Airforce Texan SS .357 power level disappointment

[redlined_b16a]

Early December my frie d ordered a Carbine. 357 since I cast alot of .357 for my bulldog ammo is abundant.

Did not put the Carbine on the chrono but it was harder hitting and faster shooting than my Bulldog which is modded and shoots 150grain slugs at 840-850 fps.....about 245 ft pounds.

So I wanted the Carbine as well......none in stock I choose the SS model.
Supposedly the same gun and barrel.

The SS is quieter than the Carbine with the Donny FL Emperor V3 and that ain't right.
Shooting into oak blocks the Carbine is alot more power.
Removing both suppressors Carbine is louder.
Shooting 100 yards with 35 yard zeros the Carbine drops about 2"
SS drops about 14"
Same 150 grain ammo......same power wheel settings(even maxed out the SS)

Today I get a chance to chrono the SS and its asub 200 ft pound gun.
Highest fps was 736 fps.

Put my airtank on his gun and his was still more powerful.

What's your thoughts?
For the $1000 gun I don't need a sub 200 ft pound

I shot 130 grains and it was 780 fps

[redlined_b16a]

Also the power wheel has zero resistance and no adjustments makes a diffrence

[Mr.P]

I think maybe the SS has a shorter barrel to make room for baffles in the shroud.

[mikeyb]

Shorter barrel to make room for baffles yes. I don't own one but according to this

https://www.airgundepot.com/airforce-texan-ss.html

that rifle should be able to exceed 200 ft-lbs ME.

I don't know the details on how the internals work but it sounds like a broken hammer spring?

[redlined_b16a]

Carbine and SS use the same 24.75" barrel

I had them both side x side with shroud off.
Its the same gun.

[redlined_b16a]

Hammer spring is intact.
Everything looks ok to me except the spring,Hammer or power wheel is to short
Maxed out the power wheel and it barely touches the spring.
I shimmed it with two orings and it's louder and hits harder.
Ill chrono it tomorrow......if it made it stronger I'll machine some spacers.
Does anyone else have measurements to compare?

[redlined_b16a]

Ran it across a chrono.....which only works in meters per second so I had to convert numbers.

Home casted from a Lee mold 150 grain round nose in pure lead sized .357 and they seat easy
Power wheel at max
3000 Psi
846
839
833
813
780
779. At this point it maintains 2200 psi for the next few shots
761
748
734
721
711 2100 psi
705
688 2000 psi

13 shots
Oring spacers helped bump power up but not enough.

If this was a pellet shooter I'd be semi ok with these numbers.

So sometime tonite I'll machine some pvc spacers.
Id like to push 150 grains in the 900's

5shots in the 260ishft pound range would be great.

I already have a 10 shot 240ft lb rig (Bulldog)

However I do like my slowly declining shots string.

[redlined_b16a]

I ran the Carbine over the chrono and its pushing
150 grains at 840 fps.
With my Ss Airtank.....I'll explain that in another thread.

Tonite ill pull the carbine apart and measure all the components.
Something or things are not right with these guns.

Called airforce and they claim 790 fos with 170 grain .358 slugs.
They also claim these require .358 not .357......yet its sold as a  357.
Neither of my guns came with a manual.

[redlined_b16a]

So a little bit of time has passed and both Texans have been broken......waiting on parts.
Racheal at Airforce(Super friendly and easy to work with) sent me parts and spares. Very pleased with customer service, the holidays destroyed fast shipping times.

Bring you up to speed:
New Texan Carbine .357 after a few shots developed an air valve leak, Removed valve and found a split in the delrin poppet...like a moron I refilled it...leaking to see if it would reseal. Had the tank off of the gun on my brothers kitchen counter. Pressure reached 2000 psi it was barely hissing air, bleed down my hose and BOOM! the valve poppet broke in half launching the tank across the house destroying everything it contacted shot the top hat/valve stem into the counter and into my forearm.

I believe it was 2 days later and still afraid of the Texans The new SS .357 was much a less power level than the Carbine. Testing hammer settings and ammo over a chrono the valve poppet started leaking.
Contacted Airforce and they were more than kind, sending out a complete new air tank for the Carbine and a complete new upper valve assembly for the SS.
At this point the Carbine shot 150 grain in the mid 800 feet per second on an 85 degree day at 3000 psi and the SS was shooting the same ammo same maxed out power wheel and pressures at 746 fps........that's a huge difference.

