LDCs for PCPs

[mrbulk]

Although I don't have any fancy LDCs to compare for you folks.  I was inspired enough to do some noise recording of some popular airgun that I own.  I know I know...it is impossible to measure dB accurately with a cheap sound meter.  Just think of this as cheap entertaining OK?

Thing around the house.


Some popular airguns.


Some good dB info https://pulsarinstruments.com/en/post/understanding-decibels-decibel-scale-and-noise-measurement-units

Hey Peter thanks for the cool vids, the first one cracked me up 

I can see the quandary we all face trying to compare db readings amongst each other (since there's all these variables involved) but when done in one sitting with one sound meter and the same distances and same average ambient noises, especially through the Same gun, then some valuable comparisons can be drawn. Especially if it is backed up by one's pair of ears also listening along.

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

Donny so you did order the STO? Cool, I am super interested in how that works for you. With everybody buying stuff we should have a meetup and test these things out live!

That would be really cool.  If only the US were a little bit smaller 😂  I really do wish I was a lot closer to a good number of forum members.  I'm in Central NC.  Seems a lot are out in the Midwest or west coast entirely

[Earl]

Real world test - I know there are numerous scientific measurements and criteria regarding sound output, as well as various scholarly interpretations of those same measurements, etc. but I also realized my neighbors were not huddled around their decibel meters nor consulting their scientific sound decibel journals trying to see if my guns were too loud or not.

In fact they likely didn't even know I was shooting unless they heard it loud enough. And that's usually when they start poking their heads out their windows or doors.

So I figured I would just do a simple real world test, where I place the sound meter 10 feet in front and slightly to the side of the muzzle of my test gun today, which in this case was a Kral NP-03 that just came in. It has a power adjustment dial like on my Akela, and I had it set at 3/4 of the way up toward full power.

The shooting lane I set up is flanked on one side by a long brick wall and the other, the house itself with cement stucco finish which hopefully provided for similar sound reflection patterns from either side. All shots made from same benched position shown in photos, at a target 75 feet away (barely visible at top left of long photo shot). Target was rubber mulch filled and made no detectable noise from back where I was.

I used JSB 18.13gr pellets for each shot traveling at an average of 750 fps.

My left side neighbor's A/C unit behind that wall was running the whole time (it was 104 degrees out) so no other ambient noises (if any) were obvious nor picked up by the sound meter, which also meant there were no other variations in detectable ambient sound levels due to the A/C's continual background noise. All in all the testing conditions for each LDC were as equivalent as I could make them.

I did not test for POI shift or accuracy or fps, just what decibel level of sound a neighbor might hear if they were just standing around outside.

Several of the LDCs were not testable (they either had proprietary threads or I had no proper adapter for the Kral, etc.) so here are the six that I Could test, in order of loudness, average db of three shots each:

Bare barrel 107.0 db (one shot only, too LOUD!)

ZeroDB        97.7 db

Geo ebay     97.6 db

Rocker1       93.2 db

Sumo          85.8 db

Tanto          85.5 db

HUMA         80.5 db

To be honest most of the LDCs sounded about the same to my ear (of course I was sitting right next to the gun as it was fired) and yet - the Huma was OBVIOUSLY quieter. Even from where I was sitting (yes Donny, you may have been right about the Huma all along)...and funny how the Tanto was actually quieter than its Sumo big brother.

So that's that. And that's all I have, interpret this as you will!

I will do more of this whenever I can afford to acquire more LDCs, since I purchase mine with personal funds to quell any perceptions of, or allusions to any favoritism towards donated products.

What is the diameter and length of each one?
What is the cost of each one?

[JungleShooter]

What is the diameter and length of each one?
What is the cost of each one?

Here you go...!      


This is the first version of a Silencer Specs Table....
Still missing quite a few models, but it's coming.
I'm grateful for links to other silencer models -- and TESTS! 


The specs table gives you:
● Price, with link to seller/ store
● Connectors available 
● Calibers available
● Length
● Weight
● Diameter
● Basic looks (plain, or carbon fiber plane, or decorative indentations and cutouts
● Focus is on PCPs


At the end of the specs table you get:
● Links to custom made silencers
● Loudness comparison test background data
● Links to sellers and prices
● The section with the photos I had to make into a separate file, it was too large for GTA....


Happy silencer shopping!!      
If there is one thing I learned at GTA it's this -- to be an ENABLER!!     
Matthias




Attachments: 
FIRST:  Silencer Specs TableSECOND:  Silencer PICs

[Warburrito]

You rock JungleShooter!

[mrbulk]

What is the diameter and length of each one?
What is the cost of each one?

