Personally debating between RWS 48 and RWS 460 as waiting for friend's answer

[MagnumPI45]

Getting the 460 today means you'll be getting a lower-powered rifle than the trusty and handsome-as-they-come 48:

800 fps / 20 fpe vs. 870 fps / 23.6 fpe @ 22 cal.

https://www.diana-airguns.de/en/products/underlever/detail/diana-460-magnum

https://www.diana-airguns.de/en/products/sidelever/detail/diana-48

The 460 is rated to be more powerful then the 48 or Diana side levers.   They list the 460 at 100fps faster then a 48 or 1000fps vs 900fps for the 48 in 22 cal.  Of course they aren't shooting that fast with common pellets.  I also saw where my 460 was shooting pellets at higher velocity then my dads 54, both brand new, but the difference was more in the 20-50fps range and not 100fps.

[MagnumPI45]

I have experienced a Diana 177 sidelever since the late 80's, a model 52, I have always loved that gun, before my dad got it I had no idea pellet guns could be so beautiful and powerful, wood stock, metal, pellet going through both sides of a thick aluminum trashcan, can make shots beyond 100 yards, etc.  I never really found it too difficult to cock and was always able to manage, recoil did not bother me much, my friend made the mistake when he shot it of putting his head/eye right on the scope when he fired it and it  ;Dbit him and drew blood.

I got a 460 for Christmas, could not pass up when Umarex was clearing stock at $167 shipped, also got my dad a 54 for $240 shipped mainly because I knew there would never be a insane deal like that again either and he was talking about a recoiless Springer and liked the 54 but was not going to pay $550-$800 for one.

I have shot and handled both of them, I like both, 460 is lighter, it is a long, thin gun, easier to shoulder, a little easier to aim but it is a little more difficult to cock and it has a fair bit of recoil.  It is rated to shoot pellets 100fps faster then a 48/54, real world it was shooting them at a higher velocity but it was more between 20-50fps faster depending on pellets, it was shooting crossman 14.3's around 870fps.  With open sites it was very accurate or I could shoot accurately getting some nice groups but I experience a very odd issue where it pushes heavier pellets to the right or left about 1 to 2 inches, I have never experienced anything like that in any kind of gun and I will have to be careful what pellet I choose when further sighting and what will happen if I use a lighter or heavier pellet, I have not shot it enough to try to figure it out more and if it may be how it is being held or resting.  The 460 must not be a very popular gun because there are not that many reviews on it, maybe 1 good one on youtube from a known reviewer and 1 or 2 okay English ones, the few that are left are mainly in another country/different language just shooting it long distances.  I guess for underlevers most go for the better known Air Arms and HK97 range and may prefer their lighter recoil/lower velocities for field target especially in Europe.

Diana 54 is just a beauty along with the 48/52, it is a heavier chunkier gun then the 460, I don't mind weight of guns too much but for many I would understand it is not exactly something you would want to lug around the woods/field all day especially with a scope on it.  The side levers are slightly easier to cock in some ways, the 52 is easier to cock then the 54 because you have to also send the action forward at the end of the stroke.  The 52 recoils less then my 460, sounds a little quieter too, of course the 54 recoils far less then either of them and is a pleasure to shoot, just a mild recoil/bounce when it goes off.  From what I shot it is accurate, got some really nice groups but a few that were worse then my 460 with open sites.  With the 54 you have to be much more careful about scope, needing a Magnum Springer rated scope because of the recoil action punishing the scope but a 48/52 I think is generally a little more milder on scopes then a 460 going by felt recoil.

In all, 460 is lighter, slightly higher velocity, less popular. 

48 is heavier, slightly lower velocity, recoils lighter, probably a little easier to cock once you get used to it, much more common.

Accuracy is similar to the same for both, I find them both attractive, maybe give the nod to the 48/52 but that is probably also due to having a 52 in the family for so long.  I don't think you can go wrong with either.

[Tallbald]

Folks I've really enjoyed all the replies. All offered helpful insight, thoughtful considerations and personal experiences that a prospective buyer in my situation needs to understand so they can make informed decisions. The 460 combo I'll hopefully be picking up Sunday of this weekend from a dear friend will be a welcome addition to my own small group of cherished airguns. The 48 and the 460 both have wonderful attributes. In a manner I'm glad my friend decided to sell me his gun because doing so settled my dilemma choosing one model or the other. Maybe I'll one day be able to try firing a 48 also.
I'll share a photo this weekend when I bring the new beast home too.
My sincere wishes for good things to all here.
Don

[Tater]

Congrats Don. You got a great deal.

[Toxylon]

Getting the 460 today means you'll be getting a lower-powered rifle than the trusty and handsome-as-they-come 48:

800 fps / 20 fpe vs. 870 fps / 23.6 fpe @ 22 cal.

https://www.diana-airguns.de/en/products/underlever/detail/diana-460-magnum

https://www.diana-airguns.de/en/products/sidelever/detail/diana-48

The 460 is rated to be more powerful then the 48 or Diana side levers.   They list the 460 at 100fps faster then a 48 or 1000fps vs 900fps for the 48 in 22 cal. 

