Author Topic: So much for Quality controll from HW (Read 14393 times))

condor22 · « **on:** December 30, 2011, 07:16:42 PM »

Weihrauch fail...! http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1325282458/Weihrauch+fail...! So much for all the Hype about the High quality control, or no droop problems for Hw! This rifle the compression tube breaks into two parts. Never read anything like that happening to any other brand, not even the Chinese spring guns?

I have nothing against HW, but I'll stick to my guns, RWS, Remington and CZ that is.

Sam

lizzie · « **Reply #1 on:** December 30, 2011, 08:03:26 PM »

I think I recall another thread about HW quality issues when I first joined here. Not the same problem, but an off-center bore, if I remember correctly.

Real sorry to hear about this. This wasn't your own gun, was it?

samTN · « **Reply #2 on:** December 30, 2011, 09:22:29 PM »

I myself stopped buying the new product but instead am looking for the old Beeman/Weihrauch products. I too have a new HW80 with a dent on the receiver tube cylinder where it breaks at the barrel.

lizzie · « **Reply #3 on:** December 30, 2011, 09:27:15 PM »

Quote from: samTN on December 30, 2011, 09:22:29 PM

I myself stopped buying the new product but instead am looking for the old Beeman/Weihrauch products. I too have a new HW80 with a dent on the receiver tube cylinder where it breaks at the barrel.

Same here with looking for older models. One of my first considerations with buying any airgun, is the age. I like guns in the 10-30 year-old range.

daveshoot · « **Reply #4 on:** December 30, 2011, 10:12:03 PM »

It is a great thread to bookmark for the "all Chinese guns are cr@p" crowd.

That said, in my limited experience, I will take HW quality over most of the brands I think i know. I dunno how this one slipped out, but we haven't heard the other side of the story yet, either.

I have an R7, HW-40, and HW-45 off the top of my head from Weihrauch.

Imagine if this was a Crosman... or a China brand... the naysayers would pile on.

The RWS5G safety lever issue (fires on cocking) is arguably worse than most reported AG manufacturing failures. I had one, and it will definitely wake you up when it happens (reminds you why there are range procedures). It finally resulted in a recall and rightfully so.

I hope HW addresses the issue promptly and puts this away. If it costs a few euros, so be it.

EMrider · « **Reply #5 on:** December 30, 2011, 10:26:10 PM »

Quote from: condor22 on December 30, 2011, 07:16:42 PM

Weihrauch fail...! http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1325282458/Weihrauch+fail...! So much for all the Hype about the High quality control, or no droop problems for Hw! This rifle the compression tube breaks into two parts. Never read anything like that happening to any other brand, not even the Chinese spring guns?

I have nothing against HW, but I'll stick to my guns, RWS, Remington and CZ that is.

Sam

Yep, I guess this does away with all the HW quality hype. Geez............

R

lizzie · « **Reply #6 on:** December 30, 2011, 10:59:22 PM »

Quote from: EMrider on December 30, 2011, 10:26:10 PM

Quote from: condor22 on December 30, 2011, 07:16:42 PM
Weihrauch fail...! http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1325282458/Weihrauch+fail...! So much for all the Hype about the High quality control, or no droop problems for Hw! This rifle the compression tube breaks into two parts. Never read anything like that happening to any other brand, not even the Chinese spring guns?

I have nothing against HW, but I'll stick to my guns, RWS, Remington and CZ that is.

Sam

Yep, I guess this does away with all the HW quality hype. Geez............

R

Well, frankly, no manufacturer should be sending a gun out for purchase with this problem. I would be pretty upset if I had bought it, regardless of brand.

EMrider · « **Reply #7 on:** December 31, 2011, 01:52:12 AM »

Quote from: lizzie on December 30, 2011, 10:59:22 PM

Quote from: EMrider on December 30, 2011, 10:26:10 PM
Quote from: condor22 on December 30, 2011, 07:16:42 PM
Weihrauch fail...! http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1325282458/Weihrauch+fail...! So much for all the Hype about the High quality control, or no droop problems for Hw! This rifle the compression tube breaks into two parts. Never read anything like that happening to any other brand, not even the Chinese spring guns?

I have nothing against HW, but I'll stick to my guns, RWS, Remington and CZ that is.

Sam

Yep, I guess this does away with all the HW quality hype. Geez............

R

Well, frankly, no manufacturer should be sending a gun out for purchase with this problem. I would be pretty upset if I had bought it, regardless of brand.
[/
Quote from: lizzie on December 30, 2011, 10:59:22 PM
Quote from: EMrider on December 30, 2011, 10:26:10 PM
Quote from: condor22 on December 30, 2011, 07:16:42 PM
Weihrauch fail...! http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1325282458/Weihrauch+fail...! So much for all the Hype about the High quality control, or no droop problems for Hw! This rifle the compression tube breaks into two parts. Never read anything like that happening to any other brand, not even the Chinese spring guns?

