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Author Topic: LW Poly Barrel Crown  (Read 517 times))

Offline Gear_Junkie

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LW Poly Barrel Crown
« on: April 08, 2021, 01:58:09 AM »
I took a closeup shot of the LW Poly Barrel Crown on a RAW.  It looks like a smooth transition from the bore to the face.  It's not cut like a traditional rifled barrel.  Is this typical for poly barrels?  Just curious...
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Online nervoustrigger

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Re: LW Poly Barrel Crown
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2021, 02:36:47 AM »
Good photograph, that helps a lot.  The face looks pretty nasty...pitted, dinged, or some such defects, which isn't a problem but it does raise an eyebrow.  Surely a RAW wasn't supplied in that shape from the manufacturer.  Has the barrel been banged around?

Of greater concern are the defects that wrap around the corner...those at the 6:00, 6:30, and 8:30 positions.

Having said all that, what matters is how it shoots.  If it's grouping well, there's no reason to mess with it...but I would :)
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Offline KnifeMaker

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Re: LW Poly Barrel Crown
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2021, 04:45:29 AM »
That is a polished in crown. However, poorly done. It is the way I do many of mine, but I pay a little more attention. LOL!  Here you will see factorey crown, mine, and before and after crown polish on the same target board @ 50 yrds with cheap crosman hp pellets.  5-8 mph crossing wind gust.


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Offline Gear_Junkie

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Re: LW Poly Barrel Crown
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2021, 11:50:18 AM »
Thanks for the help guys.  This barrel is from the RAW that Martin built for me, so it's straight from him, and he had to order the barrel straight from LW, since he was out of.177cal barrels. 

One of the reasons I am asking about this is because the rifle shoots good but not great.  I get 1 - 1-1/4" groups at 50 yards, whereas I was expecting closer to 1/2".

Honestly, the crown looks poor to me too.  But I've never had a poly barrel so I wasn't sure what to expect.  I can't reach the crown to touch it up because Martin glues on an endpiece.  I'm going to polish the barrel this weekend in hopes of improving groups.  I'll post an update after I do.

Thanks for the help!
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 11:57:09 AM by Gear_Junkie »
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Offline ranchibi

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Re: LW Poly Barrel Crown
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2021, 01:02:54 PM »
Zack, looks like it was in the process of getting polished and somehow it got lost in the shuffle and was never properly "finished".....
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Offline oldpro

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Re: LW Poly Barrel Crown
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2021, 01:54:06 PM »
Thanks for the help guys.  This barrel is from the RAW that Martin built for me, so it's straight from him, and he had to order the barrel straight from LW, since he was out of.177cal barrels. 

One of the reasons I am asking about this is because the rifle shoots good but not great.  I get 1 - 1-1/4" groups at 50 yards, whereas I was expecting closer to 1/2".

Honestly, the crown looks poor to me too.  But I've never had a poly barrel so I wasn't sure what to expect.  I can't reach the crown to touch it up because Martin glues on an endpiece.  I'm going to polish the barrel this weekend in hopes of improving groups.  I'll post an update after I do.

Thanks for the help!
1-1 1/4 is BAD! especially for a RAW. I agree it looks like a unfinished crown.
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Offline Gear_Junkie

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Re: LW Poly Barrel Crown
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2021, 05:28:35 PM »
Should a crown on a poly barrel be finished the same way as a rifled barrel, with a sharp, angled transition between the bore and the face?
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 05:33:12 PM by Gear_Junkie »
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Offline ssbn617

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Re: LW Poly Barrel Crown
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2021, 05:42:58 PM »
Seems to me if a person is buying a rifle of that price range they should expect a lot more for their money. Is Martin aware of the problem?
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Offline Gear_Junkie

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Re: LW Poly Barrel Crown
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2021, 05:50:10 PM »
Seems to me if a person is buying a rifle of that price range they should expect a lot more for their money. Is Martin aware of the problem?

Martin is aware of the accuracy issues I've been having, but I haven't sent him a picture of the crown.

Update:  I just sent him a picture of the crown and let him know that I am still having issues.  I'll post back how it goes.

Thanks for the help and advice!
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 06:10:47 PM by Gear_Junkie »
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Online nervoustrigger

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Re: LW Poly Barrel Crown
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2021, 06:08:26 PM »
A crisp transition at the bore->crown isnít strictly required, but letís just say you better know what you are doing if you want to develop a soft transition.  The nature of applying a polished radius generally involves the use of a compressible mop or pad, and that introduces the opportunity to create an irregular bell mouthÖthus opportunity for an asymmetric release of gas as the pellet emerges into the world.
 
