We all love German springers, but...

[SpiralGroove]

Being mostly a lurker these days, I try to only contribute to threads that have interesting content where I hope my comments won't muck up the good points that others have already made. Two excellent brands of springers are being discussed, both with fairly clean records and histories, and each with their own dedicated group of cult followers. There are definite strengths and weaknesses (however slight) to both, and these characteristics set them apart from each other. In a way we are trying to compare apples and oranges, and as Hector so eloquently put it, we are all looking for something similar, but different, but in the end, it might just be some intangible quality that tips the scales one way or the other. and we might stay tipped that direction forever. I got an Air King as my first REAL airgun many years ago, and it was love at first sight (bad pun), and I still really love it and have had it apart and together many times, and even made what I think is an improvement to the carrier slides and rods. (BTW, it has left more than one bloody scope circle on a forehead.) Again, two excellent brands, but which is better?
It depends on who you ask. Again, many years ago when I was a bit younger, I had a boss who was a very difficult person to work for (I am keeping it polite). He once said at a meeting, "There is no reality, it is all perception." For some reason that really peed me off. OF COURSE there is reality and we can easily measure the differences! But now, years later I see that there was a fair amount of truth to what he said. My perception of my Air King is my reality. I am not going to try and convince you that it is better than your gun (and BTW, JEEZ, my 54 is heavy), but mine works for me, and yours works just as well for you. More emotion might be stirred up in arguing about who has the better air gun, than in arguing over who has the better wife or girl friend, LOL.
But we are all winners in the discussion if you have the gun that you always wanted.
Just my thoughts.
Please carry on with the discussion.

Lloyd,
We appreciate your comments .

PS: Will you ever be able to resurrect your, invaluable PCP (efficiency) calculator?   I used it for years and really miss it .

[Keen]

More emotion might be stirred up in arguing about who has the better air gun, than in arguing over who has the better wife or girl friend, LOL.
Please carry on with the discussion.

I have the best wife, the best girlfriend AND the best springers

[Yogi]

More emotion might be stirred up in arguing about who has the better air gun, than in arguing over who has the better wife or girl friend, LOL.
Please carry on with the discussion.

I have the best wife, the best girlfriend AND the best springers

I guess by that definition, YOU ARE THE BEST.

-Y

[avator]

More emotion might be stirred up in arguing about who has the better air gun, than in arguing over who has the better wife or girl friend, LOL.
Please carry on with the discussion.

I have the best wife, the best girlfriend AND the best springers

Welcome to the GTA.

[Keen]

More emotion might be stirred up in arguing about who has the better air gun, than in arguing over who has the better wife or girl friend, LOL.
Please carry on with the discussion.

I have the best wife, the best girlfriend AND the best springers

I guess by that definition, YOU ARE THE BEST.

-Y

I wouldn't have put it that way but......

[lloyd-ss]

More emotion might be stirred up in arguing about who has the better air gun, than in arguing over who has the better wife or girl friend, LOL.
Please carry on with the discussion.

I have the best wife, the best girlfriend AND the best springers

I guess by that definition, YOU ARE THE BEST.

-Y

I wouldn't have put it that way but......

Wow! Claiming the best in 3 out of 3 categories! AND adding a 4th best of the best category!  That might just reinforce the, "there is no reality, it is all perception,"  statement.
But I am happy for you, just keep believing your perception!

[Keen]

More emotion might be stirred up in arguing about who has the better air gun, than in arguing over who has the better wife or girl friend, LOL.
Please carry on with the discussion.

I have the best wife, the best girlfriend AND the best springers

I guess by that definition, YOU ARE THE BEST.

-Y

I wouldn't have put it that way but......

Wow! Claiming the best in 3 out of 3 categories! AND adding a 4th best of the best category!  That might just reinforce the, "there is no reality, it is all perception,"  statement.
But I am happy for you, just keep believing your perception!

Apparently there are some very serious and sensitive folks reacting to my post, and emojis are useless at conveying sarcasm, irony, humor.

Lighten up, Smile, and enjoy the rest of your day

[Hoosier Daddy]

[avator]

More emotion might be stirred up in arguing about who has the better air gun, than in arguing over who has the better wife or girl friend, LOL.
Please carry on with the discussion.

I have the best wife, the best girlfriend AND the best springers

I guess by that definition, YOU ARE THE BEST.

-Y

I wouldn't have put it that way but......

