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Author Topic: Two awesome prewar pickups  (Read 680 times))

Offline 45flint

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Two awesome prewar pickups
« on: September 18, 2022, 10:39:23 AM »
There were 3 airguns that come up for auction all at the same time that really interested me.  I managed to get 2 of them.  Both in crazy good condition a Diana 30 Military trainer and a FLZ Favorit XX both late 1930ís. One came the day I left for vacation and one arrived the day I got back.  Today its out to the backyard range.

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Offline BanjomanMI76

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Re: Two awesome prewar pickups
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2022, 10:42:20 AM »
Would love to hear how they shoot Steve.
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Offline NeverEnough

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Re: Two awesome prewar pickups
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2022, 11:17:37 AM »
Those are awesome - really hard find vintage guns in that condition
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Offline KWK

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Re: Two awesome prewar pickups
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2022, 02:29:36 PM »
I like that Langenham.
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Offline 45flint

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Re: Two awesome prewar pickups
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2022, 02:36:47 PM »
I like that Langenham.

Way too many pics. Lol. One of the nicest prewar rifles I own.

https://imgur.com/a/wMxTiRX
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Offline CaptJ

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Re: Two awesome prewar pickups
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2022, 09:15:05 PM »
Beautiful buys! I too look forward to hearing how they shoot. Always curious how they compare to their contemporaries too. :)
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Offline 45flint

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Re: Two awesome prewar pickups
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2022, 01:06:13 PM »
Out shooting the Diana model 30.  One of the only German Military trainers that shoots regular pellets. Extremely accurate but a little over 400 FPS with 7 grain pellets.

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Offline KWK

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Re: Two awesome prewar pickups
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2022, 08:18:10 PM »
I like that Langenham.

Way too many pics. Lol. One of the nicest prewar rifles I own.

https://imgur.com/a/wMxTiRX
That's a handsome rifle.
An Original V millita style with a different trigger block and full length stock? ..........For the dyslexic airgunners, I did not say militia!
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Offline 45flint

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Re: Two awesome prewar pickups
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2022, 11:11:07 PM »
I like that Langenham.

Way too many pics. Lol. One of the nicest prewar rifles I own.

https://imgur.com/a/wMxTiRX
That's a handsome rifle.
An Original V millita style with a different trigger block and full length stock? ..........For the dyslexic airgunners, I did not say militia!

Yes its the Original V with a side lever instead of underneath and full stock.  This example was a late 1930ís so improved trigger adjustable with screw on top of cylinder rather than screw on trigger guard.  I think polish and bluing the best of the era.

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Offline Air Head

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Re: Two awesome prewar pickups
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2022, 11:40:35 PM »
That sounds like a great Vacation Sandwich.

Cheers!
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Offline 45flint

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Re: Two awesome prewar pickups
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2022, 07:09:21 AM »
Beautiful buys! I too look forward to hearing how they shoot. Always curious how they compare to their contemporaries too. :)

Chronied the XX and its at 8.5 FPE in 22.  That is hitting pretty hard for the era.  Not sure I have any prewar rifle hitting harder?  Extremely accurate and was zeroed in right from the start.  The fine bead and back sight are as well machined as any rifle I have.  Makes for a excellent shooting rifle.  It could very well have been the finest rifle of its day? 
« Last Edit: September 20, 2022, 07:12:53 AM by 45flint »
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Offline Wayne52

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Re: Two awesome prewar pickups
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2022, 07:14:21 AM »
Very cool rifles Steve !!!
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Offline 19Sheridan57

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Re: Two awesome prewar pickups
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2022, 07:39:33 AM »
   Very nice rifles !
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Offline KWK

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Re: Two awesome prewar pickups
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2022, 10:47:14 AM »
Beautiful buys! I too look forward to hearing how they shoot. Always curious how they compare to their contemporaries too. :)

Chronied the XX and its at 8.5 FPE in 22.  That is hitting pretty hard for the era.  Not sure I have any prewar rifle hitting harder?  Extremely accurate and was zeroed in right from the start.  The fine bead and back sight are as well machined as any rifle I have.  Makes for a excellent shooting rifle.  It could very well have been the finest rifle of its day?
The last 1906 BSA Air Rifle I rebuilt makes 8.6 and it has some issues in the cylinder bore.

I'll have to chrono some of my BSA prewar (Pre WWI) Sporting patterns. I think I can get 10 or11. Pretty sure a 1919- 39 Long Tom can do it as well. You would think I would have done this already, but.......
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Offline 45flint

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Re: Two awesome prewar pickups
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2022, 01:20:29 PM »
Beautiful buys! I too look forward to hearing how they shoot. Always curious how they compare to their contemporaries too. :)

Chronied the XX and its at 8.5 FPE in 22.  That is hitting pretty hard for the era.  Not sure I have any prewar rifle hitting harder?  Extremely accurate and was zeroed in right from the start.  The fine bead and back sight are as well machined as any rifle I have.  Makes for a excellent shooting rifle.  It could very well have been the finest rifle of its day?
The last 1906 BSA Air Rifle I rebuilt makes 8.6 and it has some issues in the cylinder bore.

I'll have to chrono some of my BSA prewar (Pre WWI) Sporting patterns. I think I can get 10 or11. Pretty sure a 1919- 39 Long Tom can do it as well. You would think I would have done this already, but.......