Now you are caught up.
Today I changed the Carbine Tank and the SS valve and chronographed both. Same pressure,same 45 degree temp and the same ammo size and weights. Here are the results. 5 shot groups and refills between ammo changes

Texan Carbine .357                                                                                                                  Texan SS .357
JSB 81 grain  Full Power wheel                                                                                                  JSB 81 grain  Full Power Wheel
3000 PSI                                                                                                                                 3000 PSI
1020 fps   187 ft lbs                                                                                                                 987 fps 175 ft lbs
984 fps                                                                                                                                    971
967                                                                                                                                         958
958                                                                                                                                         941
938 158 ft lbs 2200 psi                                                                                                2200 psi 921 152 ft lbs

130 grain ,357 pure lead 3000 psi
849   208 ft lbs                                                                                                                       849   208 ft lbs
823                                                                                                                                        823
813                                                                                                                                        813
797                                                                                                                                        803
793  2100 psi 181 ft lbs                                                                                                           790 2100 psi   180 ft lbs

150 grain .358 pure lead 3000 psi
816    221 ft lbs                                                                                                                      803  214 ft lbs
800                                                                                                                                        792
790                                                                                                                                        780
774                                                                                                                                        767
767 195 ft lbs 2100 psi                                                                                                            748    146 ft lbs 2100 psi

So the new valve on the SS seems to make a difference so far. I have pulled both guns apart and measured every part they are all the same,I did not weigh the hammers.

My final thoughts are both guns are very accurate at the 30-50 yards I tested them. Both guns are lower power levels than I expected from a $1000 plus air rifle.
The SS at 3 times out of 10 shots I have to cycle the cocking lever again to allow the safety to release, I will contact Rachael on this issue.
The SS had a stripped screw that holds the trigger plate assembly, was holding one thread and was loose on arrival, Installed a longer screw.

I just expected 150 grains to be in the 900's.....I'll research what can be done.
The carbine will ring your ears and the SS is Quiet.
Both guns in fact do have the same 24.75" barrels

The SS loading area is for sure larger than the Carbine. I can only push almost half of any slug into the carbine before my finger hurts where as the SS I can push 90% of that same .358 slug into the bore
Accuracy wise the both favor a 148 grain wad cutter from a Lee .358 mold, assuming its due to the longer contact area.Clover leaf groups at 35 yards.

I do like that the higher up in weight I go the lower the fps spreads are and consistant.
Once both guns reach 2200 psi they both hover at that pressure for about 4-5 shots. Both are 10-12 useable shot guns per fill.

What are your thoughts on the results as there is not alot of info avalible on the ,357 short barrels?

[redlined_b16a]

I sent my chronograph info to Airforce via email and they sent me their results,Im only a few ft lbs short of their results but I suspect thats because my testing was at 45 degree weather this morning.
Not satisfied with the power level 
Its very hold sensitive for sure.
There isn't much info available on the short ,357's........not much on any Texan .357.

The Donny FL emperor V3 is a lil more silent than the SS,Not by much to the ear. The pro is its removable the con is the gun is much longer than the SS

[redlined_b16a]

Shot the gun today experimenting with diffrent holds

Found it likes to be held firm.



Talked to Airforce via email and explained having to cycle the cocking lever to release the saftey.

The informed me that the issue is caused by a soace/washer on the wrong spring and to move it to the sear spring.

Done that and the gun was stuck cocked and saftey stuck on.

The gun felt like the lever was scraping metal.



found some loose screws on internal moving parts.

Im sending the entire gun back to airforce.

There is almost zero lube on the moving parts.

There is alot of visible wear from the sear.



Not happy with this lemon nightmare Texan.



My Texan .457 has been a smooth machin

[triggertreat]

I am not familiar with AF guns, but it seems there might be an issue. The spring you mentioned, which you say is barely touching, could be a short stiff spring designed for anti-hammer bounce. This is acceptable, but when cocked, it should still be able to achieve proper speeds. You may have a blown-out breech O-ring if it is louder than expected. I shoot cast 155gr .357 slugs myself. My setup is tuned to 280 FPE but can be increased to 300 FPE for fewer shots.  The shorter barrel will reduce the speed slightly, perhaps in the range of 30 to 50 FPS. The colder temperature should not matter at the same pressure setting. It could also be an issue with slug diameter, or your slugs might perform better with some lubrication. I shoot .358 diameter. Perhaps there is too much blow-by occurring, which could explain the loudness. I also use a Donny FL Emperor V3. My gun is a AAA Slayer but should not make a significant difference. AF is known for having good power. Just some considerations to help you think of something you might have missed.  Mine uses a 3800-psi fill, so could be some differences there.

[redlined_b16a]

Trigger
I removed the spring from my Carbine and all measurements are the same.

Airforce says they will repair or replace it.
My chrononresults are about what it's advertised to do.
So performance is what it is.

[triggertreat]

Trigger
I removed the spring from my Carbine and all measurements are the same.

Airforce says they will repair or replace it.
My chrononresults are about what it's advertised to do.
So performance is what it is.

Good deal.  I guess their long gun is where all their power is.

