DAR Gen II is now available

[subscriber]

Thanks for the picture Steve  - inserted below at full size.

The SPA looks svelte compared to the DAR.

While coring out the stock will remove weight, I think my problem with the feel of the DAR is the high center of gravity. That would be improved by sliming down the stock, so that one's hand is nearer the center of gravity of the metal parts.

While the SPA's stock design looks much better here, I think the depth of wood just ahead of the trigger guard is "excessive".  Styling is one thing; ergonomics another. 

To me, the HW50 is just about perfect in feel.  The HW50 is 0.1 lb lighter than the DAR, but somehow feels much lighter in one hand.  This impression goes away when held level and upright with both hands.  I think this has to do with the difference in moment when canted over, by having the metal parts "high" in the DAR, and the moment that has to be resisted when the rifle is held in one hand; non-orthogonal with the center of the earth. 

I noticed this moment when fitting even a small optic to my Marauder pistol.  That it feels a lot more "tippy", rather than heavy.  I don't like that sensation - something that you guys with large scopes probably don't even notice anymore.  You probably just use that sensation as a feature, to ensure you don't cant the rifle







Another PCP that feels great to me is the Stormrider - below.  Its stock is actually reminiscent of both your SPA and the DAR; yet feels svelte.  I think that it is because the stock, while "square" in section is very narrow, with all other dimensions except length of pull combining a solid, yet dainty feel.  Part of that is the Stormrider's 5 lb weight.  It is actually 1/2" longer than the DAR:

[Delmont]

Yeah that would be great and I’ll relay it to him and others who may be interested. 

What is the thread callout by the way?

I have no idea what the threads are, I just take pictures of the end cap with some measurements and e-mail them to him, and he somehow or another makes an adapter that fits!  LOL!  His stuff it really nice! 

Here's his eBay store, I'll let you know if he has extras to post.

Please let him know that there is definite interest in these!  At least one from me.

[Ed24]

Did some quick spring testing after work b4 it got dark. I have found with my .177 cal stock spring I didn't have much of a adjustment range without modifying the stock to allow the adjustment screw to be  backed out and still get the gun and stock back together.  I also noticed with the stock spring and the adjustment screw flush it was shooting at fastest fps. With stock spring and adjustment screw flush with the block at 912fps. 1/2 turn in 910fps, 1 full turn in 910 fps and just getting louder and louder. Stock spring size : 1.88 long,  OD .428, wire .047. I'm using a harbor freight caliper so my not be the most accurate.  Test spring 1,  1.5 long, OD .383, wire .049. Flush 872fps, 1/2 turn in 889, 1 turn in 902, 1.5 turn in 908 and with a 1/2 turn out from flush 845fps. Test spring 2,  this spring came at 2" long but I cut down to 1.58 long,  OD .41, wire .050 set to flush 846fps, 1/2 turn in 870, 1 turn in 885, 1.5 turn gun would not cock.  Test spring 3, Spring cut to 1.58 long,  OD .447, wire .048 Flush 860fps, 1/2 turn in 870, 1 turn in 888, 1.5 turn in 895, 2 turns in 902. At 1/2 turn out from flush 805 fps. I'm trying to find a spring that will give me a wider adjustment range for tuning up or down without getting into the reg at this point. I also didn't want to cut the stock spring so I can always go back to original if I want.  Didn't get a chance to shoot any string yet, maybe this weekend if I get time but so far so good!!!   

[Dan H]

Yeah that would be great and I’ll relay it to him and others who may be interested. 

What is the thread callout by the way?

I have no idea what the threads are, I just take pictures of the end cap with some measurements and e-mail them to him, and he somehow or another makes an adapter that fits!  LOL!  His stuff it really nice! 

Here's his eBay store, I'll let you know if he has extras to post.

https://www.ebay.com/str/agcustompartsandaccesories

He's making me one for the Pishtov RAS-01 now, that thing has a really odd sized threaded barrel inside the shroud, so it will probably be a really custom piece!

My .22 DAR is not very loud at all , the .25 makes a decent pop but not horrible or maybe its just me because I don't have to worry about noise on our property so I don't think about it so much-  unlike the XP Ranger .45  squeezing off at 4300 psi it sounds like 1 of the guns from Naverone going off....  , I use caldwell electronic ear protection sound canceling ear protection for fire arms on that 1 ... 

[subscriber]

Excellent info, Edward.  I presume these velocities were also with 10.5 grain pellets?

I ordered two springs in haste before sunrise .  Now that I have them in hand and I am thinking more clearly, I notice that the hammer recess will take a spring up to just over 12 mm in diameter.   The cap measures 13 mm at its spring seat diameter. This should open up the range of possibilities, and be more stable than smaller OD compression springs used to bring the spring rate up.

