YANT (Yet Another Notos Thread)

[subscriber]

Ok, long setup, short results:

Stock Baffle (baseline)  0db
Internal 4                   -1db
Internal 5                   +2db
Internal/External         -10db

Very interesting, Bob

Your results are a partial answer to the question; are more baffles better, or does the spacing matter just as much?

There was a long and a short "snout" version of the internal/external.  Which did you test, Bob?


As a picture is worth 1000 words, here are the designs being compared:








Or:

[Firewalker]

Great thread! I'm going to stop at the place I am now. I got the speed, accuracy and shot count I was looking for.

[bruce.net]

I have been running the external and it seems quieter, but I also backed off on the hammer spring after shooting it stock.

The noise from the target now seems much more pronounced versus the blast from the Notos.  Kudos to Subscriber for his work on the Notos as well.

[TorqueMaster]

Ok, long setup, short results:

Stock Baffle (baseline)  0db
Internal 4                   -1db
Internal 5                   +2db
Internal/External         -10db

...
There was a long and a short "snout" version of the internal/external.  Which did you test, Bob?
...

Ah yes, so there were...I went with "short snout" internal/external (image kept above.)  The thinking was -- this way all the test baffles give the pellet a fairly consistent point of baffle entry, and shroud volume behind the baffles -- one less variable to wonder about when the big baffle smokes the little baffles!

I can put on my list to compare long vs short snout -- not expecting much audible change, but maybe better air stripping / less pellet turbulence if the baffle entry point is closer to the muzzle?

[subscriber]

Thanks, Bob

It would be interesting to see if there is any difference in sound or grouping as a function of "snout length".

[moose]

I'm only shooting 25yards.  ALL the room I have.  I'm so Frikkin' happy with my Notos right out of the Box.  I can't hit  3" gongs @ 50 yards. But I have a blast splitting toothpicks @ 25 yards.

[Firewalker]

I'm only shooting 25yards.  ALL the room I have.  I'm so Frikkin' happy with my Notos right out of the Box.  I can't hit  3" gongs @ 50 yards. But I have a blast splitting toothpicks @ 25 yards.

You should get 2MOA from your Notos, perhaps lapp the barrel and give it a good cleaning? 50 yards on a 3" gong should be possible.

[smythsg]

Doing some chrony work with my Notos the last couple days with several different pellets. While going through this exercise I noticed that my regulator was a bit slow to fully reinitialize after each shot. The first shot in a group was always the highest velocity, followed by a drop in velocity of up to 10 fps of most of the remaining shots if I just aimed, fired, in quick succession. If I waited about 4-5 minutes between shots, then all shots would be within a couple of fps of the highest velocity.

The Notos still falls off the reg at the same pressure as when I received it, and the velocity with CP Domes is still in the high 770's to low 780's so haven't lost any power, but I don't remember the reg acting like this when I first received the rifle. Could it be the high temps (94-96 degrees)  and high humidity (75%) in North GA? It is, of course, much hotter and more humid now than when I first received the Notos...

I mostly do pesting and hunting with the Notos, so a few minutes between shots is not a serious issue for me, but has anyone else noticed this kind of behavior?

[2A Georgia]

Steve,
I put several refills down range with the Notos Sunday in just the weather you described.  I didn't bring a chrono but POI never changed so I have to assume fps is still less than 5% variance.  The last mag pair I was trying to see how quickly, calmly and smoothly I could cycle the lever and get back on target without moving my cheek weld so zero recovery time. The AG is actually getting boring to shoot at paper..lol

[subscriber]

Steve,

I think that what you describe could also be the reg drifting to a higher pressure over time before it shuts off, rather than slow refill when shooting at a normal cadence.

[smythsg]

Hi Charles, thanks for the confirmation, and nice to hear you are enjoying your Notos as well. I don't punch too much paper with my Notos, but it has seen quite a bit of successful activity pesting both feather and fur protecting my garden and bird feeders. Looking forward to doing some woods walking with it when hunting season comes back around.

Subscriber, what you describe could very well be what I am seeing with my reg. I had not thought about it drifting up before shutoff over time... I have had other PCP rifles that did just that so it does make some sense. Thank you for the observation! 

