Are you good? Or just good with one gun?

[BlurredVision]

recently found out that air gun hunting is legal for people like myself. I know I’m late to the party. Long story short I’m looking for the best .22 all around break barrel for hunting. As well as a .25
I need real world users to give some feed back. For the .22 I’m thinking the gamo magnum is better than the Hatsan or the German brands. Again I’m new and this is just you tube research. Until I found GTA. I don’t like the stock though. Can it be switched with a wood stock of a previous gamo rifle or would a completely different one work? And could I switch the barrel to have no sight in the end? Also the same help for the .25 cal
I will get into the PCP later. I just feel like I’m carrying around a bomb right now. More research to come. Appreciate any help

[HOSPassassin]

If you're looking at something in the $200-400 range, which is where the Gamo Magnum is usually priced, I would recommend saving a few bucks and starting out with a Gamo Wildcat Whisper. The Magnum is 1. Extremely long (48-ish inches), and 2. Kicks like a mule, which means it kills scopes and is very challenging to learn to shoot accurately. If you've never hunted with a breakbarrel before you will be much better served by starting out with something that is easier for a beginner to master. It can be frustrating to learn how to hold a recoiling air rifle since it is very different from a powder-burning rifle. The GWW does recoil but nothing like the Magnum. The GWW I had was only accurate with wadcutter pellets, which is the reason why I sold it. If I had found a good domed pellet for it I would still be using it.

In fact, since you're still reading my free advice at this point, let me suggest an even more radical solution: an HW 30. Its price will be not too different from the Gamo Magnum but the shooting experience will be like trading a woodsplitting maul for a scalpel. If you can hit the right spot on the head at the right angle within 30 yards you can take anything that is traditionally hunted with an airgun with an HW 30.

There is no better breakbarrel out there for a first experience with a breakbarrel than an HW 30. And yes, if you can shoot you can hunt with it. I have.

[BlurredVision]

Thanks for the reply….so what if kick and aiming aren’t a factor? I can’t spell it but the “y-rock” is how I’ve heard it pronounced. I like it. How it looks. But is it as good as the Gamo whisper or Magnum? The weight and length kick and all that are not too important to me. Im more than an average sized human. I’m basically asking which break barrel rifle in .22 and .25 cal will serve best purpose for shooting rabbit and squirrel from 30.40yrd.

Can you trade out stocks? Example. Gamo Magnum stock with the Gamo wood varmnit?
Do they make barrels for break barrel guns without a site on the tip of barrel? Will any of these changes effect the rifle in a bad way?

[HOSPassassin]

If you're willing to go just a little more expensive get an HW 50 or HW 95/Beeman R9. They come in .22 and have excellent iron sights that are easily removable.

I mentioned the recoil not to caution you against shooting something uncomfortable, although in my opinion it is pretty uncomfortable. I brought it up because breakbarrels behave very differently from every other rifle on the planet.

When I shoot my 12 ga I expect anything from a healthy push to a sharp thump in my shoulder, depending on the load. When you shoot a breakbarrel, especially one that is relatively lightweight but still producing a lot of power, like a Gamo, it will recoil sharply in BOTH directions. This makes them much more difficult to shoot accurately until you know what to expect from that rifle and have figured out how to hold it just right. If you try to shoot it just like a 10/22 (for example) it will spray pellets all over that 30-40 yard range you mentioned. When you do get it right that will improve to 1 or 1.5" at 40. It's not a comfort thing so much as a trying to give you a better chance for immediate success thing. Even highly experienced PB shooters have to adjust. That is why I suggested starting out with something a little tamer. It will be easier to overcome the learning curve that exists every time someone tries shooting a breakbarrel.

As for HW rifles, none of them shoot as hard as Gamos (except maybe the really powerful ones like an HW 80 or 90). However, they are vastly better made, more accurate, and more pleasant to shoot. I have owned several of both brands over the years. They are more expensive but you get what you pay for and then some.

There are YT videos out there of Brits shooting HW 50 or 95/R9 rifles at 550-ish fps in .22 and smoking pigeons and bunnies from greater than 60 yards away. That's how accurate they can potentially be!

[BlurredVision]

As a first timer. Not even newbie lol. I know power isn’t everything. This is a legit question. You mentioned the HW rifles. That’s exactly what I wanted to gamo magnum to look like. But why not get the most powerful one you can get? All the YT research pretty much says Gamo is the best you’re gonna find in break barrel. Bc it packs the hardest punch. I can’t specifically find HW90 vs the magnum. Or Hatsan 125 vs HW90. So that’s why I made an account here to see what you would say. If the gamo magnum fit the long slug pellets and if it had wood stock I would buy it. The Hatsan looks really good along with the HW rifles. But then they don’t shoot as hard? My wife said I could get a rifle for my birthday and she’s paying for it. So if what I need is a couple hundred more than the magnum  she’ll never know the difference lol

[HOSPassassin]

Don't listen to YT. The amount of salt required for all those grains you have to take would require digging your own mine.