Would be interesting to know what was the power with orginal springs?  I think these early BSA are rebuilt and often powered up?
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Offline oldair

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Re: Two awesome prewar pickups
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2022, 05:42:06 PM »
A couple things:
1. That side-release Original V in the catalog was available in "other calibers on request", and options included a 2-stage trigger or DST.

2. As to power output for old BSA's, years ago I chrono'd two minty ones.  A pre-WWI 'Standard' .22 as-received made 10 ft-lb with Meisterkugeln, and a post-WWI 'Standard' .22 that I cleaned and re-lubed made 11 ft-lb with Hobbys.  A couple other well-used examples were much lower.

Don R.

Offline 45flint

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Re: Two awesome prewar pickups
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2022, 06:29:55 PM »
A couple things:
1. That side-release Original V in the catalog was available in "other calibers on request", and options included a 2-stage trigger or DST.

2. As to power output for old BSA's, years ago I chrono'd two minty ones.  A pre-WWI 'Standard' .22 as-received made 10 ft-lb with Meisterkugeln, and a post-WWI 'Standard' .22 that I cleaned and re-lubed made 11 ft-lb with Hobbys.  A couple other well-used examples were much lower.

Don R.

Good German reading!  The optional 2 stage trigger would make sense given an example in the ďGalleryĒ with a serial number less than 20 away from mine had a trigger with the screw adjustment on the trigger guard (single stage). 

https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery.com/flz-friedrich-langenhan/flz-favorit-xx-air-rifle/
« Last Edit: September 20, 2022, 06:37:56 PM by 45flint »
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Offline KWK

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Re: Two awesome prewar pickups
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2022, 09:50:09 PM »
I've seen dual replacement springs in BSA underlevers that are so stiff that the gun is very hard to cock. That's way too hard on the linkage. I just took them out and shelfed them. HW50 springs are about right. Airsporter/Mercury springs are good too. Good for the 45 inch Sporting patterns and Long Toms. Cut a few coils off for a 43 1/2 inch gun. There shouldn't be too much preload to screw the back block on without much effort. Same for light and ladies pattern (39" guns).
    You have to be specific when mentioning a "Standard". That meant 6 or more different models depending on the era. The first "Standards" were 43 inch .177. You only had the Ladies model .177 and the Standard size 43" .177 at that time.

See the rearsight on the Langenham? That "turret" sight is BSA copied. Everybody copied it. It first appeared on a BSA 22 rimfire before BSA used it on their 1919 and later underlevers. Eventually  it appeared (slight changes)on the MkI Airsporter and Cadet Major.

The first sight like this was the "Cash Register" sight on the 1904 Lincoln Jeffries "H the Lincoln" and 1906 "BSA Air Rifle". Later enlarged to the No. 10 as seen on the Improved Model D's. Then updated again for 1919. That's the version so often copied. I think the last gun to use it (very similar version) was the MkIII Webley up till 1975.
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Offline 1900colt

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Re: Two awesome prewar pickups
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2022, 12:00:45 AM »
Very nice looking guns Steve...congratulations on those finds!
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Offline 45flint

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Re: Two awesome prewar pickups
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2022, 08:12:49 AM »
I've seen dual replacement springs in BSA underlevers that are so stiff that the gun is very hard to cock. That's way too hard on the linkage. I just took them out and shelfed them. HW50 springs are about right. Airsporter/Mercury springs are good too. Good for the 45 inch Sporting patterns and Long Toms. Cut a few coils off for a 43 1/2 inch gun. There shouldn't be too much preload to screw the back block on without much effort. Same for light and ladies pattern (39" guns).
    You have to be specific when mentioning a "Standard". That meant 6 or more different models depending on the era. The first "Standards" were 43 inch .177. You only had the Ladies model .177 and the Standard size 43" .177 at that time.

See the rearsight on the Langenham? That "turret" sight is BSA copied. Everybody copied it. It first appeared on a BSA 22 rimfire before BSA used it on their 1919 and later underlevers. Eventually  it appeared (slight changes)on the MkI Airsporter and Cadet Major.

The first sight like this was the "Cash Register" sight on the 1904 Lincoln Jeffries "H the Lincoln" and 1906 "BSA Air Rifle". Later enlarged to the No. 10 as seen on the Improved Model D's. Then updated again for 1919. That's the version so often copied. I think the last gun to use it (very similar version) was the MkIII Webley up till 1975.

The BSA Standard I have is a 1920ís, got some miles on it but in very good shooting condition.  One of my favorite air rifles is my 1919 BSA Light.  These are the rifles that started it all and were copied in so many ways.  As shooting rifles they are very hard to beat even now.  If I had to hit a target I would take out my Light with its aperature sight over any rifle I own.  But to me the best made prewar rifle has always been the Diana 58 2nd model.  A copy of the BSA but with a full stock, superior machining and bluing finish.  This XX actually rivals it.  I didnít really expect that. I really think the Diana was the rifle that was pushing their design. I think its machining is just a small step above the Diana and the finish and bluing is as well. Quality of the stocks equal.  It has more power as well in a less beast of a riflle. Lol. The BSA finish is just not comparable. 
« Last Edit: September 21, 2022, 09:14:27 AM by 45flint »
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