Here you go...!      


This is the first version of a Silencer Specs Table....
Still missing quite a few models, but it's coming.
I'm grateful for links to other silencer models -- and TESTS! 


The specs table gives you:
● Price, with link to seller/ store
● Connectors available 
● Calibers available
● Length
● Weight
● Diameter
● Basic looks (plain, or carbon fiber plane, or decorative indentations and cutouts
● Focus is on PCPs


At the end of the specs table you get:
● Links to custom made silencers
● Loudness comparison test background data
● Links to sellers and prices
● The section with the photos I had to make into a separate file, it was too large for GTA....


Happy silencer shopping!!      
If there is one thing I learned at GTA it's this -- to be an ENABLER!!     
Matthias




Attachments: 
FIRST:  Silencer Specs TableSECOND:  Silencer PICs

Matthias, you ROCK bro! Thanks for the terrific references! Group effort!!!

[Earl]

What is the diameter and length of each one?
What is the cost of each one?

Here you go...!      


This is the first version of a Silencer Specs Table....
Still missing quite a few models, but it's coming.
I'm grateful for links to other silencer models -- and TESTS! 


The specs table gives you:
● Price, with link to seller/ store
● Connectors available 
● Calibers available
● Length
● Weight
● Diameter
● Basic looks (plain, or carbon fiber plane, or decorative indentations and cutouts
● Focus is on PCPs


At the end of the specs table you get:
● Links to custom made silencers
● Loudness comparison test background data
● Links to sellers and prices
● The section with the photos I had to make into a separate file, it was too large for GTA....


Happy silencer shopping!!      
If there is one thing I learned at GTA it's this -- to be an ENABLER!!     
Matthias




Attachments: 
FIRST:  Silencer Specs TableSECOND:  Silencer PICs

WOW !!!
Thank you VERY much Matthias!

[Rallyshark]

I got the shipping notification, and my high flow Falx from STO should show up Monday.  I will let you guys know what I think when I get my paws on it 

[mrbulk]

I got the shipping notification, and my high flow Falx from STO should show up Monday.  I will let you guys know what I think when I get my paws on it 

  (where's the *eating popcorn* smiley?)

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

I got the shipping notification, and my high flow Falx from STO should show up Monday.  I will let you guys know what I think when I get my paws on it 

  (where's the *eating popcorn* smiley?)

😮🍿   I'm there with you, lol

[mrbulk]

I got the shipping notification, and my high flow Falx from STO should show up Monday.  I will let you guys know what I think when I get my paws on it 

  (where's the *eating popcorn* smiley?)

😮🍿   I'm there with you, lol

Hey Dallas how'd you do that?  ;

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

I got the shipping notification, and my high flow Falx from STO should show up Monday.  I will let you guys know what I think when I get my paws on it 

  (where's the *eating popcorn* smiley?)

😮🍿   I'm there with you, lol

Hey Dallas how'd you do that?  ;

Believe it or not, my phone had the popcorn in the first slot for predicted emojis, simply because you used the word!  It's an andriod, sony phone, but I'm assuming any android would do that.

[Rallyshark]

I got a surprise in the mail today!  The STO Falx showed up earlier than expected   I put some pictures below to show how it looks beside the other two LDCs that I use on my higher powered guns.  I also threw one in there of the packaging, which was nice, and came with a card and STO sticker.  It is basically 1.6 inches in diameter and 6.5" long.  It seems to be very well made and robust.  I suspect it is a little larger and sturdier than the low and moderate flow versions.  I didn't pull it apart, but I did take the end cap off and peek inside.  It seems to be very well designed for sure. 

Okay to the testing...  My testing was by no means very scientific, but it is what I could do today.  Also, I did this testing indoors into my rubber mulch filled pellet trap, so not the best for testing LDCs.  Both guns I tested it on use the LDC for all the of the sound reduction, as there are no shrouds to take up any of the air flow.  First, I tried on the .22 tuned for 56-57 fpe shooting slugs.  The long Huma lives on that gun.  The results were very close!  The Huma won, but not buy much.  The STO wasn't much louder at all, but was a bit sharper in the report.  In that case I prefer the Huma.  The fact that it is even close is kind of amazing, given the size of the Huma. 

Next, I swapped out the NC on my 34 fpe .177 slug shooter.  The difference between the NC and the STO was much more obvious on this gun.  It wasn't so much a difference in loudness as it was a difference in tone.  Yes the NC was a little quieter, but the STO had a much lower tone to it.  I do still prefer the NC on that gun, but that isn't a knock on the STO.  I think performed very well considering, again, it was the smaller of the LDCs I tested. 

