HW80

[Mark 611]

Wes, I hope your reading this thread! This will answer a lot of your questions. I recently just retuned my 2016 year made R1, I had the JM 135dia wire kit in it, I have not fired the gun in about 5yrs, I decided to run it across the chrony and it wasn't doing so well, I've only fired about 100 pellets thru it since I tubed it! I took apart to discover the piston seal which was also new at the time had lot it's fit, I put the new JM power kit in it and the fitted the JM power seal, it still in the break-in process but it's very accurate, no chrony numbers to speak of yet, I left the piston seal a tic tight to make sure my tube was good, this is a .22cal with a 12.2'' HW80k threaded barrel with a can!

[Ike the GSD]

To make my HW80 a shooter, I did some shopping at Schneider. First off, I got a new type cocking shoe, to try to fix the terrible chafing of the cocking arm against the stock cocking slot. The new shoe was much easier to fit than I anticipated, no filing etc. needed in my case. It did require chiseling an extension to the cocking slot, inside the stock, since the new shoe is appreciably longer up front than the old.

I also got a new OEM piston. The original piston didn’t seem to hold any seal, factory or else, tight; they would wobble like a tooth ready to pull. I thought this might affect velocity but certainly consistency. The new piston that came with a factory seal had no wobble. What’s more, the piston clocked higher, more appropriate resistance in the HW chamber than any of the three seals with the old piston I had had for the gun.

Putting the 80 back together, I could instantly tell the cocking stroke had transformed: no chafing, no friction, but smooth, almost silent travel. So, just for this, the teardown was a success. How the new piston with the new seal works, cycle, velocity & consistency-wise, remains to be seen. I can’t shoot a gun of this loudness level at home, and my options for shooting locales has seriously dwindled in the past year (we’re planning a move). It’ll be very interesting to see.

Was there a groove worn into the top inside of the compression tube where the piston ends going to the rear towards the block? My buddy's rifle has a horrendous wear groove there on his R1.

[Ike the GSD]

Wes, I hope your reading this thread! This will answer a lot of your questions. I recently just retuned my 2016 year made R1, I had the JM 135dia wire kit in it, I have not fired the gun in about 5yrs, I decided to run it across the chrony and it wasn't doing so well, I've only fired about 100 pellets thru it since I tubed it! I took apart to discover the piston seal which was also new at the time had lot it's fit, I put the new JM power kit in it and the fitted the JM power seal, it still in the break-in process but it's very accurate, no chrony numbers to speak of yet, I left the piston seal a tic tight to make sure my tube was good, this is a .22cal with a 12.2'' HW80k threaded barrel with a can!

Mission accomplished Mark, thanks for all your help😉👍

[Toxylon]

Move finally settling, if not settled, huh! One big reason for the move was my need to finally have the space and privacy to shoot my guns at home, any time, no questions asked. Mission accomplished!

I re-started my springer journey with my HW80. Remember, I had last replaced the original 80's piston with a new OEM piston & piston seal, cleaned the barrel thoroughly and relubed the engine with a light Honda M77 moly job.

100+ break-in shots for the seals and lube (Titan #8 mainspring already broken in) went by like a breeze: the new cocking shoe works perfectly, there is zero additional friction in the cocking stroke, and everything else works as it should, as well.

First shots through my chrono:

Exact 4.52's (the best fit so far) gained app. 19 m/s  /  62 fps, for a 2.1 fpe increase, at just under 22 J  /  16.1 fpe. They actually shoot too fast now, at almost 930 fps. That is evident in the lack of accuracy, too.

I don't have .177 cal Exact Heavies, since they have been hard for me to get for a long time. But I have Daystate FT Heavy 10.25gr.'s, made by JSB. They deteriorated the HW80's shot cycle, being too heavy for the powerplant as it is. They shot at app. 245 m/s  /  804 fps, for app. 20 J  / 14.7 fpe.

In the present state, the gun would need low-release pressure (small / thin / soft skirt) pellets that were in the 9 gr. range. No such pellet exists, methinks. But a heavier Titan spring + custom guide is in the future for my HW80, once I get my stable of guns going and my tuning nook built.