If you are dead set on power then the HW 90 is what you want. Bear in mind that it will cost more than double the Gamo Magnum but its overall quality, accuracy, and pleasure of ownership will be more than twice that of any breakbarrel gun Gamo has ever made. They do sell a really nice inexpensive PCP called the Urban but from what you have written so far you'd rather start with breakbarrels. So, if you want monster power in .22 or .25 in a beautifully well-made breakbarrel, get an HW 90 from Krale or AoA. The HW 90 should produce somewhere around 850 fps with a 14 grain .22 pellet. You really don't want to go too much faster than that when shooting pellets or else their accuracy will start to suffer. That's not as fast as a Gamo Magnum but it's probably a 1 to 2 MOA gun and possibly even better when used by a capable breakbarrel shooter. That will get you to 50 yards on a squirrel noggin easily. The Gamo Magnum probably shoots in the 2 to 3 MOA range, which means that no matter how much destructive power it is producing you're probably going to be limited to 35 to maybe 40 yards for consistent accuracy on a squirrel's head. The extra power does you no good if you miss because the gun just isn't capable of producing a consistent group at a longer range. The 2 to 3 MOA estimate is based on the Gamo rifle that I currently own, which produces about 3 MOA accuracy with its favorite pellet. That limits its usefulness on squirrels to about 35 yards.

For comparison's sake, my HW 30 shoots a 7.9 grain .177 caliber pellet at about 650 fps. Puny, right? But it will put 5 of those in a group that measures less than .25 inches C-T-C on a calm day at 25 yards. No squirrel that has ever taken a hit from it has gotten away. I have blasted them with a 12 ga before and lost them in a hole.

Skill will kill.

[BlurredVision]

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That reply has answered my stupid questions. Thank you for breaking it down like that. You have made my day

Now should I stick to the same brand for a .25?

You’ve helped me so far so here’s a new question. PCP rifles. Are they dangerous? Like has one ever blown up? Just seems like a bomb in my hands.

[HOSPassassin]

You're most welcome. If I can help a new airgunner avoid the some of the frustrations and wasted money that I have dealt with over the past 12 years I'm here for it.

I will say up front that I have never owned a .25 caliber rifle. With that being said, there are a couple of issues to be aware of as you go up in caliber.

1. Cost: this may not be relevant to you, but it is to me. .25 pellets are significantly more expensive on a per-pellet basis than .22. It's not a huge difference but it adds up if you shoot a lot. There is also less selection and the availability is not great. For example, you can walk into a Wal-Mart or hardware store in small-town America and almost always find .177 or .22 pellets, usually by Daisy or Crosman. They're ok if your gun likes them. You won't find .25 pellets hardly anywhere unless you order online. They cost more, you have to wait for them to be delivered, and then pay for shipping.

2. Power output: a .25 caliber gun will ordinarily put out more muzzle energy and momentum than a .22. However, the trajectory will be harder to deal with even in a powerful breakbarrel. That HW 90 that shoots a normal-weight .22 pellet at 850 will probably shoot a normal-weight .25 in the 600's because it is that much heavier. A Gamo Magnum will shoot .25s maybe in the low 700's. The smack will be very satisfying but you will have to do a much better job of judging distances and knowing where your pellet is in its flight arc at each range. A laser range finder is a big help with this. The .22 will fly flatter and will be only slightly more affected by wind than a .25.

This is why militaries around the world started using .22 to .30 caliber bullets moving over 2,000 fps around the turn of the 20th century instead of honking big .45 or bigger bullets at 1,200 to 1,500. It's a whole lot easier to hit the target with a faster, flatter projectile. Those monster bullets do a frightening amount of damage when they hit but they actually have to hit the target.

3. Penetration: I just shot some aerosol cans this morning with my .22 caliber multipump rifle. It was shooting at about 550 fps. Every time it penetrated one side of the can and not the other at about 25 yards. I suspect that .25 at that range and velocity might not have penetrated at all. .177 will easily punch both sides. Unless you're exclusively putting holes in a critter's head, you will actually want pass-throughs in the vitals, just like you would with an arrow. Two holes bleed more than one. No pellet moves fast enough to expand reliably except for a few very specialized, very expensive ones like a Predator Polymag or JSB Hades.

IMHO, a .22 moving in the 800-900 fps range at the muzzle will probably give you the optimal compromise between trajectory and terminal effectiveness when used with the types of rifles you are interested in. If you decide to try PCPs later .22 caliber slugs or .25 pellets become a very attractive option. You can get a lot more power and easy-to-attain precision with a PCP than a breakbarrel. The tradeoff, of course, is more expense and a LOT more complexity. I like to keep things simple and sturdy.

As far as PCP rifles and safety, buy quality and follow the directions. Like others have said, it's 99.99% of the time user error that causes mishaps. I have only owned one PCP and I didn't care for the complexity of extra equipment.

