Chart showing minimum fpe to kill various animals

[CarsonRatSniper]

My starting point I will begin testing from is listed in the attached chart.

I have it broken down into TWO categories: Brain shots and Heart/Lung shots

Each category lists minimum calibers based on the diameter of the projectile to cause enough tissue damage to effectively incapacitate the intended target (brain/heart/lungs).

These tests are only to confirm that the particular projectile at 'x' foot pounds can be delivered consistently through the required depth of ballistic media to reach the vital organ targeted.

It does not consider hydrostatic shock, hydraulic cavitation, temporary or permanent wound channels - so please don't flame me for some of the starting points I listed.

I do feel the minimum calibers shown are good ones for taking heart/lung shots on the game they are listed next to.

My ballistic media will be water soaked newsprint (it's cheap!) with some form of barrier to represent the individual thicknesses for brain shots equivelant to skull thickness of the intended species.
I will try to duplicate elasticity for the varying skin thicknesses for body shots too.

Testing will begin mid next week.............................

[AudiS4]

My starting point I will begin testing from is listed in the attached chart.

I have it broken down into TWO categories: Brain shots and Heart/Lung shots

Each category lists minimum calibers based on the diameter of the projectile to cause enough tissue damage to effectively incapacitate the intended target (brain/heart/lungs).

These tests are only to confirm that the particular projectile at 'x' foot pounds can be delivered consistently through the required depth of ballistic media to reach the vital organ targeted.

It does not consider hydrostatic shock, hydraulic cavitation, temporary or permanent wound channels - so please don't flame me for some of the starting points I listed.

I do feel the minimum calibers shown are good ones for taking heart/lung shots on the game they are listed next to.

My ballistic media will be water soaked newsprint (it's cheap!) with some form of barrier to represent the individual thicknesses for brain shots equivelant to skull thickness of the intended species.
I will try to duplicate elasticity for the varying skin thicknesses for body shots too.

Testing will begin mid next week.............................

All I can say is WOW, and WHY WHY WHY...........?

Make something more valuable of your time.

[stonykill]

 Carson, since you explained why, I understand. Will the state listen? Who knows.

   I will of course continue to do what I know works from experience. However I do understand the why

[Nomadic Pirate]

My starting point I will begin testing from is listed in the attached chart.

I have it broken down into TWO categories: Brain shots and Heart/Lung shots

Each category lists minimum calibers based on the diameter of the projectile to cause enough tissue damage to effectively incapacitate the intended target (brain/heart/lungs).

These tests are only to confirm that the particular projectile at 'x' foot pounds can be delivered consistently through the required depth of ballistic media to reach the vital organ targeted.

It does not consider hydrostatic shock, hydraulic cavitation, temporary or permanent wound channels - so please don't flame me for some of the starting points I listed.

I do feel the minimum calibers shown are good ones for taking heart/lung shots on the game they are listed next to.

My ballistic media will be water soaked newsprint (it's cheap!) with some form of barrier to represent the individual thicknesses for brain shots equivelant to skull thickness of the intended species.
I will try to duplicate elasticity for the varying skin thicknesses for body shots too.

Testing will begin mid next week.............................

All I can say is WOW, and WHY WHY WHY...........?

Make something more valuable of your time.

really ? ...that's how you learn, when you decide to shoot at animals you better know exactly what your gun/guns are capable off.

[Nomadic Pirate]

I put Black Bear on there because they are listed as legal to hunt using a .35 caliber or larger PCP in Arizona.
Check Page 108 of their Method of Take regulations (listed in their Hunt pamphlet).
Would I take a Black Bear with my tuned Recluse?
Depends. Ground level with the bear maybe not a good idea. From an elevated tree stand I think I would go for it.

The numbers help new airgunners buy the right equipment for their needs;
It also puts some hard data behind trying to get airguns on the books to hunt big game with in our State.

No data = no serious look at it from the powers that be.

I'll go on a Bear hunt with you

[Tater]

All I can say is WOW, and WHY WHY WHY...........?

Make something more valuable of your time.

As he already said, numbers/data are needed to try to get laws changed.

[CarsonRatSniper]

First off, I see no other way I would rather spend my two days off than getting cozy with all of my air guns doing something other than punching paper and throwing good lead down range for nothing.....besides, the ground squirrels aren't out of hibernation yet! 

Manny, you're on for that bear hunt! 
Your hunts are what made me change brain shots on a wild boar to 22 caliber.

I can tell you from experience if you present a very well informed and documened case including well researched hard data via scientific method it has a massive positive influence on the outcome you are trying to achieve.
I have a couple of e mails and phone calls into the Arizona Fish & Game Dept asking for their research data on air guns that swayed them into adopting the laws they have on the books, but they must be busy...

If I get Idaho to see things my way maybe my efforts can be used in other States across the country.
I already have a full blown lesson plan and class put together for hunters education, so let's see where this goes.........

