Author Topic: nitro piston failure (Read 19512 times))

Night-Hawk · « **on:** May 03, 2012, 10:44:03 PM »

After a few hundred rounds my Gamo Whisper Nitro piston quit working. The trigger releases and you can feel the piston slowly move an inch or two. I want to tear it down and do a nice tune and get working but cannot find any info. Can someone point me in the right direction please.

Jeff

Kailua · « **Reply #1 on:** May 04, 2012, 02:13:46 AM »

I know one of the main bosses of the GTA Bob Werner alias Charliedatuna had written a spring gun write up and was going to make it a sticky. I should have save it but didn't. Not sure where to find it. I am almost sure someone can help us find it. I am almost sure a gas piston tune would be same as a spring tune. Just that taking apart a spring rifle may be a little different from one model to another.

Do me a favor could you send CharlieDaTuna a personal message of where it is? If you do find it please let me know where it is.

gamo2hammerli · « **Reply #2 on:** May 04, 2012, 02:21:50 AM »

A tune would be nice....but what you described is most likely the nitro gas ram failed (Leaked gas I would think). Send the rifle back if it's still under warranty, or if you want to replace the ram yourself....use a spring compressor to be safe.

shadow · « **Reply #3 on:** May 04, 2012, 11:00:20 AM »

The ram has failed and I've come across this on ram tunes. I was getting a rash of bad rams in brand new airgun

and nothing against rams but another reason I love my springers. Ed

Plekto · « **Reply #4 on:** May 04, 2012, 11:24:21 AM »

Quality control and China are evidently not synonymous.

Bullit · « **Reply #5 on:** May 04, 2012, 02:19:45 PM »

Quote from: shadow on May 04, 2012, 11:00:20 AM

The ram has failed and I've come across this on ram tunes. I was getting a rash of bad rams in brand new airgun and nothing against rams but another reason I love my springers. Ed

X2 Ed. It is a great idea that suffers from cheap componentry. Too Bad.
John B, VORTEK is the Crosman's trade gas piston. Are you saying they are also making them for Gamo?

Night-Hawk · « **Reply #6 on:** May 04, 2012, 10:02:19 PM »

I happened to find the tune guide on my desk top. Then I remembered I got it on CDT website http://charliedatuna.com/Airgun%20Info.htm but that particular file was no longer listed so, Charlie took it off for some reason or my memory is wrong about where I got it. If you want to send me a message off board I can send you the link, if that's a problem for anyone let me know.

Well, I think I have opened up a can of worms. I bought it back in August of 2010 so it is out of warranty and Pyramid Air will not sell the piston, they say they must install it. This tells me they want to maintain control and that is usually about money. I don't like that at all for several reasons and obviously I'm not alone....and the price for the gun originally...now another $120 plus to fix for maybe 200-300 more rounds if that! I am very fond of the gun as I can leave it cocked and it's quite and recoil is nothing. I bought it for my RC controlled rifle rest for those features and since I'm knee deep in trying to get that to work, I need to figure out a good solution to find another source for a replacement piston or build one. If anyone has any sources for gas pistons please let me know otherwise I'll post back with my progress when I make some.......

Charles Outdoors · « **Reply #7 on:** May 04, 2012, 10:36:25 PM »

Quote from: shadow on May 04, 2012, 11:00:20 AM

The ram has failed and I've come across this on ram tunes. I was getting a rash of bad rams in brand new airgun and nothing against rams but another reason I love my springers. Ed

Is that the Gamo gas rams or just rams in generally?

Bullit · « **Reply #8 on:** May 05, 2012, 06:41:01 PM »

John the gas spring AG has been around this forum for a couple years. I'm no proponent of the current mass-produced units sold. The Theoben was the first good unit, but it's costly. Vortek was Crosman's unit (Import Asia),and most likely so is Gamo's unit. There are a few who now are trying out industrial gas springs...nothing new there.