By my measurements, the optimal relaxed spring length, for a full range of velocity adjustability is 33 mm or 1.3".  I want quarter turns on the spring cap to provide meaningful velocity adjustment.  This will require a shorter spring with a higher rate.  You will move towards achieving this with the springs you have, if you cut them to 1.3".

Now, you could use an even shorter spring around 1.25", if you don't mind the cap floating at the low end of the velocity scale.  Somehow, I want the cap not to slap back on its threads, every time I cock the hammer, so 1.30" seems to be a good value, that would let you turn out the cap by 1.5 turns from flush and still get the action back into the stock.

I need to pump my DAR back up before exploring velocity in a meaningful way.  My first candidate will be a 1.25" long spring with the same OD and wire diameter as stock:  https://www.mcmaster.com/9657K689/  It takes about 3/4 turns from flush to just take up the slack on the spring.

Then, I also have a 1.5" long spring with an OD of .42 and a 0.042" wire diameter:  https://www.mcmaster.com/9434K89/ .  At this point, I think any spring with a lower than stock rate is moving the wrong way, so my money is on the short one for combining a low velocity range with a steep adjustment response.  The softer spring may get me closer to the velocity I want, but not the range of velocity adjustment.  Not unless I stretch it to a relaxed length of 1.3"...

To match the maximum bolt travel the mechanism allows (without the spring in place), the spring must not go solid before 15.3 mm of travel.  The sear actually latches before this at 12 mm of spring compression, but I would never want to cut it that fine.  Perhaps 13 mm of cocking travel before coil bind would be a real functional minimum, assuming this is not dependent on trigger adjustment, or some other expected variation.

[RDB]

What screw to degas guys?

To use degassing screw:

Take stock off.  There is one bolt in front of trigger guard.  Degassing screw is on underside of air tube; just ahead of receiver - see image below.

From manual:
Unscrew degassing screw slowly, until air can be heard escaping.  Do not remove completely.  After air venting sound has stopped, turn screw another 1/4 turn counter clockwise to ensure all pressure has vented.

Thank you sir. Had a heck of a time with mine last night. Must have been a Friday build.

[subscriber]

Does anyone know if there is a single shot tray for the DAR2?  I like to single load pellets quite often, and the loading port is a little snug for my fingers.

[subscriber]

Edward,

This spring calculator may help you speed up your spring selection:  https://www.acxesspring.com/spring-calculator.html

Here are stock springs identified by means of the above calculator.  These have more than twice the spring rate of the stock one (12.675 Lbs/In).  Also, they are 1.3" long - what I consider the most versatile length (explained in post above): 

https://www.thespringstore.com/pc059-480-8630-sst-1309-c-n-in.html: Rate (lbs./in.)   30.462
https://www.thespringstore.com/pc055-420-9750-sst-1305-c-n-in.html : Rate (lbs./in.)   30.198

Snag is one has to spend at least $40 at this vendor...

[subscriber]

Tried the 32 mm long spring with the same OD and wire diameter as the stock spring:  https://www.mcmaster.com/9657K689/. 

The spring just makes contact with the cap when the cap is flush with the back of the receiver.

Conclusion:  You might want a spring with at least 24 lb/inch rate.  This one is not stiff enough; except for low power applications...  Very quiet, even at 16.6 FPE.

Muzzle velocity with RWS 9.3 grain Supermag wadcutter:

[Ed24]

Tried the 32 mm long spring with the same OD and wire diameter as the stock spring:  https://www.mcmaster.com/9657K689/. 

The spring just makes contact with the cap when the cap is flush with the back of the receiver.

Conclusion:  You might want a spring with at least 24 lb/inch rate.  This one is not stiff enough; except for low power applications...  Very quiet, even at 16.6 FPE.

Muzzle velocity with RWS 9.3 grain Supermag wadcutter:

Edward,

This spring calculator may help you speed up your spring selection:  https://www.acxesspring.com/spring-calculator.html

Here are stock springs identified by means of the above calculator.  These have more than twice the spring rate of the stock one (12.675 Lbs/In).  Also, they are 1.3" long - what I consider the most versatile length (explained in post above): 

https://www.thespringstore.com/pc059-480-8630-sst-1309-c-n-in.html: Rate (lbs./in.)   30.462
https://www.thespringstore.com/pc055-420-9750-sst-1305-c-n-in.html : Rate (lbs./in.)   30.198

Snag is one has to spend at least $40 at this vendor...

Thanks for all the great info. I'm new to changing out the stock spring on any gun so I really appreciate the info.