Keep in mind, this was all by ear, and there were no measurements involved, AND this was indoors.  I think the biggest difference I was noticing was a little bit of air "whoosh" after the shot.  The STO works by slowing the air exit from the LDC, and not so much by sound deadening.  It is a very different design from a conventional LDC.  I also wonder if it would fair better on a higher powered gun.  I say that, because both of the guns I tested it on fall dead in between STO's
recommendations of moderate and high flow versions.  This is a small LDC to be dealing with the air volume these guns are pushing out, considering these are slug shooting small bores that are both shooting over 1000 fps.  The results would likely be very different on a shrouded gun, in a good way. 

In conclusion, I have to give the STO a strong 9 out of 10.  I am comparing it to two of the best LDCs out there, both of which have more volume than the STO does.  I think that speaks for itself.  If I had compared it to a very similarly sized Sumo, it wouldn't have been remotely close.  The STO would have won easily.  Oh, the high flow version of the Falx only costs $134.  I have to wonder what the results would have been on my .22 with the larger Sarissa from STO, since it is very close in size to my long Huma. 

The testing isn't over though.  Tomorrow, I plan to go shooting with some local friends that often shoot with.  I intend to get them to test out the Falx on their various guns too!  Many of which are .25 and .30 making a lot more power.  These LDCs aren't caliber specific like many, and can handle up to a .30.  If the right folks show up, it may be tested against some very high dollar LDCs.  I look forward to reporting on that, and a retesting of my guns outdoors.  More to come  

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

😮🍿 More popcorn eating commences, haha.  That's some awesome results!  I've been tempted to get a falx or sarissa, but cant decide.  That and I cant ever quit turning the power up and down on any of my guns.  I did have a very small STO moderator at one time.  It was bonded polymer and carbon fibre.  Extremely light.  I managed to break it.  The bonding came loose when I torqued it on or off a barrel.  Can't recall which.  I think I had dropped it at least once prior, and my dog had chewed on it as well   

I wasnt impressed with it other than the lightness.   But I also did not have a gun with enough airflow at the time to really get it working, I dont think.  All I had was a 1322 with MAX of 15fpe    It was also a compact model.  A good sight smaller than the falx.  The Dampening material (some type of dense sheet foam, that did not *seem to be porous)  did not seem to do nearly as good as the thick felt in some others moderators.

Eager to see how yours does on the other guns    That is a mighty large 40mm huma, too 

I read the falx is supposed to be easily serviceable, and upgradeable (in the future), as well?   Sounds pretty cool.

[Rallyshark]

I was tempted to pull the core out and have a look, but I decided to wait until it got tested some more.  These ones are aluminum, as are the end caps, so no worries about over tightening(within reason).  I suppose it would matter more if you got the composite end caps to save 22 grams.  I scoff at that, I need metal    It does seem pretty well built, and I don't see it breaking easily. 

I think there is something to having enough power to make them work to their full potential, which is why they're available in 3 flavors.  It did a better job comparatively speaking on the .22, considering the size.  The guys I shoot with often bring some pretty high powered guns in the .25 and .30 range, so we'll see what it can really do I expect   I don't know if he's coming tomorrow, but one of the guys has a daystate .25 shooting around 60 fpe with a Ramus Trident.  That will be an excellent LDC to compare it to right there!   I never know which guns they are bringing, until they show up though.  It could be anything from pretty much any air gun maker out there,lol.  Those guys have some pretty awesome collections. 

If the Falx is any indicator so far, I'm betting that Sarissa would VERY quiet on some heavy breathing air guns... 

[mrbulk]

I got a surprise in the mail today!  The STO Falx showed up earlier than expected   I put some pictures below to show how it looks beside the other two LDCs that I use on my higher powered guns.  I also threw one in there of the packaging, which was nice, and came with a card and STO sticker.  It is basically 1.6 inches in diameter and 6.5" long.  It seems to be very well made and robust.  I suspect it is a little larger and sturdier than the low and moderate flow versions.  I didn't pull it apart, but I did take the end cap off and peek inside.  It seems to be very well designed for sure. 

Okay to the testing...  My testing was by no means very scientific, but it is what I could do today.  Also, I did this testing indoors into my rubber mulch filled pellet trap, so not the best for testing LDCs.  Both guns I tested it on use the LDC for all the of the sound reduction, as there are no shrouds to take up any of the air flow.  First, I tried on the .22 tuned for 56-57 fpe shooting slugs.  The long Huma lives on that gun.  The results were very close!  The Huma won, but not buy much.  The STO wasn't much louder at all, but was a bit sharper in the report.  In that case I prefer the Huma.  The fact that it is even close is kind of amazing, given the size of the Huma. 

