Can the .177 Replace All?

[Nomadic Pirate]

Can your Ford Prius replace your 4x4 truck at the farm ? LOL

[Motorhead]

Can your Ford Prius replace your 4x4 truck at the farm ? LOL

 so true !

And can a Tack hammer drive in a 16 penny nail ?

[7624452]

Bloviating.   

[Rabbit\Squirrel Killer]

Can your IBM 286 be used for video editing?

[Acapulco]

Ummm...No ! I shoot 100 plus yrds.

 And it's a Toyota.

[splitbeing]

Is this a Christmas question reincarnated for the holiday?

[hearty chuckling with twinkling eye in Santa fashion]

.177s for all, and to all a good night!

[Ribbonstone]

Can try if you like...

Does do about 90% of the airguning I do the most of.....it's that pesky 10%.  Someone else may reverse thatand really only need the good qualites of a .177 10% of the time.

[Oldgringo]

Bollocks!  To each his/her own! 

Good night, and good luck.

[Back_Roads]

 If all there was were .177 I could learn to work with it, 4500 PSI can move a heavy .172 slug pretty good from what I have seen.

[fwbsport]

Yes it can.  What about your ideas with the .177 compared to bigger calibers.  Why does anyone need more than a .177?

LOL...."ideas" for some is that a .40 PCP is "needed" to bring down a 3 pound squirrel yet another "idea" for others is that a .177 & .22 is adequate for 150 pound hogs. Remember the Gamo sales pitch from years ago where a .177 pellet gun was used to dispatch a pig?



Anywhoo......for ALL my airgunning (including hunting squirrels) the "skinny pellet" works better than both the .20 and .22 cal pellet with my HW95 power level springers. Out to my 30 yard zero distance it didn't matter if the pellet was .177, .20 or .22, however past this distance the loopier trajectory of the "fatter pellets" made precise pellet placement problematic.

I was realizing more power isn't necessary when a Daystate .177 Huntsman is on the scene.  That rifle is another .177 and I like .20, .25 as well in the HW95 arrangement.

Can I kill a pig with the Daystate?  I'd go in one eye and out the other or in the ear.  But any pellet would require the SAME placement to kill!

I know if I had bought the HW98 .177 sooner I'd have really discovered a WHOLE NEW WORLD in the HW95 machine.  Mine has a screw on attached muzzle weight/break/dampener that can be replaced with a regular HW moderator found on the HW80 K or other.

But the idea of a moderator is to calm the shot into better accuracy and all is calm with the HW98 in ANY caliber. 

Ed,

You may diss the HW98 in place of an R9 or HW95 but if you move away from a rest including forked sticks to offhand the HW98 is WHERE IT'S AT! 

I CAN say the HW98 will replace any rifle in its own caliber.   Taking time with one is easy and getting the pellets (whatever you choose, I chose .177 Sovereign Rangemaster Kaiser 10.33gr) the rifle WILL shoot them better than another rifle without the bells and whistles.

If forked sticks at 40 yards was my only "rest" to use as a modified rest I'd still choose offhand to make the shot. 

[fwbsport]

I don't understand the "flat trajectory" expectation for the caliber .177. 

Caliber doesn't matter it's all about speed and gravity right?   How far can you get during that one second time in which the bullet will drop 5 m?  Doesn't matter if it's .177 or .25 if it goes 1000m during that one second.  Or am I missing something?


I have a .25 that shoots just as fast as my .177. So 7.4 grain .177 pellet going at 1025 FPS will have the same approximate flight path as .25 at that same speed.  But I expect the .25 would perform better at distance because of its higher mass and greater inertia. 

As far as I can figure, .177 should have worse performance at any velocity compared to larger calibers because the .177 will me more susceptible to external forces.


I guess what I interpret this to mean is that for most people it has been easy and cheap to get a fast .177 and not as easy to get a gun that can shoot heavier projectiles at those same velocities.

For me the .20 in D54 or the .177 in HW98 would fill all the gaps in air rifle shooting.

However, I like shooting offhand it is my only time to do something I can do with any rifle handed to me.

If you give me an HW98 in any caliber I will have it sighted in offhand in less time someone with a bench can do.