Wow! Claiming the best in 3 out of 3 categories! AND adding a 4th best of the best category!  That might just reinforce the, "there is no reality, it is all perception,"  statement.
But I am happy for you, just keep believing your perception!

Apparently there are some very serious and sensitive folks reacting to my post, and emojis are useless at conveying sarcasm, irony, humor.

Lighten up, Smile, and enjoy the rest of your day

LOL Chris... that goes both ways.. I'm sure these guys were just "mashin' yer taters" as was I.

[lloyd-ss]

More emotion might be stirred up in arguing about who has the better air gun, than in arguing over who has the better wife or girl friend, LOL.
Please carry on with the discussion.

I have the best wife, the best girlfriend AND the best springers

I guess by that definition, YOU ARE THE BEST.

-Y

I wouldn't have put it that way but......

Wow! Claiming the best in 3 out of 3 categories! AND adding a 4th best of the best category!  That might just reinforce the, "there is no reality, it is all perception,"  statement.
But I am happy for you, just keep believing your perception!

Apparently there are some very serious and sensitive folks reacting to my post, and emojis are useless at conveying sarcasm, irony, humor.

Lighten up, Smile, and enjoy the rest of your day

Oops, sorry if there has been a misunderstanding. 
Quite true, without sitting across from someone it is often hard to tell the poster's intent. I hope that I am reading your humorous sarcasm correctly, and you, mine, because honestly, I do find this exchange very hilarious.  It is all good.  Certainly nothing intended but a little fun by all, but at no one's expense.    I am smiling. 

[Struckat]

I don’t count my time with my prior springer because I hated it. 10-15 years later I found this place.

I eventually purchased a new HW30, thank you enablers. I love that thing and still do. It was followed by 95. That was an experience. Bad that ended good.

It should have gone back the same day but I didn’t know any better. By a 1,000 shots the seal failed. All the while my accuracy would come and go. I would always blame me, just dont know how to keep my hold consistent.

All that time I also was drinking from the German Gate fire hose. Particularly the Yoda/Groove hose. They unknowingly convinced me that I need to work on my own airguns.

I corrected several warranty issues on my own and now have (after 2 years of fiddling) a gun that is my favorite.
With the mechanical issues solved, I could actually learn to shoot it accurately. I will never part with it.

I have never seen a Diana, so I cant really comment on those. But if there was one that I wanted, I would not hesitate to buy one.

I know that there are plenty of springers that work just fine out of the box. Personally, regardless of brand, I expect to have to go through them. If not to correct things, then to know things are how I want them.

I do really want a Walter springer. All but one of my pcp have Walther barrels that have made me into a low skill barrel snob.
I am a parts guy by trade and really worry about parts availability in the future.

I may have a Diana some day, but for now my needs, I have everything more than covered.

This whole thing is such a deep dark hole.

[Struckat]

Being mostly a lurker these days, I try to only contribute to threads that have interesting content where I hope my comments won't muck up the good points that others have already made. Two excellent brands of springers are being discussed, both with fairly clean records and histories, and each with their own dedicated group of cult followers. There are definite strengths and weaknesses (however slight) to both, and these characteristics set them apart from each other. In a way we are trying to compare apples and oranges, and as Hector so eloquently put it, we are all looking for something similar, but different, but in the end, it might just be some intangible quality that tips the scales one way or the other. and we might stay tipped that direction forever. I got an Air King as my first REAL airgun many years ago, and it was love at first sight (bad pun), and I still really love it and have had it apart and together many times, and even made what I think is an improvement to the carrier slides and rods. (BTW, it has left more than one bloody scope circle on a forehead.) Again, two excellent brands, but which is better?
It depends on who you ask. Again, many years ago when I was a bit younger, I had a boss who was a very difficult person to work for (I am keeping it polite). He once said at a meeting, "There is no reality, it is all perception." For some reason that really peed me off. OF COURSE there is reality and we can easily measure the differences! But now, years later I see that there was a fair amount of truth to what he said. My perception of my Air King is my reality. I am not going to try and convince you that it is better than your gun (and BTW, JEEZ, my 54 is heavy), but mine works for me, and yours works just as well for you. More emotion might be stirred up in arguing about who has the better air gun, than in arguing over who has the better wife or girl friend, LOL.
But we are all winners in the discussion if you have the gun that you always wanted.
Just my thoughts.
Please carry on with the discussion.

Wisdom posted here, thank you.