Having said that, in this particular case Iím less concerned about an irregular bell mouth than I am the pitting and dings that exist right at the transition.  That sort of thing should have been removed with a facing cut or some other means before any crowning operations were performed. 
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Offline Gear_Junkie

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Re: LW Poly Barrel Crown
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2021, 07:15:44 PM »
A crisp transition at the bore->crown isnít strictly required, but letís just say you better know what you are doing if you want to develop a soft transition.  The nature of applying a polished radius generally involves the use of a compressible mop or pad, and that introduces the opportunity to create an irregular bell mouthÖthus opportunity for an asymmetric release of gas as the pellet emerges into the world.
 
Having said that, in this particular case Iím less concerned about an irregular bell mouth than I am the pitting and dings that exist right at the transition.  That sort of thing should have been removed with a facing cut or some other means before any crowning operations were performed.

Yeah, this is a far cry from one of your polished crowns!

Thanks Jason!
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Offline ranchibi

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Re: LW Poly Barrel Crown
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2021, 08:36:05 PM »
Zack, Iím glad you have been and are in contact with Martin as I know he will make it right! A friend had purchased 2 LRTís within a month of each other, one was from the Texas factory but was built in TN, the TN model had a couple of odd issues that like you my friend sent photos....Martin said that didnít make sense and to send it to him and he made it RIGHT.
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Offline Gear_Junkie

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Re: LW Poly Barrel Crown
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2021, 12:41:13 AM »
Zack, Iím glad you have been and are in contact with Martin as I know he will make it right! A friend had purchased 2 LRTís within a month of each other, one was from the Texas factory but was built in TN, the TN model had a couple of odd issues that like you my friend sent photos....Martin said that didnít make sense and to send it to him and he made it RIGHT.

Martin got back to me early today.  He confirmed that the crown is how it's supposed to be.  He said that it was rotary polished to remove the sharp edges.  He also gave me another tip to slow the rifle down just a bit.  I did just what he told me and the rifle is now shooting much better! 

It still begins to lose accuracy right at about 50 shots.  The JB Bore bright arrives tomorrow.  I'm going to hit the bore with some JB Bore paste according to Rsterne's instructions, and then follow up with the Bore Bright using the same method.  I'm hoping this will help. 

I'm planning on pushing the VFG pellets all the way past the crown, since the crown is rounded anyway.  Is there any reason why I shouldn't?

Thanks!
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Offline ranchibi

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Re: LW Poly Barrel Crown
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2021, 12:57:08 AM »
Zack, Iím glad you have been and are in contact with Martin as I know he will make it right! A friend had purchased 2 LRTís within a month of each other, one was from the Texas factory but was built in TN, the TN model had a couple of odd issues that like you my friend sent photos....Martin said that didnít make sense and to send it to him and he made it RIGHT.

Martin got back to me early today.  He confirmed that the crown is how it's supposed to be.  He said that it was rotary polished to remove the sharp edges.  He also gave me another tip to slow the rifle down just a bit.  I did just what he told me and the rifle is now shooting much better! 

It still begins to lose accuracy right at about 50 shots.  The JB Bore bright arrives tomorrow.  I'm going to hit the bore with some JB Bore paste according to Rsterne's instructions, and then follow up with the Bore Bright using the same method.  I'm hoping this will help. 

I'm planning on pushing the VFG pellets all the way past the crown, since the crown is rounded anyway.  Is there any reason why I shouldn't?

Thanks!

When I clean my barrel I use a Patchworm kit and pull the VFG felt buttons through using Ballistol. I had my barrel polished and it doesn't need to be cleaned as often. Seemed to tighten up accuracy a smidge. Martin is the best, he really cares about each and every rifle that has his name on it. Glad accuracy is tightening up! Also, your regulator and barrel are still breaking in.
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Offline crazyhorse1

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Re: LW Poly Barrel Crown
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2021, 01:12:52 AM »
My crown by Tim....MAC 1

https://u.cubeupload.com/crazyhorse4/Sheridan002.jpg

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Online nervoustrigger

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Re: LW Poly Barrel Crown
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2021, 01:13:37 AM »
I'm planning on pushing the VFG pellets all the way past the crown, since the crown is rounded anyway.  Is there any reason why I shouldn't?

