Is .20 cal worth it?



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Offline Wasi11

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Re: Is .20 cal worth it?
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2012, 07:25:57 AM »
Bob,
Thanks for all the great info. If I may ask just one more question. If the jsb's are essentially the same rather than shooting the really heavy .177 would it not be easier to move up to .20 to get simmilar weighted pellets. Also the .20 would be shorter if of comparable weight. Therfore easier to stabalize with the slow twist rate? Also if weight wasn't a factor why shouldn't I shoot 7 grain projectiles to get even higher velocity? I uderstand the BC being a factor that makes sense. The round nose retain their velocity the best which is logical due to the decreased drag.
You have to understand my skepticism. If there was a resounding group answer I wouldn't have a doubt in my mind, but as of now I've heard one of each. I'd do some chairgun calculations but I don't have chrony numbers.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2012, 07:46:29 AM by Wasi11 »
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Offline tjk

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Re: Is .20 cal worth it?
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2012, 08:12:00 AM »
"Worst of both worlds, best of both", kind of lIke saying the glass is half full or half empty. 5mm is a great caliber, and with the better made Airguns, the pellet selection or lack thereof is rather a trivial subject of discussion. It's an awesome hunting caliber, but I don't see why it wouldn't be a l superb long range target/ paper punching round. I own several .20's and love them as much as my other calibered Airguns. My RX1 shooting Benji cylindricals at a blazing velocity of 600 fps is every bit as accurate as you could ask for in a quality Airgun. Squirrel eye accurate too ;)
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Offline Mark 611

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Re: Is .20 cal worth it?
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2012, 08:14:00 AM »
I'm gonna give you something else to concider all of the good .20cal pellets come from over seas country's and if we have a economic melt down their will be no more pellets for your rifle! nobody here in the states makes a decent weight pellet for the power plant, yes Crosman makes a 14.3gr pellet in .20cal and IMO its way to heavy for these gun's  :P
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Offline tjk

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Re: Is .20 cal worth it?
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2012, 09:48:27 AM »
That is a sad fact Mark and I agree about the  Crosman pellets being way to heavy for a wire sprung piston Airgun. I should have mentionned they are better suited for ram powered piston guns. Let's hope the European market doesn't collapse!! Too bad we don't have more pellet variety in the domestic US market.
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Offline Mark 611

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Re: Is .20 cal worth it?
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2012, 10:13:08 AM »
Tom you know I and others have tried to push Crosman to produce more variety in their pellet line up for the .20cal just to fall on deaf ears! :-X Crosman could fill the gap but they chose not to! :P
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Online rsterne

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Re: Is .20 cal worth it?
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2012, 01:09:31 PM »
If you compare the same weight pellets in all three calibers then obviously the bigger bore pellets will be shorter, and have a lower SD.... Since the BC is proportional to the SD, then the BC will be less as well.... The larger caliber, because of the bigger base area (same pressure, more area = more force), will launch the pellet faster and with more energy, however.... The bigger pellets will start off faster but slow down quicker, and therefore suffer more from wind drift....

Twist rates are not an issue in airguns.... at least not with normal twist rates and commercially available pellets.... They have plenty of stability.... The only time you might have to worry about the twist rate is with long, cast bullets like they use in the big bores.... maybe.... Our diablo (waisted) pellets are also drag stabilzed, and I've read that the new "smooth-twist" barrel used  by FX has a twist rate of 1 in 13 FEET (1 in 156").... which in theory IS too slow to work.... Like I said, twist is not an issue....

Shooting a 7 gr. pellet in .177 will, indeed, give you a higher velocity (in that gun, transonic >900 fps).... That will have two negative affects.... A. the BC will be dismal because the velocity is in the transonic region.... and B. the accuracy may suffer because of the buffetting that occurs in transonic flight.... That is why I chose the 10 gr.+ pellets in .177 for my comparison.... I would bet money that the best wind-bucking ability in a .177 HW97 will be with the heavier pellets, even though their initial velocity is less....

