WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE HATSANS

[z28rod]

"ONE resounding response (no matter what other requests we had ), was that QUALITY of the Componentry and Manufacture was most important.  Further, it was commonly posted that folks didn't mind spending a little more, if the quality was there."
Oh diss is not god monsherri !!

[Paul68]

Well, if you are going to be fair, then while you're at it, you should drag the reputations of all the Chinese guns with similar issues through the dirt as well.  I don't want to lose Hatsan in the U.S.!!  I hope to God that this doesn't turn into a Hatsan bash party (looks like it already has).

I really just don't get why there is so much overreaction and defensiveness when it comes to Hatsan. Why should they get any special treatement over other brands? There are plenty of honest reports of issues with chinese guns as well, yet, no one seems to get very upset or defensive, and in fact usually appreciate the objective evaulations that have led to the well known methods for addressing their shortcomings.

I don't think it's a matter of "bashing" or dragging any names through the mud at all. Just some clear and proven issues being reported by owners of Hatsans, that anyone looking to buy a Hatsan should at the very least know about.

After all, that is one of the reasons why we come here isn't it? To get the real story on these AG's instead of factory hype and marketing spin?

Would it be better if those of us getting these Hatsans with serious issues, just be quiet, or ignore that we can't even shoot ours and instead gush and rah rah rah about how nice they look, if in fact we were even lucky enough to get one that looked good even if it wont shoot worth diddly? Maybe we should just make excuses and talk about what a great gun it will be once we ( fix the problems, pour money into it, work on it for weeks, send it back and get a new one at our cost)?

Relax man. No one is bashing em. Just telling the truth.   

[Tom @ Buzzard Bluff]

No one is bashing em. Just telling the truth.

 Which was exactly what caused my 'fair & balanced' post concerning what we know about them to be consigned to the 'Unproductive Posts' bin!

<http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,27624.0.html>

[Devin]

Well, if you are going to be fair, then while you're at it, you should drag the reputations of all the Chinese guns with similar issues through the dirt as well.  I don't want to lose Hatsan in the U.S.!!  I hope to God that this doesn't turn into a Hatsan bash party (looks like it already has).

I really just don't get why there is so much overreaction and defensiveness when it comes to Hatsan. Why should they get any special treatement over other brands? There are plenty of honest reports of issues with chinese guns as well, yet, no one seems to get very upset or defensive, and in fact usually appreciate the objective evaulations that have led to the well known methods for addressing their shortcomings.

I don't think it's a matter of "bashing" or dragging any names through the mud at all. Just some clear and proven issues being reported by owners of Hatsans, that anyone looking to buy a Hatsan should at the very least know about.

After all, that is one of the reasons why we come here isn't it? To get the real story on these AG's instead of factory hype and marketing spin?

Would it be better if those of us getting these Hatsans with serious issues, just be quiet, or ignore that we can't even shoot ours and instead gush and rah rah rah about how nice they look, if in fact we were even lucky enough to get one that looked good even if it wont shoot worth diddly? Maybe we should just make excuses and talk about what a great gun it will be once we ( fix the problems, pour money into it, work on it for weeks, send it back and get a new one at our cost)?

Relax man. No one is bashing em. Just telling the truth.

Couldn't have been said better.

To add to what has been said already...The comparison to the China-made guns is also a bit unfair. Think about how many more of them are sold. On a percentage basis I'd be willing to bet the quality issues of Hatsan are much more profound. When I posted the issues with my fathers 95 I don't recall even ONE 95 owner that said their piston was finished and didnt have metal shavings in the tube (among the other problems they are known to have). Low and behold his replacement also had the same exact issues, plus some other things.

I think as a whole we here on the forums have handled the situation in a fair and just manner. Those of us that have experience with the Hatsans have come back and reported the truth. As far as I see nothing has been blown out of the water. Issues like these must be surfaced for the sake of all the other potential customers who might want to go with a "safer" purchase. These people should be aware when they are gambling with a particular rifle/line of rifles that are known to have significant problems.

