Rejoining the 20 caliber crowd.

[SteveP-52]

Only thing I've had a chance to do with the 15.89's was run a 10 shot string to give me an idea on fps numbers when they first came out and 19Sheridan57 sent me some to play with. Accuracy, nope..well, nope not yet. I'm almost a year behind with a lot of my guns for more than a few reasons.

YMMV but with mine, Avg 631, ES 15, SD 4, 14.05 fpe. I also, except for the Weihrauch branded .20's which they call FTT's and say weigh 13.4gr, own at least 2 tins of every other .20 pellet being sold and a lot to test although the Daystate offerings are nothing more than rebranded JSB's and so far only at AoA. Most definitely skip the Benji's but you already knew that...lol. Those things only shoot ok in my Silver Streak and even that rifle shoots H&N and JSB better.
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I'm also with airgunbuff on a few points although in my case, I'm rather fond of .20 and he's not...lol. Be all, end all caliber? Nope. Laser? Only if I can hold the rifle on target and do my part and nowadays all my shooting is from a bench for reasons I've chosen not to chat about...lol.

I have guns in 4 calibers and enjoy them all. I also, except for rare occasions, only shoot 30ish yards and .20 fits in there very nicely although I'd guess I can shoot farther any time I want.

[Bayman]

I'm not expecting the 20 caliber to be the be all perfect solution. I love my 177 guns, I just wanted to try something different. I was long considering bumping up the Hw95 to 22 but Weihrauch has a checkered past with the quality of some their 22 barrels. Power wise I think the 95 is marginal for 22, so I'm thinking the 20 is a way to get a bit more downrange energy and hopefully accuracy over my 177. I purposely bought the linkage and rivet so I can easily revert to 177 when it is more practical. It's costing me roughly $200 to try something new. I'm sure if I'm not happy I can get $50 for the barrel again 

[airgunbuff]

I'm not expecting the 20 caliber to be the be all perfect solution. I love my 177 guns, I just wanted to try something different. I was long considering bumping up the Hw95 to 22 but Weihrauch has a checkered past with the quality of some their 22 barrels. Power wise I think the 95 is marginal for 22, so I'm thinking the 20 is a way to get a bit more downrange energy and hopefully accuracy over my 177. I purposely bought the linkage and rivet so I can easily revert to 177 when it is more practical. It's costing me roughly $200 to try something new. I'm sure if I'm not happy I can get $50 for the barrel again 

Trying something new !!  If it makes one happy then go for it.  If it adds to your enjoyment of the hobbie then have a ball.  We are big boys and girls here and its our money to spend how we like.  I have several 22 cal HWs and they all are tackdrivers.  My HW98 inn 22 extreamly so !!  Its funny what sticks in people heads.
Its like when some folks parrot the old FWB 124s being crude junk stuff just because some internet guru said it on the internet.  I have 4 old FWB 124s and there is a reason for that !!  It all comes down to personal experience and likes and dislikes.
For me I personally don't care for Dianas as to me they don't compare to HWs but that is just me.  That said I love the old Diana target rifles.  Each of us shoots what we like and that is as it should be.  Grown boys and girls playing with bb guns !!! LOL  I got that 20 cal laser I am lusting to convert to 22 but I just can't do it cause that is the way the gun came and they did not make many of them so it will remain a 20. Call me fickle !!
kindly
ron

[SteveP-52]

My 95 in .22 is a 15.5 fpe rifle and as accurate as I can shoot it, so out of curiousity, how much power do you think it should have since I've seen you a few times say you feel the power is marginal in the 95? Little oversized? Might well be since the FTT 5.54's fit a bit snugger than the 5.53's and are more accurate, but I've read that same thing from more than a few owners and only a very rare few who say .22 just didn't work for them. Random lame as always and counts for squat opinion is don't be so leery of .22...lol.

AGB...you ever decide to part ways with that Laser, can I call dibs...lol.

[Bayman]

My 95 in .22 is a 15.5 fpe rifle and as accurate as I can shoot it, so out of curiousity, how much power do you think it should have since I've seen you a few times say you feel the power is marginal in the 95? Little oversized? Might well be since the FTT 5.54's fit a bit snugger than the 5.53's and are more accurate, but I've read that same thing from more than a few owners and only a very rare few who say .22 just didn't work for them. Random lame as always and counts for squat opinion is don't be so leery of .22...lol.

