Author Topic: NOE 250-27-RF (Read 8948 times))

EdinGa · « **Reply #80 on:** July 20, 2021, 01:02:39 PM »

I was plundering through my reloading drawers and found a scale check weight with a ball on the end. I used it to open up the skirts and saw a definite improvement at 50 yards. The results were far from consistent but it does give me hope for salvaging this mold.

JimD · « **Reply #81 on:** July 20, 2021, 01:09:05 PM »

Your comments caused me to measure the skirts on my cast pellets with this mold versus some JSB and FX pellets my Avenger shoots well - 1/2 inch or less at 33 yards. I also checked heads. I saw no difference in heads but there was a difference in skirts with the cast pellets the smallest. Heads were all around 6.3mm or .248 inches. FX skirts were about .257 inches and JSB a little bigger at around .259. But my cast were smaller at about .252.

But I also had a little success tuning my gun to decrease group size with them. I increased hammer spring tension by 1/4 turn and got a sub 1 inch group at 33 yards. Best before this was about 1.5 inches. But I ran out of cast pellets. So I cast another 60 and it started raining.

There is more in my "need advice" thread but my other observation is my weights have dropped by nearly 1 grain as I've cast more pellets with this mold.

I don't think 1 group proves anything and I am still not getting as small a group as I want but maybe these pellets want more of a jolt from the air to push the skirts more firmly into the rifling. Or maybe my next group will be back up around 1.5 inches. When it stops raining I will do some more testing and see.

EdinGa · « **Reply #82 on:** July 20, 2021, 01:16:41 PM »

Mine were grouping closer to 4 inches at 50 yards before I flared the skirts. I did it by hand, so I know it wasn't consistent but it did help. I'm still not happy with the the mold, but if I can come up with a way to size them quickly and consistently on one of my presses, then I guess I can live with it. .25 caliber pellets aren't cheap, and I shoot a lot.

scion19801 · « **Reply #83 on:** July 20, 2021, 01:45:17 PM »

I just checked my mold with various from the tin pellets selected and get around a .253" skirt diameter with my mold. I wonder if a an angled tip gauge pin could be made that follows the skirt angle but more flared at the rear to allow you to open the skirts would be the easiest thing to try.
I have a lathe and could try to make one. What size are you at currently and where do you want to be so that an angle could be determined for you to try out.

EdinGa · « **Reply #84 on:** July 20, 2021, 01:50:53 PM »

My mold is dropping them around .253-.254. I need to be at .259-.260. That's what my AA 25.4s are running and it loves them.

rsterne · « **Reply #85 on:** July 20, 2021, 02:43:05 PM »

If you are sure you have the pins set at the correct height and the skirt of the pellet is coming out too small, phone Al to let him know....

Bob

JimD · « **Reply #86 on:** July 20, 2021, 02:57:57 PM »

Bob,

That is consistent with my thought. Although if we could impose on Wayne a little more, it would be really nice to know the skirt size coming out of his earlier build mold.

I got a break in the rain and tried my tuning ideas. I got a couple cases where I have three shots touching including one 3 shot group that is about 1/4 inch center to center. But right after that I get a 1.5 inch group - or bigger. Not at all consistent. I tried to increase regulator pressure and may have increased it 100 psi but it did not obviously help. More hammer spring tension made groups bigger. I could go up several hundred psi yet on the regulator but I am getting somewhat frustrated. Maybe it is time to talk to our supplier. Groups that range from 1/4 inch to 2+ inches are not terribly useful (I normally shoot at 100 feet, the longest I can in my yard).

I changed my scope during testing of these cast pellets so I double checked that with a couple more FX groups (25.4 grain). One was one quarter inch the other a little under 1/2. I adjusted the windage back from where I'd set it for the cast and it moved just like it should and it was after that I shot the smaller group. So even though the West Hunter 4-16 is a cheap scope I don't think it is causing or even significantly contributing to the problem.

Skirts smaller than the pellets my gun likes and smaller than the suppliers drawing seems to be the issue. As a newbie caster I initially thought it was me - and it probably was for awhile. But knowing others are having issues and seeing the consistency of my pellets get to possibly better than my purchased pellets, I am doubting that as the cause now.

I plan to sleep on it and if I still feel the same I will give him a call. My only other thought is to go up further on regulator pressure and mess with the hammer spring some. But the inconsistent grouping is causing me to question whether I can ever "get there".