Care to drop a cite for your claim? I cited the Diana 2021 online catalogue, if you didn't notice. See for yourself:

Diana 48: 870 fps / 23.6 fpe @ .22 cal

Diana 460 Mag: 800 fps / 20 fpe @ .22 cal

Companies change their products, for various reasons. Traditionally, the 460 Mag has been a bit more powerful than the 48. Today, buying a spanking new Diana air rifle, it doesn't seem to be so anymore. Check out also Diana 54, which today is substantially less powerful than the same-family D48.

[HectorMedina]

Very interesting discussion. And all POV's are good, it's wonderful how we try to help ("Enable"?) other persons to use their money, LOL! JK

Anyway, the point I want to make here is that DIANA guns have NOT changed.
What HAS changed is the information presented.
RWS insisted in presenting information that seemed competitive to GAMO and others, and that is where the MV with light pellets crept into the DIANA catalogs (remember the PBA?), however, DIANA never used alloy pellets, the lightest pellet that would be used for tests and documentation (that is necessary for legal and government purposes) was the "Hobby" lead pellet; it's light and, maybe, uncommon in the US, but far more common in Europe.
As more and more shooters become REALLY acquainted with airguns, we have gone back to the 1980's ways of presenting data that will be MEANINGFUL to the shooter, not some fantasy.
In this case, the 460's MV is taken with heavy pellets, the 48's with mid-weights.
In REAL terms, with 16 grainers, the 460 is a bit more powerful than the 48, żis it worth the extra cocking effort? YES, because with the addition of a heavy top hat, the heavy pellets CAN deliver more out to a 100 yards.

The other note is that the 460 lives on well in the K98 (Spring version) that is somewhat popular in the rest of the world, not so much in the US.

Keep well and shoot straight!





HM

[phoebeisis]

Don

You got a Good deal  and have a  Great Friend.

.For some reason I shoot very well-for me-with the factory open  sights on the 460 .I "Think" it is because the front sight is sorta  wide  but not really sure-

The trigger - for reasons I don't understand - it "feels" almost as good as the Trigger on the TX200 left hand-walnut-I ebay bought with Covid $600.

The TX200 can be set to go off with so little final travel that it startled me-GREAT TRIGGER-still playing with it

But the 460's trigger is really really nice-I set it with"lots" of initial soft take-up then a not too stiff  not much travel release-

Currently I shoot a tiny bit better with the 460(a 22) the TX200 is a .177-(prefer .22-but bargain so..177 ok) the TX200 trigger is a bit better-but I am better with the 460 trigger-

Oh-I had a HW97K- but greatly preferred the 460-

The HW97 trigger was "no better in real life " despite it  "being better"-and the HW97k HAD a slightly clunky "look"

One last thing-the stock on the 460 -cheek piece-works FINE for left handed shooting

I am right handed left eyed-so used to shoot left handed-until me trigger finger became too arthritic-5 years ago-(it has since resolved-TRT-no kidding-surprised me)

but if anyone is a lefty-they can use the 460 no problem


So I have managed to insult

48 owners-a bit weird looking

HW97K owners-saying it is a little clunky looking and it fancy Record trigger works no better than the 460 trigger

TX200 owners(myself included) because the 460 trigger-currently-works as well as the clearly better triggered TX200-and the lines of the 460-slightly more eye pleasing than the TX200

Now no question- the TX200  has a better trigger-but it has a better trigger than any "normally priced" gun-firearm or air

HM-so that K98 is actually a 460 with a Deutchified name and some cosmetics-good to know-thanks!!

You will love it!

[MagnumPI45]

Getting the 460 today means you'll be getting a lower-powered rifle than the trusty and handsome-as-they-come 48:

800 fps / 20 fpe vs. 870 fps / 23.6 fpe @ 22 cal.

https://www.diana-airguns.de/en/products/underlever/detail/diana-460-magnum

https://www.diana-airguns.de/en/products/sidelever/detail/diana-48

The 460 is rated to be more powerful then the 48 or Diana side levers.   They list the 460 at 100fps faster then a 48 or 1000fps vs 900fps for the 48 in 22 cal. 

Care to drop a cite for your claim? I cited the Diana 2021 online catalogue, if you didn't notice. See for yourself:

Diana 48: 870 fps / 23.6 fpe @ .22 cal

Diana 460 Mag: 800 fps / 20 fpe @ .22 cal

Companies change their products, for various reasons. Traditionally, the 460 Mag has been a bit more powerful than the 48. Today, buying a spanking new Diana air rifle, it doesn't seem to be so anymore. Check out also Diana 54, which today is substantially less powerful than the same-family D48.