If you mean exiting and then pulling it back in, don't do that.  The crown will develop a subtle bell mouth.  All the credible sources I've seen recommend against it, for example:

Smear a tight fitting patch with JB Bore and add a few drops of oil. Starting from the breech end if at all possible run the patch full length once. Do not let the patch leave the muzzle. Set up a stop in front of the muzzle. (I position the barrel almost against the wall by securing it in a rotating vise)
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Offline Franklink

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Re: LW Poly Barrel Crown
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2021, 01:53:50 AM »
Zack, Iím glad you have been and are in contact with Martin as I know he will make it right! A friend had purchased 2 LRTís within a month of each other, one was from the Texas factory but was built in TN, the TN model had a couple of odd issues that like you my friend sent photos....Martin said that didnít make sense and to send it to him and he made it RIGHT.

Martin got back to me early today.  He confirmed that the crown is how it's supposed to be.  He said that it was rotary polished to remove the sharp edges.  He also gave me another tip to slow the rifle down just a bit.  I did just what he told me and the rifle is now shooting much better! 

It still begins to lose accuracy right at about 50 shots.  The JB Bore bright arrives tomorrow.  I'm going to hit the bore with some JB Bore paste according to Rsterne's instructions, and then follow up with the Bore Bright using the same method.  I'm hoping this will help. 

I'm planning on pushing the VFG pellets all the way past the crown, since the crown is rounded anyway.  Is there any reason why I shouldn't?

Thanks!

My most accurate sub 20fpe, .177 (yeah it's my FT gun) has a polygonal LW. Can't say that I know what the crown looks like, but your reports of accuracy going south certainly ring a bell. My gun did the same before I figured out what it likes, granted, mine would shoot well for a couple hundred not just 50shots.

Anyway, I went the JB bore paste route after a few months when I first got the gun, and it helped some, but didn't completely alleviate the degredation of accuracy after x number of rounds. It may have been a cumulative effect of seasoning, and JB, and cleaning, and lubing, but I think the turning point was when  I started cleaning and lubing pellets with Slick 50 One lube. And I actually think I could get away with omitting the cleaning and just lubing them, but I don't want to change anything in the system and lose the confidence that I have in the gun.

Airgun guru friend recommended this to me. His stance is that, generally, wax-like lubes like Pledge are better for cut rifling (12 land and groove LW) and synthetic lubes like Slick 50 One are best for polygonal rifling. It was the lube he suggested so it was the first I tried and it made all the difference so I haven't seen the need to try different lubes.

The gun will go a couple tins now, around then is usually when I decide to clean it so is actually don't know how long it'll go before it loses accuracy. (And my cleaning is pretty atypical. I just wet some qtips with......Slick 50 One and push them from breech to muzzle with coated, one piece rod. Usually they're clean as a whistle after about the 4th one. Gun design allows complete access to rear of barrel so it's nice and easy this way. Yeah, qtips are nearly the perfect size for .177.)

I realize my system for keeping that gun shooting well is less than normal and goes against quite a few "rules" but it has worked well enough to account for a couple perfect scores I'm the past year and a half and I won Open class in the AZ state match last fall.
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Offline Gear_Junkie

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Re: LW Poly Barrel Crown
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2021, 12:26:31 AM »
Thanks again guys!  I won't be pushing the VFG pellets all the way thru.  I was thinking that it might help smooth out the dings in the crown, but I don't want to enlarge the opening and make things worse.  I'll post back the results after the polishing.
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Offline RichH

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Re: LW Poly Barrel Crown
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2021, 10:05:45 AM »
Zack, Iím glad you have been and are in contact with Martin as I know he will make it right! A friend had purchased 2 LRTís within a month of each other, one was from the Texas factory but was built in TN, the TN model had a couple of odd issues that like you my friend sent photos....Martin said that didnít make sense and to send it to him and he made it RIGHT.

Martin got back to me early today. He confirmed that the crown is how it's supposed to be. He said that it was rotary polished to remove the sharp edges.  He also gave me another tip to slow the rifle down just a bit.  I did just what he told me and the rifle is now shooting much better! 

It still begins to lose accuracy right at about 50 shots.  The JB Bore bright arrives tomorrow.  I'm going to hit the bore with some JB Bore paste according to Rsterne's instructions, and then follow up with the Bore Bright using the same method.  I'm hoping this will help. 

I'm planning on pushing the VFG pellets all the way past the crown, since the crown is rounded anyway.  Is there any reason why I shouldn't?

Thanks!

I wonder if he zoomed in on the pics. No expert, but this doesn't look "normal" to me
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Offline Gear_Junkie

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Re: LW Poly Barrel Crown
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2021, 12:22:02 PM »
I'm not sure if he opened the image up fully???  He's pretty concise with words.  It definitely doesn't look like it was cut and polished. 
« Last Edit: April 11, 2021, 12:28:18 PM by Gear_Junkie »
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