I like all the pellet rifle calibers until .30 which I hate from experience with an FX BOSS .30 I sold to "the Gipper" a couple years or more ago.

Why not just pump up a .60 caliber PCP with a compressor tank or something if the .177 is too small for you?

[fwbsport]

For me, these one caliber do it all discussions have the same relevance as one gun do it all discussions, which is basically, zip. Just not me at all on either count. These topics make for fun discussions, though, so go for it. It's all in good fun.

Oh, we do have more 177s than any other caliber, because we are strictly target shooters and the bulk of our shooting is 30 yards or less, but we also have 20s and 22s and who knows, I might get an itch to try a 25 at some point. Hey, why not? Bet a 25 could really ring the steel at 30 yards.

I LIKE the Slow .25!

In the HW98 and HW95L.

They hit the same target with the same accuracy at 35 yards.  But beyond, why use extra force for a larger caliber to be spat out the barrel when a nice HW98 .177 is around......
And if the .177 needs more velocity and whack just get a Huntsman from Daystate!

[fwbsport]

I don't understand the "flat trajectory" expectation for the caliber .177. 

Caliber doesn't matter it's all about speed and gravity right?   How far can you get during that one second time in which the bullet will drop 5 m?  Doesn't matter if it's .177 or .25 if it goes 1000m during that one second.  Or am I missing something?


I have a .25 that shoots just as fast as my .177. So 7.4 grain .177 pellet going at 1025 FPS will have the same approximate flight path as .25 at that same speed.  But I expect the .25 would perform better at distance because of its higher mass and greater inertia. 

As far as I can figure, .177 should have worse performance at any velocity compared to larger calibers because the .177 will me more susceptible to external forces.


I guess what I interpret this to mean is that for most people it has been easy and cheap to get a fast .177 and not as easy to get a gun that can shoot heavier projectiles at those same velocities.

The " .177 has a flatter trajectory " is old news from back in the day when the only power plant was springers, nowadays it means nothing since you have PCPs that will shoot any caliber as fast as a .177 can travel.

Some will still bring that argument up once in awhile, but today it's completely worthless

I appreciate Nomadic Pirate because he is my PCP man!

I have seen the same rifle (HW98) shoot .177 10.33gr Kaiser Rangemaster Sovereign pellets to the same point of accuracy as my Daystate Huntsman .177 PCP.  Offhand I'm just as accurate with a PCP as a springer (any springer I still have!).  Someone once said the chronograph and the readings mean nothing (Hector).  I understand now!

A .20 HW98 is about the most efficient machine HW can make for it, and Hector can take some parts held at a time when Diana and Lothar Walther were going partners into the D54 .20 (there were 30 of these; I think more are possibly available and ready for Hector to assemble and accurize).

We are here in a not worthless argument or discussion.  We just report what we do with our things on this site. 

I see you are all PCP'd out and NEED a MEDIUM .177 springer to change your mind.

Get the HW98 .177 and END IT!

You will probably sell off your PCPS.

[fwbsport]

Can your Ford Prius replace your 4x4 truck at the farm ? LOL

Can an HW98 .177 with a Hawke and ZR mounts replace your PCPs?

[fwbsport]

These type or discussions crack me up. Next it will be; "Can a Springer Replace All". 

I believe it can.

But it is my insight after starting with a springer .177 in 1968 and feeling an HW98 .177 or HW95 .177 (yes I still have THAT rifle with OPEN SIGHTS) is the end of it.

I like the Daystate Huntsman to remind me how easy the HW98 .177 is compared to IT.

The PCP is overrated by FAR in this discussion as the "power" that "ends" it.

It's the consistency and accuracy and longevity of the rifle that matters.  PCPs are good for 10 years or less.  Springers last forever.

[fwbsport]

This is what I was thinking- kept seeing those posts and it was making me wonder what was going on.

Mr. P what is going on here keeps coming up and I have to figure a way to replace old archetypes with real facts.

My facts are limited to offhand shooting.

I can tell you I am deadlier with the HS .20 D54 than ANY other rifle made today.  It was made to fit my body and eyes and weight and strength which just happened to fit Hector's own .20 D54 he sent me to shoot and send back to him.