[Toxylon]

Tested some more pellets.

FTT 4.52's tamed the 80 right down, hurling them at 265 m/s  /  869 fps, for a little under 20J  /  14.4 fpe

Baracuda FT 4.50's shot at 244 m/s  /  801 fps, for 18.5J  /  13.6 fpe

The FTT 4.52's were pretty nasty to chamber, taking heavy double pushes and still mostly leaving the skirts sticking out a little. The Baracuda FT 4.50's chambered much better, and they shot with a much smaller spread, too. However, they are too heavy for the 80, making the shot cycle more laboured / shaky than with the FTT's, as indicated by the lower muzzle energy by a foot pound.

Of course I had to chrono Hobby 7.0 gr.'s, too. Would they breach the 300 m/s barrier? Yes they did, clocking a top velocity of 301 m/s / 988 fps (averaging 979 fps, for 14.9 fpe). Hobbies chambered poorly in this gun, with the heads making zero contact with the cone and the skirts sticking out some, no matter how I pressed.

Accuracy-wise, the FTT's and the Baracuda FT's are at the same level now, with me learning to shoot the gun.

It's obvious that I need FTT 4.50's for this gun with this tune. Have to go shopping for those.

[Mark 611]

Yes, you need the proper fit for the Leede in of the pellet, but the pellet must also be accurate on target, learning to shoot a gun like the 80 in .177cal takes some learning to shoot, unless you have those abilities from the get-go? Not everybody can shoot a springer! and the bigger the power plant the harder they are to shoot accurately, especially in .177cal! JMO  

[Ike the GSD]

Yes, you need the proper fit for the Leede in of the pellet, but the pellet must also be accurate on target, learning to shoot a gun like the 80 in .177cal takes some learning to shoot, unless you have those abilities from the get-go? Not everybody can shoot a springer! and the bigger the power plant the harder they are to shoot accurately, especially in .177cal! JMO

.177 HW80's aren't that hard to learn how to shoot😉👍!

[Toxylon]

I got FTT 4.50's for my 80. They chamber clearly better than the FTT 4.52's.

But now there's a problem. I call Bayman and other HW experts to the rescue:

Chronoing the FTT 4.50's, the velocities seemed low and were very spread: 34 fps over 10 shots.

As a control, I chronoed FTT 4.52's from the same tin I had already tested: they shot even slower than the 4.50's, and just as spread out. These pellets were missing almost 50 fps / over 1 fpe, compared to their chrono string just some 60 shots back.

What could cause a HW80 to slow down AND spread out, a few hundred shots into a break-in?

Testing the FTT 4.50's for accuracy, I would get good shots about 50% of the time, the other half being wild flyers (mostly vertically) for no good reason. A clear deterioration over what the gun and me have been doing these past few weeks.

To restate, the gun has a new OEM piston, new OEM seals, a well-fitting Titan mainspring with app. 500 shots, a Delrin tophat with a washer thrust bearing, and a modest moly lube job, on top of a proper clean-up and deburring. The gun didn't diesel visibly at any time after the tune, the cocking is smooth and silent, there are no signs of anything being broken, and no reason to expect that.

As the chrono readings and accuracy have gotten worse, the HW80 shot cycle has turned even snappier and more aggressive. What gives?

[RKM]

FWIW from a backyard spring rifle plinker, I have an R9 I bought in the very late eighties or very early 90’s I can’t find the receipt to give an exact date. It was my first adult springer. I also have an HW95 Luxus I bought new from AOA last year. I actually believe the newer HW95 Luxus is the better gun. Fit, finish, smoother and a tad more accurate. Both run the same scope HAWKE Airmax 4x12 and the HW95 just seems a tad nicer.

[Toxylon]

Back in 2020 I bought a HW95L .22 cal, as my first high quality, German made springer. It turned out to be the worst buy of my life (price/quality), which I have amply documented here and elsewhere. The L is made impossible to use with the open sights it comes supplied with, which was one of the bummers but far from the only one. So, been there. Glad you like yours!