Need help :)

[z28rod]

Benjamin 397 & Air Rifle Scope Combo $259.97

https://www.pyramydair.com/product/benjamin-397-air-rifle-scope-combo?m=1430

[Bullit]

Greetings Leila, and Welcome to the GTA!

I have read everyones threads and your's most specifically.  I understand you will be shooting at less than 25 yards (75 feet), at small birds. And U have neighbors. You want accuracy, which I think you are smart to put THAT first.
You don't need a lot of power for your needs.  A lower powered airgun will be enough, and will be more comfortable for you to practice with too.  And that'll make you want to use it more.  You will get accurate only with practice, of course.
Illinois Law has airgun power restrictions too.  So you may wanna look at 700fps or less in .177 calibre only.  No .22 calibre.  Just to stay away from legal questions. Birds only weighs ounces, and anything over 2lbs of energy (FPE), will handle them.

I didn't see it mentioned (forgive if I'm wrong), but there is a one cock pneumatic that is easy to shoot, very quiet,  and lower power, and will be as accurate as you, with practice.  Again, whatever you buy, you have to put the time into getting to know it.  Check out the Daisy 953 and a good quality dome pellet combination.  The Daisy 953 is target quality accuracy,most importantly.  500fps is more than powerful enough for your bird, or bust a squirrel occasionally, backyard shooting. At $72.00, it won't break the bank.  There are many owners here at GTA who can help you with their thoughts on the 953.    Here is a Link:
RIFLE - https://www.pyramydair.com/product/daisy-powerline-953-targetpro?m=585
PELLET  Any dome that is in the 7.9g weight or a little less.  You can get these at Wmart as well, but I added the link so you could see them. Just a starting point.  As you shoot it more, you may wanna try different pellets, that's a part of the fun!
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/crosman-premier-177-cal-7-9-grains-hollowpoint-500ct?p=318
Sorry this got long...Welcome, and enjoy winter practicing for spring hunting!

[althawk]

I had considered mentioning the daisy 953 due to its accuracy.
To me it seems a lil on the low side for fpe. (but the accuracy...can't be ignored)

I have yet to buy a 953, but its definitely on my short list to get.
Its a single pump and therefore not a springer (not hold sensitive). Also supposed to be fairly quiet.

Similiar in function (but not design) to my single pump beeman p17 pistols (~2.6fpe , 389 fps) and at 10m i could probably hit a starling somewhere on the head/neck consistantly (8/10 times) with it if i take my time to aim properly, and the starling's head stays in position for more than 3 sec. A scoped 953 would increase my chances significantly at hitting that starling head at 10m-20m, its gonna be a bit more fpe than the pistol (~3.6 fpe based on 7.9gr 453 fps). So your right it should be considered.
However,
Reading the purple martin forums, several people were having trouble with 6fpe (5x pumps on a 2100), whereas there were very few having trouble at 8 fpe (8+ pumps on a 2100) when it came to starlings. Seems like 6fpe and less was working just fine on the other winged pest euro house sparrows just not so much on the starlings. Maybe its an issue with accuracy, pellets over penetrating (or not expanding on impact), extreme distance shots, or starlings are super resilient i don't know. They were having to double tap, when they wanted only 1 or having zombie fly offs at around 6fpe on starlings. Plus they didn't like how much louder it sounded when they pumped it up 8x. Some complained that was too loud, others didn't think it was loud *shrug*.

Crosman 2100 (airmaster77)
[pumps = about this much fpe generally]
1     1   fpe        
2     2.43            << Beeman p17
3     3.6              << Daisy 953
4     4.75                  ----5.5+ fpe 392/397/streak, stock, 3x pumps.
5     5.7    *quiet* << Crosman 1377, stock, 10x pumps,*loud*.            
6     6.6                    
7     7.25             << Daisy 880, 10x pumps (more like 7.7fpe)
8     8       *loud*  << Beeman r7 & 392/397/streak, 5x pumps. *quiet*
9     8.5
10 = 8.9 fpe --------------*LOUD*-----------------------          
      
       11 fpe          << 397, stock, 8x pumps. *LOUD*
       12 fpe           << streaks, stock, 8x pumps. *LOUD*
       13 fpe           << 392, stock, 8x pumps. *LOUD*

       15 fpe           << Beeman RS2 *loud*

      
       20 fpe           << steroided 392, mod-steroid,  14x pumps.
                               + Crosman Titan NP

Purple martin forum people suggest starting at 3x pumps (near 6fpe) on 392/397/streaks, moving to 5x pumps (8fpe) and very rarely going to the full 8x pumps.      
On crosman 2100 they suggest starting at 5x pumps (near 6fpe), then moving to 8x pumps (8fpe). As you can see there isn't much reason to pump 9x or 10x times. only 10% more power, louder, and 2 more pumps, which are harder to pump then the previous 8x pumps.

