vary considerably. What I can do in the future when I have the time is chrony my oring sealed HW77 in it's current state since it's "traditionally lubed" with molly paste and tar and it has THOUSANDS of shots on the current tune! I could then strip all lubes and relube with Krytox GPL205.........then check it out after shooting a box of CPLs.

The "fly in the ointment" for this testing is that all my springers have been considerably home tuned and modified (oring sealed piston mods etc.) using "home spun" and aftermarket components so there won't be much to be compared to a HW77 or R9 that's owned by anyone else.

I've already determined that the Krytox GPL205 lube job on my oring sealed .177 R9 has been performing "better" than when the gun was lubed with molly paste and tar judging from the "cold to warm" shooting tests I've done and now I'm moving into the phase where I'll be testing the performance of a Krytox lubed Vortek VAC seal instead of the oring sealed piston caps I've used for years.

So far Krytox GPL205 is working well, is friendly to my orings, seems long lasting, it's SLIPPERY, Krytox is a "one lube fits all", and it ain't no messy black stuff. SO FAR......I'm pleased!

I'll keep y'all posted about my findings over time.........

As a side note.........I do like the format of this forum where a reply get's bumped to the top instead of my having to wade through a couple days of replies to see if any were to a post of mine!!

[bubba zanetti]

"Hey nced, would you entertain taking two springers, break them down and take measurements (in a sence blueprint the parts) lube one the traditional way and lube the other with Krytox and basically perform a couple year study with perfomrance and parts wear information?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Greetings Bubba! Actually......I don't believe that there is any "wear" that can be measured and quantified using two HW springers since the dimensions of two different NEW guns vary considerably. What I can do in the future when I have the time is chrony my oring sealed HW77 in it's current state since it's "traditionally lubed" with molly paste and tar and it has THOUSANDS of shots on the current tune! I could then strip all lubes and relube with Krytox GPL205.........then check it out after shooting a box of CPLs.

The "fly in the ointment" for this testing is that all my springers have been considerably home tuned and modified (oring sealed piston mods etc.) using "home spun" and aftermarket components so there won't be much to be compared to a HW77 or R9 that's owned by anyone else.

I've already determined that the Krytox GPL205 lube job on my oring sealed .177 R9 has been performing "better" than when the gun was lubed with molly paste and tar judging from the "cold to warm" shooting tests I've done and now I'm moving into the phase where I'll be testing the performance of a Krytox lubed Vortek VAC seal instead of the oring sealed piston caps I've used for years.

So far Krytox GPL205 is working well, is friendly to my orings, seems long lasting, it's SLIPPERY, Krytox is a "one lube fits all", and it ain't no messy black stuff. SO FAR......I'm pleased!

I'll keep y'all posted about my findings over time.........

As a side note.........I do like the format of this forum where a reply get's bumped to the top instead of my having to wade through a couple days of replies to see if any were to a post of mine!!

Hey, thanks for the response.

I think its pretty interesting what you are doing with the Krytox grease. One thing is for certain it clearly doesn’t diesel. Seems per the chrony that the gun shoots more consistent.

Too bad springer’s vary that much on that a blueprint would be hard or "dang" near impossible.

Anyway, keep us posted as this thread is interesting and your updates are appreciated.

BZ

[nced]

A bit of an update. My Krytox GPL205 lubed oring sealed .177 R9 has been shooting very consistent CPL velocities of 870fps (give or take a few) with gun temps from upper 20s to mid 50s which is very good. No other lubing method I've used performed as consistently.

Today I received a new Vortek VAC seal for the R9 and installed it after lubing it with Krytox GPL205. After a few dozen shots I took the R9 to the chrony and found that the CPL velocity was  a nice consistent 850fps and the only change was replacing the oring sealed piston cap with the VAC seal. While the oring sealed cap gave 20fps more velocity, the 850 fps I got is perfectly adequate and there will only be around 1/4" difference in trajectory at 50 yards.

Anywhoo......in the future I'll be testing the Vortek VAC parachute seal lubed with Krytox at different gun temps as I did with the oring sealed piston cap just for grinns.

Obviously......the bottom line will be the consistency of the point of impact and that testing will be done later as atmospheric conditions improve.     

[nced]

Just came in from a back yard shooting session in perfect springer temperature of 66 degrees, however a bit breezy.

The good......
A pretty nice 50 yard grouping in the variable breeze after some closer shooting..........


The 5 shot group is pretty good "up & down" but a bit spread wide by the breeze.

The not so good.....
Twenty shots over the chrony showed a CPL velocity spread from 835fps to 856fps for a 21fps deviation. So far I don't know the effect of such a large variation at the muzzle since the 5 shot 50 yards group above is actually pretty good. Here is the velocity string......

1st 10 shot string........... 843,840,856,839,839,853,836,845,855,834
2nd 10 shot string........... 841,844,854,836,844,850,833,835,838,851

Anywhoo......this is the same .177 R9 power plant that gave 870fps with the oring sealed piston cap and a single didget velocity spread. Think I'm reinstalling my oring sealed piston cap.

[cnjl3]

Did you give it enough time (pellets?) for the parachute seal to set?
Many say 1 or 2 tins before it has properly seated into your compression tube.
I even saw one poster say that after a tune or mod that you needed to just hold
off for a few months before even bringing out the old chronograph. There is so many
posts about it that I don't know who to believe.
 

Anywhoo......this is the same .177 R9 power plant that gave 870fps with the oring sealed piston cap and a single didget velocity spread. Think I'm reinstalling my oring sealed piston cap.

[nced]

Did you give it enough time (pellets?) for the parachute seal to set?
Many say 1 or 2 tins before it has properly seated into your compression tube.
I even saw one poster say that after a tune or mod that you needed to just hold
off for a few months before even bringing out the old chronograph. There is so many
posts about it that I don't know who to believe.
 

Anywhoo......this is the same .177 R9 power plant that gave 870fps with the oring sealed piston cap and a single didget velocity spread. Think I'm reinstalling my oring sealed piston cap.

Prior to the test today I had done about 100 shots, however perhaps you have a valid point. With the oring sealed piston caps I've used for years there are very few break-in shots needed to stabilize the velocity, but I do remember that in the past the parachute seals I used DID require a lot of break-in. Matter of fact, it usually took a couple dozen warm-up shots each day before a shooting session to stabilize the poi.

Humm.......forgot about all that, guess I'll probably revert back to the oring seal for sure!

[cnjl3]

LOL! Yeah, I don't blame you for going back to your o-ring because you were getting a consistent 875fps. I really appreciate all this data you have been providing. I have been reading about this Krytox on this website and also on the yellow and it sounds like this stuff could be the magic elixir.