Diana 34 pg4 vortek power

[Florida airgunner]

Hector, thanks for the great advice and getting me back to reality I ll save up for a vortek, but what's exactly are the benefits over the stock gun?

[Mrblonde40]

The Vortek kits mostly improve the shot cycle.  When I first got my HW95, stock, it would twang when fired and vibrate all over, causing me to lose target in the scope.  With vortek installed I can watch the pellets hit, no twang, and a quick bump to the shoulder and it's done.  It reduces the mechanical noise slightly (unless you have twang, then it reduces it a lot).  Some people report power increase, some say same power as stock, I can't say either way, because I just found out my barrel was screwed up and may not have been sealing properly, so until I replace bbl I can't say one way or the other.  Some claim the same results with other brands (ie Macarri, Titan), I personally haven't tried those.  Vortek makes no claims of increased accuracy, but I can say the improved shot cycle and being able to follow through allow ME to shoot more accurately.

[A moron]

Maybe you need to keep shooting for the spring and all to settle / relax in good?

That one I shot that squirrel head I showed took forever  and lots and lots of pellets.

I almost gave up on it and stay d kinda disappointed . Now  it's on the mark today when it could not hit the broad side of a barn at first rested. 

I guess some guns can take a lot extra break in time/ shots.

[HectorMedina]

Hector, thanks for the great advice and getting me back to reality I ll save up for a vortek, but what's exactly are the benefits over the stock gun?

Andrew;

I've been coaching and teaching how to shoot to all levels of shooters for well over 4 decades, I am glad that you have the right attitude because that is where it all starts. Congrats!

There are finer tunes than a Vortek kit, but for a do it yourself kind of thing, it is easily the one that will provide the most "bang for the buck". For high volume shooters, though they do have some fundamental drawbacks. For the time being, it is the best course of action for you.

ALL airguns are different, this is something that is hard  to accept, but even consecutively numbered guns are different. They behave differently and they reach their optima at different points with different pellets, so it is just one of those things that is what it is. No real sense in arguing with reality.
So, it's up to you to find the best pellet and see where the gun is at, after installing the Vortek and "shooting it in".

If you are going to install a new Vortek kit, there is something you should try, but ONLY if you are absolutely confident to be able to do it in a safe manner; it is called "stress tempering".
What you need to do is setup some sort of restraining device for a partially cocked gun. Sometimes a large plywood board, and old table, or a true carpenter work-table can be used, but you need to be able to keep the whole thing in position for 48 hours.

After installing the Vortek kit, what you do is cock it ½ of the way (it does not have to be EXACT, just eyeball the angle), and then keep the gun in that position for 48 hours.
When the 48 hours have passed, then you can relax the gun for a while (couple of hours will do) and then you can start shooting.

Make sure you follow the Vortek kit's instructions and that you are at all times safe in your work practices.

After you have shot the new spring at least 100 shots, then try to find the best pellet. Do not leave any stone unturned, sometimes you find that barrels like the most unexpected pellets.
A typical starting point could be some of the samplers that are offered by JSB, H&N, or Straight Shooters, if you test them all you will get an idea of what WEIGHT your rifle prefers and then you can dive deeper into the different offerings in that weight region.

Once you find a pellet that is "good enough", use the testing as practice. Be honest with yourself and call the shots before looking them up. You will notice immediately that with some pellets your calls are more "spot-on" than with others. Those pellets merit more testing.

Once you figure out which pellet(s) can be used with a reasonable margin of accuracy and precision, then try different holds (a hold is defined as the set of pressures & forces exerted in different directions by the shooter's hands on the stock). In GENERAL, I find I can be MOST consistent when I hold the rifle close to the forend screws locations, and exert a mild pressure into the shoulder, then use a very relaxed trigger hand with no pressure or force on the stock and just squeezing the trigger between the ball at the base of the thumb and the tip of the index. But that is me, for sure you are different. Try different things and see where YOU are most consistent.

At the same time you can start familiarizing yourself with the anatomy of your targets, in that sense you might find these blog entries useful:

https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/the-other-side-of-an-accurate-shot

https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/the-other-side-of-an-accurate-shot-ii

https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/the-other-side-of-an-accurate-shot-iii

It's all a long road, but very enjoyable.

So, enjoy the trip, more than the destination!

Thanks, keep well and shoot straight!