Beeman R7 and 2100(airmaster77)) will get the job done. Benjamin/sheridans will get it done, with power to spare.
the R7 is REALLY quiet for a springer, soda can opening quiet at least according to this: http://www.straightshooters.com/documents/decibelrating.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kymike is right, pellets and finding the right pellet for your air rifle is the next hurdle.

Which reminds me: domed, pointed hollowpoints, and at close range wadcutters. Pointed pellets will most likely over penetrate on a starling. Domed (and wadcutters at close range) will really deliver a shock, basically make it really hard for them to fly away.

Domed:
RWS superdomes: http://www.walmart.com/ip/RWS-Superdome-.177-Pellets-Field-Line/17133143
Beeman FTS-Field Target Specials (aka H&N FTT): http://www.straightshooters.com/beeman/bpfts.html

Pointed Hollowpoints:
Predator Polymag: https://www.pyramydair.com/product/predator-polymag-177-cal-8-0-grains-pointed-200ct?p=352
Crosman Destroyer (Destroyer EX @walmart): https://www.pyramydair.com/product/crosman-destroyer-177-cal-7-9-grains-pointed-250ct?p=532

Destroyer EX's and the crosman premier hollowpoints are both cheap, worth looking at first since you should be able to get them at walmart. The german made RWS, H&N beemans are pretty much better quality, slightly more expensive. Polymags are hunting pellets and priced high, probably to high.

[Bullit]

I was referring to the FPE at 25 yards, not the muzzle.  I say that at 25yards the Daisy 953 should still have well over 2lbs energy with a quality 7.4 - 7.9g domed pellet.  I like to look at FPE numbers at different ranges, rather than straight from the muzzle.  The crosman pellet is just a starter pellet, and is cheap to practice with.

[Bullit]

Althawk, you need to go and get yourself a 953. You'll like it.  The basic stats just don't do it full justice.  I wonder about what the folks you speak about, are using for starlings.  They are easy to take with a body shot.  No difference to me.

[leila]

Greetings Leila, and Welcome to the GTA!

....Illinois Law has airgun power restrictions too.  So you may wanna look at 700fps or less in .177 calibre only.  No .22 calibre.  Just to stay away from legal questions...  Check out the Daisy 953 and a good quality dome pellet combination.

Thank you!!! Oh that Illinois and all its silly regulations , thank you for that tip btw! I'll check out Daisy as well!

[Bullit]

Yeah, it's a dumb thing, but it is what it is.
Leila, I didn't mention that the Daisy 953, also has a 5 shot clip so that you can use it as a 5 shot repeater!  You can buy more clips, and they are dirt cheap (because they're pretty simple little things).  Naturally, it can also be used as a single shot, if you want to.
Just cock, index and shoot again! Very handy for them pesty ones.
Also, you may wanna check out the "JSB Exact" pellets for it.
Glad you Enjoyed!  Mike

Link to Daisy 5 shot Magazine (5 for $5.00):
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/daisy-magazines-for-daisy-match-grade-avanti-853c-and-953?a=337

Link to JSB Diabolo Exact Pellets:
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/jsb-match-diabolo-exact-177-cal-8-4-grains-domed-500ct-4-52mm?p=261

Edit:  If you order from Pyramid Air and your total order is $100.00+ ; S/H is free.   Also, when you order pellets, if you order 3 tins, (mix or match),  you also get 1 additional tin (1 of the lowest priced in your order), for free.  I figured I'd throw that in, as you may not know about it.  It's a good deal.

[leila]

Hey guess what everyone I already got Crosman 1377! This morning I was on my way to the office and I saw a garage sale, so I stopped and this guy was selling all these different guns, mostly they were paint guns (I wouldn't know but he told me... lol), so I about to leave but then I saw pistol type of looking gun that he wanted $10, so I bought it. I guess now I have an after shot covered. I'll try it out probably on Sunday!

Then on line I found "100 shot benjamin bb air rifle" for $50, ad says that it's probably 45 years old. I don't know much about it, but I think it be would fun to just have it.




And Beeman rs2 for $75 no pic though...