AGB...you ever decide to part ways with that Laser, can I call dibs...lol.

Which laser?

[airgunbuff]

My 95 in .22 is a 15.5 fpe rifle and as accurate as I can shoot it, so out of curiousity, how much power do you think it should have since I've seen you a few times say you feel the power is marginal in the 95? Little oversized? Might well be since the FTT 5.54's fit a bit snugger than the 5.53's and are more accurate, but I've read that same thing from more than a few owners and only a very rare few who say .22 just didn't work for them. Random lame as always and counts for squat opinion is don't be so leery of .22...lol.

AGB...you ever decide to part ways with that Laser, can I call dibs...lol.

LOL  Yes Steve if I ever part with it You got first dibs....

[airgunbuff]

My 95 in .22 is a 15.5 fpe rifle and as accurate as I can shoot it, so out of curiousity, how much power do you think it should have since I've seen you a few times say you feel the power is marginal in the 95? Little oversized? Might well be since the FTT 5.54's fit a bit snugger than the 5.53's and are more accurate, but I've read that same thing from more than a few owners and only a very rare few who say .22 just didn't work for them. Random lame as always and counts for squat opinion is don't be so leery of .22...lol.

AGB...you ever decide to part ways with that Laser, can I call dibs...lol.

Which laser?

Beeman Mark2 R-1 laser in Blond Lamanate stock  made between 1995 and 1999
kindly
ron

[Bayman]

About my feelings about the 22 cal Hw95. It's just a personal choice I prefer fast and flat shooting guns. Shooting several guns with very different trajectory make getting good with any of them harder. So my concerns about trajectory far out weighed my concerns about getting a dud barrel. Still there's a few well regarded members here that have had overbored 22 Weihrauch barrels that never printed well. Between that and the slower velocity I opted to try the 20 for my Hw95. My Rx1 in 20 was cool while it lasted but I have to admit it was too cumbersome for my taste and the poor selection of pellets was off-putting.

[Bayman]

My 95 in .22 is a 15.5 fpe rifle and as accurate as I can shoot it, so out of curiousity, how much power do you think it should have since I've seen you a few times say you feel the power is marginal in the 95? Little oversized? Might well be since the FTT 5.54's fit a bit snugger than the 5.53's and are more accurate, but I've read that same thing from more than a few owners and only a very rare few who say .22 just didn't work for them. Random lame as always and counts for squat opinion is don't be so leery of .22...lol.

AGB...you ever decide to part ways with that Laser, can I call dibs...lol.

Which laser?

Beeman Mark2 R-1 laser in Blond Lamanate stock  made between 1995 and 1999
kindly
ron

ohhh AGB. Now I got it.

[SteveP-52]

About my feelings about the 22 cal Hw95. It's just a personal choice I prefer fast and flat shooting guns. Shooting several guns with very different trajectory make getting good with any of them harder. So my concerns about trajectory far out weighed my concerns about getting a dud barrel. Still there's a few well regarded members here that have had overbored 22 Weihrauch barrels that never printed well. Between that and the slower velocity I opted to try the 20 for my Hw95. My Rx1 in 20 was cool while it lasted but I have to admit it was too cumbersome for my taste and the poor selection of pellets was off-putting.

Understandable and something I deal with myself since my springers run the gamut of 7 to 20 fpe in 4 calibers.

My 95 in .22 is a 15.5 fpe rifle and as accurate as I can shoot it, so out of curiousity, how much power do you think it should have since I've seen you a few times say you feel the power is marginal in the 95? Little oversized? Might well be since the FTT 5.54's fit a bit snugger than the 5.53's and are more accurate, but I've read that same thing from more than a few owners and only a very rare few who say .22 just didn't work for them. Random lame as always and counts for squat opinion is don't be so leery of .22...lol.

AGB...you ever decide to part ways with that Laser, can I call dibs...lol.

LOL  Yes Steve if I ever part with it You got first dibs....