[redlined_b16a]

Trigger
I removed the spring from my Carbine and all measurements are the same.

Airforce says they will repair or replace it.
My chrononresults are about what it's advertised to do.
So performance is what it is.

Good deal.  I guess their long gun is where all their power is.

I mean 220 ish ft lbs is enough......I just expected more.
They know what it can do but they do not advertise it.

It's pretty silent also.
The SS is heavy

[bduares]

Talked to Airforce via email and explained having to cycle the cocking lever to release the saftey.

The informed me that the issue is caused by a soace/washer on the wrong spring and to move it to the sear spring.

Done that and the gun was stuck cocked and saftey stuck on.

The gun felt like the lever was scraping metal.



found some loose screws on internal moving parts.

Im sending the entire gun back to airforce.

There is almost zero lube on the moving parts.

There is alot of visible wear from the sear.



Not happy with this lemon nightmare Texan.

Let me see if I understand this thread at all.

You have taken the gun apart quite a few times and installed DIY parts trying to increase the power of the gun, yet you blame Airforce and claim the gun was faulty and a lemon and somehow it wasn't your own fault that afterward some parts were in the wrong location and it ended up broken after you poked around under the hood numerous times. You also complain that the gun is making the exact amount of power that Airforce advertises in the gun's specifications page.

So far that is what I am getting out of this thread.

[BadFishHagDog]

Regarding the internal lubrication: AF uses a dry lubricant (molybdenum IIRC), not grease or oil, on the trigger group parts. Though there is no visible grease, the trigger group is lubed and should not need re-lubrication for a long time. If you still feel it necessary to lube the trigger group, use only a dry moly lube or a VERY thin coat of moly grease, wiped off with a rag. As for the rest of the internal parts, I like to wipe everything down with a fine coating of silicone grease for mild lubrication and corrosion protection.

Jared

[redlined_b16a]

Nowhere did airforce state this guns power level.
After contacting them with concerns of the power level they provided thier claimed fpfpsthere was no graphite lube and loose screws inside....i found that by pulling it apart as per airforces instructions. Upon performing the steps Airforce gave me......it made the issues worse.


Talked to Airforce via email and explained having to cycle the cocking lever to release the saftey.

The informed me that the issue is caused by a soace/washer on the wrong spring and to move it to the sear spring.

Done that and the gun was stuck cocked and saftey stuck on.

The gun felt like the lever was scraping metal.



found some loose screws on internal moving parts.

Im sending the entire gun back to airforce.

There is almost zero lube on the moving parts.

There is alot of visible wear from the sear.



Not happy with this lemon nightmare Texan.

Let me see if I understand this thread at all.

You have taken the gun apart quite a few times and installed DIY parts trying to increase the power of the gun, yet you blame Airforce and claim the gun was faulty and a lemon and somehow it wasn't your own fault that afterward some parts were in the wrong location and it ended up broken after you poked around under the hood numerous times. You also complain that the gun is making the exact amount of power that Airforce advertises in the gun's specifications page.

So far that is what I am getting out of this thread.

[bduares]

Nowhere did airforce state this guns power level.
After contacting them with concerns of the power level they provided thier claimed fpfps

https://airforceairguns.com/product/texanss-357-caliber/
Airforce web page for the .357 Texan SS:   

Description
Specifications
The TexanSS uses a carbine length barrel and an enlarged and redesigned Sound-Loc® system. This combination reduces unwanted discharge sound and the overall length of the original Texan

 

.357 Caliber Lothar Walther Barrel
Pressure Relief Device
Adjustable Power
Low Effort Side Lever Cocking
Available in Original Black Finish
Velocity: up to 930 feet per second*
Max Fill Pressure: 3000 psi
Action: Single shot
Weight: 9 lbs
Length: 45 inches
Barrel: 24.75 inches
Trigger: 2 stage, adjustable for position
Sights: Open or optical may be installed
Air Tank Volume: 490cc
Safety: Automatic on cocking
**Depending on Pellet Weight
**As with all PCP rifles, an external air supply is needed but not supplied with the rifle. Ask about our hand pumps and scuba adaptors**

SKU#: U203571

[redlined_b16a]

Yes......up to 930 feet per second.
Very vauge.

My gun was not getting anywhere near that with 81 grain pellets with the first valve.

So what pellet weight did they attain thier published 930 fps with?
When I reported my slow velocities with 81 grain I was told they do not have any data for anything under 127 grain since they do not shoot any lighter ammo.
After I inquired they sent data stating thier feet per second with various ammos.

Notified Airforce of the gun being stuck on safety at times and they already was aware that the issue was a spacer in the incorrect place and they gave me instructions on how and where it needs to go. During that process  the loose screws draging the chamber were found.

Regardless