Thank you to our advertisers!







Author Topic: 46M available from Pyramid  (Read 8377 times))

Offline buellm2

  • Sharp Shooter
  • ****
  • Posts: 868
  • I remember the Eisenhower administration
  • Real Name: Ernie
46M available from Pyramid
« on: December 16, 2020, 09:15:39 AM »
I've sorta wanted one of these.  https://www.pyramydair.com/product/air-venturi-av-46m-match-air-pistol?m=5257   Now I have to decide what I'll get rid of to keep things semi balanced with the wonderful wife.
  • Southern NH.  Dangerously close to the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts
Daisy model 94    (My first gun, had it since the 1950s)
Daisy Quick Skill   (had it since the 1960s)
Sheridan Blue Streak   (some regret over selling it)
Daisy 1200   (can't wait to get rid of it)
Bullseye Sharpshooters   ( betcha never shot one)
P-17s 
Avanti V-10
IZH 46-M   (My 10M gun,  I shoot it a lot.  I like it a lot)
Daisy 853   (sold, Nothing about it made me smile)
Feinwerkbau 601   (this has forever changed my idea of a good trigger)  I smile every time I shoot it.   I love this gun
HW 30S    (Pretty good trigger, pretty accurate, fun to shoot.  It's a keeper)
Winchester 1100S   (Possibly the worst gun I've ever owned.   Gave it away.)
Crosman 600 and Sheridan E    (CO2 is not my cup of tea)
Daisy and Sears .177 Target BB    (Cool, but I'm glad technology has moved on)
Benjamin 132   (it speaks to me)
Crosman 130   (it doesn't speak to me)

Offline Rick67

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 4839
  • yes
  • Real Name: Richard
Re: 46M available from Pyramid
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2020, 09:44:34 AM »
Nice find, sir!

I was going to buy a 1701P pistol but this might be a better choice 🤔
  • Abq., NM, USA

Offline Frank in Fairfield

  • "Good judgement comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgement."
  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 5909
  • Real Name: Frank
Re: 46M available from Pyramid
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2020, 03:51:05 PM »
My partner in Kansas has an Original Baikal 46M.
He ordered one of the AV46M.
Due Christmas Eve..
But mine looks just as good...
  • Fairfield, CA, USA
AA TX200, .177
Daisy 499B
Baikal IZH46M
Baikal IZH60
Beeman P17
Beeman R1, .177
Benjamin Marauder, Gen I, .177
Benjamin Marauder, Gen I, .25
Benjamin Marauder Pistol
Crosman 2300S
Daisy Model 25, Variant 15
Diana 6M
FWB 601
Sheridan C9a
Weihrauch HW35e, .177

Offline Frank in Fairfield

  • "Good judgement comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgement."
  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 5909
  • Real Name: Frank
Re: 46M available from Pyramid
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2020, 03:55:44 PM »
The new one is a bit different..
  • Fairfield, CA, USA
AA TX200, .177
Daisy 499B
Baikal IZH46M
Baikal IZH60
Beeman P17
Beeman R1, .177
Benjamin Marauder, Gen I, .177
Benjamin Marauder, Gen I, .25
Benjamin Marauder Pistol
Crosman 2300S
Daisy Model 25, Variant 15
Diana 6M
FWB 601
Sheridan C9a
Weihrauch HW35e, .177

Offline 7624452

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 16780
  • R.D.O.T.I.W., USA, DOD, DAV Retired
  • Real Name: Art
Re: 46M available from Pyramid
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2020, 10:07:00 PM »
I noticed it was for sale at Pyramyd, then received email giving 15% off plus free shipping - could'nt resist $90 off + free shipping.   8)
  • Stranded in California
(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

Offline Duckster

  • I'm just a
  • Plinker
  • **
  • Posts: 210
  • Real Name: charlie
Re: 46M available from Pyramid
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2020, 10:48:30 PM »
Let us know if these new ones are as good as the originals.
  • Location: 10M from target. Ohio
My favorite air gun ?

Gamo P-430                               Crossman SNR 357
Beeman P-17                             Crossman CR 357
Umarex Glock 19                       Daisy 426
Umarex UX 357                          Morini 162Ei

Daisy Red Ryder                          Hatsan Edge
Daisy 853                                     Xisico Sentry 705 - 9K
Winchester 1100                         Springfield M1A

Offline Frank in Fairfield

  • "Good judgement comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgement."
  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 5909
  • Real Name: Frank
Re: 46M available from Pyramid
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2020, 09:34:52 AM »
The furniture is being made in Sweden.
Probably by the same company that makes the wood for the FX rifles.
Gaylord is working a shakedown.
I think we can agree the only thing that is important is the barrel.
Probably the same company, IMHO.
  • Fairfield, CA, USA
AA TX200, .177
Daisy 499B
Baikal IZH46M
Baikal IZH60
Beeman P17
Beeman R1, .177
Benjamin Marauder, Gen I, .177
Benjamin Marauder, Gen I, .25
Benjamin Marauder Pistol
Crosman 2300S
Daisy Model 25, Variant 15
Diana 6M
FWB 601
Sheridan C9a
Weihrauch HW35e, .177