[Back_Roads]

 These regs also known to drift when topping the tube off, the first shot can either be faster than the rest or slower, as the hammer spring has to overcome higher pressure.
 Just got a Notos yesterday also

[smythsg]

Congrats on the new Notos James, looking forward to your adventures with the new rifle. I constantly go back and forth with the optic on mine, from the very light weight Sig Romeo 4h red dot to the much heavier but sweet Vector Optics 1-6 Gen II Grimlock scope with fine reticle and floating illuminated center dot. It's currently wearing the Vector Optic and I was shooting the thumbtacks holding my target to my backstop yesterday at 30 yards... got bored shooting the target 

[TorqueMaster]

I've seen the "long rest period" higher velocity shot a few times, but I think it is getting better.  I typically shoot at about a 15 second cadence, and convinced myself that waiting just an extra 15 seconds was causing it.  My testing has shown otherwise, I'll post that here shortly.  I AM pretty sure if it sits for a few minutes, it will shoot a bit faster on the first shot, but no hard data to support that. 

I have noticed it takes 5-ish shots for the reg to settle down after a refill. 

I tested my avenger at 15, 30, 60 second cadence, and saw no measurable change in fps.  No patience for longer than that.  I need to do the same for this Notos.

**********

I may as well post my results now, it's somewhat related.
I get about 70 shots per fill tuned at 1500ish psi and a properly matched spring.  I set out to test if changing pellets during a session has any effect on the velocity of the first shot with the next pellet type.  I switched it up between light, heavy, and really heavy pellets, 7 strings of 10 shots each.  I also wanted to get an idea of the ES of each pellet type.

I was hand pumping, and went to 4000psi, same as I do on the electric pump.  Whether the gauges are a bit off, or less heat involved, the Notos showed 4000psi, not the usual 3700.  Oops.  It worked fine, I think, but not something I plan to repeat.  First few shots after fill show a steady climb, not the usual erratic mess, so something was different, but no plans to repeat that fill level, so not going to dwell on why.

Knowing the first 5 or so shots after a fill are usually erratic, I did 15 shots with the first pellet type, and 10 each thereafter. 
Using single-shot adapter, my cadence is about 15 seconds between shots (shoot, note velocity, write it down, reload, aim at spinner...) BUT when switching pellet types, there is an extra 15 seconds or so switching tins and counting out 10 pellets.  So there may be evidence that extra delay causes a slightly faster shot, but I didn't see it.  Admittedly I'm mixing the pellet weight change AND the extra delay, not a perfect experiment, but good news is that it looks like neither affects first shot in the string velocity significantly.

I also wanted to compare ES for the 7 pellet types, but 10 shots (only 3 for JTS, not compared) doesn't seem to be enough.  CPHPs were the best!  Tied with AA18 with an ES of 8fps.  Worst was Daisy with ES of 15fps.  How I managed to get 10 good CPHPs in a row the world will never know.  I think the military does 30 shots to test batches of ammo, that's probably what I'll do if I repeat the test.

Pic below is the data.  Switching pellet weights never seems to significantly affect the regulator / first shot velocity. 

[Firewalker]

Of the 28 Notos I've had hands on  90% slugged at .2172" . One slugged at .2175" and one slugged at. 2170".

The .2175 bore allowed the budget pellets to drop out of the barrel unaided after clearing the breach but held 1MOA at 30y consistently throughout a full magazine using JSB 13.93gr pellets.

The .2172 bores allowed the budget pellets to drag all the way through. These barrels had the best groupings at 10y and 50y but 30y shots were only passable.

The .2170 barrel did the very best all around with 1MOA groups from 10y, 30y & 50y consistently through an entire magazine.

JTS 18gr pellets outshines all other pellets at 50y with a single group of 6 landing on top of each other with a center to center measurement of just .485".

I did not record any chrony data except for average speeds across one magazine for each gun tested.

I know, nothing to do with regulator creep but it's data I wanted to share with you.

[TorqueMaster]

Very cool you have access to so many samples to test!   Very interesting data, thanks for posting.

The most common -- the .2172", you said:
"The .2172 bores allowed the budget pellets to drag all the way through. These barrels had the best groupings at 10y and 50y but 30y shots were only passable."

When you do the 10, 30, 50yard testing, that's  with the JSB 13.93's?   All at "stock" regulator setting, and hammer spring setting?
Are those JSB pellets the Match 13.73s?  There's also JSB 14.35 Express, or 13.43 RS, but I don't see 13.93. 

Curious behavior -- I've heard of slugs getting better downrange, but unusual for pellets.  So so at 30, don't bother at 50...

[Firewalker]

Very cool you have access to so many samples to test!   Very interesting data, thanks for posting.