Before I sent it back I asked if I could buy it as it is and he wasn't going to do that because history with that rifle was made by him.

So the next thing was to get exactly what HE had including the 3-10X Traditions Black Powder scope with the "Day of the Jackal" crosswires seen in the movie with Edward Fox (not Bruce Willis--that Jackal movie is NOTHING compared to "The Day of the Jackal" and this sort of essing and effing b is done repeatedly by Hollywood or some person who thinks he's hollywood).

Thing is the machine Hector sent me was a challenge to master.  I hated the sidelever from the beginning feeling it was awkward and unnatural to cock.

But now I know if I had to kill something I'd take the D54 .20 using 16 grain JSB Diablo Heavies.  Whether at 20 yards or 60.

All the other air rifles by HW or Daystate I own fall a bit short of this rifle.

[fwbsport]

Can your Ford Prius replace your 4x4 truck at the farm ? LOL

 so true !

And can a Tack hammer drive in a 16 penny nail ?

I'm surprised at you!
Do you have a D54 .20 Hector Special?

[fwbsport]

And finally to add is my own judgment if the .177 can replace all.

I remember every post from nced.

He was sort of a burr up my arse when I joined the forum but I took him seriously from the start and started working with HW95s in all calibers because of him.

I had thought the R1 or HW80 was the "end of it" but in time I saw I did not need super fast or super powerful but rather consistency in offhand shooting for myself.

Ed Canoles is RIGHT as far as everything I have seen with my own air rifles.

You only need the .177 in the HW95 to get all you would need out of a pellet rifle.

PCPs are for the ones who can't shoot their powder firearms around where they live so they resort to PCP.

I sold a PCP Daystate Huntsman to a soldier before going to his post in Oahu in Light Infantry.
He reported back he was "killing pigs" with it and that was the end of it.

That was an OLD Huntsman with rotary wheel like Savage had for the model 99 in .250.

It was TOO powerful for me at the time in Fort Huachuca as I preferred the Eliminators I had in .20, .22, and .25 (and the .25 is still here and operating with its Weaver V16).

More time went by and more air rifles came on board including the Black Widow from FX in .22.

But the PCP type rifle NEEDS more than just an arm cock (like a break barrel HW) to keep pressurized.  It's too much hassle for me.  I have a brand new Daystate Huntsman Regal XL .177 I shoot weekly by shooting up all the air after reloading again!  It just is not as easy to shoot this thing offhand as an HW98.  The HW95 .177 with open sights is the prize rifle for cheap cost.

The HW98 .177 costs more, but the cost covers the extra time and money you'd use to "sight in" ANY other springer offhand or benched.

They say get a good scope to really know what's happening with your rifle.

I say get a good rifle first and then add a scope that is capable of taking recoil--and in the springer realm no scope is capable of lasting so use the ZR mounts for sure to SAVE your scope!

In the .177 my HW98 and HW95 are the best.

In the .20 I'd have to get one of those 30 Walther/Diana rifles left at the plant and have Hector build it using another Traditions Black Powder Scope in the ZR mounts low.

In fact, I am thinking I won't wait to order another one.  I'll order it now and get it to shoot the LIGHT .20s like his!

But he is a busy man and I respect the time he spends working for others as he does.

When Hector has time I will order another D54 .20 by Diana/Walther. 

Hector, do you have the parts for building another with another Traditions scope?

[Nomadic Pirate]

Newsflash !!!!!

All of you, and I mean everybody that spent money and time collecting these wonderful machines of various calibers, stashing all kinds of pellets and bullets, getting the moulds to make your own ammo,

.....Time to sell everything and buy yourself a Weirach .177 springer, I'll assure you it will cover all your shooting needs better then any other platform or caliber for plinking, target, hunting, long distance shooting.

Please see the light this gun will be superior and  will replace and some everything you have at the moment  LOL 

[GumpIsrael]

I am of the opinion that you can effectively kill anything with anything if you manipulate the situation to your advantage.

A bear with a wooden stick, an elephant with a rock, a Buffalo with a cliff.

A .177 can do the job just fine if you use it right.

That old adage comes to mind, “beware the man with one gun, he knows how to use it.”