Offline hoteltwofive

  • Marksman
  • ***
  • Posts: 319
  • yes
  • Real Name: Gavin
Re: 46M available from Pyramid
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2020, 05:22:53 PM »
Received mine yesterday - beautiful looking gun.  Went to shoot the first shot and the breech seals are bad.  Sent an email to PA to request replacements.  I donít want to ship it back- and certainly donít want to pay $30 for replacement seals on a brand new gun. 

Gun came in a plain cardboard box with no manual and no spare parts.  Included are a couple of front sight posts and rear sight bar (I guess you would call it)- didnít have time to look close enough to see if they are replacements or different sizes, as I was just rummaging through the otherwise empty box looking for an extra part kit. 

The manual is online for anyone looking for one:

https://www.pyramydair.com/air-gunsresources/manuals/AV-46M-owners-manual.pdf
  • USA CT
follow us on instagram- #averagejoeairguns

Offline DonC

  • Marksman
  • ***
  • Posts: 305
  • yes
Re: 46M available from Pyramid
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2020, 05:33:47 PM »
Received mine yesterday - beautiful looking gun.  Went to shoot the first shot and the breech seals are bad.  Sent an email to PA to request replacements.  I donít want to ship it back- and certainly donít want to pay $30 for replacement seals on a brand new gun. 

Gun came in a plain cardboard box with no manual and no spare parts.  Included are a couple of front sight posts and rear sight bar (I guess you would call it)- didnít have time to look close enough to see if they are replacements or different sizes, as I was just rummaging through the otherwise empty box looking for an extra part kit. 

The manual is online for anyone looking for one:

https://www.pyramydair.com/air-guns


Very sorry for your hassles. I have suffered same many times. Just my opinion, I suggest refund and save a little more fora Garman pistol. I had a 46M for a while but is was sooo like a "Utility" pistol. It was accurate and nice trigger BUT I paid $200.00 used market. $600.00 is way to much for this type of kit.







resources/manuals/AV-46M-owners-manual.pdf

  • Illinois,Darien

Online subscriber

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 5649
  • yes
Re: 46M available from Pyramid
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2020, 08:30:09 PM »
Gun came in a plain cardboard box with no manual and no spare parts.  Included are a couple of front sight posts and rear sight bar (I guess you would call it)- didnít have time to look close enough to see if they are replacements or different sizes, as I was just rummaging through the otherwise empty box looking for an extra part kit. 

Gavin,

Did you look under the carboard flap?  If this box is like the Russian Baikal box, there is a partition that makes the rectangular box more triangular.  Under that, there was the sight inserts you describe, plus a full set of replacement seals, and a cleaning rod.  With the manual over the top of the pistol.

If it is not too much trouble, could you post pictures showing the muzzle crown and breech end of the barrel?  hey seem different to the Baikal pistol.
  • USA

Online subscriber

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 5649
  • yes
Re: 46M available from Pyramid
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2020, 08:53:37 PM »
Another thought; is it possible that you did not fully latch the breech as shown in image E in the manual, here:  https://www.pyramydair.com/air-gunsresources/manuals/AV-46M-owners-manual.pdf

You have to push down deliberately to fully latch the breech on my Baikal version  of this pistol.  It is possible to almost latch it, but without full engagement of the latch - if you don't push far/hard enough.

If you fire the pistol after lowering the breech, but not latching (the storage condition - except for being cocked), then the breech seals have a way of blowing out...
« Last Edit: December 20, 2020, 09:46:39 PM by subscriber »
  • USA

Offline hoteltwofive

  • Marksman
  • ***
  • Posts: 319
  • yes
  • Real Name: Gavin
Re: 46M available from Pyramid
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2020, 10:01:43 PM »
The box has no extra parts- took it completely apart, just in case it was hiding a secret compartment.  I did get a PM from Frank, after also researching on the forum, about the seals and correct positioning.  I did have them incorrectly seated when I tried to put them back in. 

Unfortunately itís still a no go for me thus far.  It is now down to pellets Iím using - as Iím a lead free basement shooter- using lead free GTOís (6.79 grain I believe they are), or seals.  The gun does seem to dry fire, but it doesnít seem to be producing much power.  Much less than I expected, even rated for shooting 480 FPS according to the product listing. 

I will try to get some pictures of the barrel- I have had poor luck posting pictures recently, so I could email them to you if I take a few? 

