NOE 250-27-RF

[Spacebus]

I cast 50-60 pellets using the lightest (longest) pin today.  I don't really see any difference from the pellets I have from my old mold and my guns don't seem to see a difference either.  Groups from my Avenger are still all over 1 inch.  I got a couple groups about 1/2 inch with my P35 but that was with the pellets from the old mold.  Groups with the new mold were generally around 3/4 inch but some were over 1 inch.  All my groups were at 100 feet which is about 30 meters.  I don't think the two smaller groups were because the new mold is better than the old, probably just my casting technique or shooting.  I am pretty sure my AV just does not like this pellet.

I will probably mess around with it some more in the P35 but I don't see hope for the Avenger with this pellet.  Fortunately I still have some FX 25.4 grain it really likes.  I haven't tried pellets that are cast with the shorter pins in the P35 nor have I tried going up or down on mold temperature.  I tried all those things with the Avenger and it did not help.  But it might in the P35.  If it does not, I will put my casting stuff away and just shoot purchased pellets - at least as long as I can find them.  Actually, the P35 seems to like slugs at least as well as pellets.  I have some Nielsen on the way to try.

My measurement tools are not terribly precise, a digital dial caliper, but the skirts on the pellets from the new mold are still significantly smaller in diameter than the H&N FTT my P35 likes.  But I am not sure that is the issue.  Earlier I measured the cast versus the FX pellets my Avenger likes and thought the smaller diameter was the issue.  But the Avenger hates the FTT pellets the P35 likes.  The FTT are if anything larger than the FX pellets. My working hypothesis is that my guns do not like these pellets very much.  That's not fundimentally different from the P35 liking FTT more than FX or JSB while the Avenger really likes the JSB/FX and hates the FTT.  Neither like Benjamin pellets much. 

I think it is a quality mold but unfortunately the pellets it makes my guns do not shoot very well.

Are you interested in selling the mold?

[Greg_E]

Jim,

Did you measure the skirts from the new mold to see if they are the same diameter in two places? On mine I get around .257 where the mold parts and .252 90 degrees from that line. If yours throws them at .257 in both directions, I may get in touch and see if I can exchange mine so I can try it.

[Madd Hatter]

Jim,

Did you measure the skirts from the new mold to see if they are the same diameter in two places? On mine I get around .257 where the mold parts and .252 90 degrees from that line. If yours throws them at .257 in both directions, I may get in touch and see if I can exchange mine so I can try it.

Me also. I'd like to be able to shoot them out of my Sumatra like I originally bought it for.

[JimD]

I have not given up on my mold yet but I might.  I want to try to see if I can get the pellets it makes shooting decently from at least one of my guns, most likely the P35.  I have measured pellet skirts in several places and have seen differences but I did not associate the sizes to the part line of the mold.  It is very faint but I will try that.  I don't think I measured a skirt at .257 from either of my molds, however.  I'm seeing more like .252 to .255.  But mainly yesterday I wanted to see if they would shoot.  I am still not convinced the skirt size is the whole and possibly any of the issue.  My P35 shoots some slugs as well as it shoots its favorite pellets and I am pretty sure they are not close to .257. 

I think I had the lead a little cooler for the last batch from my old mold than where I had it yesterday.  So my next test, hopefully today, will be with the pot turned down a little.  The pellets from the new mold were in the same weight range as the "old" one but trended slightly heavier.  I shot mostly the heavy ones yesterday.  If I remember right when I ran the pot cooler they trended down in weight a little.  (I weighed them at 26.2 to 26.8 grains with most from the new mold 26.6-26..

[Greg_E]

.257 is specified in the design, so you may have a problem mold too.

[JimD]

I got my housework done for today and cast 30-40 more pellets at slightly lower pot temperature.  I will give you some skirt measurements but I will also include some data that I think indicates this is not, at best, the total issue some of us are having.  I'm waiting on the temperature to rise a little before shooting the new set.

I only measured a few pellets of the set I cast today but was getting .249-.254 skirt diameter.  I measured 4 from yesterdays batch and two were as wide as .255.  One of those I could see the part line and it measured .255 at the part diameter and also measured .255 90 degrees away from this line.  The other two were as small as .248 and as big as .253.

I measured 4 of the left overs from the old mold and got diameters as small as .250 and as big as .256. 

Within the limitations of my measuring technique and the small sample size I chose to use I do not see a difference between the old and new molds. from the standpoint of skirt diameter.  I do see a difference in weight, however.  My pellets from my old mold only went up to 26.6 grains with the long pins and I got pellets up to 27 grains yesterday and I got 7 that heavy today and 1 I measured at 27.2.  26.6 was my predominant weight both days with the new mold - it was the heaviest I got with the old one.  So they are heavier, a little bit, from the new mold.  It isn't skirts so it is heads?  Haven't measured but may.