I have nothing against HW, but I'll stick to my guns, RWS, Remington and CZ that is.

Sam

Yep, I guess this does away with all the HW quality hype. Geez............

R

Well, frankly, no manufacturer should be sending a gun out for purchase with this problem. I would be pretty upset if I had bought it, regardless of brand.

I'd be ticked off too if this were my new hw30. But, the notion that a defect rate above 0% means that HW quality is all hype is nonsense. There is a difference between an anecdote and data. I've owned lots of quality products that break or fail. Extremely annoying if you are the unlucky owner, but also rare.

Now, show me a pattern of similar failures with HW guns and then the quality reputation is at risk.

R

bart the fart · « **Reply #8 on:** December 31, 2011, 02:29:14 PM »

HW made a bad gun or two? I will continue to buy HW when ever possible. Every manufacturer will put out a lemon or two from time to time. Sure I would be super cheesed off if that where my HW30, but I bet it was replaced with a sweet little gun, no questions asked. Not bagging on any other airgun maker or country of origin....but HW is a top tier company and will continue to be for many years to come...my 2 cent....Bart

condor22 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 31, 2011, 02:31:08 PM »

I read of 3 failures of that weld/solder joint in the post I linked to. How many failures of a weld are required to set a trend? 3 failures is more than enough for me to call it a 'TREND'!

Sam

bart the fart · « **Reply #10 on:** December 31, 2011, 02:48:52 PM »

Quote from: condor22 on December 31, 2011, 02:31:08 PM

I read of 3 failures of that weld/solder joint in the post I linked to. How many failures of a weld are required to set a trend? 3 is failures is more than enough for me to call it a 'TREND'!

Sam

A trend? LOL Three guns is not a tread. HW makes thousand's of guns yearly.
I was a welder for years and years in a very high end machine shop. When you yourself are in the high end manufacturing game you see problems happen. The machinest had a dull tool, the QC guy got dumped bye his wife, etc etc. My point is everyone is human. Crud happens in the manufacturing game.
A good example of this is Ruger and their "SR9" line of hand guns. In 2007 they where released and recalled in 2008. The problem was fixed and I bought one in 2011. I would and do trust that gun with my life and my family's.
Back to my original point HW makes top tier air rifles. Every company will produce a lemon from time to time.
I'll buy any and all HW(new or old) that I can afford....This is my opinion on HW. happy new years...Cheers Bart

grizzlyadams · « **Reply #11 on:** December 31, 2011, 03:33:18 PM »

just goes to show anyone thats human can mess up! hope it was one of those guys that bash all the "lesser than hw" guns!

lizzie · « **Reply #12 on:** December 31, 2011, 04:05:27 PM »

Quote from: bart the fart on December 31, 2011, 02:48:52 PM

Quote from: condor22 on December 31, 2011, 02:31:08 PM
I read of 3 failures of that weld/solder joint in the post I linked to. How many failures of a weld are required to set a trend? 3 is failures is more than enough for me to call it a 'TREND'!

Sam
A trend? LOL Three guns is not a tread. HW makes thousand's of guns yearly.
I was a welder for years and years in a very high end machine shop. When you yourself are in the high end manufacturing game you see problems happen. The machinest had a dull tool, the QC guy got dumped bye his wife, etc etc. My point is everyone is human. Crud happens in the manufacturing game.
A good example of this is Ruger and their "SR9" line of hand guns. In 2007 they where released and recalled in 2008. The problem was fixed and I bought one in 2011. I would and do trust that gun with my life and my family's.
Back to my original point HW makes top tier air rifles. Every company will produce a lemon from time to time.
I'll buy any and all HW(new or old) that I can afford....This is my opinion on HW. happy new years...Cheers Bart

I understand what you're saying Bart, but three fails is probably more than HW has previously had in their entire history.