Jim

EdinGa · « **Reply #87 on:** July 20, 2021, 03:09:28 PM »

Quote from: rsterne on July 20, 2021, 02:43:05 PM

If you are sure you have the pins set at the correct height and the skirt of the pellet is coming out too small, phone Al to let him know....

Bob

I believe they're set correctly. It seems like several of us are having the same problem.

scion19801 · « **Reply #88 on:** July 20, 2021, 03:22:08 PM »

i tired my idea and it dont work. I loose length and only gain .002" id skirt diameter and lose .010" in length

EdinGa · « **Reply #89 on:** July 20, 2021, 03:25:24 PM »

I can easily get the diameter I need with the round ball. Some were over .270, but I didn't check length. Accuracy is definitely better though. I picked out the ones that were between .260 and .265.

rsterne · « **Reply #90 on:** July 20, 2021, 03:38:31 PM »

I measured pellets from the three .25 cal moulds I have here.... The Hunter & Magnum moulds run 0.255"-0.259" on the skirt, and the Target runs 0.253"-0.257".... I did find that the shortest pins (producing the heaviest of the HB pellets) tended to be a bit smaller on the skirt diameter, which is strange, considering they are in the same mould cavity.... Perhaps the shorter skirt, with more lead close to it inside the cavity, shrinks more on cooling?.... Most of the skirts are not perfectly round, there is more variation in diameter on one skirt (when measured at several places around it) than on the head diameter on the same pellet....

Bob

EdinGa · « **Reply #91 on:** July 20, 2021, 03:42:37 PM »

Quote from: rsterne on July 20, 2021, 03:38:31 PM

I measured pellets from the three .25 cal moulds I have here.... The Hunter & Magnum moulds run 0.255"-0.259" on the skirt, and the Target runs 0.253"-0.257".... I did find that the shortest pins (producing the heaviest of the HB pellets) tended to be a bit smaller on the skirt diameter, which is strange, considering they are in the same mould cavity.... Perhaps the shorter skirt, with more lead close to it inside the cavity, shrinks more on cooling?.... Most of the skirts are not perfectly round, there is more variation in diameter on one skirt (when measured at several places around it) than on the head diameter on the same pellet....

Bob

I've noticed the same thing with my mold. The skirts vary a good bit when rotated. I ran mine through my .250 bushing then, flared the skirts back out and the diameter was more consistent.

rsterne · « **Reply #92 on:** July 20, 2021, 04:16:28 PM »

The skirt is supposed to start out larger than the groove diameter of the barrel, which then sizes it when fired....

Bob

EdinGa · « **Reply #93 on:** July 20, 2021, 04:21:14 PM »

That's the problem I'm having. I'm getting better accuracy with skirts flared to .270 than the ones straight from the mold. I just need a way to get them to .260 consistently.

EdinGa · « **Reply #94 on:** July 20, 2021, 04:25:40 PM »

I just found another issue. The drawing shows a length of .300 and mine are dropping closer to .290.

scion19801 · « **Reply #95 on:** July 20, 2021, 09:29:43 PM »

What is the temp of your lead during pours? It could be excessive shrink causing the issues. I cast all my stuff at 800*F and have had great performance at that temp.

EdinGa · « **Reply #96 on:** July 20, 2021, 09:58:13 PM »

I don't have a thermometer but I guess I need to pick one up. I usually cast everything between 4 and 5 on the dial of my Lee 10lb pot. I've tried these there and at 6 on the dial. It didn't help. I cast from .217 up to .459 and I've never had any issues with shrinkage before. I usually have to size down.

Greg_E · « **Reply #97 on:** July 20, 2021, 11:00:45 PM »

I'm not going to get to cast these until this weekend, but I'll definitely report back when I do. Waiting for some shims to adjust the pin on my replacement Lyman mold.

Insanity · « **Reply #98 on:** July 20, 2021, 11:03:20 PM »

Quote from: EdinGa on July 20, 2021, 09:58:13 PM

I don't have a thermometer but I guess I need to pick one up.

This is the one I use.

Madd Hatter · « **Reply #99 on:** July 20, 2021, 11:09:28 PM »

I just tried these in my sentry and it's all over the place. To be fair it wasn't bench rested but resting on the rail of the porch with me sitting in a chair. Just the forend resting on the rail.

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NOE 250-27-RF

Author Topic: NOE 250-27-RF (Read 8948 times))