HM

[Mrblonde40]

You do need to try most of what's out there to see what's best, it can be a surprise.  Those oddball looking Baracuda Hunter Extremes were the second best pellet in my gun.  And the results between the Baracuda light, and the Baracuda Field target (2 pellets that SEEM identical) were vastly different.  My thanks to Hector for suggesting those in one of his articles.  You will need a starting point though, I would try either JSB (or Air arms) 8.44 grain or H&N 8.64 FTT first.   Chances are that one of those will give good results, then you can try others to further refine your search to find the best one.  I'm replacing a barrel right now and after I break it in, those will be the first 2 I test.

[NorCalMan]

I've had three M34 (T06) and stock they were 16 ft lbs in .177cal and 17 ft. lbs in .22cal with lead pellets.

[Reidy]

To follow on from the comment of "each rifle is different", the 38 Firebird I used to have (FT version of the 34) used to shoot well with RWS super h point and superdome. My 36 carbine doesn't like superdome pellets though it does like JSB exact RS. I've still a bunch to try with it yet though and I'm also considering a vortec or other similar kit to smooth it out.

Straightshooters are regularly out of stock of their samplers. Try here for comparable samplers https://ebay.com/usr/sjbelle11

[Toxylon]

It takes a lot less power than you'd think for a clean kill, as long as your shot placement is correct.  Learned this from experience.

Very true. But another truth is that a .22 / .25 cal pellet with 20 - 30 fpe behind it takes down even bigger small game very effectively with heart-lung shots, where the target is many times bigger than the brain, which is less than one half of most animals' heads. (So, no headshots, but brainshots are needed when targeting the head). With the 12 fpe pellet, a shot to the vitals of a hare etc. is a no go, a hit animal often traveling out of reach for a lingering death.

[Bayman]

It takes a lot less power than you'd think for a clean kill, as long as your shot placement is correct.  Learned this from experience.

Very true. But another truth is that a .22 / .25 cal pellet with 20 - 30 fpe behind it takes down even bigger small game very effectively with heart-lung shots, where the target is many times bigger than the brain, which is less than one half of most animals' heads. (So, no headshots, but brainshots are needed when targeting the head). With the 12 fpe pellet, a shot to the vitals of a hare etc. is a no go, a hit animal often traveling out of reach for a lingering death.

I don't understand. A 12fpe pellet gun is incapable of penetrating the vitals of a bunny? What pellet at what range?

[Reidy]

It takes a lot less power than you'd think for a clean kill, as long as your shot placement is correct.  Learned this from experience.

Very true. But another truth is that a .22 / .25 cal pellet with 20 - 30 fpe behind it takes down even bigger small game very effectively with heart-lung shots, where the target is many times bigger than the brain, which is less than one half of most animals' heads. (So, no headshots, but brainshots are needed when targeting the head). With the 12 fpe pellet, a shot to the vitals of a hare etc. is a no go, a hit animal often traveling out of reach for a lingering death.

I don't understand. A 12fpe pellet gun is incapable of penetrating the vitals of a bunny? What pellet at what range?

It'll penetrate just fine but they don't do enough damage to incapacitate them almost immediately. 12ft/lbs will just punch a small hole with little deformation of the pellet. This doesn't cause enough damage to stop a rabbit or hare in its tracks. That's why it's so important to get your shot placement correct with low output air rifles.

[Toxylon]

What Reidy said, or:

Penetration is far from everything. I can shoot, literally by a single breath, a blowgun dart made from piano wire, through the rib cage of a large dog, but it will not kill the beast any time soon. But plenty of penetration is needed, too.

Take 50 yards, the minimum distance many hare let a crafty hunter approach. Consider the fact that winter time hare have a full inch of dense fur covering the animal.(it really slows a pellet down, getting dragged into the wound channel with the pellet). Chest-shooting bigger small game requires the pellet usually to puncture a rib, or on occasion a should blade, before it does any real damage. Then the pellet must make a sizeable hole through the lungs, leading to a instant drop in blood pressure, ie. consciousness, lest the animal travel several hundred yards and hide effectively.

The quick chest kill isn't going to happen with a small, low-energy pellet. Whereas the same pellet, aimed and hit at the coin-sized brain, a mighty small target at 50, is all it takes. I'll put my money and pellet to the palm-sized vitals, with plenty of punch.