The most common -- the .2172", you said:
"The .2172 bores allowed the budget pellets to drag all the way through. These barrels had the best groupings at 10y and 50y but 30y shots were only passable."

When you do the 10, 30, 50yard testing, that's  with the JSB 13.93's?   All at "stock" regulator setting, and hammer spring setting?
Are those JSB pellets the Match 13.73s?  There's also JSB 14.35 Express, or 13.43 RS, but I don't see 13.93. 

Curious behavior -- I've heard of slugs getting better downrange, but unusual for pellets.  So so at 30, don't bother at 50...

Nah, you can see the pellet run a lazy spiral, I bet Scott understands why.

Yupper, 13.43, dicks-lecia.

[TorqueMaster]

Very cool you have access to so many samples to test!   Very interesting data, thanks for posting.

The most common -- the .2172", you said:
"The .2172 bores allowed the budget pellets to drag all the way through. These barrels had the best groupings at 10y and 50y but 30y shots were only passable."

When you do the 10, 30, 50yard testing, that's  with the JSB 13.93's?   All at "stock" regulator setting, and hammer spring setting?
Are those JSB pellets the Match 13.73s?  There's also JSB 14.35 Express, or 13.43 RS, but I don't see 13.93. 

Curious behavior -- I've heard of slugs getting better downrange, but unusual for pellets.  So so at 30, don't bother at 50...

Nah, you can see the pellet run a lazy spiral, I bet Scott understands why.

Yupper, 13.43, dicks-lecia.

Maybe you can see the lazy spiral -- I can't see anything faster than 300-400fps.

Guessing the pellet is rotationally understabilized from the get-go, doesn't matter much at 10y, matters most at 30y, and starts to self correct by 50y?  Similar to a slug shot from a pellet barrel.  Unclear why bore size affects that if it's in contact all the way.   Interesting, though.

[Firewalker]

Nah, you can see the pellet run a lazy spiral, I bet Scott understands why.

Yupper, 13.43, dicks-lecia.

I find that I can see the pellets clearly through the scope out to the point it drops out of the FOV if I have a clear blue sky to shoot at.
Maybe you can see the lazy spiral -- I can't see anything faster than 300-400fps.

Guessing the pellet is rotationally understabilized from the get-go, doesn't matter much at 10y, matters most at 30y, and starts to self correct by 50y?  Similar to a slug shot from a pellet barrel.  Unclear why bore size affects that if it's in contact all the way.   Interesting, though.

[TorqueMaster]

Mostly I've been enjoying this Notos as I intended  -- backyard plinking offhand at 25-35 yards.  I like bench shooting, but offhand has always been, for me, the truest shooting challenge.   I have a set of 3 spinners on the fenceline.  The smallest is a challenge for me to hit, about 1-5/8".  The other two spinners are confidence boosters, or to help verify POI hasn't changed on me.

I was primarily using a Daisy 853 at 25 yards, that small spinner being roughly 6.5 moa.  Felt good if I hit it a few times, I think 6 out of 10 was my best ever.

Now I'm using the Notos, backed up to 33 yards, that spinner is now ~5 moa.  4-6 out of 10 is typical, and hit 8 of 10 once.  Still trying for that 10/10.  This is pretty much the right plinker for me -- very light, plenty precise, 70 shots on a fill, and very quiet to boot -- what I was looking for when I joined the forum. 

I did settle down and do more bench shooting -- almost windless still evenings -- to compare ammo types.  I used to use the single-shot adapter, but now I'm using my prototype 10-shot magazine.  All 3D printed, stole a spring and the basic design from an Avenger magazine.  This one hasn't failed to rotate properly in 300-400 shots or so, I guess it's a winner. 

More ammo results, 33 yards, 5-shot groups unless otherwise noted:

Daisy Precision Max Hollow Points (Spain)
1-1/4" ,  1-5/16", 1-5/8"   (consistently unimpressive)

JSB 16
15/16", 5/16"  (got my first sub-moa group!)

CPHP 7/8", 1", 1-7/16"  (not bad -- last group had one flier or it would have been 3/4")

H&N FTT
5/8", 11/16", 9/16" (last group was 10 shots!)  My current go-to pellet.

Baracuda 18
7/16", 11/16"  (great too!)

Baracuda 15
1-1/2", 11/16" (has potential...)

It likes a lot of pellets.  More testing needed, but FTT and JSB 16 have my attention.  CPHP might be a good cheap plinker too...if I limit expectations and take time to weed out the runts...