.25 Dragonfly MK2 by Wes Bashforth.

[Horatio]

I have 3 projects to finish up before posting a more comprehensive review.

I am not a machinist. So I read of RSterne making a Disco pumper in .25 and thought “That is what I want! Why doesn’t Crosman make a new 1400 or 101 souped up in .25?” I have a B19 and can’t stand it.

Reading all the Dragonfly praise I thought maybe the perfect platform if someone can bore the breach to .25 and fit an appropriate barrel and bolt.

Wes Bashforth agreed to do it for me. He said he can do caliber change and ship immediately or tune it if I’m not in a rush. I asked for it to be tuned.

He emailed me saying he was getting close to 50fpe with 25gr pellets at 20 pumps.

I got 700fps with 34gr JSB at 15 pumps. I had a cheap Chinese handheld chrony and felt something sting my fingers as the shot went off. So I wouldn’t be surprised if the pellet clipped the chrony making my number lower than reality. So that’s 34fpe? I would have been happy with anything over 20.

So far, very pleased with the rifle.

This first post is just to hold a thread and archive my thoughts.

Will come back later with a more thorough review.

[Spacebus]

I have 3 projects to finish up before posting a more comprehensive review.

I am not a machinist. So I read of RSterne making a Disco pumper in .25 and thought “That is what I want! Why doesn’t Crosman make a new 1400 or 101 souped up in .25?” I have a B19 and can’t stand it.

Reading all the Dragonfly praise I thought maybe the perfect platform if someone can bore the breach to .25 and fit an appropriate barrel and bolt.

Wes Bashforth agreed to do it for me. He said he can do caliber change and ship immediately or tune it if I’m not in a rush. I asked for it to be tuned.

He emailed me saying he was getting close to 50fpe with 25gr pellets at 20 pumps.

I got 700fps with 34gr JSB at 15 pumps. I had a cheap Chinese handheld chrony and felt something sting my fingers as the shot went off. So I wouldn’t be surprised if the pellet clipped the chrony making my number lower than reality. So that’s 34fpe? I would have been happy with anything over 20.

So far, very pleased with the rifle.

This first post is just to hold a thread and archive my thoughts.

Will come back later with a more thorough review.

I love what Wes is doing with these SPA/Artemis guns.

[HPP-Mechanic]

Must have some serious wizardry going onto achieve those #'s. I've never heard of a .22 Dragonfly2 doing more than hi 600's, with a 14-15gr pellet at 15 pumps. What has to be done to get that kind of power?

[Horatio]

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=195725.300

[Horatio]

Must have some serious wizardry going onto achieve those #'s. I've never heard of a .22 Dragonfly2 doing more than hi 600's, with a 14-15gr pellet at 15 pumps. What has to be done to get that kind of power?

I don’t know all that went into it.

There are 2 things I can tell from the users perspective, but I don’t know if Wes wants to corner the market on tuning these or not.

If you read about what goes into a steroid 392 or the super pumper Disco it’s probably similar types of mods.

I’d really like to push a heavy(ish) wadcutter or SWC faced pellet out of this one.

Will not be able to do thorough review till probably after Christmas.

[WesBob]

Looks like my two Chinese chronographs (different makes) are in agreement but in error if I was getting close to 50fpe at 20 pumps  and your getting 37 at 15.
I need to get an fx chronograph in the shop to check these out I think. I could not believe my eyes when I was getting 1000fps with the 25.4 gr pellets so I tried a different chronograph and it was just under 1000 with it. Anyway it's putting out some great power!
The mods were pretty simple. Just drilled out the valve port and barrel port and then the biggest modification for speed gain was the easiest of all. I just swapped out the overpowered hammer spring for a Stormrider hammer spring. The Dragonfly hammer spring is making that hammer wack that valve stem so fast its opening and closing super quickly then draining the rest of the air out because the hammer spring is stronger than the valve spring and whatever air is left over. So with the stock spring after five or six pumps you're not really gaining much. With the Stormrider hammer spring it is hitting the valve slower and opening the valve longer so you get all the air out the barrel in one shot and it seriously increases velocity. If you take your Dragonfly and chopped some of the spring length off a few coils at a time you'd see the velocity jump way up.