You could bet dollars to donuts that if everyone with a bad Hatsan kept their mouth shut, the Turkish gate would now be overran with angry customers with "broken" guns. Heck, it sometimes seems to be that way despite all the "warnings" of those who reported on the issues.

Whether you consider it a bash party or not, atleast be thankful for those who can spot a piņata when they see one 

[Kailua]

There a few that have mentioned this.  There maybe many that haven't.  They would buy or consider buying a Hatsan springer if they were confident in getting replacement parts like springs and seals.  Just about any springer on the market can get these parts.

[Mike 4888blues]

There a few that have mentioned this.  There maybe many that haven't.  They would buy or consider buying a Hatsan springer if they were confident in getting replacement parts like springs and seals.  Just about any springer on the market can get these parts.

Well if someone ruined there barrel I can understand the concern for parts, j m makes seals, Paul makes seals, and even the mod 95 can use a jm seal,if you mod the piston button, or get Paul to make you a direct fit seal.Suitable replacement main springs can be had, if you needed one,via wfh or talons, or similar replacement springs from other sources,o rings from ace hardware store, or possibly a o ring assortment kit,or plumbing supply.

The small trigger spring can be had commercially if you looked around,small pins can be made.
what's  ever going to happen to a heavy duty piston? nothing, your rifle stock would have to be ruined if your trigger was damaged its enclosed in steel, and the trigger parts are not going to break on there own.. i am sure you could always get a suitable pivot bolt as well.replacement receiver? your out of luck there!

 I like to know how many sales hatsan lost because the parts are not available and people refused to buy them,and how many future sales they lost, from those who received bad hatsan that were returned.

 And it's true from what some gta members said that they had hatsans for years in the U K, and they had the same issues for years,that does not say much for hatsan does it.
 Far as i am concerned,  For me, and a lot of others, fixing our own is not a issue.
So there we have it,seems right to me, we have guys who hate hatsan,love hatsan,or wont buy hatsan ever again,or are on the fence not sure they want to buy a hatsan

I thought hatsan was the most promising company when I first looked into them, but now I dont, they had plenty of time to address there Q C and they never did. all I know is I love the two models I have, and i may buy another in the future.
 That's the air gun industry as we know it, even when a company comes along with a better design, something has to go wrong.


 

 

 

 

[Paul68]

There's nothing wrong with Hatsan that a little more attention to QC wont help a great deal.  Just like with other AGs, they are proving to have their strengths and weaknesses. Hatsans seem to be a case of extremes however.

Either you get a sweet one that has gobs of power and kills flies at 50 yrds, or you get one that someone dumped the shavings bin into and shoots around corners.

Really, they look to be shaping up to be a great platform with the best power potential for the buck, but like the rest will have to receive attention out of the box to avoid problems.

I just see no reason to sugar coat anything for them. They ship a subpar product, they get a mediocre or poor  review. They ship a great product, they get a great review.  It'll all come out in the wash:D

[Mike 4888blues]

There's nothing wrong with Hatsan that a little more attention to QC wont help a great deal.  Just like with other AGs, they are proving to have their strengths and weaknesses. Hatsans seem to be a case of extremes however.

Either you get a sweet one that has gobs of power and kills flies at 50 yrds, or you get one that someone dumped the shavings bin into and shoots around corners.

Really, they look to be shaping up to be a great platform with the best power potential for the buck, but like the rest will have to receive attention out of the box to avoid problems.

I just see no reason to sugar coat anything for them. They ship a subpar product, they get a mediocre or poor  review. They ship a great product, they get a great review.  It'll all come out in the wash:D

That's the way it should be, hopefully we will be objective and see the good  and the bad.
Example
 Some hatsan quattro triggers felt great to some, others not so, but at least we know it has the potential to be sweet, rather then not at all.

It's easy to get frustrated over a issue and hard to be objective at that moment.
 We also have many opinions to weigh over as results come in , and from that we can come to a safe conclusion.