CharlieDaTuna · « **Reply #9 on:** May 05, 2012, 09:10:44 PM »

The link is still on the website Airgun Info page but it is a little further down the page. It is where it has always been.

http://charliedatuna.com/Airgun%20Info.htm

Here is the direct link

http://www.charliedatuna.com/airgun_docs/B19%20Super%20Tune.doc

CDT

Charles Outdoors · « **Reply #10 on:** May 05, 2012, 10:27:38 PM »

As I understand it Vortek made the gas springs. Same Vortek that makes the tune kits now. Crosman bought exclusive rights to sell the Vortek gas rams and changed the name to Nitro Piston. Somehow Crosman ended up having them made in China. Not sure if Vortek actually made them before or had them made.

Bullit · « **Reply #11 on:** May 06, 2012, 10:28:20 AM »

China

supertech77 · « **Reply #12 on:** May 06, 2012, 10:59:07 AM »

here's one site http://www.n-forcer.com/content/pdf/Mini.pdf there 60.00 or so and there are some great post on them in china gate,also ( tarheel ) has some great info on np,s

http://www.n-forcer.com/images/pdf/accessories.pdf

Night-Hawk · « **Reply #13 on:** May 07, 2012, 05:28:13 PM »

Quote from: supertech77 on May 06, 2012, 10:59:07 AM

....there are some great post on them in china gate,also ( tarheel ) has some great info on np,s http://www.n-forcer.com/images/pdf/accessories.pdf

supertech77...I did some advanced searches on tarheel's topics and posts but could not turn up anything I understood to be pertinent to the Gamo at this point since I'm new to it all. If it is not too much trouble could you be more specific on the info you are referring to that he has.... that would be helpful and I can chipher through it from there? BTW, I have contacted N-forcer and they are very open to working with me. They have requested I idintify the cylinder, fittings and force needed...basically any and all info I can come up with to identify what I have.

For anyone who is interested- I talked to a couple of other "gas spring" manufacturers also. One gentleman pointed out there are two types of gas springs, related industries so to speak yet a bit different in applications. His industry dealt with slow moving lighter loads and smaller diameter pistons and cylinders. Mainly used as "struts" for load control with one to two second extensions and/or returns. Although he could not help me he pointed me to a company in the other industry which is referred to as the "stamping" industry (Not N-Forcer although they are in the stamping industry). Rods and cylinders are heavier because the gas is compressed under higher pressures and the work done is at faster rates.

The second company's spokesman was firm to say they would not deal with selling gas springs to anyone or any business outside the stamping industry per their policy. The first gentleman also mentioned that there is a problem with replicating gas springs already made and available on the market as there could be some type of legal infrigment. However, he had no problem also saying that once my gas spring was identified, they could build a new "style" to fit my application if I needed their strut type gas spring.

So, I'm guessing patents must exist for certain applications and the work around is to build stock gas springs and call them custom made for unique applications. Anyway, between what I heard and the lock PA has on the product, something is wierd about it all in IMHO. But, I have a vivid imagination also. Hopefully, I will get the gas spring out of the gun tommorrow and should have more info coming this week or next....

supertech77 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 07, 2012, 07:07:15 PM »

yep tarheel has some info on molher or something like that. that deals to the public and those np are even stronger than the n-forcer np.basic is look under np.in the library or e-mail tarheel,he,s a great gut,surely he can help.look also in turkish gate,and find him.

Tarheel · « **Reply #15 on:** May 07, 2012, 07:35:46 PM »

Quote from: Plekto on May 04, 2012, 11:24:21 AM

Quality control and China are evidently not synonymous.

You have a talent for "understatement" . . . LOL !

Dave

Tarheel · « **Reply #16 on:** May 07, 2012, 07:51:58 PM »

Quote from: Night-Hawk on May 07, 2012, 05:28:13 PM

supertech77...I did some advanced searches on tarheel's topics and posts but could not turn up anything I understood to be pertinent to the Gamo at this point since I'm new to it all. If it is not too much trouble could you be more specific on the info you are referring to that he has.... that would be helpful and I can chipher through it from there? BTW, I have contacted N-forcer and they are very open to working with me. They have requested I idintify the cylinder, fittings and force needed...basically any and all info I can come up with to identify what I have.