[SwampHunter]

Springers are hard to shoot, period. Some guys are great with them, others not. I have a diana 34 that will make meat, but I never take it hunting. If I can't hit a dime everytime I reduce rage until I can or try another rifle.
Bottom line is a multipump, c02 or pcp are way easier to shoot! A crosman 362 will do what you need if you don't mind pumping. Add in a decent scope and steel breech, your around $300.
I was at the same place you are when I started, ultimately I have all types of rifles now but springers , no I matter how powerful the springer, the challenge is getting it to hit where you want, reliably.
 If c02 is an option for you a xs60c from Mike Melick would work great, prepped and shipped for $150 at flying dragon air rifles. If you HAVE to have a springer,  I would get one from Mike tuned, your looking at closer to $300 for that.
You would probably enjoy a pcp most though, there are tons on the market currently,  pair it with a cheap Chinese hand pump and your ready to go. Gamo urban is a great place to start, I prefer the bsa buccaneer if you can find one because it's the same rifle basically but has a wooden stock.
Bottom line is most any decent pcp will out shoot a springer, unless you are very proficient with the springer. Even then, an average joe with a pcp will shoot right with someone who has been shooting a springer for decades.
A multi pump can shoot just as good as a pcp, you just have to pump between shots. Co2 works great until Temps drop under 60°  Either way you go a springer is the hardest to shoot.
YT is a bunch of bs when it comes to airguns, visit the airgun forums and you will quickly realize that "super magnums" are NOT what airgunners hunt with.
 

[chutesnreloads]

All solid advice. My Benjamin .22 easily kills squirrels with only 5 pumps. Power isn't everything and worthless if you miss.
One thing not mentioned about the break barrels is the amount of practice you'll need to master it. Not only are they difficult to shoot accurately
because of the "double-recoil", When you change shooting positions (sitting to kneeling to standing using whatever rest is available hunting) You can count on the
pellet to hit in different spots from your zero. Lots of practice and you get familiar with how it shoots from different holds/positions. It takes time to get that experience.
 Last I'd advise shortening your hunting distance expectations. Range estimation is critical for knowing correct hold over/under no matter which type rifle you use.
Get some range time at a variety of distances before you start hunting at the longer distances. Again, experience is your friend.

[BlurredVision]

Thanks a lot guys. I wish I would’ve just come here first and not waste all that time on YT and Google lol.

[lefteyeshot]

Mike, all the advise the guys above gave you is good. I come at all of it from a different approach. I don't hunt or pest. I don't have anything against it. Saw enough dead stuff in the Army. I'm a springer guy. I prefer .177 and wood stocks. I just punch paper and now and then kill empty cat food cans and wine bottle corks. I just shoot off a bench.

I don't care for PCP or pumpers, had some, and I got a few gas rams but I never shoot them. Don't matter why, I just don't like them.

The Gamos, Hatsans, Noricas and Cometas are a bit over priced. The German guns are worth what they ask for them which is a lot. I have some German guns now but my first air guns back in 2011-12 where a Beeman RS2 dual cal., Gamo Silent Cat and an Air Hawk. I didn't want to spend a lot on a gun not knowing if I was going to like the hobby. Plus some people never learn to shoot springers.

I have a lot of air guns. The one I have the most of is Crosman break barrels. 2 Storms, a G1 Extreme, 2 Furys, a Phantom and a Remington Summit. They're are all the same gun as an Optimus, all springers and .177, scoped, have steel muzzle breaks and wood stocks for the ones came in plastic. Bought them all used on-line or at pawn shops. Never had any apart. Two have GRT triggers and the rest have the RC roller bearing trigger mod. They're all tac drivers. There's not a lot of difference in holes touching, 1/4" or 1/2" groups. If those had been my first guns they would probably be my only guns. Well, that's not true, I'm a bit of a collector/addict and everyone needs a couple of B3's.

You can get everything on Amazon in a couple of days:

Crosman .22 Optimus w/scope $135. You might want a better scope. Easy to shoot, work on and easy trigger mod.

Center Point 3-9x32 scope mildot lum LR392RG2 $55. At these ranges you don't need AO. Something else to break.

TRM RC bearing 5x8x2.5mm, 2 pac $7. Google 'Fix a Crosman trigger, Do's and Don'ts'. Easy 10 min job. 1 lbs or
less trigger pull, no first stage.

Tin of RWS .22 Meisterkugeln 14grs wadcutters $14. They shoot good in about anything.

Goggle 'artillery hold' a must. My artillery hold is so loose if I coughed I'd drop the gun. Kinda' a sorta'.
Start out at 10 yards, setting, off a table and rest. Then work your way back to 25. Off hand later.

If it don't work out as you imagined you're out 200 bucks. Later, Tim.

[Methuselah]

Maybe decision's made?

Don't Hatsan. Many have issues like mine did in 2015 from what I've read. Too much gun also tends to tear up scopes.

For hunting or pesting, like everybody said, know your skills and stick to them.  Sneaking up to get closer is a valuable skill too...