[SpiralGroove]

Hey Lloyd,
I know this isn't the place, but is anything in the works for re-establishing your (PCP) efficiency calculator?
Surely You and Bob can figure this out - right?
Kirk

[lloyd-ss]

Hey Lloyd,
I know this isn't the place, but is anything in the works for re-establishing your (PCP) efficiency calculator?
Surely You and Bob can figure this out - right?
Kirk

Privateer (Jeff) is putting a serious effort into getting this online again, and I know he is making progress. Maybe  some encouragement from a few others might help him along??

[avator]

Kirk...

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=140859.msg156497013#msg156497013

[Kragman1]

There has been plenty of interesting stuff considerately added to this thread by many people.  That's a win for everybody. 👍

My original musing was about shifting "allegiances" with time and experience.  Speaking for myself, this question applies to Wiehrauch vs Diana.  I'm a fan of both, but started with Diana and would likely never have known about other quality rifles, but for unforseen circumstances. I unexpectedly came across and had rebuilt an FWB 124, then stumbled across an early R9 in rapid succession, maybe 5 years ago.  I had previously bought a D34 at a pawn shop because "why not", so I now had a really nice assortment of excellent springers to enjoy in a rotation, which took me from lounging around the springer pool to diving right in, and I came up smiling.

Since then I have been able to buy or borrow many good German rifles, some stock and some tuned.  To me, my FWB 124 is an only child but not Diana and Weihrauch.
All these rifles have basic similarities but they definitely have different "feel" to them.
To continue the analogy, the two companies have "raised their families" with different philosophies.

HW has conservatively stuck with the tried and true, and simply makes their rifles to that heirloom standard without adding costs for product development, etc.  As a consumer I love this.
However, when it comes to innovation, I cast HW as the tortoise, and Diana as the hare.  And if you appreciate the fruits of Diana's engineering (and I do!) you will likely overlook the little little cost saving steps they take to stay in their price range.  I understand how this works, and I'm OK with it.  Still, I wish it didn't have to be so.  Ultimately for me, as a consumer buying a long term product, the savings for plastic end caps etc. are not a positive.  That's just me -  to many people they will be justified.

Interestingly, my first quality German rifle was an early Diana 45, the square trigger guard/recoil pin version.  All steel and remarkably well made, short stroke, great trigger, very very accurate, somewhat heavy, and dated styling. 

All things you could say about most HWs, right....? 

So to me, that's a noteworthy point in the timeline, maybe where Diana and HW were beginning to separate themselves.  Or, I should say, where Diana was seperating themselves from other makers.  Diana has evolved by chasing advancement, and others like HW have more "stuck to their guns" with their traditional springer designs. 

In my case, I suppose that I should say that my objective brain appreciates Diana more, and that my subjective brain is a big Weihrauch fan.
As I've gotten more experience/exposure to these rifle, i have developed a mild preference for HW, so that's where I fall. 

That's just me.  I'm sure that others may have done just the opposite, and for perfectly good reasons.

[SpiralGroove]

Yeah, now that I've gotten to be a old fart .... I know what I like and it doesn't really bother me what others think .  If I didn't understand the differences, I'd do more research.
Everyone should feel the same ...... as were not talking about a big difference in quality here.

Everyone in the USA and UK should be glad Weihrauch and Diana exist - as Germany was forced to make Airguns in lieu of firearms as reparations for WWII. 
AA were heavily influenced by Weihrauch's accomplishments in triggers/Underlevers.

[Kragman1]

"Everyone in the USA and UK should be glad Weihrauch and Diana exist..."

Absolutely!

[Yogi]

"Everyone in the USA and UK should be glad Weihrauch and Diana exist..."

Absolutely!

I am!!!
Particularly when you conside that PCP's is where the money and sales are.

-Yogi

[Methuselah]

LOL!! that's funny! But very true, we all know Diana's are power houses out of the box, but? they don't have the build quality of HW period, the 34 or 95 class of power plants including the 77,97 95/R9 HW85 are all equal as far as power, The 80/R1 maxed out is a 20ftlb rifle in .22cal. that's more than enough power for anything you should be shooting with a springer air gun! IMO, I don't know of anything 20ftlbs in .22cal won't dispatch at reasonable distances? again with a spring piston air gun! I have owned more 48"s and 460mags in .22cal 350mags in .22cal and HW80's or R1's in .22cal than most of you can shake a stick at! so your arguments in this are pointless! this all comes down fit and finish and quality and accuracy and fit and feel of the rifle in your hands!

And warranty, especially if you are not accustomed to doing your own work. Doubly so if the used market comes into play.

No disrespect intended Mark!