Mat Manning, a Brit of Youtube fame, lays the perimeters of 12 fpe pellet gun hunting as such: the smallest quarry, such as magpies and collared doves (in the 300-gram range) can be killed by a pellet directly to the chest. Slightly bigger small game, such as wood pigeon, crow and grey squirrels (in the little over 1 lbs. range) require careful consideration of shooting angles and a precise aim for chest shots. That's it. Anything bigger is to be shot only with brain shots. The hare around here get up to 14 lbs. live weight.

[Mrblonde40]

I don't shoot 50 yards generally, and what I "hunt" are woodchuck and red squirrel.  It doesn't take a lot to fully penetrate a red squirrels skull and anything after full penetration is wasted energy, unless you have a pellet that expands reliably.  I did not get through and through penetration on the head but the 2 I shot this spring dropped immediately.   So why would I use more energy when I know I can hit the brain?  I trust the headshot and it's 97%+ instant in my experience.

[nced]

The Vortek kits mostly improve the shot cycle.  When I first got my HW95, stock, it would twang when fired and vibrate all over, causing me to lose target in the scope.  With vortek installed I can watch the pellets hit, no twang, and a quick bump to the shoulder and it's done.  It reduces the mechanical noise slightly (unless you have twang, then it reduces it a lot).  Some people report power increase, some say same power as stock, I can't say either way, because I just found out my barrel was screwed up and may not have been sealing properly, so until I replace bbl I can't say one way or the other.  Some claim the same results with other brands (ie Macarri, Titan), I personally haven't tried those.  Vortek makes no claims of increased accuracy, but I can say the improved shot cycle and being able to follow through allow ME to shoot more accurately.

" I can say the improved shot cycle and being able to follow through allow ME to shoot more accurately"
Hummm.........I've bought, tuned and sold several Beeman R9s over a couple decades and I didn't have a single one that wouldn't put a die lot marked and dated .177 CPL into a 1/2" group at 30 yards while sitting on a bucket resting the gun on cross sticks straight from the box in "factory twang mode" after the initial bore clean and a few dozen "seasoning shots". Matter of fact, while a good tune and a couple modifications did make the gun more consistent from shot to shot I didn't notice a significant improvement in grouping with a "bone stock R9". 

[Mrblonde40]

I did not say it increased or decreased the accuracy of the gun.  The vibration and twang were gone, making the gun more pleasant to shoot which allowed the shooter to shoot more accuracy due to greater comfort, less fatigue, etc.  Sorry, I look at the quote and I see I phrased that in an vague way.

[nced]

I did not say it increased or decreased the accuracy of the gun.  The vibration and twang were gone, making the gun more pleasant to shoot which allowed the shooter to shoot more accuracy due to greater comfort, less fatigue, etc.  Sorry, I look at the quote and I see I phrased that in an vague way.

Sorry for the misquote! Point well made and I also find twang/vibration to be annoying when shooting.

[Mrblonde40]

I think taking the twang out let's me relax more, quieter.  More relaxed, shoot better.

[HectorMedina]

I think taking the twang out let's me relax more, quieter.  More relaxed, shoot better.

Great insight! and two things that need to be emphasized:

1.- Actually, the human brain reacts to "sounds" that the human ear cannot hear.
The "Twang" is just the audible subset of a conglomerate of vibrations produced by the rifle.
It is a well understood fact in industrial environments that vibrations fatigue the person operating the machinery, even if there is no sound.

2.- Ear plugs or earmuffs will not prevent the vibrations transmitted through the stock and your jawbone to your brain.

Stay alert and detect when you are fatigued by a particular rifle. It is a sure sign that it needs some work done. Take rests and don't allow yourself to think that you can shoot some more with any good effect.
Save yourself some frustration.

;-)

Keep well and shoot straight!





HM

[RedFeather]

I would stick with what you have and learn to shoot it. Springers are different from rimfires and PCP's. They take a LOT of practice plus finding which pellets shoot best in YOUR gun, being finicky creatures. (A sample pack from Strsught Shooters is helpful there.) If you can't hit it, you can't kill it, no matter what the power level is. Finding a used .22 barrel for your gun is almost like looking for hen's teeth. I've been keep an eye out for a .22 barrel for one of my older 34's for quite a while now, following the classifieds every day.  Closest I've come are complete guns and even THOSE don't come up often. Either Diana sold fewer and/or owners will not let them go. Good luck with your 34. Mastering that will give you the extra benefit of being a fine "powder burner" shot. And at today's ammo prices, costs a load less, too.