The three projectiles I get to shoot into .5 to .25 inch groups at 30 meters with my P35 are H&N FTT, H&N Slug HP in .250 & 34 grain and H&N Slug HP in .249 & 28 grain.  (To be fair, I get bigger groups sometimes too but I think it's my shooting) I measured skirt diameter on 3 FTTs and got from .255 to .261.  Significantly bigger than my cast.  But the lighter slug I measured at .248-.252 (3 slugs multiple places on each) and the heavier one I measured .249 to .253.  The slug diameters overlap my cast pellets a little but they are mostly smaller.  If it is the small skirts of my cast pellets causing them to have indifferent accuracy, why do the slugs shoot nice groups?  Clearly the barrel can engage a projectile of the pellets diameter.  These slugs have a shallow dish in the back but it is not going to get pushed out into the rifling like a pellet skirt.  (I have some NSA 26.8 grain slugs on the way to try)

[JimD]

My latest batch of cast slugs shot about like my first batch.  I had a 9/16 group at 30 meters but I had some over an inch too.  They shoot not quite as good as commercial pellets my P35 doesn't like much.  I'll probably keep the mold as my ultimate "if all else fails" option but keep using commercially made pellets - or possibly slugs.  I may try a few more things with my casting process but the pellets look good.  They just don't shoot very good.  I also have not tried the other pins - that make heavier pellets.  I doubt that will help but I'll never know for sure if I do not try. 

[Madd Hatter]

I found that the NOE cast pellet shot better in my sentry than the h&n barracuda's. I still can't use them in my Sumatra. They won't stay in the magazine due to the skirt being too small.

[Wayne52]

I'll soon be trying the NOE 250-27-RF pellets out in my 2nd gen DAR, I just opened up the box to check to see if it's holding air after installing the part I waited almost a year for it.  I've already got a whole bunch of them cast up already because I initially was planning on using them in my AEA 25 cal semi auto however that gun simply loves the 250-34-RF's.  I think that I've got the DAR regulator set right but I'll still do a ten shot chrony string before I mount a scope on it, the guns been sitting for probably close to a month and I don't really recall exactly how fast it's shooting them.  If it's not over 950fps I'll go ahead and try them because I'd also like to be able to shoot the 34.5 grain magnum hunters from it as well.  It's been soooo long since I've been out in the woods with a DAR it will seem like a treat once again with a very light rifle.

[JimD]

I took the barrel off my P35 today and polished it.  I pushed pellets of it's preferred FTT and a couple of these cast pellets.  The marks on the heads and the skirts of both look about the same to me.  The skirts are definitely engaging the rifling.  I was hoping the group size would go down with the barrel polish but they did not.  But the fact that the skirts obviously are engaging the rifling make me more certain it is not an issue with the size of the pellets the mold casts. 

[EdinGa]

I took the barrel off my P35 today and polished it.  I pushed pellets of it's preferred FTT and a couple of these cast pellets.  The marks on the heads and the skirts of both look about the same to me.  The skirts are definitely engaging the rifling.  I was hoping the group size would go down with the barrel polish but they did not.  But the fact that the skirts obviously are engaging the rifling make me more certain it is not an issue with the size of the pellets the mold casts.

I had given up on mine and had it boxed up to send back until I tried them in my 362 .25 conversion. The barrel came from Alchemy Airwerks and I'm told it probably came from a Crosman break barrel. It's definitely a smaller bore than my Flashpup and it shoots them great. Looks like I'll be hanging onto the mold now.

[Greg_E]

I finally gave this another try... Just not happy, and that's before I measured them. Took great care to try and prevent bending the skirts this time, but the pin alignment keeps changing. Doesn't mater if I close the mold right side up, upside down, or any other direction. I just keep getting pins out of position and skirts with extra fins on them. Using pure lead and this is an aluminum mold, gravity pour so the pressure is pretty low by the time it hits the mold.

Probably going to kick this one down the street and let someone else see if they can make it work. Otherwise what I'm turning out is only good for a Blitz in full auto mode at close range for Youtube destruction.

[Spacebus]

I finally gave this another try... Just not happy, and that's before I measured them. Took great care to try and prevent bending the skirts this time, but the pin alignment keeps changing. Doesn't mater if I close the mold right side up, upside down, or any other direction. I just keep getting pins out of position and skirts with extra fins on them. Using pure lead and this is an aluminum mold, gravity pour so the pressure is pretty low by the time it hits the mold.

Probably going to kick this one down the street and let someone else see if they can make it work. Otherwise what I'm turning out is only good for a Blitz in full auto mode at close range for Youtube destruction.