Normally, I would be recommending a .22 cal, as it is by far my favourite, especially for hunting.... If two pellets have the same energy, the heavier one will have more MOMENTUM (knock down power).... If you were comparing a less powerful gun, one that didn't handle the 10+ gr. pellets well in .177, then I would be looking at how it would perform with lighter pellets.... That becomes more of the classic argument of velocity and flat trajectory (with a .177) vs. hitting power and often times better performance in the wind (with a .22).... If you stepped up in power to a PCP, then IMO, the .22 is the only game in town (or even the .25 if the gun is powerful enough).... As the power increases, and you can't get accurate pellets (with a good BC) that are heavy enough to keep the velocity under about 950 fps.... then you have no chioce but to go up in caliber.... The benefit is that in general, the BC increases with caliber....

You are in a unique situation, looking at a gun that will handle heavy pellets in .177 well.... and you are NOT interesting in hunting.... That is why I made the recommendation I did....

Bob
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Offline Mark 611

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Re: Is .20 cal worth it?
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2012, 01:28:59 PM »
me too and I agree 100% :P
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Offline Wasi11

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Re: Is .20 cal worth it?
« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2012, 06:00:45 PM »
Thanks bob for all the great info and recomendations. Sorry I was skeptical at first but it seems you and the members of GTA really know your stuff. Really neat about the smooth twist rate. I had no idea the twist rate was so slow!
Thank you to everybody that contributed to this discussion I'm really glad I found this fourm.
In terms of desicion i might just flip a coin seeing how each caliber has it's advant. and disadvant. Will definatly consider the .177 now.
Mike
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Offline dust

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Re: Is .20 cal worth it?
« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2012, 09:47:40 PM »
To me, the .20 is like a 16ga.  the middle child.  12ga is cheap and strong.  20ga is cheap and light for beginners.  16ga isn't all that cheap, and honestly kicks worse than 12 gauges.  I don't see a reason to own a .20 unless it has some sentimental value.

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Re: Is .20 cal worth it?
« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2012, 01:58:03 PM »
I think everybody should stay away from .20 and sell all their .20 cal guns, that way I can get a couple good deals on guns and the retailers will never run out of ammo for me.  Ive had 2 .20 cal HW97, an RX2 .20 and now I only have the R1 .20, I loved them all. I like .177 for paper only, not saying you cant hunt with it but I use my bigger caliber PCP's, and all I hunt is ground squirrels and rabbits mostly. But when I hit the mountains for tree squirrels and barns for pigeon I like my .20 R1.

Online Bryan H.

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Re: Is .20 cal worth it?
« Reply #30 on: March 09, 2012, 02:36:52 PM »
I think you just have to try it an see for yourself.  I pretty much order all my pellets online as it is, because it's worth it to me if I can run through a full tin without flyers vs. one or two in ten shots.  18 grn JSB exacts and Beeman Kodiaks offer me that, plus better muzzle energy and way more retained energy over anything I can get off the shelf.  I run nothing but Daisy pointed through my .22 B3- cheapest .22 pellet there is and it actually shoots them as good better than anything else I've tried in it-  I still have to order them on-line though.  Great cheap plinking pellets for a great cheap plinking gun.  The only thing I don't get online is CPUM's for my .177 pumpers (would be cheaper on-line but it's convenient to get em at Dick's near home), and Crosman pointed from wally world for my .177 B3.  The only thing that is holding me back from getting something in .20 at this point is the fact that guns that come in .20 are out of my price range for the time being.  I'd love to have an R-1 in .20!!
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Offline grumpy

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Re: Is .20 cal worth it?
« Reply #31 on: March 09, 2012, 07:47:39 PM »
I would love to have an RX2 in .20 cal. Also I don't seem to have any problem finding .20 cal ammo. Then again I live near one of the best air gun stores around :)

My .20 cal HW30 sees it share of paper punching out back. I would not hesitate taking a nutter at distance under 20 yards with it. Over 20 yards would not be good, but thats more a short coming of the HW30, not the caliber choice.