The second company's spokesman was firm to say they would not deal with selling gas springs to anyone or any business outside the stamping industry per their policy. The first gentleman also mentioned that there is a problem with replicating gas springs already made and available on the market as there could be some type of legal infrigment. However, he had no problem also saying that once my gas spring was identified, they could build a new "style" to fit my application if I needed their strut type gas spring.

Night-Hawk,

First of all, slow down and relax . . .

If your rifle is not covered under warranty, you can still replace the Nitro Piston.

I am not a GAMO person, but will try to help you out, if I can.

The "Nitro Piston" used in air rifles is actually called a "Nitrogen Gas Spring" . . . The size most commonly used has a 19mm outside diameter and a stroke length ranging from 80mm - 125 mm, depending on the stroke length of the rifle in question.

Depending on the power output of you rifle you would likely be looking at a "Blue" or "Red" rated gas ram. They are color-coded by internal pressure.

Click to ENLARGE . . .

Any of the tuners on GTA should be able to replace it for you, if you are unable to replace it yourself.

Come on over to the TURKISH Gate and we'll see about getting things lined up for you !

Dave

Tarheel · « **Reply #17 on:** May 07, 2012, 07:55:20 PM »

Quote from: supertech77 on May 07, 2012, 07:07:15 PM

yep tarheel has some info on molher or something like that. that deals to the public and those np are even stronger than the n-forcer np.basic is look under np.in the library or e-mail tarheel,he,s a great gut,surely he can help.look also in turkish gate,and find him.

For a GAMO, I would not recommend trying to use a higher-pressure gas ram. I have heard from tuners on GTA that the Sear and Trigger mechanism on GAMO rifles limits the maximum safe level . . . Safety is MOST important !

Dave

Bullit · « **Reply #18 on:** May 07, 2012, 08:09:08 PM »

Most don't consider the metal wear/fatigue when upping the powerplant as much as the industrial gas springs can do.
Kinda was hoping the guys (Dave, etc.), who recommend using these pistons could shed insight on the the wear of the sear from a higher resistant gas piston assy. Further, could recommend air rifles that shouldn't use this powerplant option.
This is a new concept, with a long-term safety issue to consider.
I wouldn't classify it (yet), as a "Plug and Play" modification.

Tarheel · « **Reply #19 on:** May 07, 2012, 08:28:44 PM »

Quote from: kymike on May 07, 2012, 08:09:08 PM

Most don't consider the metal wear/fatigue when upping the powerplant as much as the industrial gas springs can do.
Kinda was hoping the guys (Dave, etc.), who recommend using these pistons could shed insight on the the wear of the sear from a higher resistant gas piston assy. Further, could recommend air rifles that shouldn't use this powerplant option.
This is a new concept, with a long-term safety issue to consider.
I wouldn't classify it (yet), as a "Plug and Play" modification.

The only data we have comes from being "hands-on" with Turkish Hatsan rifles, makers of Walther ( Falcon Hunter & Talon Magnum ) . . . We have heard no reports of any premature wear or parts failure. One rifle has already been shot over 3500 times without any problems and that is with a "Yellow" power level gas ram.

With that said, the Hastan triggers and the relatively new Hatsan Quattro trigger are NOT comparable to the GAMO triggers in terms of strength, design and / or quality of materials used. It is best to stay close to stock limits with GAMO rifles, until people have done more work and testing with them.

I believe that Gas Rams are the "way of the future" and will, eventually replace coil springs for the most part.

Dave

Thank you to our advertisers!

nitro piston failure

Author Topic: nitro piston failure (Read 19512 times))

Night-Hawk

Night-Hawk

Night-Hawk