[Spacebus]

Looks like my two Chinese chronographs (different makes) are in agreement but in error if I was getting close to 50fpe at 20 pumps  and your getting 37 at 15.
I need to get an fx chronograph in the shop to check these out I think. I could not believe my eyes when I was getting 1000fps with the 25.4 gr pellets so I tried a different chronograph and it was just under 1000 with it. Anyway it's putting out some great power!
The mods were pretty simple. Just drilled out the valve port and barrel port and then the biggest modification for speed gain was the easiest of all. I just swapped out the overpowered hammer spring for a Stormrider hammer spring. The Dragonfly hammer spring is making that hammer wack that valve stem so fast its opening and closing super quickly then draining the rest of the air out because the hammer spring is stronger than the valve spring and whatever air is left over. So with the stock spring after five or six pumps you're not really gaining much. With the Stormrider hammer spring it is hitting the valve slower and opening the valve longer so you get all the air out the barrel in one shot and it seriously increases velocity. If you take your Dragonfly and chopped some of the spring length off a few coils at a time you'd see the velocity jump way up.

Is the barrel choked?

[EdinGa]

Not a Dragonfly, and it only makes 15 fpe but it's a short range hammer. Quiet too. Notice the lack of ldc... Don't need one with this baby. I've always wanted a .25 pumper, so I built it and now Wes blows it out of the water. 

[Back_Roads]

  No clue the DF had so much HP hiding under the hood 

[WesBob]

Is the barrel choked?

It's a 25 cal Stormrider barrel I put on there and no it doesn't seem these are choked.

[WesBob]

No clue the DF had so much HP hiding under the hood 

Yeah hey

[WesBob]

Not a Dragonfly, and it only makes 15 fpe but it's a short range hammer. Quiet too. Notice the lack of ldc... Don't need one with this baby. I've always wanted a .25 pumper, so I built it and now Wes blows it out of the water. 

Looks great! That does sound like it'd be nice and quiet.

[EdinGa]

Not a Dragonfly, and it only makes 15 fpe but it's a short range hammer. Quiet too. Notice the lack of ldc... Don't need one with this baby. I've always wanted a .25 pumper, so I built it and now Wes blows it out of the water. 

Looks great! That does sound like it'd be nice and quiet.

I have a question for anyone that wants to chime in. I'm guessing my .25 converted 362 is more efficient because it's making more power with less noise than it's .22 counterpart. Would a low power .30 conversion be even more efficient? Whatsquirrel has inspired me to peer into this rabbit hole. I would be happy lobbing .30s at 12 to 15 fpe. Of course, I'll be casting my own pellets or maybe even round balls.

[Horatio]

Not a Dragonfly, and it only makes 15 fpe but it's a short range hammer. Quiet too. Notice the lack of ldc... Don't need one with this baby. I've always wanted a .25 pumper, so I built it and now Wes blows it out of the water. 

Looks great!
No replacement for displacement.

I think with the bigger displacement of a .25 cylinder the gun is quieter for the same FPE as the PSI is lower by the time the pellet leaves the breach.

Totally just my theory, I’ve never run the same gun in different calibers back to back with a sound meter.

[Horatio]

Looks like my two Chinese chronographs (different makes) are in agreement but in error if I was getting close to 50fpe at 20 pumps  and your getting 37 at 15.
I need to get an fx chronograph in the shop to check these out I think. I could not believe my eyes when I was getting 1000fps with the 25.4 gr pellets so I tried a different chronograph and it was just under 1000 with it. Anyway it's putting out some great power!
The mods were pretty simple. Just drilled out the valve port and barrel port and then the biggest modification for speed gain was the easiest of all. I just swapped out the overpowered hammer spring for a Stormrider hammer spring. The Dragonfly hammer spring is making that hammer wack that valve stem so fast its opening and closing super quickly then draining the rest of the air out because the hammer spring is stronger than the valve spring and whatever air is left over. So with the stock spring after five or six pumps you're not really gaining much. With the Stormrider hammer spring it is hitting the valve slower and opening the valve longer so you get all the air out the barrel in one shot and it seriously increases velocity. If you take your Dragonfly and chopped some of the spring length off a few coils at a time you'd see the velocity jump way up.