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Online Bryan H.

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Re: Is .20 cal worth it?
« Reply #32 on: March 09, 2012, 07:56:16 PM »
I would love to have an RX2 in .20 cal.

Where have you seen them?  I thought this one was only available in .177, .22 & .25.  I want one of these soooo bad, either in .20 or in .25
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Offline Random Plinker

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Re: Is .20 cal worth it?
« Reply #33 on: March 09, 2012, 08:55:03 PM »
Pyramid tells you how many options they have for pellets in each caliber:

177 - 168
20   -  19
22   -  90
25   -  38

I've never gone through 19 different pellets to find one a rifle likes, but the relative availability is still telling I think.
TX200 LH Walnut 177 UTG 4-16x44 SWAT
HW95 177 UTG 4-16x40AO
BAM B26 177 Williams FP-AG-TK
Gamo BigCat 177 UTG 3-9x32AO
Daisy 853 177 CMP SSP
QB78D 177 Xisico 4x32AO
Crosman 2300T 177 Open LPA Sights RB Grips

Offline RedFeather

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Re: Is .20 cal worth it?
« Reply #34 on: March 10, 2012, 12:12:50 AM »
Numbers are fun but, I think with springers, they don't always add up.  While powder burners can be temperamental, springers can be downright worse.  That's the reason I said that, no matter what BC a pellet has, it's up to the gun as to whether or not it shoots well.  All stars may align except for that one.  Personally, if you like the .20, go for it.  With good pellets like the JSB, you should do fine.  I think it's a lot more important to decide on which gun rather than .22 or .20.  I'm sure that an RX in either will be comparable.  Good luck and have fun!

About ordering since you are an hour and a half from a store, I'm already thinking about that when it's only a twenty-five/thirty minute drive.  $4/gallon adds up!

Offline grumpy

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Re: Is .20 cal worth it?
« Reply #35 on: March 10, 2012, 12:34:55 AM »
Sorry I was thinking the RX 1 in .20 cal

I would love to have an RX2 in .20 cal.

Where have you seen them?  I thought this one was only available in .177, .22 & .25.  I want one of these soooo bad, either in .20 or in .25
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Offline Ballistik_.20

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Re: Is .20 cal worth it?
« Reply #36 on: March 10, 2012, 07:42:16 AM »
I primarily hunt but target practicing in the back yard at 40 yds is fun too. The .20 is def. a louder calibre so if neighbors are an issue and paper punching is its sole purpose then .177 makes more sense.
In my experience all of the top manufacturers make .20 ammo and i have 6 different brands,weights, grains that my R1 loves, just depends on what i want to shoot. IMO it gives you the BEST of both worlds.

".20 caliber (5mm) is a perfect example of obtaining large ballistic gains in performance with small, optimal changes compared to .177 caliber. The 5mm trajectory remains nearly as flat, but its heavier weight lets it carry about 40% more energy for the same velocity. This is the best general purpose caliber." -Beeman Precision Airguns
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Offline mtsheron70

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Re: Is .20 cal worth it?
« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2012, 11:09:28 AM »
I am intrigued by a .20 caliber but with so many options on weights in .22 caliber I would opt for the .22 myself.  But you have to buy what you want and for a specific purpose.  I would listen to all the good advice and make a informed decision.  Good luck and whatever you get, you must post pictures!!!!!!!

Offline woody67

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Re: Is .20 cal worth it?
« Reply #38 on: March 15, 2012, 06:12:50 PM »
I'm personally not a fan of .20

I prefer .22 or .25, although the .177 and .20 are good for nice straight zinging shots!

How do you word it... "Air Guns" or "AirGuns"?