On Umarex site
https://www.umarexusa.com/rws-model-48-22-combo-4x32-scope-w-mount  Listed a 900fps in 22 cal.

https://www.umarexusa.com/rws-model-460-magnum-22  Listed at 1000fps in 22 cal

Airguns of Arizona
https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/spring-piston/rws-model-48-.22-sidelever/#tab-2  same 900fps in 22 cal
Pyramid Air
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/diana-model-48-sidelever-action-spring-piston-air-rifle?m=403#9487  900fps.
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/diana-rws-460-magnum?m=1204  Listed at 1000fps.
Airgun Depot
https://www.airgundepot.com/diana-rws-460-magnum.html#216-6447 Listed at 1000fps 22 cal.
https://www.airgundepot.com/diana-rws-48-air-rifle.html#RWS2166205  Listed at 900fps 22 cal.

The little Umarex/RWS/Diana catalogue you get with the 460 and 54 have the listed velocities with the 460 being 1000fps, 48 at 900fps.

I shot both 54 and 460 in 22 cal the same day at the same time under chrono, the 460 was at about 860-870fps with Crossman 14.3's while the 54 was around 840-850 with the same Cross 14.3, nowhere near 100fps difference but 460 still a little higher fps.  I do not have a 48 in 22 cal to test.

That is very odd with the new Diana Catalogue, I highly doubt they made changes to the springs/piston to make a 460 slower and 48 quicker.   Maybe they are tuned differently in Germany vs US?

[Tallbald]

Phoebeisis you shared that you use a length of PVC pipe as a cheater bar of sorts to help in cocking the 460. I'm a large man at 6 foot 3+ and 208 pounds BUT I also have suspicion of a torn rotator cuff in my dominant arm, degenerative spinal disease and stuff and have arthritis. I know it's counterintuitive for me to buy a magnum springer but I refuse to surrender (we think that's how I fractured my back last year--ouch I knew I was sore for some reason...). So can you add anything to the cheater bar suggestion? Sounds pretty straightforward and a solution for me as time advances. A neato idea you had there and thanks!
 If the snow in my friend's driveway melts enough here tomorrow that he thinks our pickup can get up his drive, I'll be bringing the 460 home. Pretty darned excited here I must say. Now if only the heavy pellets I have on order will make it through the snow here too, Got mail today first time in one week!
don

[Sfttailrdr46]

Congrats on the D460 I think you will be quite happy with it. Mine is one of my favorites and will probably never hit the classifieds.

[phoebeisis]

Don

Here -I hope-are two pictures-the 460 and the TX200- the cocking effort actually pretty closec-460 claimed is 36-38   TX200 supposed to be  low 30's I think-but pretty similar

I am OLD- 2 weeks short of 70- 170 lbs -5'4" with LOTS of wear and tear arthritis-neck severe DJD -ACL one lt  leg- arthritic hands fingers-spent 5 years wrestling in college-so

my body beat up-

but I also refuse to "give up"  -currectly I can easily enough-but with significant effort-cock either one

But the Cheater bar- 15mm ID- guessing it is 5/8" nominal but more like  19/32   OD 21mm  but nominal  probably 7/8 or 1"  actual 27/32-

It is dead on 18" which was just an accident-but works fine

I put it in 9"-seats on that grey casting that holds the casting lever

In any case- mechanical advantage with the CHEATER is doubled-instead of a more or less 9" lever(actually less measured from where you hold it)   you have DOUBLE the length

crudely measured-the piston moves 3-3.5"  the actual lever is pushed about 24"-that much of a circle-so 7/1 or  8/1so to one mechanical advantage  24/3=8

The cheater DOUBLES IT- where the middle of your hand is travels about 48" against force-

In any case the cheater makes it really easy-I don't need it yet-but it is there when I need it-the cloth tape is actually rim tape-but any tape will do.

[Tallbald]

I see. Say. Thanks to you folks. I do believe the 460 will be a wonderful companion for my range and field trips as I'm capable. And a cheater bar can and will be a regular part of my "kit". Don

[phoebeisis]

Don- the cheater PVC certainly does not have to be 18"-  12"-13"  would work fine-

the 18" was a pure accident-

18" more or less just randomly chosen

The PVC  has 3mm walls-pretty  thick and stiff

When I use it-I just  normally slip 9" on-so it seats on that grey casting that  a secondary link attaches to-but not necessary

just cocked with just 4" slipped over-with my hand maybe 6 up from where it would be on cocking lever-maybe just 60% of original force needed- easy-roughly a 12" cheater

[Tallbald]

My next trip to Home Depot I'll pick up a section of appropriate PVC pipe. As a do-it-myselfer I can always find a use for the leftover. Some may say that having to carry an assistive device is an annoyance, but for me,, assistive devices are a daily norm. And maybe a detune is in my future when needed.
 Wonderful conversation here and so very educational.
Thank you everyone for taking time to share and educate me on so many things. I hope one day I can reciprocate the kindnesses shown me.
DOn