[Rat Sniper (AKA: PaulT58)]

For anyone who is interested in getting a ½-20 UNF adapter to add a LDC to their DAR, Stefan asked that you contact him directly.  His e-mail address is:

stefan.cefi.kovacevic@gmail.com

Not knowing the demand, he's willing to make these for those who want one, but doesn't want to make a bunch of them right away.  His adapters are very well made.  They are blued steel, not aluminum, so they are built to last a lifetime.  They may weigh an ounce or 2 more than an aluminum adapter, but there is very little chance of them wearing out, or the threads being damaged or stripped due to cross threading or just day to day abuse.

He's been making these for me for years, his craftsmanship is top notch.  I send him crappy cellphone pictures and measurements of an end cap, and he magically creates an adapter that 9 out of 10 times fits perfectly the first time!  There have been a couple I've received that did not fit for some reason or another, but I just send him more pictures and measurements and he sends me another!  The adapter for the DAR fits mine perfectly, so if there aren't a lot of variances in the DAR manufacturing process, if you get one from Stefan, it will probably fit just as good as mine does! 

[BTair]

received my .25 yesterday evening. Had enough time to clean the barrel, mount a scope, and give it a quick site in before it got dark. Gun feels solid, and my stock is a very dark brown that looks nice. Gun shoulders well, and was hitting 3" metal gong at 40yards offhand consistently until I ran out of daylight. Gun is quiet enough for where I'm shooting. Overall I'm very happy with the gun. My only (minor) complaints so far:

- trigger on mine is really bad, need to try to adjust that today
- yet another size fill probe for my collection (would prefer foster)
- gauge is on the end of the airtube, so you have to look down the muzzle to check pressure
- what the $@#% is a megapascal, and why does the manual tell you how many psi/bar to fill to, but not mention MPa, which is what the gauge displays?

Other than those minor gripes, I'm happy and look forward to testing different pellets this weekend.

[Rat Sniper (AKA: PaulT58)]

My only (minor) complaints so far:

- trigger on mine is really bad, need to try to adjust that today
- yet another size fill probe for my collection (would prefer foster)
- gauge is on the end of the airtube, so you have to look down the muzzle to check pressure
- what the $@#% is a megapascal, and why does the manual tell you how many psi/bar to fill to, but not mention MPa, which is what the gauge displays?

Converting BAR to MPa (megapascal) is pretty simple, just drop the zero!  250BAR = 25 MPa! 

The trigger is somewhat adjustable, but just adding some grease to the contact point from the rear of the trigger assembly will do wonders without having to disassemble the trigger.

I'm not a fan of sticking my head over the barrel to see the gauge either, but that sure seems to be a common practice in the industry.  I remove the magazine, decoct and if possible engage the safety before filling.  It makes me feels a little more comfortable watching the gauge as it fills.  I have found using one of those telescoping exam mires helpful when tuning, I just slip it in front of the gauge to see where I'm at and don't have to move the gun from the rest and I can do this safely while the gun is still in the ready position.

They really do need to settle on a one size fits all fill probe!  I'd rather have just one and a dozen spares than a dozer different sizes!

[BTair]

Does anyone know if there is a single shot tray for the DAR2?  I like to single load pellets quite often, and the loading port is a little snug for my fingers.

I just took a Marauder single shot tray that I had laying around, and using a dremel, I shaved about 1/8" off the front and bottom and it works. As a bonus, it also fits in my Prod, so now I've got a single show tray for both.

[HunterWhite]

I just took a Marauder single shot tray that I had laying around, and using a dremel, I shaved about 1/8" off the front and bottom and it works. As a bonus, it also fits in my Prod, so now I've got a single show tray for both.

Hmmm, has anyone tried a P-Rod tray in a DAR?

Hunter

[Rat Sniper (AKA: PaulT58)]

I have a Prod SST, I just tried it and it doesn’t fit as is. But, if you were to sand off about a 32nd of an inch from the back side, I bet it would! 

[tracker1955]

This reminds me of the difference between Marauder mags and Umarex Gauntlet mags due to the difference in Inches versus mm. The Marauder mags fit my Liberty but are loose, but the Gauntlet mags won't fit the Marauder without sanding slightly, but fit the Liberty fine.

[Madd Hatter]

LOL.... it's the same dam clock that I look at Monday thru Friday waiting for 5:00pm.
It's probably a good idea that they not let me bring airguns to work.

[tracker1955]

The new beauty for me being retired this year is I no longer have to deal with a 5 o: clock world unless I happen to be out and about and hit the traffic.

[smythsg]

+1 Tom, I retired in September and it is hard to keep up with what day of the week it is.