I've never heard a single bad review of an HW until the past few months. I'm not saying they haven't happened, and I would happily buy an older model, but if an upper end manufacturer is having complaints, imagine the lower end ones.

bart the fart · « **Reply #13 on:** December 31, 2011, 04:27:02 PM »

Come to think of it ....I have never seen a "R" (re manufacture) HW. That says A LOT to me.
Man I'd go broke if HW was sold on AGD refurb's

P.S I'm not one of those stuck up "i only buy german" sort of guys. I own a lot more china guns then anything else...cheers Bart

lizzie · « **Reply #14 on:** December 31, 2011, 04:46:49 PM »

Quote from: bart the fart on December 31, 2011, 04:27:02 PM

Come to think of it ....I have never seen a "R" (re manufacture) HW. That says A LOT to me.
Man I'd go broke if HW was sold on AGD refurb's
P.S I'm not one of those stuck up "i only buy german" sort of guys. I own a lot more china guns then anything else...cheers Bart

Same here Bart. I'm not a "only buy German" gal, but based on my personal experience, they are usually more precisely manufactured historically. They are my favorites to shoot, and I'd give my eye teeth for an HW30, but you pay for the quality, and when I pay more, I expect more.

TOM aka critter99 · « **Reply #15 on:** December 31, 2011, 05:55:33 PM »

keep it all in perspective ....I'll bet you can easily find many more defect threads on cheaper rifles such as Diana....I will be curious about the customer support offered to the people with the defects...thats what matters

Will they brush them off like UMAREX or make it right???

Mark 611 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 31, 2011, 06:36:30 PM »

I spoke to some informed people on HW's problems not long ago and was told this, allot of the old workers have retired and they have a new breed of folks working for them now and they are still learning how to build airguns to the standards of what HW is all about! in a nut shell so their my be a few issues here and there FWIW!

Calmark · « **Reply #17 on:** January 01, 2012, 01:33:22 AM »

That photo definitely shows a pretty catastrophic failure of that HW30. Fortunately, I think that's the exception, rather than the rule with HW guns. I own 3 Huntington Beach models, so of recent vintage, and all perform extremely well and I'm glad to have them in my collection. I have yet to have a problem with any, but I feel bad for the guy who got that bad HW30. Definitely something that should fall under the warranty and I'm sure will be taken care of. I don't think as a general rule Weihrauch lets guns out like this from the factory, but as seen from this example, it can happen!

I hope they can correct oversights like this though, so it doesn't happen to others!

RedFeather · « **Reply #18 on:** January 01, 2012, 04:09:07 AM »

Bear trapped? That might do it. And who would want to lay claim to having done so? Not everyone. Then again, it might be some of the East meets West worker mentality creeping in. In understand that some of the German industries suffered from this during reunification. At any rate, the owner will, in all likelihood, be receiving a new HW. That's a bit more than a warranty repair.

Jaymo · « **Reply #19 on:** January 01, 2012, 06:20:38 PM »

Solder/braze joint failure can happen to anyone, for a number of different reasons, even if you do every thing right.
I wouldn't dog-pile HW just yet. Their guns, as a rule, are much better machined, fit, and finished than Diana, Gamo, and Chicom guns.
I'm not going to get rid of my Diana or Chicoms any timg soon, but I'd NEVER sell my HWs.

Funny that the Chicoms can make shiploads of garbage, yet the instant HW has a few bad apples, they "must" be caca.
As much as I like my Chinese springers, they cant hold a candle to my HWs, or even my Diana. Even after tuning, they're not as nice.

Do I think HW needs to tighten the QC leash after something like this? Yes.
Do I think it's something that could necessarily been found by a visual QC inspection at the factory?
Not necessarily. A lot of sins can go unseen by the naked eye.

Questions for the OP:
How much welding/brazing/soldering do you do?

How many HW airguns do you own/shoot?

I guess we should decry the Diana QC fail and dogpile them for the many documented cases of Diana spring breakage.
It's the exact same logic, except that there have been a lot more Dianas with spring failure issues than there have been HWs with ANY non-user-induced failures.

Not trying to come down on you, but you appear to have been chomping at the bit to slam HW in favor of Chicom or Diana airguns.
I own all 3 and like all 3. I can not, however, try to fool myself into thinking my Chicoms or Dianas are anywhere near as nice as my HWs.
Given the price difference, I wouldn't expect them to be.

That said, I'm not excusing the failures. No one should shell out good money for what turns out to be a paperweight. The Mfr should make good on it, provided it wasn't caused by the owner bear-trapping it.
If it's a failure of materials/workmanship, they should give him a new gun and some freebies.
If it was caused by negligence on the part of the owner, the owner just learned an expensive lesson.

BTW, "Oop, mah bad" is NOT an acceptable reply from the Mfr.

Once again, not flaming anyone. Not slamming Diana. Not slamming Chicom springers.
I own all three and wouldn't get rid of any of them.
Not crazy about the way Gamos have been going lately with all the plastic. Would still own one if they made one that appeals to me.

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So much for Quality controll from HW

Author Topic: So much for Quality controll from HW (Read 14393 times))

Jaymo