[z28rod]

I still say we give Hatsan a chance to rectify these QC issues. It's only been what 3 weeks. I sure hope in the next few weeks we see some better air rifles coming in shipments to the dealers, lets just see. And if not , oh well , we will just have to consider that if you buy a Hatsan model blah blah, then before taking it out to break it in it needs to be looked over for these problems. Brent

[donderkop]

I have two Hatsans. The Hatsan m95[4.5mm] and the Webley ValueMax[5mm].  The m95 was de-tuned to 850fps with a 8,4gr JSB and she is a dreamer! Long range target hitter! 
The Webley is actually the Hatsan Striker in 5mm.  After 2000 shots she is deadly acurate, and no tuning what so ever was done.  Her trigger is'nt very good[the m95 has a lovely trigger!] but to me it was achallenge to master the trigger. At this stage I prefer the Webley as my Hunter and making 5 kills in a row this afternoon[40+ yards] says everything!

[Mike 4888blues]

see next post

[Mike 4888blues]

I have two Hatsans. The Hatsan m95[4.5mm] and the Webley ValueMax[5mm].  The m95 was de-tuned to 850fps with a 8,4gr JSB and she is a dreamer! Long range target hitter! 
The Webley is actually the Hatsan Striker in 5mm.  After 2000 shots she is deadly acurate, and no tuning what so ever was done.  Her trigger is'nt very good[the m95 has a lovely trigger!] but to me it was achallenge to master the trigger. At this stage I prefer the Webley as my Hunter and making 5 kills in a row this afternoon[40+ yards] says everything!

No doubt about that, not  to mention  the different cool rifles they offer.

Buyers choice, it would be great just buying and enjoying a well  made hatsan instead of hearing all the good, bad, and ugly, facts  over and over and over again.  Oh well that's just the way it is, I am glad I have mine.

[GunnerAl]

I have two Hatsans. The Hatsan m95[4.5mm] and the Webley ValueMax[5mm].  The m95 was de-tuned to 850fps with a 8,4gr JSB and she is a dreamer! Long range target hitter!

I think what you've said here has a whole lot of relevance to many problems suffered by many airgun manufacturers. They all seem to be trying, striving to get every last fps they can get out of their newer models. While there's nothing really wrong with that as such, I believe that the urge to get more power has overtaken the quality of the rifle it's meant to be coming from... In other words, I feel you have to go - bigger, heavier, better quality,, or any combination of the those to successfully handle the stresses and strains of getting huge velocities from a powerful spring. Detuning like you did, has probably hit the sweat spot and now your rifle may well be working well within its design and, with fingers crossed, may well be a lot more managable, accurate and less likely to give the troubles of an over-stressed similar model...

The Webley is actually the Hatsan Striker in 5mm.  After 2000 shots she is deadly acurate, and no tuning what so ever was done.  Her trigger is'nt very good[the m95 has a lovely trigger!] but to me it was achallenge to master the trigger. At this stage I prefer the Webley as my Hunter and making 5 kills in a row this afternoon[40+ yards] says everything!

I just bought one of these Webley ValueMax's in .22 cal 3 weeks ago and although it's no the dream rifle of all air rifles, it sure is a little sweaty. Easy to cock and easier to shoot. It appears to be accurate with its open sights (although I will put a scope on it soon) and the chrony is telling me that the velocities from shot to shot are actually quite tight. To date, I've chronied it with two different chronies and the maximum difference between any two shots is about 10fps, but, I was a little underwhelmed initially by the somewhat lower than advertised velocity, not that I live by those numbers,, but mine is getting about 17-18 fpe at the muzzle and not the 20 that Webley quotes. That doesn't really make me want to jump up and down and scream "bloody murder"... It shoots well and that's all I worry about...

Edit in a bit later......

Actually, while I'm here,,
Since I got my two chrony's, I have been interested in putting many of my rifles through them to see just what I am getting,, more for graphing them in ChairGun Pro than to show off to others... I have two Webley Patriots both in .25 cal,, one English and one Turkish (Hatsan) - which is more than likely to have the same internals as the earlier Model 125's. Originally, the Turkish one suffered from a bad fitting seal and began to show the worrying signs than a few Hatsan owners are going through now - bad recoil, rough to shoot, poor grouping etc. The seal was replaced with a third party one and it then appeared to shoot ok so it was sort of put back into the closet and largely forgotten. Just the other day I decided to compare the two Patriots for velocity and was quite amazed that the English one was hitting just over 100 fps more than the Turkish, both shooting Bisley Field Dialolo 24.3gr pellets. I was actually quite drop-jawed at so much difference. The energy's between the two are in the order of 28-29 fpe (Eng) against 20-21 fpe (Turk). Wowwww...!!