I get a lot of flash around the edges of my skirts and have to adjust the pins on my NOE pellet molds. It takes some fiddling but I eventually get them settled so that they cast perfect with the pins as low as they go after adjusting the steel tangs. I perform the same alignment on my HP slug molds as well.

I know in the instructions it says to wash the mold with soapy water and a tooth brush, use a bic lighter, etc. Sunday I "seasoned" my .25 Magnum mold like a wood stove and used the mold as it is out of the box with some sprue plate lube. I preheated the mold and conducted progressively longer casting sessions until it was producing good pellets every time.

[Greg_E]

I got some that are really good, but maybe only 50% and that average just isn't worth the time to pick them out and melt then back down. My 88 grain 357 NOE mold isn't much better. If I put the flat pin in this mold I can turn out good stuff, but I didn't buy it for the solid point.

After adjusting the single cavity Lyman mold it is spot on every time and while slow at least I know I don't waste a bunch after it gets warm. I think I need to look at MP molds and see if they have anything available to order. Or just give up and keep buying pellets, I tend to shoot my 357 more often anyway so maybe this isn't a bad choice.

I haven't touched my 25 in a year, need to get it out and do some tuning to get the speed up for 25 grain pellets. Stock it is tuned for some kind of maximum limit and hopefully I can get a lot more out of it. Wanting 25+ grain at over 800fps, just common pellet weights at 800fps or more for a flatter flight.

[triggertreat]

I finally gave this another try... Just not happy, and that's before I measured them. Took great care to try and prevent bending the skirts this time, but the pin alignment keeps changing. Doesn't mater if I close the mold right side up, upside down, or any other direction. I just keep getting pins out of position and skirts with extra fins on them. Using pure lead and this is an aluminum mold, gravity pour so the pressure is pretty low by the time it hits the mold.

Probably going to kick this one down the street and let someone else see if they can make it work. Otherwise what I'm turning out is only good for a Blitz in full auto mode at close range for Youtube destruction.

I have been in your spot before.  They can be frustrating.  You will either give up or get so frustrated that you'll start over and cover all the basis with a fine tooth comb again and try some different techniques until you get them looking perfect.

With the pins what I do is adjust the brackets so the pins are jammed up to their stops and then back off on the brackets just until I can barely spin the pins freely with my finger while it's laying in the slot.  I also make sure the brackets are very centered so there is no resistance fighting and this also allows the two mold halves to close properly, too.  I lock the brackets down tight after this making sure the brackets don't move while doing so.

The other thing I did for the flashing issues was to lower the pot temp down to where I can still cast well but no hotter to reduce flashings from too hot of a lead temp.  Pressure pouring just adds in another negative factor when it comes to flashing issues.  This is why I prefer gravity pouring to eliminate this factor.

Inspect your mold closure and make sure it closes fully and that you keep the alignment pins lubed and in good order.  They can be damaged from lack of lube and being slammed closed.  It also doesn't take but just a sliver of lead to keep the mold from closing fully so inspect it closely for gremlins as you cast.

[Spacebus]

I've been lubing my pins as well, wasn't sure if it was helping, but I figured it can't hurt.

[Greg_E]

I measured about 10 - 15 of the roughly 50 I cast... Still not good. About 3 of them had skirts that were around .255, but most were .250. Head size is down to .249 now. Not sure if it's worth continuing with this mold, but there aren't any others in this weight or lighter, pretty much not really any other makers selling 25 cal pellets.

I'll have to check pin depth one more time to make certain they are retracted far enough to give a complete fill. But also growing tired of failure after failure. Every bullet shape I have just works, even the NOE 357 hollow points with similar pin design works better.

[Spacebus]

I measured about 10 - 15 of the roughly 50 I cast... Still not good. About 3 of them had skirts that were around .255, but most were .250. Head size is down to .249 now. Not sure if it's worth continuing with this mold, but there aren't any others in this weight or lighter, pretty much not really any other makers selling 25 cal pellets.

I'll have to check pin depth one more time to make certain they are retracted far enough to give a complete fill. But also growing tired of failure after failure. Every bullet shape I have just works, even the NOE 357 hollow points with similar pin design works better.

If you ever want to sell that mold, let me know. My .25 cal Bandit is about .249" on the lands, so that mold would be perfect for me. I should measure some of my "magnum" pellets and try them in my Eagle Claw, which is .250" on the lands.

[EdinGa]

Looks like I'll be hanging on to it. My new regulated .25 Stormrider is shooting them well.

[EdinGa]

Well, this has turned out to be my favorite .25 mold. It's accurate, hits hard, and the 4 cavity aluminum mold is a joy to cast with. I think I'm getting close to mastering Wayne's pressure pour technique and it doesn't take long to cast a pile of beautiful pellets.