[RedFeather]

I've skimmed this thread and one thing really stands out.  You live in very close proximity to your nieghbors, especially those in the line of fire.  As unpopular as this will sound, I would NOT recommend trying to shoot pest birds at any angle other than where a sufficiently large backstop will intercept the pellets.  You MUST stop the pellets from crossing into your neighbors' yards, be they clear misses or, in the case of birds, pass-throughs.  Hit someone or a house and you can find yourself in court.  Then who will feed the birds?  

They recently passed a state law in Virginia which over-rides local laws prohibiting shooting air guns on your own property.  BUT, so far as I know, the local ordinances against hitting someone's house (and in my county that's a firearms felony!) still carry weight, since the law states you must have a reasonable backstop.

If you feel that you must shoot the predatory birds, please use a ground-based backstop, preferably a good sized lean-to that will redirect pellets into the ground.  Especially shooting anything that's over 600 fps.

OK, guys, you can flame me now, but it's better safe than sorry in the back of a cruiser.  Think I'm too wary?  Go check out the thread on the Back Room where a fellow wound up exactly in this predicament.

[leila]

This is my martin housing set up, would be able to do something to make it safer?

[althawk]

Just got a Daisy 850... seems like the 1982-84 version of the 953, w/o the muzzleweight(brake).
Supposed to get 480 fps on par with the 953, think its safe to assume same (or very similiar) power-plant as 953?
Only thing I'm worried about is it had like 30x copper bbs and 6 steel bbs, still in its bb magazine.
Checked out the rifling as best I could, it does not seem to be worn using the ol'eyeball test.
Took the stock off already to clean, and the biggest surprise for me was that the plasticy seeming receiver was actually metal.
Might scope it later.
Cleaned it up, oiled the piston, going to give it a whirl sometime this week. Very nice build quality. The stock's a plastic joke, but the assembly is well thought out.

Also picked up an old, new looking 2100 for $20.  Gonna have to give that one an inspection, cleaning and also test it out.
 
The prize accusation, a pre-1975 crosman mk II.

Now i just need time to figure out what i've got and after that I'll be able to go after a nice silver streak and maybe be satisfied then (til I catch PCP fever?).

[althawk]

Leila,
The 1377 for $10 is nice.  even if its not functional, you got a great deal there.
The benji is nice. This is the point where I should tell you that you've caught air gun fever. BB guns are usually not too accurate.
The rs2 for $75. Theres the risk the owner has dry-fired it a few times, a big no-no on springers.  Usually people selling on an airgun classified will know better than to dry-fire. Plus i thought you'd decided against a rs2 series due to loudness.

Also, maybe i'm missing something here, but I think for the most part people on this forum have steered you: away from shooting upward,  being aware of whats behind your target (and potentially could be hit), the importance of having a backstop (be it ground, pellet trap), and in general better safety for both you and your neighbors.

At least you're on the right track. Oh by the way on the subject of safety... safety glasses. Get a pair $4-15. Even pellets can ricochote (bounce back, boomerang).  Had one land at my feet somehow one time (think it hit a pellet already in the pellet trap, got deflected at an angle and arced towards me), i was glad i was wearing glasses and a lil spooked.

[lizzie]

Hey guess what everyone I already got Crosman 1377! This morning I was on my way to the office and I saw a garage sale, so I stopped and this guy was selling all these different guns, mostly they were paint guns (I wouldn't know but he told me... lol), so I about to leave but then I saw pistol type of looking gun that he wanted $10, so I bought it. I guess now I have an after shot covered. I'll try it out probably on Sunday!

Then on line I found "100 shot benjamin bb air rifle" for $50, ad says that it's probably 45 years old. I don't know much about it, but I think it be would fun to just have it.

...

gracious- leila's caught the bug!
Just kidding you- welcome to the club.

[Cliffhanger]

Now look what you did, Lizzie.   


Leila, welcome to the GTA.  I just want to add that you can legally have any speed .177 cal in IL, (yes, over 700fps is fine) just not a .22 without a FOID card here in IL. Easy enough to get, just 12 bucks and 30 days time to process.  It sounds like you're leaning towards the lower power rifles, and I see Lizzie and others have steered you in the right direction.  Nice find with that 1377, and the Benjamin looks great!   

We'll be looking forward to your posts on how well it goes, and these guys and gals are a wealth of information here, as you know by now.   


Stephen

[althawk]

An older coleman crosman 2100.
Pumping it is alot like my sheridan, and seems heftier (heavier) then the airmaster77's i've shot.
Giving it some pellgunoil overnight to see if it'll shoot or need a reseal. Design hasn't changed significantly in ~30 years, thought the materials used has.