Many thanks sir

[Mark 611]

The .20cal is a compromise in certain power plants for efficiency, to give a heavier pellet weight with a flatter trajectory over a .22cal and a bit more punch over a .177cal, I'm not saying either of the other 2 are lesser! the .20cal has an inherent accuracy quality about it, I have accurate .177cal rifles and accurate .22cal rifles, but the .20cal just seems to do it better! if we compare using just a HW50, from experience I find a full power .177cal to violent in the shot cycle and some what hold sensitive, In my experience when you up the bore size just a a tic to a .20 or .22cal things change! and become smoother less violent, which aids in accuracy! easier to shoot all around, you may get more velocity from a .177cal with a lighter pellet but you don't get the knock down power of a heavier pellet! I am a hunter as well as a target shooter, I shoot shots most of the time out to 50yds and beyond at birds and rabbits and other small game, that said my choice for these types of long range shots is a .20cal or a .22cal pellet, from an accurate rifle such as this!!! These shots are very capable due to the smoothness of the shot cycle of the bigger bore DIA, any way just my thoughts and my usage YMMV!!!!

[Bayman]

Uncle!!! I give up! This morning Chambers contacted me and informed me that they had not disassembled the 98 barrel to inspect the condition of the underlying barrel to be "new and unmarked" as implied by them. I canceled the order. Looking like I will have 6 tins JSB 20 caliber Exacts for sale in the near future. Ughhh!

 This has been way too much work and mental anguish. I'll just keep the gun in 177. Maybe I'll just try heavier pellets for long range energy retention and accuracy. I did try the 10.34s and they didn't print well but then again the skirts were damaged. Barracudas? Suggestions?

[SteveP-52]

You've mentioned Mundilar in the past for parts and stocks, any chance they might be able to help?

[airgunbuff]

Uncle!!! I give up! This morning Chambers contacted me and informed me that they had not disassembled the 98 barrel to inspect the condition of the underlying barrel to be "new and unmarked" as implied by them. I canceled the order. Looking like I will have 6 tins JSB 20 caliber Exacts for sale in the near future. Ughhh!

 This has been way too much work and mental anguish. I'll just keep the gun in 177. Maybe I'll just try heavier pellets for long range energy retention and accuracy. I did try the 10.34s and they didn't print well but then again the skirts were damaged. Barracudas? Suggestions?

Sorry to hear about your grief Ron.. That said it could be a blessing is discuise  !!  Just a thought.
kindly
ron

[Bayman]

Uncle!!! I give up! This morning Chambers contacted me and informed me that they had not disassembled the 98 barrel to inspect the condition of the underlying barrel to be "new and unmarked" as implied by them. I canceled the order. Looking like I will have 6 tins JSB 20 caliber Exacts for sale in the near future. Ughhh!

 This has been way too much work and mental anguish. I'll just keep the gun in 177. Maybe I'll just try heavier pellets for long range energy retention and accuracy. I did try the 10.34s and they didn't print well but then again the skirts were damaged. Barracudas? Suggestions?

Sorry to hear about your grief Ron.. That said it could be a blessing is discuise  !!  Just a thought.
kindly
ron

Thinking you're right. As I has no real complaints about my Hw95 in 177. Years ago I whacked a starling at a little over 100 yards. It's very accurate for my standards routinely shoots quarter sized groups at 50 yds. Occasionally dime sized, on one of my "good days" with a good tin and low winds of course. I guess I was caught up in the 20 cal excitement and figured it was worth a try for a couple hundred less than a new Hw50 that everyone's raving about.

[Bayman]

You've mentioned Mundilar in the past for parts and stocks, any chance they might be able to help?

Thanks Steve Mundilar only carries basic consumable Weihrauch parts like seals and springs.

[nced]

The .20cal is a compromise in certain power plants for efficiency, to give a heavier pellet weight with a flatter trajectory over a .22cal and a bit more punch over a .177cal, I'm not saying either of the other 2 are lesser! the .20cal has an inherent accuracy quality about it, I have accurate .177cal rifles and accurate .22cal rifles, but the .20cal just seems to do it better! if we compare using just a HW50, from experience I find a full power .177cal to violent in the shot cycle and some what hold sensitive, In my experience when you up the bore size just a a tic to a .20 or .22cal things change! and become smoother less violent, which aids in accuracy! easier to shoot all around, you may get more velocity from a .177cal with a lighter pellet but you don't get the knock down power of a heavier pellet! I am a hunter as well as a target shooter, I shoot shots most of the time out to 50yds and beyond at birds and rabbits and other small game, that said my choice for these types of long range shots is a .20cal or a .22cal pellet, from an accurate rifle such as this!!! These shots are very capable due to the smoothness of the shot cycle of the bigger bore DIA, any way just my thoughts and my usage YMMV!!!!