[AudiS4]

I know the "why he does it", but why do all the work, and not use proper ballistic media and skins. If you need to change laws, you need something other than a redneck approach, I would hope. Are the dept that easy to sway?

If so, best of luck to you, but the hole, "minimum kill force", is a wrong entry point. That just makes for the "Ooweeh look at me, I just killed a bison with my Diana 34, at 80 yards" people crawling out from under their stones...

[CarsonRatSniper]

That is exactly why there are caliber restrictions so some idiot doesn't try doing exactly that.
The premise is to get away from the entire 'minimum foot pounds' approach because that is why most states do not allow air gun hunting in the first place!
Needing 500 ft lbs to kill a deer is garbage and that is what these penetration tests prove - but the question needs to be answered 'what is the minimum ft lbs required to reach the vitals?' to prove my point.
Data needs to be presented not opinions.
I am trying to get a minimum of .35 caliber PCP's on the books in my State.
My factory Recluse is a 147 ft lb gun - I promise you at 50 yards I will still get a pass through on a whitetail with a body shot using 77 grain JSB pellets.
I only advocate body shots but since I will be testing why not entertain the brain shots too?
Manny has proven over and over hunter skill level will bring home the bacon (literally!) with something most people look down upon as being undergunned.

The Devils Advocate approach is nice but just proves WHY this needs to be done.

Ballistic gel is very expensive and I already looked at temp stable alternatives.
At least my redneck data will set a baseline and open the door for the State Fish & Game to take a look at it and maybe help with 'proper' ballistic testing.
For what its worth, soaked newsprint has been an accepted penetration media for decades before ballistic gel came out.

I am talking to my local butcher to see what I can acquire on the cheap - trimmings, fat, hide, etc...
I just KNOW if nothing else I can use soaked newsprint.

Did you even look at my chart?

What are YOU doing to try and advance this sport?
Not being hostile or anything - this type of unacceptance or a willingness to undertake this on your own is why this is such a slow process.
If more people would contribute hard data and documentation there could be a resource people like me could pull from to assist in getting game laws on the books.

There is nothing in Idaho that says I 'CAN'T' hunt deer wih an air gun - it says no rimfires and no fully automatic guns.
I want it in black and white in the regulations that says I 'CAN'.

Maybe once data and documentation is compiled the GTA Mods can put it together as a sticky resource in the Hunting Gate.

[DavidS]

@CarsonRatSniper:
Interesting data in your chart.   May I ask how you tested to get those numbers?


And it does seem reasonable to go with caliber restrictions for getting the states on the correct track.   Though do keep in mind that there are .25 cal guns that produce less than 12FPE at the muzzle.    So a little more is needed.


Though from your chart a couple of my MSP .22 cal guns are enough for a head shot on Boar, and I would never take that shot with one of them.  Maybe with one of my more powerful .25 cal MSPs, though not with any of my .22 MSPs.

[stonykill]

keep at it Carson. AG's are misunderstood for sure by the masses. HOWEVER ... I think that is a good thing. My fear is once they are understood by the lawmakers we will see even more restrictions on them. I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't trust those in power

[Nomadic Pirate]

What's an MSP ?

[Habanero69er]

I was always told: 2FPE x 1lb of animal body weight. So a 10lb raccoon would take 20FPE to humanely dispatch. 

[DavidS]

What's an MSP ?

Multi Stroke Pneumatic.

Like the Benjamin 392, Crosman 2289, Daisy 880, Custom .25 cal pumper, etc.

[Tater]

What's an MSP ?

Multi-stroke Pneumatic?

[DavidS]

What's an MSP ?

multi-stroke Pnuematic?

Yes as in a "Pumper".

[Nomadic Pirate]

As a Boar you mean Hog ? .....never heard of a Pumper that gets more than 20 FPE

[stonykill]

I was always told: 2FPE x 1lb of animal body weight. So a 10lb raccoon would take 20FPE to humanely dispatch.

  I have never killed a coon that small and always used way less power than that. I kill 20 to 25 lb coons with 12 FPE, one shot well placed in the brain and dead. Your results may vary, but I know what I can do. Coons in a trap get the 8fpe treatment point blank, inches from the brain. Dead, one shot.

   Head shots are all I ever take on coons after an experience 25 years ago with a .22 powder burner and 5 shots to the engine room and the coon was still walking. #6 went to the head and it dropped. Since then brain shots only for me on them

   Again, MY expriences. NOT saying this is what YOU or anyone else should do.

[TimmyMac1]

As a Boar you mean Hog ? .....never heard of a Pumper that gets more than 20 FPE

392 Billet Steroid will deliver over 25 FPE. It takes 14 pumps and normally 12 will get you 20+ FPE

TimmyMac1

[Nomadic Pirate]

OK I stand corrected 25 FPE