[MustangMike]

Used to own a old 397 .22 pump and that darn thing was a tack driver and had some good power at 6 pumps.. kind of miss it heck I even miss my ruger air hawk I had before my bigcat

[leila]

Yeah, it's a dumb thing, but it is what it is.
Leila, I didn't mention that the Daisy 953, also has a 5 shot clip so that you can use it as a 5 shot repeater!  You can buy more clips, and they are dirt cheap (because they're pretty simple little things).  Naturally, it can also be used as a single shot, if you want to.
Just cock, index and shoot again! Very handy for them pesty ones.

I really like that idea, not having to reload! And maybe by the fifth time I'll be able to hit the target too.

[leila]

Leila,
The 1377 for $10 is nice.  even if its not functional, you got a great deal there.
The benji is nice. This is the point where I should tell you that you've caught air gun fever. BB guns are usually not too accurate.
The rs2 for $75. Theres the risk the owner has dry-fired it a few times, a big no-no on springers.  Usually people selling on an airgun classified will know better than to dry-fire. Plus i thought you'd decided against a rs2 series due to loudness...


At least you're on the right track. Oh by the way on the subject of safety... safety glasses. Get a pair $4-15. Even pellets can ricochote (bounce back, boomerang).  Had one land at my feet somehow one time (think it hit a pellet already in the pellet trap, got deflected at an angle and arced towards me), i was glad i was wearing glasses and a lil spooked.

Thank you! And I am going to get safety glasses today! I already had a pellet bounce back at me while I was trying my crosman in the basement. My basement is not finished, so put a cardboard box in front of cement wall and tried to see if I could hit the black and orange sticker targets. I was hitting every where but the target for a while and one must have hit above the cardboard because it came back right at me, it sure scared me. So then I decided to hang a blanket onto my pull up bar that I have bolted to the ceiling and put the cardboard box in front it. That ended up working well! At the end I've found pellets stuck everywhere, in the blanket, in the box, and eventually in the target. I even managed to hit a bulls eye twice and quite a few times close to the bulls eye... yay! So you are right I definitely caught an air gun fever!

[leila]

Now look what you did, Lizzie.   


Leila, welcome to the GTA.  I just want to add that you can legally have any speed .177 cal in IL, (yes, over 700fps is fine) just not a .22 without a FOID card here in IL. Easy enough to get, just 12 bucks and 30 days time to process.  It sounds like you're leaning towards the lower power rifles, and I see Lizzie and others have steered you in the right direction.  Nice find with that 1377, and the Benjamin looks great!   

We'll be looking forward to your posts on how well it goes, and these guys and gals are a wealth of information here, as you know by now.   


Stephen

Thank you!
Yep, it's all Lizzies fault, when she invited me here she 'must've forgot' to mention that this air gunning business is highly addictive... jk I think FOID card is in my near future, sounds easy so I might as well have it. I've also looked into shooting ranges and it looks like there are seven of them near where I live, I'll have to look into them on Monday!

[althawk]

Secret for a quiet pellet trap and at least for me has made collecting used pellets very easy.

Duct Seal (don't confuse it with duct sealant, found in the plumber's aisle)

Duct seal is used by electricians, so look for it in that aisle at Home Depot, Lowes, Ace hardware...etc.
Duct sealant can work too, but its dries up in about a month, whereas Duct Seal dries at a much slower rate.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100212441/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Basically get a box, but in a square piece of metal/wood that covers the bottom, then lay the bricks of duct seal on top of the metal/wood (10-30 bricks).
Once you start getting more accurate you'll notice a crater of lead pellets in the center. Either smack another brick on the center or press the duct seal back into a level surface.

When I first made my own pellet trap, I went out and got some duct sealant and poured it into an old aluminum pie pan. Which i then placed on top of some 2x4's with duct tape. Didn't take very long for the back of the pie pan to look like a volcano and for the wood to get full of lead.
That wasn't going to work for me so, still using duct sealant, i made another trap.
This time i tried having layers of sealant reinforced with cardboard paper, to thicken the center, and have some metal sheeting in the rear. It held up a lot better, but still after awhile the sealant had started to dry up and I was getting a crater in the center. My options were buy more duct sealant to fill in the crater, or make a new trap.
*Believe this was the trap that was involved in the ricochet that landed near me*

So 3rd time around, went out and got duct seal.
It cost about as much in material costs, but its already out lasted my other pellet traps.
Plus duct seal is much easier to work with (kind of like moist clay).