"The .20cal is a compromise in certain power plants for efficiency"

Ole "Doc Beeman" claimed that the .20 cal was the "best of both worlds" for the Beeman R1 saying that the .20 R1 shot flatter than the .22 and had more energy than the .177 (my paraphrase). After reading all the "fat pellet mo better" decades ago, plus finding the R1 too heavy and large, I ordered a .20 R9 and personally found the opposite was true. For my R9s the .177 had a considerably flatter trajectory than the .20 yet it wasn't more effective for squirrels. I think the reason for this is that the loopy .20 trajectory past my 30 yard zero distance made it extremely difficult to judge the proper holdover when a "5 yard guestimation error" could be an extra 1" of pellet drop vs the .177. I do think that perhaps the .20 cal for piston guns with large swept volumes like the Beeman R1 is better than squishing all that air down a .177 hole, but the R9 with a 26mm receiver isn't a R1 with a 30mm receiver.

When properly hit (pellet through the vitals) I didn't notice that a .20 pellet killed a squirrel any quicker than the .177 but also found that a "pellet off the mark" wasn't as effective as a .177 that penetrated the vitals. Years ago I read a thread on the "old yeller forum" where it was claimed the a .20 Crow Magnum pellet at a minimum 14fpe would double the supposed kill zone size. At that time I was experimenting with oring sealed piston caps so I bought a tin of .20 CMs, tuned it to shoot CMs at 17fpe, then squirrel hunted with that pellet for a whole week. The result was that as long as the hit was a brain or double lung hit the .20 CM worked perfectly but the max accuracy distance for the CM was about 30 yards with the pellets going their own way after that. Matter of fact, I found that all the hollow point pellets I tried had tha sam characteristic. The down side of that "CM one week test" that my "hit to retrieve ratio" was a paltry 50% whereas my ratio for a simple .177 Crosman Premier dome was 90+%. The .20 CMs that actually killed a squirrel did make a "perty mushroom" like this..........


After a year and half playing with a .20 (& then .22) barreled R9 I didn't notice any difference if "squirrel take down" vs the .177 at my 30 yard zero distance, however past that distance there were a LOT more "off the mark" hits where I didn't guess the correct distance plus or minus a couple yards. I ended up selling both the .20 and .22 barrels reverting back to .177 never looking back!

[airgunbuff]

Thanks for sharing Ed !!  Way back in the day when the R-1 first came out I had great luck with an R-1 in 177 cal with heavy 10 grain pellets.  I forget the pellet.  It was common for me to make kills on treerats out to 75 yards.  My eyes were better then.

But 22 was my go to cal as I learned to shoot at a early age and in my family marksmanship was very important.  I really enjoy your post Ed. Thanks
kindly
ron

[SteveP-52]

You've mentioned Mundilar in the past for parts and stocks, any chance they might be able to help?

Thanks Steve Mundilar only carries basic consumable Weihrauch parts like seals and springs.

Figured I'd take a shot. If you end up deciding to get rid of those JSB's, shoot me a PM...I have 8 rifles in .20 I can use them for
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Ed? Out of curiousity, do you just copy and paste a lot of your posts straight out of Word files? I've seen that same exact post and others, word for word and picture for picture, more times than I can count when it comes to talk about .20 caliber and other topics and figure that's how you pull that trick off...lol.

[nced]

You've mentioned Mundilar in the past for parts and stocks, any chance they might be able to help?

Thanks Steve Mundilar only carries basic consumable Weihrauch parts like seals and springs.

Figured I'd take a shot. If you end up deciding to get rid of those JSB's, shoot me a PM...I have 8 rifles in .20 I can use them for
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Ed? Out of curiousity, do you just copy and paste a lot of your posts straight out of Word files? I've seen that same exact post and others, word for word and picture for picture, more times than I can count when it comes to talk about .20 caliber and other topics and figure that's how you pull that trick off...lol.

LOL....Nope, I don't, matter of fact the only word processing software I have is Libre Office and I seldom use that. As you and others are aware, over a couple decades I've "plagiarized" my own replies   enough to simply go from memory. I also I have a lot of pics uploaded to a photo hosting site which are often used. Hummmm.....took the time and effort to take many pics and upload them so I can use them when appropriate but my forum replies/posts are simply ad-lib.

Please notice that I didn't jump on the "rejoining the .20 cal crowd thread" till the "The .20cal is a compromise in certain power plants for efficiency" comment where I gave examples of agreement my personal experience/opinion.