I immediately though about investigating the innards of the Turk, then realised that it is quite a sweat rifle to load and fire compared to the outrageously hard to load English model, then I thought I would just leave it as it is and use it that way too...
Why not..??
It's still going to lift the top of a bunny rabbits skull off at 50 paces,, and I can use it all day with a modearate amount body building to strengthen my puny arms, compared to other rifles I have and some of you guys have too...

[Bullit]

Mike4888blues, I would like you to shorten your posts, because they take up a lot of space here for the readers, and your points can be made in 1/2 the time.    The Turkey Mfr Reps were told that QC and component quality were more important than power. Accuracy was paramount.  They asked if "we USA" would pay more, and it was a "YES" (though within reason).   The product was more expensive...but the quality isn't.  The 2nd issue was product support.    How can you suggest that someone go to you, or somewhere else to procure parts when they just spent good money on a "High QC" Hatsan.  A LOT of these guys wanted a unit that they could shoot out of the box...pretty much.  Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't understand you posting Mike.   This is a new product and there are no "pro" tuners that have posted on them.

[Mike 4888blues]

Mike4888blues, I would like you to shorten your posts, because they take up a lot of space here for the readers, and your points can be made in 1/2 the time.    The Turkey Mfr Reps were told that QC and component quality were more important than power. Accuracy was paramount.  They asked if "we USA" would pay more, and it was a "YES" (though within reason).   The product was more expensive...but the quality isn't.  The 2nd issue was product support.    How can you suggest that someone go to you, or somewhere else to procure parts when they just spent good money on a "High QC" Hatsan.  A LOT of these guys wanted a unit that they could shoot out of the box...pretty much.  Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't understand you posting Mike.   This is a new product and there are no "pro" tuners that have posted on them.

 Hello. Thank you for you response.

In Post #25
 I mentioned nothing about any one coming to me for parts. I  mentioned that if certain  parts were needed, they could be found thru different resourcing, thru different means, main spring etc .
 I  mention your out of luck if you need a receiver or a barrel.
We all want a good product  out of the box.

 The information was to let some one  know  they are not totally up a creek  with out a paddle on some  parts.

 My post btw  was not as long as post #32  and  some one  will be glad  to know  the information I provided I hope.,I would if I was worried about parts.
 best regards Mike


 
 

[Paul68]

Mike gets on a roll sometimes, but I've never found myself getting wore out thumbing that big ol heavy wheel on my mouse lol.

 

[Tarheel]

Mike4888blues, I would like you to shorten your posts, because they take up a lot of space here for the readers, and your points can be made in 1/2 the time.   

Fortunately, GTA has no rules concerning the lengths of posts . . . You request "shorter posts", citing issues for "others" . . . Yet, you are the only one complaining . . . Non Sequitir !

Believe me, I could write a "manifesto", with the proper motivation. Written communication is a funny thing. Some people like it short and to the point, while others prefer lots of detail and dialogue. Styles of expression and syntax vary widely, from individual to individual.

Frankly, Mike has the right to post as he pleases, just like everyone else does.

Dave

[z28rod]

"Mike has the right to post as he pleases, just like everyone else does." x2

[bluzjamer]

+1 Brent

There aren't any pro tuners working on these anymore, might tell you something.
The one tuner that was is having trust issues and has been banned from other forums.
Want to send your gun there?
I'm glad to have the guys like Mike, Mark, Dave, and the others that have been posting info on these Hatsans. For the guys that don't like it...well there's a lot of channels...find another one.

[Volltreffer]

The length (style) of Mike's posts is fine. They are informative and useful. What else is there to want? Kymike, I enjoy your posts as well. The GTA is a great place with a very cool variety of individuals. Lots of opinions and passion for airgunning!