Next, I swapped out the NC on my 34 fpe .177 slug shooter.  The difference between the NC and the STO was much more obvious on this gun.  It wasn't so much a difference in loudness as it was a difference in tone.  Yes the NC was a little quieter, but the STO had a much lower tone to it.  I do still prefer the NC on that gun, but that isn't a knock on the STO.  I think performed very well considering, again, it was the smaller of the LDCs I tested. 

Keep in mind, this was all by ear, and there were no measurements involved, AND this was indoors.  I think the biggest difference I was noticing was a little bit of air "whoosh" after the shot.  The STO works by slowing the air exit from the LDC, and not so much by sound deadening.  It is a very different design from a conventional LDC.  I also wonder if it would fair better on a higher powered gun.  I say that, because both of the guns I tested it on fall dead in between STO's
recommendations of moderate and high flow versions.  This is a small LDC to be dealing with the air volume these guns are pushing out, considering these are slug shooting small bores that are both shooting over 1000 fps.  The results would likely be very different on a shrouded gun, in a good way. 

In conclusion, I have to give the STO a strong 9 out of 10.  I am comparing it to two of the best LDCs out there, both of which have more volume than the STO does.  I think that speaks for itself.  If I had compared it to a very similarly sized Sumo, it wouldn't have been remotely close.  The STO would have won easily.  Oh, the high flow version of the Falx only costs $134.  I have to wonder what the results would have been on my .22 with the larger Sarissa from STO, since it is very close in size to my long Huma. 

The testing isn't over though.  Tomorrow, I plan to go shooting with some local friends that often shoot with.  I intend to get them to test out the Falx on their various guns too!  Many of which are .25 and .30 making a lot more power.  These LDCs aren't caliber specific like many, and can handle up to a .30.  If the right folks show up, it may be tested against some very high dollar LDCs.  I look forward to reporting on that, and a retesting of my guns outdoors.  More to come

Aww man I'm jealous. And very interesting report Donny, plus it came surprisingly quick.

Hey I should be getting a TKO and a Weihrauch (which shipped today but it's coming all the way from Poland) so maybe I'll have a report for you guys soon.

[mrbulk]

Dallas going by your description it sounds like you have a prior STO model and they have since changed their design or build process?

By the way I found out how to do the popcorn thing on phone, but I just can't do it from computer...

[mrbulk]

Donny BTW the comment about opening it up to take a look is so compelling, especially if their design is best put into action by higher power. To me that could mean no fragile internals like hair curlers or felt, just a solid monocore machined form metal or delrin, perhaps?

Inquiring minds want to know - when you're ready that is 

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

Well, Donny, I cant say the design was too dissimilar from other moderators I have, and have no issues with.  These had an option for metal threads     At any rate, the new ones do look very sturdy.  But I am also very curious to see the core.  From the sound of it you could request to buy a different type of core, and just swap them out.... ?  The product description implies that, anyhow.

It sounds like it'll be a good shoot either way as long as the weather is good.    Here's hoping it will, and a suitable challenger for the falx will show up!

Dallas going by your description it sounds like you have a prior STO model and they have since changed their design or build process?

By the way I found out how to do the popcorn thing on phone, but I just can't do it from computer...

I copied and pasted it from my old post to do it on my computer    I still have no idea either. 

Yes, the one I had was a shorter version of the first one STO sold.

[Rallyshark]

Guys, I kinda failed at giving the STO a full and proper testing, like I had planned.  We had a new guy shooting with us today, so a lot of time was spent helping him get his gun dialed it.  I really wanted to test it on his gun(Daystate Renegade at 60 fpe), but we didn't need to introduce any new variables there,lol.  I also go distracted shooting stuff at very long range .  I did get to stick the STO on a .30 Bully that was shooting about 96 fpe though.  It lowered the report of that monster pretty good considering the size of the Falx.  It went from annoyingly loud to very tolerable, and the Bully didn't blow it up at least.  I wouldn't have called it back yard friendly though.  It would take a lot more LDC to make that gun back yard friendly.  I also slapped it on a BT 65, and all you could hear was hammer slap on that gun. 

I think my initial impressions still stand.  That is, it may be one of the best LDCs out there for it's size.  Given the price and build, I'd say it is in the top tier for sure.  I'll try and pull the core out in the next day or two to give you guys a look.  Normally, I wouldn't want to do that, because it could reveal "trade secrets".  In the case of STO, I don't think that would be an issue, since they clearly show all the differences between the designs and the theory behind them on their site/blog posts.