I think your clock numbers are the more accurate ones.

I have the really cheap chrono that you hold against the muzzle but I didn’t rearrange the pins from shooting a 16mm barrel through it. I think the pellet clipped the chrony on entry.

I’d like to set up the Caldwell after Christmas and see what’s up.

For now I need to do stuff for the better half and I really need to clean and reorganize garage.

[Horatio]

Not a Dragonfly, and it only makes 15 fpe but it's a short range hammer. Quiet too. Notice the lack of ldc... Don't need one with this baby. I've always wanted a .25 pumper, so I built it and now Wes blows it out of the water. 

Looks great! That does sound like it'd be nice and quiet.

I have a question for anyone that wants to chime in. I'm guessing my .25 converted 362 is more efficient because it's making more power with less noise than it's .22 counterpart. Would a low power .30 conversion be even more efficient? Whatsquirrel has inspired me to peer into this rabbit hole. I would be happy lobbing .30s at 12 to 15 fpe. Of course, I'll be casting my own pellets or maybe even round balls.

I’ve always wanted a .30 muzzleloader, but that’s another story.

[EdinGa]

Is the barrel choked?

It's a 25 cal Stormrider barrel I put on there and no it doesn't seem these are choked.

No choke? Hmmm... I might be buying another NOE mold soon.

[Horatio]

Not a Dragonfly, and it only makes 15 fpe but it's a short range hammer. Quiet too. Notice the lack of ldc... Don't need one with this baby. I've always wanted a .25 pumper, so I built it and now Wes blows it out of the water. 

Looks great! That does sound like it'd be nice and quiet.

I have a question for anyone that wants to chime in. I'm guessing my .25 converted 362 is more efficient because it's making more power with less noise than it's .22 counterpart. Would a low power .30 conversion be even more efficient? Whatsquirrel has inspired me to peer into this rabbit hole. I would be happy lobbing .30s at 12 to 15 fpe. Of course, I'll be casting my own pellets or maybe even round balls.

Maybe the DF2 can be made into a .30?
And if you want lower power keep it under 10 pumps.

Knowing that you and others have made the 1322 (and therefore the 362) into a .25 is part of what put the thought into my head to ask about the DF2 in .25.

Wanting a .25 pumper but not being a machinist and not knowing who is currently in business making bigger steal breaches, not remembering if a .25 NPXL barrel would fit, etc.

[HPP-Mechanic]

I would be curious to see what gains a .22 would see... Wes, how much did you open up the valve & barrel ports?

One thing Im having trouble wrapping my head around-Slowing the hammer down. I thought that the goal to more power was to open the valve up faster, and use a stiffer hammer spring?

 I experimented with my Dragonfly with a spring that was obviously too soft, in an attempt to get an easier cocking bolt. The bolt pulled back much easier, but the hammer had a way softer sounding smack. I also had air left in the gun, and a second dry-fire was needed to empty.

[WesBob]

I would be curious to see what gains a .22 would see... Wes, how much did you open up the valve & barrel ports?

One thing Im having trouble wrapping my head around-Slowing the hammer down. I thought that the goal to more power was to open the valve up faster, and use a stiffer hammer spring?

 I experimented with my Dragonfly with a spring that was obviously too soft, in an attempt to get an easier cocking bolt. The bolt pulled back much easier, but the hammer had a way softer sounding smack. I also had air left in the gun, and a second dry-fire was needed to empty.

I believe it was 3/16 but I'm not even sure now, lol. That would be too much for the 22.
A lot of times that's correct that a more powerful spring will give more power but if you have a short valve stem then it's a balancing act. Too much hammer spring and it opens and closes that valve super fast so only a small amount of air gets up in the barrel. Too little hammer spring and it can't open the valve fully. So it's in between that is optimal. The Dragonfly has way too long and stiff a spring.