I made sure to have the correct loading procedure for the gun before Iíve shot it.  The red dot on top, as best I can tell, is to show you that the gun is loaded- a loaded chamber indicator- as the dot is exposed when you press down the breech all the way, as shown in the manual. When not fully pressed down, you canít see the dot. 

I will have to get a different type of lead free pellet to use- hopefully something will work.  I also have to try some additional tips that Frank also PMíd me.  Wish me luck!
  • USA CT
follow us on instagram- #averagejoeairguns

Offline Frank in Fairfield

  • "Good judgement comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgement."
  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 5909
  • Real Name: Frank
Re: 46M available from Pyramid
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2020, 10:33:26 PM »
Another thing I do with my IZZY??
Just like we were told to do with Sheridan pumpers, I leave air in the chamber when stored.
I fully cock the gun and return the lever to battery.
Then without loading, I lower the bolt and leave it unlatched to protect the breech seals.
When ready to shoot again, I close the bolt and dry fire the pistol.
I suppose you could raise the bolt and insert a pellet and fire it but I have never done that.
The sound of the pistol firing without the pellet tells me it is fully charged.
I know the manual doesnít state to leave air in the pistol but I think seals last longer when the pistol (or rifle) is pressurized.
  • Fairfield, CA, USA
AA TX200, .177
Daisy 499B
Baikal IZH46M
Baikal IZH60
Beeman P17
Beeman R1, .177
Benjamin Marauder, Gen I, .177
Benjamin Marauder, Gen I, .25
Benjamin Marauder Pistol
Crosman 2300S
Daisy Model 25, Variant 15
Diana 6M
FWB 601
Sheridan C9a
Weihrauch HW35e, .177

Online subscriber

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 5649
  • yes
Re: 46M available from Pyramid
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2020, 10:38:34 PM »
Gavin,

This should not be required, but if it were my pistol, I would add to two four drops of oil to the compression pistol seal.  Shown in the online manual.  (First see my comment about over oiling reducing pellet velocity below)  I use straight mineral oil in mine.  Crosman Benjamin pneumatic pistol manuals suggest straight detergent free 30 weight motor oil.   My Baikal manual states to use non-solvent "gun oil".

I mention this oil recommendation for those who are reflexive about oil combustion in PCP reservoirs - a valid caution, in that case.  With a single stroke pneumatics, the compression is not fast enough to diesel the oil.  The pressure is not very high; and the volume of compressed air is a tiny fraction of any PCP air tank.

The manuals do warn not to use solvents; and by inference that would mean don't use CLP.  Spray lubes and cleaners containing ether would be much easier to light...

The other thing to do is to lay two sheets of TP over the breech when you shoot with a pellet.  If there is a leak, the paper should move.  Shooting without a pellet won't stress the breech seal  enough to show a leak - unless it is outrageous.

If the assumption is that the breech leaks because the power is low, that may not be the reason.  Despite being light, the tin alloy pellets may simply be too tight for your barrel.

If I had your pistol in hand, I would be able to tell if the cocking force was low, indicating a pistol seal leak (perhaps because it is dry), or a very conservatively set compression ratio - adjustable on this pistol.  See how its done here: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=153027.msg155687779#msg155687779

How to change piston seal (same preliminary steps required to set the compression):  https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=153388.0

It may be possible that the valve leaks.  Other than low power, that would show as power reducing significantly, if you wait a minute after cocking.  If that is your suspicion, I would dry fire the pistols 50 times in a row.  After applying at least two drops of oil to the piston seal:  With the pistol flipped upside down, fully open the cocking lever to draw the piston all the way forwards.  Drop oil right on the seal lip that should be visible at the end of the slot.

If you overdo the oiling, the gun will continue to "sneeze" oil for many shots - perhaps 50.   During that time the velocity will actually be low due to the extra drag of the pellet wiping oil out of the bore.  So, that is another thing you can check:  Dry fire the pistol with the muzzle 1/2" from some brown cardboard.  If it leaves more than the faintest oil drops, then your pistol may be over oiled.  In that case, stand the pistols muzzle up for a few hours.  Then  dry fire it 25 times, muzzle up, some place you don't mind oil spray landing...

My 46M shoots 7.3 grain H&N Excite wadcutters at 500 FPS.  This, after I increased the compression ratio, because it seemed under powered.  This does increase the peak cocking force. However, the nature of the cocking mechanism is such that it is very gentle, and does not hurt one's hand, like the P17 tends to do.  I do not have tin alloy pellets to try.

Will PM you my email address for pics, in case you struggle with attaching them by using the Attachments and other options function, directly below and to the left of the reply posting window.

« Last Edit: December 20, 2020, 11:33:59 PM by subscriber »
  • USA

Offline hoteltwofive

  • Marksman
  • ***
  • Posts: 319
  • yes
  • Real Name: Gavin
Re: 46M available from Pyramid
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2020, 12:20:34 AM »
Thank you for the additional feedback and recommendations.

So the latest update...I made up a quick trap to shoot lead into, in my garage.  Tried no less than 5 different types of lead pellets with different grain weights.  Out of at least 45 attempts to shoot, I had 1 single pellet fire. 

There is a decent amount of air coming out of the barrel when I dry fire it, which is encouraging.

So my guess continues to go back to my first thought of the bad breech seals.  The tp test as recommended appears to blow the paper slightly.  However my eyes are getting tired, so I will re-attempt this hopefully tomorrow.  (I also want to make sure I can spare a square lol).

I was able to find in my stash some other lead free pellets that seemed to go into the breech a bit easier - these were some flat nosed Daisy pellets - uncertain gain weight as itís not on the tin and currently getting too late to search for the exact ones on the interwebs.  All of the lead pellets I tried were all were fairly snug like the GTOís I first tried. 

I really want this gun to work.  I love the design, and have always wanted the original version.  Hoping for a simple fix with the seal replacement and not some other gremlin plaguing the pistol. 

However, at the price point, this gun should be ready to run out of the box and also include some spare parts.  For that, I am disappointed and frustrated.  Hopefully everyone who has ordered one will not have issues.  For potential buyers, it is up to you to roll the dice, like any other Airgun that we buy. 

  • USA CT
follow us on instagram- #averagejoeairguns

Online subscriber

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 5649
  • yes
Re: 46M available from Pyramid
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2020, 12:29:51 AM »
Gavin,

If one lead pellet fired, does it mean the others were stuck in the breech?  Something is very wrong.

For that much money, this is something that PA would want fixed; else they have just killed a large percentage potential sales.

I suggest they take another pistol out of the box; verify it works right; ship it to you - before yours has even arrived back at the shop.  They can email you a pick-up label to return yours; but if they don't fix this fast, you might lose interest - along with a bunch of other people.
  • USA

Online subscriber

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 5649
  • yes
Re: 46M available from Pyramid
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2020, 01:12:58 AM »
Gavin emailed me a selection of images.  With his permission, I have attached the clearest ones, below.  I cropped the images to show just the interesting aspects, and added notations to some.

A very quick observation is that the breech cone has chatter marks all the way around it, that correspond with each land, in angular width.  I can see how those facets could allow air to leak past the skirt of a seated pellet, and mimic a poor breech seal.

I suggested that Gavin try deep seating some of the lead pellets that would not shoot at all.  By deep, I mean, with the skirt just flush with the inside diameter of the cone.

The breech cone may also have burrs at the ID; although what I am seeing may be lead flakes.  Look at the edges of the lands I indicated with arrows in particular - click on the images to enlarge them.  If the breech is wavy and constricted, both those conditions would reduce power and result in poor accuracy.

The breech seals look OK.  They should seal as intended against the rear face of the barrel and the receiver top (assuming the barrel face is perpendicular).  Of course, the degree of compression against the barrel face and at the transfer port can't be judged by these images.

The muzzle crown is what one might call, unusual.

For reference, directly below are the breech and muzzle of my Baikal made MP-46M, out of the box.  There are lots of fine circular machine marks, but the rifling is crisp and burr-free:







Click on the attached images below to view enlarged pictures of Gavin's pistol:






« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 01:26:57 AM by subscriber »
  • USA

Offline Frank in Fairfield

  • "Good judgement comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgement."
  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 5909
  • Real Name: Frank
Re: 46M available from Pyramid
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2020, 09:25:57 AM »
Besides the pistol and the manual, the box should include a set of extra seals, another rear sight blade, cleaning rod and screwdriver...This bad-boy should be on itís way back to Ohio and I mean right now!
  • Fairfield, CA, USA
AA TX200, .177
Daisy 499B
Baikal IZH46M
Baikal IZH60
Beeman P17
Beeman R1, .177
Benjamin Marauder, Gen I, .177
Benjamin Marauder, Gen I, .25
Benjamin Marauder Pistol
Crosman 2300S
Daisy Model 25, Variant 15
Diana 6M
FWB 601
Sheridan C9a
Weihrauch HW35e, .177

Offline hoteltwofive

  • Marksman
  • ***
  • Posts: 319
  • yes
  • Real Name: Gavin
Re: 46M available from Pyramid
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2020, 09:45:18 AM »
I sent another email to PA this morning to request a shipping label for return and also requesting a replacement.  And that it be tested prior to shipping.  If the next one is a dud, I will be looking elsewhere to spend my $. 

Itís going back in the box until then. 
  • USA CT
follow us on instagram- #averagejoeairguns

Offline Rick67

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 4839
  • yes
  • Real Name: Richard
Re: 46M available from Pyramid
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2020, 10:48:50 AM »
What a disappointment!

I was quite ready to get this pistol  :(

HW5 sir, I hope you get a good replacement!

I would go for a refund though if it were me.
  • Abq., NM, USA